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Evil Badman posted:Was chatting with a friend about him. I *think* you can cast Captain turn 3, attack on 4 using him to cheat in Brimaz, but I don't know if Brimaz would then create an attacking token in that instance or not. You don't get a token. "When ~ attacks" is equivalent to "when you declare ~ as an attacker in your Declare Attackers step", which doesn't happen if he's put into play already attacking.
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Jun 26, 2014 20:56
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Evil Badman posted:Was chatting with a friend about him. I *think* you can cast Captain turn 3, attack on 4 using him to cheat in Brimaz, but I don't know if Brimaz would then create an attacking token in that instance or not. No, because he never takes the action "attacks" he simply has the trait "is attacking"
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Jun 26, 2014 21:00
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Fair enough, it's still a decent turn to do that and still have 4 mana up for second main.
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Jun 26, 2014 21:05
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Evil Badman posted:Fair enough, it's still a decent turn to do that and still have 4 mana up for second main. Best pre-rotation choice to cheat in is probably Lavinia just because it prevents your opponent from blocking with anything turn 4 (unless they somehow Nykthos'd out a high cost dude). Best post-rotation choice so far is probably Dawnbringer Charioteers. Edit: Honorable mentions go to Fabled Hero, Brimaz, and Skyspear Calvary. AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Jun 26, 2014 |
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Jun 26, 2014 21:10
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Evil Badman posted:Was chatting with a friend about him. I *think* you can cast Captain turn 3, attack on 4 using him to cheat in Brimaz, but I don't know if Brimaz would then create an attacking token in that instance or not. If somethign is put onto the battlefield attacking, it doesn't trigger any "when this attacks" triggers. You also can't chain Preeminent Captains. I.e. you can attack with Preeminent Captain and use its trigger to put another Preeminent Captain onto the battlefield tapped and attacking, but the second one doesn't have its "when this attacks" trigger trigger.
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Jun 26, 2014 21:10
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Spiderdrake posted:The color pie would be meaningful if it was a robust piece of game theory worked on and then given to a new development team who used it to form a concrete foundation. Yeah. Best part is when people try to use the philosophical angle and pigeonhole people into it like they do with the DND alignment system. I want to see a 5-color person/character version of the 9-alignment batman.
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Jun 26, 2014 21:19
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The color pie is best used as a set of general guidelines rather than a strict set of rules. I like it when we get cards that fall way off the color pie because they're usually flavorful, like Hornet Sting or Harmonize.
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Jun 26, 2014 21:27
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Nibble posted:You don't get a token. "When ~ attacks" is equivalent to "when you declare ~ as an attacker in your Declare Attackers step", which doesn't happen if he's put into play already attacking. Yup. This issue previously had come up when people wanted to know if Brimaz + Boros Elite attacking would trigger battalion.
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Jun 26, 2014 21:35
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I think they actually have a pretty good handle on which colour can do what at this point. When people cite counterexamples for how, no, this color can totally do that, it's almost always a Planar Chaos card or some forgotten jank from 1994. If you look at modern sets, the Hornet Stings are actually few and far between.
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Jun 26, 2014 21:38
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Minority Deport posted:
This is potentially crazy with Young Pyromancer/Murdergoats.
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Jun 26, 2014 21:43
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They should do an entire Block where the entire color pie is off on the Plane. White is Red, Red is Blue, Blue is White, Green is Black, and Black is Green. Would really get people mad but also be fun/interesting and twist up the Eternal Formats. It'd certainly be a flavorful Block/Plane anyway.
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Jun 26, 2014 21:45
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Cernunnos posted:They should do an entire Block where the entire color pie is off on the Plane. This sounds like a good way to Actually Kill Magic.
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Jun 26, 2014 21:48
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Cernunnos posted:They should do an entire Block where the entire color pie is off on the Plane. They consider Planar Chaos a mistake so they will never do this. Also it's a bad idea.
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Jun 26, 2014 21:51
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Cernunnos posted:They should do an entire Block where the entire color pie is off on the Plane. Then after that they can do a block where every colour has the same cards just with different names and mana symbols.
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Jun 26, 2014 21:54
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Entropic posted:Then after that they can do a block where every colour has the same cards just with different names and mana symbols. It's called Shadowmoor
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Jun 26, 2014 21:54
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I guess I'll just return to my hole as the Arbiter of Bad Ideas then. 
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Jun 26, 2014 22:01
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AlternateNu posted:Best pre-rotation choice to cheat in is probably Lavinia just because it prevents your opponent from blocking with anything turn 4 (unless they somehow Nykthos'd out a high cost dude). Lavinia with captain and all the bounce effects. (Quickling, Deputy) to protect captain and to cheat lavinia in for maximum value seems good. Add in Ephara for card advantage and it could be the beginning of a deck.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:01
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Lottery of Babylon posted:It's called Shadowmoor I don't remember Shadowmoor having a big problem with that. There were plenty of hybrid cards, but they obeyed the colour pie pretty well.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:02
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Elyv posted:They consider Planar Chaos a mistake so they will never do this. Aw, Planar Chaos was sweet.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:02
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Time Spiral block was cool as gently caress but had a lot of bad ideas for the game.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:07
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Cernunnos posted:I guess I'll just return to my hole as the Arbiter of Bad Ideas then. Don't worry, I am the president of magical christmas land, so all my idea's get shot down too, don't give up. 
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Jun 26, 2014 22:07
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:I don't remember Shadowmoor having a big problem with that. There were plenty of hybrid cards, but they obeyed the colour pie pretty well. Sorry, just a poor joke about Shadowmoor having a ridiculous number of cycles.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:08
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They did that, and it was called phyrexian mana. People complained a lot about it and it led to poo poo like mental misstep.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:08
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was wrong
jassi007 fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jun 26, 2014 |
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Jun 26, 2014 22:11
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I'm guessing that if they ever bring Phyrexian Mana back, it will be on cards with mana costs like {P/B}{P/B}B instead of 1{P/B}{P/B}.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:12
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C-Euro posted:Aw, Planar Chaos was sweet. Planar chaos is sweet but it confused a lot of people. That said, there definitely some things in Planar Chaos I'd like to see back, in particular red bounce that can only target opponent's stuff, that feels very red to me.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:13
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Sorry, just a poor joke about Shadowmoor having a ridiculous number of cycles. Shadomoor was a perfect example of "moderation is key". Hybrid mana and block-wide cycles are both awesome in small to moderate amounts. When taken to extremes, they both lose the "special" feeling that made them cool in the first place.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:13
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:I don't remember Shadowmoor having a big problem with that. There were plenty of hybrid cards, but they obeyed the colour pie pretty well.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:13
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I always thought going off color-pie was sometimes acceptable if the cost was disproportionately higher, as long as it was like green Wrath of God or something.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:14
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jassi007 posted:Why not? His triggered ability doesn't say "when you declare attackers" it says "whenever Brimaz attacks" He comes into play tapped and attacking, trigger. Should work. Even though he's attacking he never actually "attacks", because attacks means the action of going from not attacking to attacking.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:15
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jassi007 posted:Why not? His triggered ability doesn't say "when you declare attackers" it says "whenever Brimaz attacks" He comes into play tapped and attacking, trigger. Should work.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:16
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Per the comp. rules: 508.2a Abilities that trigger on a creature attacking trigger only at the point the creature is declared as an attacker. They will not trigger if a creature attacks and then that creature’s characteristics change to match the ability’s trigger condition. It's also handy to know that such triggers go on the stack immediately after paying any costs required to attack, like propaganda and such.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:17
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Daxos?
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Jun 26, 2014 22:20
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homerlaw posted:Daxos? It's basically Daxos, but since it's hybrid instead of gold you can cast it in either a monowhite or monoblue deck. Blue doesn't get lifegain and white doesn't get ophidians.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:23
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The "problem" with the color pie seems to be that the idea of color identity as game mechanic doesn't fit perfectly on top of the idea of color identity as fantasy-world flavor. The latter benefits from bleed, transgression, contravention of expectations, etc. (or at least it does in a creatively robust setting), whereas it just creates headaches for the former. If Magic were a bleep bloop game that didn't market itself based on the flavor of being a wizard, you probably wouldn't want to bleed the color pie at all. Fuzzy Mammal posted:They did that, and it was called phyrexian mana. People complained a lot about it and it led to poo poo like mental misstep. Mental Misstep is actually one of the worst examples because IIRC it mostly got played in decks that were using blue mana anyway (granted, this is a lot of the decks in the format in question). Its problem was more that it was free without card disadvantage (cf. FoW) when you needed it to be, still very cheap when you didn't, and most importantly it created a massive distorting effect because it was targeted at a single very particular spectrum of spells that also happened to be all the most important plays in the format, so you had a general brouhaha as people either got their thoughtseizes and ponders misstepped and raged about it, or made their decks otherwise worse by building around it. I thought it was pretty interesting how for example some people started playing Diamond or Chrome Moxen and aimed to jump right to Dark Confidant on the first turn or whatever rather than try to play one-drops, but I guess a lot of people playing the format didn't enjoy it much. In terms of people hating Phyrexian mana because it let colors do different things, Dismember and to a lesser extent Gut Shot are much better examples. To change subject, I'm surprised they're reprinting a Kithkin dude, rather than making a similar or functionally identical card, given how often Lorwyn is treated like flavor leprosy by the powers that be. I wonder if they'll replace the Lorwyn art with something XXXtreme.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:24
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homerlaw posted:Daxos? Multicolor cards are different than hybrid, in that you must pay both colors of mana, so multicolor cards can do things both colors can do. Hybrid cards can be cast using mana of either color, so typically (I didn't say always, would-be pedants) they are designed to only do things both colors could do.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:26
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"Leprosy by the powers that be"? Good lord you're melodramatic. Lorwyn just wasn't received super well, hence why they haven't doubled down on it. Gasp! Kithkin will probably show up in an appropriate setting again, just like Kor and Werewolves and other stuff along those lines. Its being printed with the original art, just like the other kithkin in this set 
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Jun 26, 2014 22:31
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JerryLee posted:To change subject, I'm surprised they're reprinting a Kithkin dude, rather than making a similar or functionally identical card, given how often Lorwyn is treated like flavor leprosy by the powers that be. Teasing aside, there's already one other kithkin dude spoiled, so maybe there's a bunch of them that just haven't been spoiled yet.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:33
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Elyv posted:They consider Planar Chaos a mistake so they will never do this. They don't consider Planar Chaos a mistake though, they just won't ever do that block again.
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Jun 26, 2014 22:38
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Literally The Worst posted:They don't consider Planar Chaos a mistake though, they just won't ever do that block again. MaRo has gone on record and said that the block was a mistake. It's not exactly Homelands, but there's very good reasons why they won't ever do that sort of thing, most of them having to do with the colour pie, or making content that only few people can enjoy.
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