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Gonzo McFee posted:It was only for England, excluding Liverpool because even they know not to do that. I'm in London. Mind you it's just plopped through the door 3 hours after the rest of the post so maybe someones boss found out.
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Jun 13, 2014 14:50
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HortonNash posted:Who gives a poo poo what he looks like? Because the head of state's main job these days is international negotiation, rather than personally passing bills etc? Milliband has the charisma of an orc with none of the action appeal. On the other hand, as much as you might dislike Cameron, 'Posh public school boy' isn't unexpected for the rest of the world.
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Jun 13, 2014 14:53
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Elfface posted:Because the head of state's main job these days is international negotiation, rather than personally passing bills etc? But David Cameron is also completely lacking in charisma, he's a lizard in human skin and he's not very good at hiding it.
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Jun 13, 2014 14:59
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HortonNash posted:Who gives a poo poo what he looks like? Rather than blindly reacting to what I said, you might have wanted to realise I was talking about Farage and his stupid laugh-grimace-expression, not Milliband.
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Jun 13, 2014 15:07
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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:If he does it, the people of Liverpool rightly yell at him, if he doesn't "RED ED REFUSES TO BACK ARE BOYS IN BRAZIL" He could have just been pictured watching England play football like a normal human being. Or collecting football stickers because he seems like the sort.
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Jun 13, 2014 15:15
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Cameron has PR charisma where if he has total control over the situation and can plan ahead he has some charisma so whenever things are not under his control he leaves and hides Milliband has no charisma
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Jun 13, 2014 15:16
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I guess it's about perspective, I think Miliband has more charisma than Cameron because he actually comes across as a human being with some thoughts in his head. Cameron is more like a preview of the animatronic staff of some future hotel. Every single time he opens his mouth it's an embarrassing reminder that a mini baby bel could lead one of the wealthiest and most powerful nations if it had the right background. That picture's embarrassing because Miliband looks completely uncomfortable with what he's doing. Which feels like his problem a lot of the time - positioning himself inside ideas that he doesn't seem to believe, that other people have decided are a good idea, and he has trouble owning them and smoothly feigning sincerity. It comes across as wooden and forced, whereas budget replicants like Call Me Dave can pull a string and deliver a flat, vacuous statement that's completely devoid of any personal connection or content, and nobody cares because the delivery is adequately performed. Like the shittiest play, acted competently
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Jun 13, 2014 15:16
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The last two politicians we had described as charismatic were Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg. Charisma is a dangerous thing.
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Jun 13, 2014 15:39
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SybilVimes posted:Rather than blindly reacting to what I said, you might have wanted to realise I was talking about Farage and his stupid laugh-grimace-expression, not Milliband. The same goes for Farage though, and Pickles and Gove. The childish, Have I Got News For You, style poking fun at people's appearance is getting tiresome and hides the real issues (that Farage, Gove, Pickles are total shits because of what they believe and what they do). I wasn't actually having a go at you either. E:Fairly certain that if Clement Attlee was running today, they'd be ridiculing his hair, his moustache and his teeth. HortonNash fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jun 13, 2014 |
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Jun 13, 2014 15:44
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Gonzo McFee posted:The last two politicians we had described as charismatic were Nigel Farage and Nick Clegg. You know who else was charasmatic? That nice Austrian fellow with the moustache, forget his name...whatever happened to him?
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Jun 13, 2014 15:47
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He's in Brazil watching the world cup
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Jun 13, 2014 15:58
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When we were learning about the Suffragettes in History I remember the text book had a political cartoon against women's right to vote that argued that they would only vote for the most attractive candidate and not care about their policies because women are stupid and superficial. I'm always reminded of it whenever people talk about a politician not being charismatic enough.
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Jun 13, 2014 16:00
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HortonNash posted:You know who else was charasmatic? That nice Austrian fellow with the moustache, forget his name...whatever happened to him? This joke. But with a Blair analogy.
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Jun 13, 2014 16:05
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HortonNash posted:You know who else was charasmatic? That nice Austrian fellow with the moustache, forget his name...whatever happened to him? He had a long film career and ended up being the Governor of California.
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Jun 13, 2014 16:31
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ufarn posted:David Axelrod's got his work cut out for him. It's quite something when your candidate is so bad that guiding him to victory is probably going to be harder than getting a black dude elected President of the USA.
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Jun 13, 2014 16:37
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Serene Dragon posted:Lack of charisma is different from being attractive. You can be very charismatic without being handsome. Though I agree that having charisma is definitely one of the biggest advantages for a politician, and Ed seriously has none. Case in point: Churchill. Extremely charismatic man, with a face like a slapped arse.
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Jun 13, 2014 16:39
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Ddraig posted:Case in point: Churchill. Extremely charismatic man, with a face like a slapped arse.
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Jun 13, 2014 16:51
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Seaside Loafer posted:Wasnt he also a 'functional' alcholic and a gambler? Id still prefer him to davebot. Also pro-eugenics and a right bastard to the Indians.
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Jun 13, 2014 16:58
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Darth Walrus posted:Also pro-eugenics and a right bastard to the Indians. If by right bastard you mean starved them, then yeah.
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Jun 13, 2014 17:21
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Gonzo McFee posted:If by right bastard you mean starved them, then yeah. And then wisecracked abut how their situation couldn't be so bad because Gandhi wasn't dead yet.
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Jun 13, 2014 17:25
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And used gas attacks on Iraq.
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Jun 13, 2014 17:27
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I think Churchill's biggest problem with Hitler was that he wasn't British. Also, looks like this Sun thing won't go away for Red Top Ed. http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-labour-councillor-martin-cummins-7266443 quote:A Liverpool Labour councillor has resigned from the party in protest at Ed Miliband’s support for The Sun newspaper.
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Jun 13, 2014 17:29
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Apparently Churchill suffered massive anxiety over public speaking so pretty much every single remark he ever made (even the ones that seem off the cuff) were thought up in advance and rehearsed meticulously. Might explain his apparently amazing wit. How he never got caught out I'll never know.
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Jun 13, 2014 17:33
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Gonzo McFee posted:I think Churchill's biggest problem with Hitler was that he wasn't British. Good for him but lol quote:We are the the party of truth, justice and equality and we must stop compromising on our moral foundation just to win votes. where has he been the last decade?
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Jun 13, 2014 17:43
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Can someone who knows something about international football tell me something? I know little about football, dont support a team but ive some time on my hands atm so ive watched the first 2 world cup games. So far out of the 2 games; and this seems to happen every time i bother to watch football, there have been a number of game changing errors by the referee. In the current game (on now) a goal that clearly was a legal goal was disallowed, in the last one a bullshit penalty. What the gently caress? A sport is supposed to have rules isnt it? What is the problem with having some cams to allow the ref to make the correct decsion. I think we have the technology.
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Jun 13, 2014 18:02
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It's FIFA politics. The guys in charge don't like the idea of introducing new stuff: UEFA tried goaline referees a few years back and that's about it. The referees organisation has also resisted changes they think could undermine their position/credibility. What this means is that they're relying on their eyes and can't resort to video evidence even if it's being played on a big screen in the stadium.
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Jun 13, 2014 18:08
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baka kaba posted:I guess it's about perspective, I think Miliband has more charisma than Cameron because he actually comes across as a human being with some thoughts in his head. Cameron is more like a preview of the animatronic staff of some future hotel. Every single time he opens his mouth it's an embarrassing reminder that a mini baby bel could lead one of the wealthiest and most powerful nations if it had the right background. That might possibly be true if he's talking off-the-cuff, but every actual interview I've seen with him he comes across like an android with an extra goto 10 command. That "These strikes are wrong..." thing wasn't a one-off, he does it in almost every interview, just endlessly parrots whatever lines it is his handlers have told him tests well, and every time there's a follow-on question he goes straight back to that line. I mean I know it's a tendency for all politicians these days to do this but Milliband really turns it up to 11. It's a big factor in Farage's personal popularity too (and Clegg's before that) because they do actually seem to be functioning human beings.
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Jun 13, 2014 18:08
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Seaside Loafer posted:Can someone who knows something about international football tell me something? I know little about football, dont support a team but ive some time on my hands atm so ive watched the first 2 world cup games. So far out of the 2 games; and this seems to happen every time i bother to watch football, there have been a number of game changing errors by the referee. In the current game (on now) a goal that clearly was a legal goal was disallowed, in the last one a bullshit penalty. What the gently caress? A sport is supposed to have rules isnt it? What is the problem with having some cams to allow the ref to make the correct decsion. I think we have the technology. One of the arguments against using technology is the desire to maintain equivalence amongst all levels of the game, so the game changes little (in how rules are applied or how it is refereed) from Sunday league through to international level matches. Another is the worry that allowing technology will disrupt the flow of the game as play needs to stop for reviewing replays, and this could be used to waste time or manipulate the clock by excessive calls for review. Another argument is that it diminishes the authority of the referee, if replays are available it encourages referees decisions to be second guessed and called into question on the pitch by players. Personally, I think bad calls, whilst extremely frustrating, are part of the game, and the fact that nothing much changes between the various levels of the game is more important.
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Jun 13, 2014 18:18
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That might possibly be true if he's talking off-the-cuff, but every actual interview I've seen with him he comes across like an android with an extra goto 10 command. That "These strikes are wrong..." thing wasn't a one-off, he does it in almost every interview, just endlessly parrots whatever lines it is his handlers have told him tests well, and every time there's a follow-on question he goes straight back to that line. I think the current strategy is based around Labour feeling pretty confident about the next election, so the safest thing for Miliband to do is be as uninspiring and boring as possible so nobody pays much attention to him.
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Jun 13, 2014 18:18
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Wasn't Churchill a sexist and racist arsehole? My wife takes great delight in telling everybody that. Is that fair?
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Jun 13, 2014 18:20
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Seaside Loafer posted:Can someone who knows something about international football tell me something? I know little about football, dont support a team but ive some time on my hands atm so ive watched the first 2 world cup games. So far out of the 2 games; and this seems to happen every time i bother to watch football, there have been a number of game changing errors by the referee. In the current game (on now) a goal that clearly was a legal goal was disallowed, in the last one a bullshit penalty. What the gently caress? A sport is supposed to have rules isnt it? What is the problem with having some cams to allow the ref to make the correct decsion. I think we have the technology. Take it to the Ray Parlour, they can answer more in depth, but the short answer is tradition and wanting the game to flow properly without introductions. I feel your pain though, Neymar blatantly dove, and the Croats had an equalizer disallowed that was perfectly valid. Bah.
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Jun 13, 2014 18:21
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thehustler posted:Wasn't Churchill a sexist and racist arsehole? My wife takes great delight in telling everybody that. Is that fair? Wasn't every politician of the day? E:Didn't Gandhi have quite a bit of hate for black people and the gays? HortonNash fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Jun 13, 2014 |
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Jun 13, 2014 18:22
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HortonNash posted:One of the arguments against using technology is the desire to maintain equivalence amongst all levels of the game, so the game changes little (in how rules are applied or how it is refereed) from Sunday league through to international level matches. Another is the worry that allowing technology will disrupt the flow of the game as play needs to stop for reviewing replays, and this could be used to waste time or manipulate the clock by excessive calls for review. Another argument is that it diminishes the authority of the referee, if replays are available it encourages referees decisions to be second guessed and called into question on the pitch by players. Anyway, I dont really care, just curious. Btw I overheard there was some proposal to allow a team 3 challenges to be reviewed per game or something, why they couldnt just do every one right is beyond me me but ok.
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Jun 13, 2014 18:30
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HortonNash posted:Wasn't every politician of the day? I have definitely heard that. Probably down to his religious beliefs? I have no idea.
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Jun 13, 2014 18:31
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That might possibly be true if he's talking off-the-cuff, but every actual interview I've seen with him he comes across like an android with an extra goto 10 command. That "These strikes are wrong..." thing wasn't a one-off, he does it in almost every interview, just endlessly parrots whatever lines it is his handlers have told him tests well, and every time there's a follow-on question he goes straight back to that line. It's like Axelrod is running a campaign for Romney this time around.
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Jun 13, 2014 18:32
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That might possibly be true if he's talking off-the-cuff, but every actual interview I've seen with him he comes across like an android with an extra goto 10 command. That "These strikes are wrong..." thing wasn't a one-off, he does it in almost every interview, just endlessly parrots whatever lines it is his handlers have told him tests well, and every time there's a follow-on question he goes straight back to that line. He's obviously got some general awkwardness about him, but I'm friends with someone who sort-of knows him (enough to have informal 'off-duty' conversations with him) and they say he's a very intelligent man with actual opinions and convictions. It seems he's got a certain amount of camera shyness as well as the fact that he's clearly being told he has to follow a very fine line to have any chance of getting elected and it's not that close to his actual opinions. We can bemoan his 'badness' as a candidate, but the rest of them would've done the same less awkwardly, but is that worth it to be left with a genuine Blairite like David? I'd rather have a hopeless campaigner and good PM than the converse (of course if he does the same in office as he has the last 4 years then gently caress Labour, gently caress politics and gently caress everything).
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Jun 13, 2014 18:52
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That might possibly be true if he's talking off-the-cuff, but every actual interview I've seen with him he comes across like an android with an extra goto 10 command. That "These strikes are wrong..." thing wasn't a one-off, he does it in almost every interview, just endlessly parrots whatever lines it is his handlers have told him tests well, and every time there's a follow-on question he goes straight back to that line. That's sort of what I mean though - he doesn't come across as comfortable doing it. Things like the strikes video make you cringe to watch them, because he's obviously desperate to keep on message, but he's no good at it. Whereas Cameron does that exact same thing all the time, but people barely notice because he's like a practiced salesman, smoothly delivering his patter. So for me that makes Miliband seem much more human, because he's trying to play the game and failing at it spectacularly. But if the game is the game, he's going to do badly - I just wish he'd break away from it, because he's not going to beat Cameron on robotic, content-free soundbite delivery, and that poo poo is something that shouldn't fly as it is. As far as the pub test goes, I reckon you could have an interesting talk with Miliband - hell, an actual discussion even. A pint with Cameron would be like socialising with Mr Burns
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Jun 13, 2014 18:55
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Alecto posted:I'd rather have a hopeless campaigner and good PM than the converse
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Jun 13, 2014 19:00
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In that regard it's a wonder Labour haven't deconstructed the overly-PR campaigning that both they and the Tories have been driven by since the 80/90s. Certainly works well for UKIP and the race to the middle ground has driven voters away in droves. Ed should be frank, and speak to people directly rather than in sound bites. From what I've seen and heard he is a good orator when he's talking to people as humans, and not from a script.
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Jun 13, 2014 19:11
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My Sun arrived today No crossword Motherfuckers
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Jun 13, 2014 19:14
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