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Shaocaholica posted:That's actually totally besides the point. As a VFX artists that usually doesn't mean poo poo to you as in you'll never see a bonus or even garauntee of future work based on box office. I would rather take an academy award and we all know AOE isn't going to get that. I would imagine as a VFX or any kind of artist having your product seen by just about everyone is a good thing and of all the things the Transformer series gets flak on, the graphics are not one of them. As for the academy it could very well go for it. There's a lot of good VFX heavy movies coming out this year.
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Jul 1, 2014 00:15
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Shaocaholica posted:That's actually totally besides the point. As a VFX artists that usually doesn't mean poo poo to you as in you'll never see a bonus or even garauntee of future work based on box office. I would rather take an academy award and we all know AOE isn't going to get that. I understand it's trendy to decry the films of Michael Bay as the lowest of the low as far as "cinema as ART" is concerned, but both the first film as well as Dark of the Moon were nominated for Oscars but lost. The technical awards "don't count" in the eyes of most people really heavily invested in film awards, but I'm sure that the Transformers films represent a pretty good shot at winning an Academy Award to effects studios given that half of them to date have received nominations. Daryl Surat fucked around with this message at 01:19 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 00:34
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IT BEGINS posted:I think it's a fair analysis, though I feel the movies are more likely portraying a canonically morally good figure as morally gray, rather than portraying a morally gray figure as good through the lens of pre-modern morality. Who needs "likely"? What are Optimus and his allies doing? Where do they come from? The things that lead me to believe that Optimus is a representation of pre-modern heroism is specifically that he does not act, nor do I think he is portrayed, as "a canonically morally good figure [portrayed] as morally gray." MisterBibs' intractable opposition to even the suggestion of satire, if anything, has proved canonical moral goodness is meaningless, that he sees Optimus as a hero no matter what he does, and even if it's not consistent with canon. Optimus Prime's very name tells us that he is primordial. He is a machine before machines and, at least in the first two films, is like the ultimate pagan middle-finger to the watchmaker analogy. (See, also: The AC/DC song "Who Made Who" from the Maximum Overdrive soundtrack.) If anyone has an excuse for acting like a pre-modern hero, it's got to be the pre-modern being. He makes much more sense to me as a pre-modern hero forced to contend with post-modern values. The cool thing about Bay's films is that the post-modern condition sets the stage for a pre-modern cataclysm, such that the internal contradictions of the contemporary moral order are doomed to 'send us back to the Stone Age,' as it were. (This plays into the macrocosmic hierarchy I pointed out before.) I see in this debate over Optimus's cinematic characterization and evolution two forms of reductionism. One is MisterBibs' blatant textual ignorance: It doesn't matter what actually happens in the film, because the post-hoc equation of heroism with moral goodness suspends the need to pay attention to the movie. He's right ('Optimus is a hero'), but for the wrong reasons ('because he gets the bad guy'). The other is the increasingly popular oppositional reading in which, if the text does not support Optimus's actions as moral or sane ones, then he is not the hero. Thus, we should read the Transformers films as satire. But this is wrong for the right reasons. While I may be drawing on a historical framework that may not be consistent with a general, modern cultural understanding of heroism, the very basis of this oppositional reading is that Bay and his cohorts are not appealing to general attitudes, but are subverting them, consciously or not. But subversion and satire aren't necessarily the same thing. It's perfectly possible that Bay is challenging pre-conceived notions of heroism, but not the identity of / identification with the hero.
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Jul 1, 2014 00:39
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Shaocaholica posted:That's actually totally besides the point. As a VFX artists that usually doesn't mean poo poo to you as in you'll never see a bonus or even garauntee of future work based on box office. I would rather take an academy award and we all know AOE isn't going to get that. Holy poo poo, a person who cares about the Oscars.
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Jul 1, 2014 00:39
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Shaocaholica posted:How do you feel about working on something thats rated so low and gets raged on by fans? In situations like these, I mentally replace select words with 'I' or 'me', for accuracy. "How do you feel about working on something thats rated so low by me?"
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Jul 1, 2014 00:51
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:In situations like these, I mentally replace select words with 'I' or 'me', for accuracy. Well I meant it as an honest question to a fellow industry artist, not to berate the guy because I don't like the TF movies. Executionally the movie is probably fine (I haven't seen it yet). So was Battlefield Earth but a couple of guys I work with still joke about it. You can be proud of your specific work as an artist and still object to the bigger picture. Maybe you animated an Optimus battle sequence and its pretty rad and you got all the nuances right and it just rocked. That doesn't mean you actually like the film as a whole and all the stuff that wasn't really your work.
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Jul 1, 2014 01:05
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Shaocaholica posted:Well I meant it as an honest question to a fellow industry artist, not to berate the guy because I don't like the TF movies. Executionally the movie is probably fine (I haven't seen it yet). So was Battlefield Earth but a couple of guys I work with still joke about it. You can be proud of your specific work as an artist and still object to the bigger picture. Maybe you animated an Optimus battle sequence and its pretty rad and you got all the nuances right and it just rocked. That doesn't mean you actually like the film as a whole and all the stuff that wasn't really your work. The film as a whole is made up of contributions from people exactly like you. Each one is doing specific work, introducing those nuances. That's the bigger picture. That's the 'substance'.
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Jul 1, 2014 01:09
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The film as a whole is made up of contributions from people exactly like you. Each one is doing specific work, introducing those nuances. That's the bigger picture. That's the 'substance'. 99% of the bigger picture is the director, producer, writer(s), production designer, studio executives, invisible hands. We're all sous chefs and line cooks. With different leadership it could be a totally different movie but just as well 'cooked'. Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 01:14
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MisterBibs posted:That's not true. I care about the morality. Fortunately, there's no negative mortality about what the Autobots do to Decepticons. Because they are Decepticons. So, if a group uses the proper symbols and stomps on an out-group with sufficient zeal, then there are no actions that they might take that would convince you of their ultimate immorality. Congratulations, you are a literal fascist. It's funny how the only character we see actually enslave anyone in any of these movies is Optimus Prime, who does it explicitly to those dinosaurs as well as attempting to do it to humanity. Mornacale fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 01:26
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Shaocaholica posted:How do you feel about working on something thats rated so low and gets raged on by fans? Seriously I get that having VFX work is a good thing to put food on the table but wouldn't you rather be working on something with more substance? I only say this because this is the 4th iteration of what I would consider garbage script and inappropriate production design. I want to feel for my fellow artists but I also don't want to do that if they totally don't agree with the above statements. I work in feature animation and honestly I'm kinda sad that some of the projects I'm involved with are garbage too. Honestly it doesn't really bother me. I'm not a huge fan of the previous transformers movies and I knew what I was getting into. I'm an effects animator so from the point of view of getting to blow poo poo the gently caress up its a great movie to work on. Some of the shots I did were the crashing spaceships during the getaway from the knightship where they are zipping through the freeway tunnels they were fun as hell and also a big artistic and technical challenge to make work and look good. While I would rather that every project I worked on had critical acclaim and universal praise that isn't realistic so I don't get too hung up on it. I've worked on a pretty decent mix of projects in the last 10 years some of which were critical darlings and some of wich were transfomers 4  I do think that some people go a bit overboard with their hateboner for all things Michael Bay and especially transformers. I found him a good director to work for and he has a strong idea of what he wants and doesn't flip flop around. Watching critics line up to out hate each other over this movie is pretty entertaining. Oscars wise I would say the work that we have done at ILM is great but I really don't worry that much about oscars etc. I would say transformers 4 would be unlikely to win regardless of competition just because its the 4th film in the series and even though the complexity and difficulty of the work is vastly higher than the first movie it is still something that has been done before. Which isn't going to win the votes of the wider academy even if it can get a nomination from the VFX branch.
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Jul 1, 2014 01:49
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Ash1138 posted:Megatron wanted the AllSpark to save his race from extinction. Only Optimus Prime claimed that Megatron wanted to use the AllSpark to turn Earth's machines into an army. What do you call a race saved by Megatron? An army devoted to conquering and subjugating the galaxy. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 bucks, do not even bother arguing otherwise. There is zero-point-zero reason to believe that if Megatron had the Allspark, he'd use it to restore a good, noble, Autobot-centric leadership. Nope, I care absolutely nothing about your fanfic where he just wants to restore Cybertron out of the goodness of his villainous heart.
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Jul 1, 2014 01:52
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MisterBibs posted:What do you call a race saved by Megatron? An army devoted to conquering and subjugating the galaxy. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 bucks, do not even bother arguing otherwise. Why do you assume the Autobot leadership was good or noble, outside of preconcieved (and frequently challenged) notions from other versions of Transformers? You are sounding like a no-joke piece of Facist scum.
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Jul 1, 2014 01:54
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DoctorWhat posted:Why do you assume the Autobot leadership was good or noble, outside of preconcieved (and frequently challenged) notions from other versions of Transformers? We keep coming back to this. Outside of a blatantly oppositional viewing where spaceships move from right-to-left and everyone has scars/beards because you really want it to, you've had four movies where the Autobots are heroic, noble entities. The only Autobot who isn't as such allies himself with the Decepticons.
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Jul 1, 2014 02:05
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MisterBibs posted:What do you call a race saved by Megatron? An army devoted to conquering and subjugating the galaxy. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 bucks, do not even bother arguing otherwise. The films make it clear that there is no such thing as "a good, noble, Autobot-centric leadership." It does seem possible that all Transformers are by nature a force of indiscriminate destruction--see of course the Allspark's creations, which then theoretically "grow up" into brutish and insane adults like the existing Transformers. But it seems insane to discount that among at least 7 billion thinking beings there aren't a sizeable number that might be peaceful and constructive. Megatron wants to save those people; Optimus Prime wants to either rule them or exterminate them. e: On a different vein, Trans4mers makes something of the fact that Galvatron has no "soul", but I'm not sure if we should believe in that nonsense. After all, Prime does have one and he wants to murder God. On the other hand, the films (2 in particular) haven't been particularly light-handed about saying "ROBOT RELIGION IS REAL". Mornacale fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 02:06
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Shaocaholica posted:99% of the bigger picture is the director, producer, writer(s), production designer, studio executives, invisible hands. You do yourself a disservice. The Transformers film's best parts are their VFX. Not just in terms of being the best stuff out there, but their effectiveness is so wonderful that even if Bay turned out to be a psychopath with literally no brain, ILM alone have added to the text with their machines. The Transformers function as both an update of their 80s counterparts - the edge of the screen functioning as an alternate dimension from which parts can appear or disappear at will - but they take this aspect far further, turning them into these amazing monstrosity-creatures made of distorted abstract metal. A friend referred to Michael Bay as a futurist once, and I feel that's accurate in a lot of ways. But, as you say, the bigger picture is made of lots of invisible hands. The Animators are quite literally those hands. Edit: MisterBibs posted:There are good guys, and they wear this logo. Any argument otherwise hits that image and stops, dead in the water. The movie teaches us this, but it didn't even have to. Isn't there a part in the movies where a character points out that wearing these logos is a symbolic choice made by the characters? Hbomberguy fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 02:44
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Hbomberguy posted:Isn't there a part in the movies where a character points out that wearing these logos is a symbolic choice made by the characters? Jetfire: Tell me, is that robot civil war still going on? Who's winning? Sam Witwicky: The Decepticons. [Jetfire grimaces and spits] Jetfire: Well, I changed sides to the Autobots. Sam Witwicky: What do you mean, changed sides? Jetfire: It's a choice. It's an intensely personal decision. So much negativity... Who wants to live a life filled with hate? Wheelie: You mean you don't have to work for those miserable freaking Decepticons? Jetfire: If the Decepticons had their way, they'd destroy the whole universe!
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Jul 1, 2014 02:56
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Hahaha. Drift's concept art wears his status as an advertisement more blatantly. "NOTES: FRIENDLIER VERSION"
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Jul 1, 2014 03:00
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MisterBibs posted:What do you call a race saved by Megatron? An army devoted to conquering and subjugating the galaxy. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 bucks, do not even bother arguing otherwise. Hbomberguy posted:Isn't there a part in the movies where a character points out that wearing these logos is a symbolic choice made by the characters?
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Jul 1, 2014 03:01
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Could someone please provide a link to Terry's analysis of the 1986 film? I read the whole PDF and enjoyed it quite a bit. The Autobots in this movie were revolting. The character designs made little sense and the characters acted like children. The human characters were across-the-board terrible except for TJ Miller. The irresponsible father, the creeper boyfriend, the useless jailbait daughter, the evil Steve Jobs guy, and mega-evil Frasier Crane all made me hope Lockdown would destroy all the Transformers and blow up planet Earth. On that note: if Lockdown is out collecting bounties on the behalf of his creators, wouldn't he (and they) be very upset by the notion that humans were repurposing their intellectual property? I was expecting that when Lockdown saw Galvatron he was going to decide right then and there that the deal with evil Frasier was null and void. My friend who saw the movie with me talked about his perception of Lockdown as some kind of Uncle Tom character. The man-made Transformers were quite disappointing. For some reason Galvatron was a complete badass but all the synthetic robots were incredibly weak. The stream-of-particles transformations were terrible, but it was much worse that these characters did not take advantage of this ability in battle at all. The first time I saw this ability, I expected to see robots that could effectively teleport away from attacks. My favorite scene in this movie was on Lockdown's ship. The daughter character's encounter with the tentacle pinchers reminded me of the scenes at the end of the 80s movie when the protagonists' ship crashed inside Unicron. I thought about this during the Superman movie and it applies to this franchise as well: I think an interesting movie could be made about the human reaction to the arrival of the Transformers. How would religious people react to undeniable evidence that humans are not the only sentient beings in the universe? How would physics, astronomy and computer science be forever altered by super-advanced extraterrestrials? I guess there was some exploration of the consequences of (one of the) extraterrestrials on science (to a small group of researchers) in the first and fourth movies, but I really wonder how the various religions would react.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:02
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"Optimus Prime" sounds more like a Robot Caesar than anyone I'd want to be around, to be perfectly honest. Though even that has more impact than "Megatron". What's that supposed to mean? Large robot?
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Jul 1, 2014 03:03
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Isn't the name Megatron a reference to the angel Metatron?
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Jul 1, 2014 03:06
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CJSwiss posted:Jetfire: Tell me, is that robot civil war still going on? Who's winning? I'm glad someone brought this up; I didn't think I could cite an ex-Decepticon dismantling any pro-Deceopticon fanfic without being too  about it.Arquinsiel posted:"Cybertronian". Your entire argument is bullshit, since your undeniable hero character is that same race that Megatron is trying to save. Megatron is simply trying to grow an slave army to further his personal goals of conquest and subjugation. What is the only reason Megatron betrays SP in the third film? He's not going to be the dude in charge of the conquest and subjugation. Dammit Who? posted:What's that supposed to mean? Villanous Dictator, genocidal monster, and all-around horrible person.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:10
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Bob Budiansky created the name Megatron when Hasbro contracted Marvel in the 1980s to help them come up with characters for the toys they were importing from Japan and rebranding as Transformers. It's supposed to be a combination of "megaton" and "electronic". Hasbro initially rejected it because they thought it sounded too scary, but Budiansky convinced them to use it since that was the point.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:11
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PBCrunch posted:Could someone please provide a link to Terry's analysis of the 1986 film? I read the whole PDF and enjoyed it quite a bit. Someone please link this! Lord Krangdar posted:Isn't the name Megatron a reference to the angel Metatron? Metatron is a hilarious word - essentially meaning 'instrument of everything' (might be getting this wrong, if so please let me know). Metatron is literally the voice of the Universe - Old Testament philosophy interprets this to mean the voice of God himself. It all depends on whether you view 'God' as some absolute being who must be obeyed, or as some sort of underlying moral calling. I need to go back and read the entire bible some time, and all of its apocrypha. This poo poo's fascinating. Thanks, Transformers! MisterBibs posted:I'm glad someone brought this up; I didn't think I could cite an ex-Decepticon dismantling any pro-Deceopticon fanfic without being too We finally find a robot who switched sides to the 'good' guys, and he's a loving crazy person who thinks the enemies want to literally destroy the Universe and believes Optimus Prime, the man with propoganda-beams that literally lie, in the text of the films. Hbomberguy fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 03:12
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An earlier poster (I think Misterbibs) mentioned that Megatron's intent was to chase the Allspark to Earth so that he could turn Earth's machines into more soldiers. That doesn't work because Earth didn't have electronics before Megatron's arrival. If domination of Earth was a priority for the Decepticons, wouldn't they have accomplished it long ago? They could have easily overtaken the planet at pretty much any point in human history before the unlocking of Megatron's technology. The Autobots have needed a lot of human help in the earlier parts of the series to be able to defeat the Decepticons. Without advanced engineering and computer-aided weaponry, this human assistance wouldn't have been worth much. The only conclusion is that if the Allspark was not on Earth (remember who put it here), the Decepticons would have no interest in Earth or humanity.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:17
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Hbomberguy posted:Metatron is a hilarious word - essentially meaning 'instrument of everything' (might be getting this wrong, if so please let me know). Metatron is literally the voice of the Universe - Old Testament philosophy interprets this to mean the voice of God himself. It all depends on whether you view 'God' as some absolute being who must be obeyed, or as some sort of underlying moral calling. There basically is no consensus on Metatron's definite meaning. Some people think it means "a lesser YHWH", others say "to keep watch or protect", and even "one who sits behind the throne." Granted I'm beyond rusty on Talmudic history so you should take what I say with a grain of salt
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Jul 1, 2014 03:20
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MisterBibs posted:you've had four movies where the Autobots are heroic, noble entities. what loving movies have you been watching  Even beyond just the metatextual discussion going on here, even people who like the franchise as a whole have consistently been shocked/appalled by Optimus Prime and the Autobots' behavior in the films. "GIVE ME YOUR FACE" is not something a heroic, noble entity shouts in the heat of battle, regardless of how bad the supposed villain is. Also you're ignoring a huge thing that Terry has brought up repeatedly and is literally supported by the text of the film: Optimus Prime is a loving liar. In the first film, he shows Sam a vision of a hellish, apocalyptic Cybertron which by the third movie has been shown to be blatantly untrue by Cybertron itself making a surprise guest appearance above the planet.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:22
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This is absolutely hilarious. I'll go see the new movie within the week, but I might not have to with this posting 
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Jul 1, 2014 03:22
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PBCrunch posted:Could someone please provide a link to Terry's analysis of the 1986 film? I read the whole PDF and enjoyed it quite a bit. It's from earlier in the thread- Terry van Feleday posted:I said I was done, but then I realised I’d forgotten something. Something very important.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:22
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3 posted:what loving movies have you been watching The one with the obviously heroic Good Guys justifiably (and awesomely) do to the obviously evil Bad Guys. For four movies so far, and it keeps getting justifiably awesome every single time I see it. I get it, you let a whimsical fanfic of a forum thread influence the movie you saw. Hbomberguy posted:We finally find a robot who switched sides to the 'good' guys, and he's a loving crazy person who thinks the enemies want to literally destroy the Universe and believes Optimus Prime, the man with propoganda-beams that literally lie, in the text of the films. Yes, the guy who was working for the galaxy-conquering-and-subjugating side defected to the good guys, and believes the guy who can provide photographic evidence of what he's saying, which is confirmed in the fourth film when you see just how the Decepticons handled Cybertron in OP's absence: a mechanical wasteland. Pay no attention to the guy who knows enough about the Bad Guys to defect! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! There are no American infidels in Baghdad! War is Peace! MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 03:25
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MisterBibs posted:I'm glad someone brought this up; I didn't think I could cite an ex-Decepticon dismantling any pro-Deceopticon fanfic without being too MisterBibs posted:Megatron is simply trying to grow an slave army to further his personal goals of conquest and subjugation. What is the only reason Megatron betrays SP in the third film? He's not going to be the dude in charge of the conquest and subjugation.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:31
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I know I wasn't a fan of the third film, but I was so bored by this one that I felt like just walking out at multiple times. I saw it in 2D but it felt like the robots looked more like they belonged in a pure CG animated movie than a live-action one and the action felt really choppy.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:33
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drat, Terry needs to see this movie soon before this thread tears itself apart. The two sides of the over-analyzation fanaticism are going to start branding themselves and shooting clearly defined colored lasers at each other before long.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:34
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Arquinsiel posted:He's wearing the badge though. By your own logic that means he's lying. That's not my logic. He's not a Decepticon. There's reason to worry about him, initially, until it's realized that he defected to the Autobots long ago for clearly defined reasons. There's no actions in four Transformers movies to even begin to doubt the mentality/actions of the Autobots and of Optimus Prime. Nope,  oh my god that Decepticon's head got torn off is not something to doubt the mentality/actions of the Autobots.Arquinsiel posted:And Sentinel Prime's badge is what colour again? Does he even have a badge? No joke, I went through the whole movie thinking it was pretty neat that the guy didn't have an Autobot logo on him. Besides, his betrayal takes him out of the Good Guys category, just as The Fallen is taken out of the Good Guys category before the beginning of the second film.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:41
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MisterBibs posted:The one with the obviously heroic Good Guys justifiably (and awesomely) do to the obviously evil Bad Guys. For four movies so far, and it keeps getting justifiably awesome every single time I see it. This is honestly fantastic because it perfectly illustrates why I've come around to liking the films (barring ROTF anyway, that's still irredeemable garbage): they are as perfect a mirror as possible to the utter cynical nihilism of the 1980s 24 minute toy commercials that ended up being the genesis of the entire franchise. RED BADGE GOOD! PURPLE BADGE BAD! Strip way the terrible animation and cheesy dialogue and replace it with an almost hyperreal grit and photorealism, but keep the original spirit of the franchise, and you've got the live-action films in a nutshell. In many ways, the Bay films serve as the perfect counterbalance to the IDW ongoings, which are also fantastic in their own way. In the comics, the idea is basically "if these cartoon robots from your childhood acted and behaved like flawed, thinking humans and examined what they were doing, things would improve. Not instantly, but gradually, because in the real world endless war has solved literally zero problems." The franchise has historically been mostly an excuse to have two sides punch each other in the service of selling toys, but having the eternal toyetic war actually end and then have these big bombastic action heroes/villains have to sort through the mess to get their society going again is a loving ballsy move. And, on the opposing side, the Bay films take that and invert it, saying "if folks in the real world had the same ideology and behavior patterns of cartoon robots from your childhood, things would be a loving endless nightmare, because again, in the real world, brash jingoism and uncontrolled violence has solved literally zero problems." This unceasing jingoistic war has turned what was basically a normal Earth at the beginning of the series, into essentially a post-apocalyptic dystopia by the fourth film.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:46
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MisterBibs posted:That's not my logic. He's not a Decepticon. There's reason to worry about him, initially, until it's realized that he defected to the Autobots long ago for clearly defined reasons. They will crowd around us, panting with anguish and disappointment, and exasperated by our proud indefatigable courage, will hurl themselves forward to kill us, with all the more hatred as their hearts will be drunk with love and admiration for us. And strong healthy Injustice will shine radiantly from their eyes. For art can only be violence, cruelty, injustice.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:48
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Lord Krangdar posted:Isn't the name Megatron a reference to the angel Metatron? Looking at wikipedia: "The name itself probably comes from the Greek word megas (meaning great, grand), although in one of his interviews Budiansky claimed that it is in fact a portmanteau of electronic and megaton (megaton is a scientific term describing an explosive force equal to that of one million tons of TNT)." So yeah, that is kind of spooky. Not the first thing I would have expected, though.
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Jul 1, 2014 03:51
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MisterBibs posted:That's not my logic. He's not a Decepticon. There's reason to worry about him, initially, until it's realized that he defected to the Autobots long ago for clearly defined reasons. MisterBibs posted:Yup. The trustworthy ones. As opposed to Megatron and the Decepticons, which are not trustworthy.
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Jul 1, 2014 04:24
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MisterBibs posted:We keep coming back to this. Outside of a blatantly oppositional viewing where spaceships move from right-to-left and everyone has scars/beards because you really want it to, you've had four movies where the Autobots are heroic, noble entities. The only Autobot who isn't as such allies himself with the Decepticons. How about the Autobots pretending to abandon earth and letting Decepticons murder over a thousand people and lay waste to Chicago to prove a point? This is noble and heroic in your view? Or the morally perfect Optimus Prime murdering a man after he explicitly vowed to never harm humans in his own loving words
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Jul 1, 2014 04:44
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3 posted:Even beyond just the metatextual discussion going on here, even people who like the franchise as a whole have consistently been shocked/appalled by Optimus Prime and the Autobots' behavior in the films. "GIVE ME YOUR FACE" is not something a heroic, noble entity shouts in the heat of battle, regardless of how bad the supposed villain is. PBCrunch posted:The man-made Transformers were quite disappointing. For some reason Galvatron was a complete badass but all the synthetic robots were incredibly weak. The stream-of-particles transformations were terrible, but it was much worse that these characters did not take advantage of this ability in battle at all. The first time I saw this ability, I expected to see robots that could effectively teleport away from attacks.
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Jul 1, 2014 05:07
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