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Jippa posted:I dreaded maths more than any subject at school it physically made my brain hurt. my mother was working at a chemist after her business didn't do well enough to get taxed or badly enough to go bankrupt, and is currently training as a pharmacist on the recommendation of the head pharma locally. She can handle medications and the legal bullshit just fine but had a serious issue working the till in her first month, because she's old enough that the concept of tallying was foreign to her and I suddenly realised that without the basic of base-10/set theory mathematics being taught at a young age, you are pretty much hosed at any job requiring numbers.
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Jun 27, 2014 11:57
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LemonDrizzle posted:Carney unironically declaring that low interest rates are the new normal and will settle at around 2.5% in the medium/long term: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28053045 I look forward to the big crash and the BBC unironically asking "Why did nobody see this coming?"
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Jun 27, 2014 12:13
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haakman posted:Was that English? There seems to be a sort of autistic belief amongst mathematicians and scientists that if you only knew this amazing fact you'll be so interested you'll complete a doctoral thesis at a Russell Group university. It's plainly bollocks. Most people need a basic understanding of maths and science for their day to day lives and we don't serve children well by forcing it down their necks in the way that so many seem to think we should. I did a stem degree, I love science and I love teaching science to primary school kids, I especially love answering their questions (or trying to, the challenge can be bringing degree level knowledge down to primary school understanding). But, beyond encouraging an interest by being an 'inspirational' teacher, if a kid hates science he will continue to and you're just going to put him off school if you force him to do stuff that be hates post-16.
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Jun 27, 2014 12:57
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LemonDrizzle posted:Carney unironically declaring that low interest rates are the new normal and will settle at around 2.5% in the medium/long term: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28053045 Remind me, I know why they're not raising interest rates (because then everyone's mortgages will go up and the housing bubble will go pop), but how are low interest rates hurting us in the meantime?
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Jun 27, 2014 13:17
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Darth Walrus posted:Remind me, I know why they're not raising interest rates (because then everyone's mortgages will go up and the housing bubble will go pop), but how are low interest rates hurting us in the meantime? It encourages borrowing by providing cheap debt for spending, which is one of the reasons it was slashed so low in the first place, to encourage spending. Since cheap debt is what got us into this mess in the first place, long-term low interest rates simply lead to a repeat of 2008.
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Jun 27, 2014 13:27
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I've just finished a degree in maths and I did a poo poo load of pure stuff sort of as abstract as possible (gently caress you functional analysis) and by my reckoning the best way to teach maths especially to people who find it hard is to put it in a useful context. I remember at GCSE level the people who found maths hard and didn't enjoy would say well what's the point of being able to find the zeros of a quadratic polynomial and no answer was given, they were just told to put the figures into the quadratic formula and get the answer. Now anyone who has studied a subject at university with a mathematical framework underneath it has probably solved quadratic equations a poo poo load of times in a poo poo load if simple ways, normally with real world applications so why not introduce some of the more basic less abstract applications at school? Rote learning without explanation is bad, teaching maths in an abstract sense would be just as bad as the vast majority of students aren't going to be the sort of person who sees beauty in Euler's Formula. It needs to be taught as a practical subject, this should increase understanding and interest.
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Jun 27, 2014 13:44
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Darth Walrus posted:Remind me, I know why they're not raising interest rates (because then everyone's mortgages will go up and the housing bubble will go pop), but how are low interest rates hurting us in the meantime? I don't think they are hurting us at the moment, especially while the Fed and the ECB are merrily running zero interest rate policies of their own and Japan is being Japan. If the BoE raised the base rate, the pound would strengthen substantially against other major global currencies, which would be bad for British exporters and our balance of payments. On top of that, cheap credit should encourage businesses to invest and expand. It does also put inflationary pressure on the housing market, but that's better than the alternative all things considered, especially since the bank can try to curtail house price inflation by other means but there would be no way of doing the same for the negative effects of higher rates. Contrary to popular belief, there's more to the national economy than just the housing market and consumer credit.
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Jun 27, 2014 13:47
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StoneOfShame posted:Now anyone who has studied a subject at university with a mathematical framework underneath it has probably solved quadratic equations a poo poo load of times in a poo poo load if simple ways, normally with real world applications so why not introduce some of the more basic less abstract applications at school? In school, I absolutely loved physics, which obviously quite a maths-heavy subject, but hated actual maths lessons. I didn't realize until I had left school that it was because in the physics lessons, we were provided with a practical problem, even fairly basic ones like "work out the terminal velocity of a falling object given it's dimensions", but in maths we were simply told "This is how you solve these kinds of problems. Do this page of these problems, just with different numbers". Like you said, when you're in high school, you wonder "Well, when the gently caress will I ever need quadratic formulas in reality?". But in physics, it felt more like "Well, Ohm's Law feels like it could actually have some use in real life". I bet kids would be much more engaged with maths if we moved entirely away from rote learning and actually taught them problem solving skills USING maths, instead of just maths for maths' sake.
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Jun 27, 2014 14:27
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LemonDrizzle posted:Carney unironically declaring that low interest rates are the new normal and will settle at around 2.5% in the medium/long term: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28053045 The economic equivalent of "I'm gonna live forever!" edit: Stone when did you finish your degree I thought you were like halfway through it, lets get drunk this weekend.
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Jun 27, 2014 14:41
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Darth Walrus posted:Remind me, I know why they're not raising interest rates (because then everyone's mortgages will go up and the housing bubble will go pop), but how are low interest rates hurting us in the meantime? It encourages spending now, but just shores up more debt for the future that will have to be paid off. Weakens the pound, lets inflation run up. Penalises people doing the right thing and saving for their future (people near retirement especially) whilst rewarding people taking on risky debt (often people with enough money to lose it and still retire comfortably). Similarly, with low interest rates "zombie" firms being run badly can keep going, taking on more debt to explode in the future and stopping newer, better firms replacing them. They also drive up the price of houses, since people can borrow more as the repayments are lower, adding more to the pile marked "won't be able to afford an interest rate at 5% and will lose their home" Banks need it because as long as the people and companies they have lent to can keep up repayments on thier loans, they can write up their books with all this triple A rated debt which is as good as money, they can't hide it if the company actually goes bankrupt and can't pay it though, and given the amount they have on their books this would be disastrous. However, at some point it has to go and keeping interest rates low to essentially save the banks cannot work for ever, and the longer it is put off the worse it will be.They also drive up the price of houses, since people can borrow more as the repayments are lower, adding more to the pile marked "won't be able to afford an interest rate at 5% and will lose their home" obviously again something the banks will desperatly stop trying to happen as they will have to write that debt (or cash as they treat it) off their books
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Jun 27, 2014 14:42
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I think statistics should be taught in secondary school a lot more, and in a more interesting way, using for example current affairs and pointing out how stats can be manipulated instead of just 'how to calculate the mean, median and mode' without any real world context. This would be really easy and interesting to do and is useful for literally everyone, as an understanding of stats and how the media uses them should be in everyone's repertoire. Obviously more pure maths is important, especially for those going into stem subjects, but I really think stats should be revamped and could be so so easily.
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Jun 27, 2014 14:48
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A friend of a friend's had £8000 taken out of her bank account as an overdraft or something but her card's in her wallet. Only possible if someone knew her pin and had access to her card because it's been returned. RBS are refusing to do anything because they say it must have been her. Bank statement indicates local cashpoint. I've told her to report it to the polis and to ask the CAB for help. Anything else to do?
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Jun 27, 2014 15:44
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Hijo Del Helmsley posted:In school, I absolutely loved physics, which obviously quite a maths-heavy subject, but hated actual maths lessons. I didn't realize until I had left school that it was because in the physics lessons, we were provided with a practical problem, even fairly basic ones like "work out the terminal velocity of a falling object given it's dimensions", but in maths we were simply told "This is how you solve these kinds of problems. Do this page of these problems, just with different numbers". There's a lot to be said about the implementation of Curriculum for Excellence in Scotland, but trying to ensure that everything is underpinned by real life context could do a lot for engagement. Plus it also allowed me the flexibility to say "gently caress it, I'm making Wednesday a problem solving day" and technically I was still following guidelines. I think there's still an air of Mathematics teacher focused on "drill and practice", sadly more due to the fact that schools still care about exam league tables, local authority benchmarks and parental phone calls which can lead to the subject becoming as dull as we all remember but I think we've managed to nudge ever so closely to engaging recently. Edit: Just say the stats post, I've actually tried to do a lot more with stats recently buy weirdly, it stats seems to be something that makes a lot of my colleagues with pure Maths backgrounds roll their eyes and try and quickly sweep to the side.
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Jun 27, 2014 15:48
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Spangly A posted:The basic of base-10/set theory mathematics What is this? Also, since when did Immigration Enforcement Vans become a thing? Was driving on the A140 today and noticed one looking remarkably like a police van driving past.
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Jun 27, 2014 15:48
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Coohoolin posted:A friend of a friend's had £8000 taken out of her bank account as an overdraft or something but her card's in her wallet. Only possible if someone knew her pin and had access to her card because it's been returned. RBS are refusing to do anything because they say it must have been her. Bank statement indicates local cashpoint. I've told her to report it to the polis and to ask the CAB for help. Anything else to do? Can she afford legal advice? The team at the University of Cambridge that have been busily exposing bank card inadequacies have assisted defrauded customers before. What do you mean by "it's been returned"? She sent the card back to the bank? Edit: I'd suggest the next step would be to lodge a formal complaint with the bank. If that gets nowhere, then the next step should be the Financial Ombudsman who will independently review their response to your friend's complaint.
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Jun 27, 2014 15:52
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Coohoolin posted:A friend of a friend's had £8000 taken out of her bank account as an overdraft or something but her card's in her wallet. Only possible if someone knew her pin and had access to her card because it's been returned. RBS are refusing to do anything because they say it must have been her. Bank statement indicates local cashpoint. I've told her to report it to the polis and to ask the CAB for help. Anything else to do? Normally there's a limit on cash withdrawals, something like £250 or £500. Does the statement show an £8000 cash withdrawal at an ATM? What's the limit on her account and who set it so high? And what's been returned? The cash or the card? Did it actually leave her possession?
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Jun 27, 2014 15:52
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"returned" as in the card is back in her possession. No clue as to how that's happened, but she definitely did not withdraw 8 grand.
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Jun 27, 2014 15:56
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Is it possible she unwittingly set up a continuous payment authority with a disreputable company of some sort?
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Jun 27, 2014 15:58
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Pissflaps posted:Normally there's a limit on cash withdrawals, something like £250 or £500. Does the statement show an £8000 cash withdrawal at an ATM? What's the limit on her account and who set it so high? The limit's dependent on bank policy (and the ATM owners policy), and some banks allow multiple withdrawals of the transaction limit up to a higher limit or even no limit. Assuming it's an even vaguely modern ATM in the UK it will disallow magstripe-only transactions from UK banks (there are still a few ancient ATMs that, believe it or not, still haven't been updated to chip-and-pin) so cloning is unlikely. There are however a few attacks against chip-and-pin cards that may allow someone with physical possession of (not just access to) the card; however these are now mostly mitigated against. The other thing I'd say is that your friend needs to get this reported to the Police right now, and take the crime number into the branch and start arguing with people (don't ever ring a bank to complain, get into a branch and make noise).
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Jun 27, 2014 16:04
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Coohoolin posted:"returned" as in the card is back in her possession. No clue as to how that's happened, but she definitely did not withdraw 8 grand. How, when, and why was it out of her possession?
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Jun 27, 2014 16:05
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goddamnedtwisto posted:How, when, and why was it out of her possession? Bank statement says two weeks ago, she doesn't know for sure. I'm relaying all this at the moment, thanks guys, it's really helpful.
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Jun 27, 2014 16:07
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Coohoolin posted:Bank statement says two weeks ago, she doesn't know for sure. I'm relaying all this at the moment, thanks guys, it's really helpful. There's definitely some missing steps here, but if the card was out of her possession when the withdrawal(s) and not reported stolen she's going to be liable for at least £50 and possibly all of the amount.
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Jun 27, 2014 16:18
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haakman posted:What is this? To keep it simple, set theory is mostly about putting numbers in groups. Our current currency is base-10, so you count it up in 10s and 100s to get £s. So when counting currency for a till, you count up the pennies into pounds and count that as 1. A tally (four strikes and a score) is a way of counting in base five, so you know that it's five times however many full tallys. Putting a coin or a counter on the till for every pound you count up and you refer to every coin up top as a pound. Makes the counting much quicker. You don't need to know any of the actual theory to use it, it's a great example of real uses of mathematics, we count money in tens and 100s. My mum grew up with old money and no other use of set theory, so she doesn't get how to count pounds up and put a penny on the till. The idea is foreign to her and she finds it difficult. But without it, she's much slower at racking a till than others at the store. As for the vans, they came up during the first UKIP push. They're wonderfully racist.
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Jun 27, 2014 16:39
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StoneOfShame posted:Now anyone who has studied a subject at university with a mathematical framework underneath it has probably solved quadratic equations a poo poo load of times in a poo poo load if simple ways, normally with real world applications so why not introduce some of the more basic less abstract applications at school?
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Jun 27, 2014 16:41
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haakman posted:What is this? Base 10 is the way we generally write out numbers as opposed to say base 2 which would be binary, its the old hundreds, tens and units that I and maybe you were taught at primary school. Set theory is the principle of dividing things into sets based on a shared property that defines the set, its used in defining numbers. So for example you would have the set of natural numbers which is the positive while numbers. Jakabite posted:I think statistics should be taught in secondary school a lot more, and in a more interesting way, using for example current affairs and pointing out how stats can be manipulated instead of just 'how to calculate the mean, median and mode' without any real world context. This would be really easy and interesting to do and is useful for literally everyone, as an understanding of stats and how the media uses them should be in everyone's repertoire. Obviously more pure maths is important, especially for those going into stem subjects, but I really think stats should be revamped and could be so so easily. I did a fair bit of that sort of stats in A-level geography at least in the project part of it, now geography was a great A-level. Stats in general gets a bad rep as its considered a bit dull buts its an interesting, useful and fun to do area. Phoon posted:edit: Stone when did you finish your degree I thought you were like halfway through it, lets get drunk this weekend. My last exam was at the start of the month, busy tonight and tomorrow but I reckon I'm getting trashed on Sunday. edit: Yeah what Spangly said.
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Jun 27, 2014 16:45
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Im completly comfortable with number bases (nerd alert when i was 9 and got my bbc model b computer i would actually write out binary on bits of paper) what i do not understand and never have is the pre-decimal money system its loving mystifying, however many times my father has tried to explain it i still dont get it. Its got multiple bases, which I think could be described with set theory.
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Jun 27, 2014 16:54
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Seaside Loafer posted:Im completly comfortable with number bases (nerd alert when i was 9 and got my bbc model b computer i would actually write out binary on bits of paper) what i do not understand and never have is the pre-decimal money system its loving mystifying, however many times my father has tried to explain it i still dont get it. Its got multiple bases, which I think could be described with set theory. As someone not old enough to have experienced old money I am completely mystified by it, it just seems so complicated and absurd, my mother insists it wasn't complicated at all, I disagree. I always loved this footnote from Good Omens Good Omens posted:NOTE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE AND AMERICANS: One shilling = Five Pee. It helps to understand the antique finances of the Witchfinder Army if you know the original British monetary system: Two farthings = One Ha'penny. Two ha'pennies = One Penny. Three pennies = A Thrupenny Bit. Two Thrupences = A Sixpence. Two Sixpences = One Shilling, or Bob. Two Bob = A Florin. One Florin and One Sixpence = Half a Crown. Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note. Two Ten Bob Notes = One Pound (or 240 pennies). One Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea.
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Jun 27, 2014 17:02
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Spangly A posted:My mum grew up with old money and no other use of set theory, so she doesn't get how to count pounds up and put a penny on the till. The idea is foreign to her and she finds it difficult. But without it, she's much slower at racking a till than others at the store. That's the wild thing really, older people tend to have more experience working with different bases, because of all the old wacky money and imperial measurements for everything. It's just that without an overview of what's going on ~generally~, you're stuck in that little box of procedures that you were made to memorise. If you don't understand why they work, you won't understand how the same thing can be changed slightly and work in a similar but different situation e- OLD MONEY CHAT Also it's similar with time if you think about it. Sure we're all somehow comfortable with base60 and base12 tacked on there, but suggest using base24 (24 hr clock) instead (where the conversion is just 'add or subtract 12 to go from a.m. to p.m.') and some people immediately 
baka kaba fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 17:05
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StoneOfShame posted:As someone not old enough to have experienced old money I am completely mystified by it, it just seems so complicated and absurd, my mother insists it wasn't complicated at all, I disagree. I always loved this footnote from Good Omens I love old money and just how complicated it is. Who the gently caress thought that counting up in pennies, shillings(6 pennies), half crowns (2.5 shillings or 15 pennies) and pounds (8 half crowns, 20 shillings, 240 pennies) was a good idea? Edit: I stand corrected. Shilling = 12d, half crown = 2.5 shillings = 30d. tentish klown fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 17:15
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Was it a currency system designed by committee by any chance?
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Jun 27, 2014 17:26
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seems more like something that would develop over time
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Jun 27, 2014 17:31
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Listening to the radio today and apparently Cameron is very brave for losing a vote 26-2. Why doesn't he want this Juncker guy to be President of the European Commission? No coverage whatsoever.
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Jun 27, 2014 17:45
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tentish klown posted:I love old money and just how complicated it is. Who the gently caress thought that counting up in pennies, shillings(6 pennies), half crowns (2.5 shillings or 15 pennies) and pounds (8 half crowns, 20 shillings, 240 pennies) was a good idea? 12d=1s and 20s=£1. The assortment of notes and coins was insane, but I guess that's what happens when you allow your monetary system to be built over a couple hundred years by the kind of people that routinely married first cousins.
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Jun 27, 2014 17:46
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LemonDrizzle posted:Carney unironically declaring that low interest rates are the new normal and will settle at around 2.5% in the medium/long term: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28053045 As a Canadian: sorry about our exports.
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Jun 27, 2014 17:52
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Gort posted:Why doesn't he want this Juncker guy to be President of the European Commission? No coverage whatsoever. At the very least Junker supports the implementation of the Lisbon treaty as it stands, and has been accused of being a die-hard United states of Europe style federalist. The former is too much for the Conservative party backbench alone, the prospect of the later is sending them into convulsions. The last few pages of the EU Parliament thread covers pretty much all of it.
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Jun 27, 2014 17:52
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You can probably add Paxman to the list of History's Greatest Monsters: http://www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/2014/06/paxman-comes-out-one-nation-tory-says-newsnight-made-13-year-olds Not that I expected him to be a committed communist or anything (though apparently he was as a student), but I thought a lifetime of having to wade through politicians' bullshit might have pulled him a bit further to the left.
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Jun 27, 2014 17:58
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Coohoolin posted:Bank statement says two weeks ago, she doesn't know for sure. I'm relaying all this at the moment, thanks guys, it's really helpful. Could someone have physically gone into the branch and pretended to be her to withdraw the money over the counter? If that's the case I would advise her to check her credit ratings as someone maybe committing id theft with her details.
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Jun 27, 2014 18:02
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Answers Me posted:You can probably add Paxman to the list of History's Greatest Monsters: Surprise, rich middle aged white man is Tory!
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Jun 27, 2014 18:03
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That's what you get for confusing intelligence with an old man being miserable.
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Jun 27, 2014 18:08
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Coohoolin posted:A friend of a friend's had £8000 taken out of her bank account as an overdraft or something but her card's in her wallet. Only possible if someone knew her pin and had access to her card because it's been returned. RBS are refusing to do anything because they say it must have been her. Bank statement indicates local cashpoint. I've told her to report it to the polis and to ask the CAB for help. Anything else to do? That happened to me when I was a student, turned out it was my flatmate. Best bet is go to the police and hope that one of the CCTV cameras were pointing the right way - a lot of bank machines have CCTV too but they probably would have mentioned that when she called to dispute it.
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Jun 27, 2014 18:51
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