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Baloogan posted:Just keep on pretending that they have no agency. How the gently caress do you have such absolutist thinking considering the absolute shithole Gulf War II made Iraq?It's both, sorry hth.
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Jul 11, 2014 20:42
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Radio Prune posted:So al-Golani of JaN has announced the creation of an Islamic emirate by the sounds of things? Hassan Hassan is tweeting out the details in English, but I'm having a hard time understanding what the hell is going on. There were rumors yesterday they were leaving Aleppo, which they denied, and new alliances coming together of non-JaN, non-ISIS forces. It's weird.
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Jul 11, 2014 20:52
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Baloogan posted:Just keep on pretending that they have no agency. Agency can only act on the circumstances given to it, and those circumstances are often largely influenced by the agency of others. It's almost like human society is a vast interconnected web of people all exercising their agency in often conflicting ways!
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Jul 11, 2014 20:59
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illrepute posted:Why would the gods want losers? Nah man, they sacrificed the winners in Ōllamaliztli. And I mean, why not? If you're gonna have an empire based on blood and slaughter, why not have feathered warriors, obsidian swords (macuahuitl in the loving house!), and thousands of festivals! cualli tonalli
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Jul 11, 2014 21:11
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MrNemo posted:It reminds me of a story back from early on Afghanistan in the 2000s where this falafel vendor was recounting how a group of Taliban pulled up in a Toyota SUV armed with Kalashnikovs and started screaming at him for selling falafel because it wasn't around in the time of the Prophet. He said that you can't really call out that kind of hypocrisy when the other guy's next response is a bullet in the back of the head. There was a story that got some press earlier in the Syrian war when a 14-year-old kid made a joke in the market, and later on he was abducted into a truck or car. A few minutes later, they dropped his dead body off in front of everyone. I can't remember the joke, but it was something like, "14 bucks? What do I look like, someone as rich as the prophet to you?" or vaguely something like that. Not only was the act of killing a child for "blasphemy" pretty terrible, but also terrible was that the joke, as originally told, was actually kinda funny.  Does anyone remember it?
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Jul 11, 2014 21:12
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I remember, but I can't think of any more details. Didn't he get decapitated? Or was that the kid who said some blasphemous phrase when he was on pain medication? I don't even know. Here's what happens if you're a kid who decides to eat on Ramadan in the glorious caliphate.  He seems to be alive, which is good because ISIS normally kills people before crucifying them if they intend for them to die, but he also seems to have been up there for quite a while.  Anyone translate the message on his chest?
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Jul 11, 2014 21:30
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FADEtoBLACK posted:ISIS is exactly what you would get if you bombed out the U.S. and it succumbed to internal conflict from armed groups. Watching that propaganda video and the poster of the video saying certain Muslims were "Muslims in name only" really hits home how we shouldn't acknowledge any political ideology based on religion and that the only time these groups function in a democracy is when the overall society is integrated and strong enough not to let them succumb to the inevitable "God wants me to kill this other dude". Nothing feels more righteous then imagining you're being forced to become violent.
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Jul 11, 2014 21:30
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The Walking Dad posted:Newish Isis propaganda vid. Amazing that they released this as some sort of recruitment tool? Who in their right mind can watch that and punch the air? I couldn't even make it past 5 mins. It's like the us military showing 'collateral damage' in schools or some thing.
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Jul 11, 2014 22:33
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Baloogan posted:Just keep on pretending that they have no agency. You're right, material conditions don't shape human beings at all. Political purges and wars don't destroy a society's intellectual reserves, bootstraps, etc.
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Jul 11, 2014 22:46
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cheerfullydrab posted:"Another round of drone strikes today on terrorist bases in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Another car bomb went off in a busy square in Boswash." Old but gold: http://www.theonion.com/articles/midwest-peace-talks-shattered-by-illinois-tollboot,484/ quote:BELVIDERE, IL–Hopes for a Midwest peace accord were dealt a severe blow Monday, when a bomb ripped through a toll booth on the I-90 Illinois Tollway. The attack, which killed six and delayed westbound traffic for hours, is believed to be the work of Iowa-based militant Lutheran extremists.
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Jul 11, 2014 23:00
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McDowell posted:You're right, material conditions don't shape human beings at all. Political purges and wars don't destroy a society's intellectual reserves, bootstraps, etc. There's a difference between understanding that, and things like thinking the most significant thing that has affected Iranian history and shaped what Iran is today is the coup installing the shah, because the US did it. The middle east is a lot more complicated than that sort of amerocentric perspective lets on. I don't blame Baloogan for posting what he did, but that's not to say outside forces don't play roles in how people and countries perceive things and act.
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Jul 11, 2014 23:51
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A nation doesn't exist in a vacuum. When the biggest threat you face is being obliterated by any number of other nations, many of whom you have absolutely no power to fight back against, everything else tends to fall to the wayside in favor of whoever appears to be the most able to mount a defense. That's not unique to an ethnic group, that's just a fact of the human condition: survival comes before every other priority. So, yeah, many nations in central/west Asia and in parts of Africa are much less progressive than many nations in more peaceful regions, because they're still concerned with fighting for their actual existences, much less for those existences to be better than they are.
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Jul 12, 2014 00:00
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Crap, looks like IS stole a march at their erstwhile Baath allies and imprisoned a bunch of them. This gives them very effective hostage to ensure compliant behaviour, and removes some pretty good Russian cards from play. http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/2014/07/08/Islamic-State-rounds-up-ex-Baathists-to-eliminate-potential-rivals-in-Iraq-s-Mosul.html It looks as if very loosely Sadamm aligned Sunni tribes were not targeted for now, but it is unsure if any outside or inside force could make these groups go up against ISIS. Russia has/had pretty good connections to some baathists, with regional tribal leaders? Not really.
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Jul 12, 2014 00:12
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Mightypeon posted:Crap, looks like IS stole a march at their erstwhile Baath allies and imprisoned a bunch of them. That has to make any ex-Baathists in the south much more wary to ally with ISIS. Much like killing any Shia troops they capture it makes them feel badass but (hopefully) makes future expansion much harder.
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Jul 12, 2014 00:16
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Volkerball posted:There's a difference between understanding that, and things like thinking the most significant thing that has affected Iranian history and shaped what Iran is today is the coup installing the shah, because the US did it. The middle east is a lot more complicated than that sort of amerocentric perspective lets on. I don't blame Baloogan for posting what he did, but that's not to say outside forces don't play roles in how people and countries perceive things and act. Iran gets hosed by random great powers on a pretty regular basis. The US was simply the last one to do it, and the US maintains the pretty outspoken intention to do so again. Russia, which had been a huge threat to Iran in the somewhat distant past, (the big change occurring during the Islamic revolution was the mass murder of the Tudeh party by the Mullahs) is nowadays pretty friendly, as is India/China. Afghanistan and Iraq are messes that may suck up Iranian assets, but despite IS propaganda, these states arent offensive threats. Arguably, placating Russia right now is cheaper then ever before. Only the USA and Israel currently remain as "Iran-shattering grave threats". That Iranian policy emphasizes and focused on those is pretty understandable.
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Jul 12, 2014 00:17
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ReV VAdAUL posted:That has to make any ex-Baathists in the south much more wary to ally with ISIS. Much like killing any Shia troops they capture it makes them feel badass but (hopefully) makes future expansion much harder. If the Russian civil War is any indication, ruthlessly "purging" your own side can have tactical and strategic advantadges. If you can reasonably expect that all other side will also commit atrocities, atrocities loose considerable amounts of their drawbacks. As Nestor Makhno showed, being the "least evil side" can actually lead to everyone regarding you as "weak" and trying to dogpile on you. That is a risk the Kurds are facing.
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Jul 12, 2014 00:20
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Mightypeon posted:If the Russian civil War is any indication, ruthlessly "purging" your own side can have tactical and strategic advantadges. If you can reasonably expect that all other side will also commit atrocities, atrocities loose considerable amounts of their drawbacks. Surely the Kurds have a long way to go to look weaker the Baghdad faction? The Peshmerga have stood and fought will the "Iraqi" army has run away.
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Jul 12, 2014 00:25
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The Bagdad faction has 40% of Iraqs population. Its just that the corrupt elite on top really love their current position. They also have backing from a very very interested regional power (Iran) and a Great power (Russia). They also do not have the opposition of any Great Powers, and they could conceivably ally with the Kurds. What is interesting is if current rumors about Iran going around the Maliki gouverment to arm/train Shia militias directly are true, and if yes, wether they are truely going around Maliki or are just giving him plausible deniability. Iran has btw. clearly indicated that they would accept a replacement for Maliki (but not actually Chalabi, that was a mixture of a practical joke and an olive branch to the USA), and may come up with one such replacement themselfs. What they are propably afraid of is a "Yanukovich replacement bad timing" effect. In Ukraine, Russia was not very impressed by Yanukovych, and began sounding out alternative candidates. Then Maidan happened, Yanukovach got ousted by force and Russia didnt have an alternative ready. IS could make major gains in the propably unusually chaotic "transition period" from Maliki to whoever will be in charge after him, fear of such gains is likely a factor that is keeping him in power. This adds an unfortunate dynamic. If Maliki wants to persist, he has to signal to Iran, Russia and other interested parties that any transition away from him would be ridiculously messy (Yanukovych actually did that in Ukraine too) and thus "contraindicated". He can do such "signalling" by greatly degrading the quantity and quality of available possible replacements to him by innovative and propably kinetic means. This is a big problem, but it is kind of a "luxury problem".
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Jul 12, 2014 01:36
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Does ISIS have a manifesto anywhere? Do they have any opinions on Jews/Israel? Who is the current highest ranking ISIS person?
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Jul 12, 2014 02:36
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The Iraqi border was drawn out of the British colonial masters asses anyway. I say let it split into 3 counties (or at lease 3 very loose confederates) and let them mind their own business. IMO Iran is the least of the evils in the Islamic world.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:00
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What I don't understand about ISIS is how can anyone be apart of such insanity? I could get killing PoW's but children for eating on religious holiday is quite insane.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:08
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Tab8715 posted:What I don't understand about ISIS is how can anyone be apart of such insanity? I could get killing PoW's but children for eating on religious holiday is quite insane. They didn't kill that kid. Just strung him up for a few hours. This is evidently an important distinction due to the rampant media bias in portraying ISIS as terrible.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:13
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Volkerball posted:They didn't kill that kid. Just strung him up for a few hours. This is evidently an important distinction due to the rampant media bias in portraying ISIS as terrible. 'Stringing someone up' for any offense is something I would put in the 'unacceptable' category, wouldn't you?
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Jul 12, 2014 03:25
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Full Battle Rattle posted:'Stringing someone up' for any offense is something I would put in the 'unacceptable' category, wouldn't you? Yeah. Yep. loving twitter jihadists. 
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Jul 12, 2014 03:33
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Volkerball posted:Yeah. Yep. loving twitter jihadists. I'm sorry, I don't follow.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:36
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Volkerball posted:Yeah. Yep. loving twitter jihadists.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:37
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Full Battle Rattle posted:I'm sorry, I don't follow. People were getting upset on twitter because the picture of that kid was labeled as a ten year old who was crucified. According to the ISIS sympathizers, he was actually 16, and "crucified" was the improper term because it implied he was dead. This reinforced the circlejerk that they are just moral crusaders who the media demonizes because reasons. No self awareness at all. quote:Shami Witness @ShamiWitness 5h Phew. Almost thought it was reprehensible there for a second.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:42
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To be unreasonably fair to the islamic state, there IS a pretty huge difference between crucifying a ten year old and corporeally punishing a 16 year old.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:52
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'This is a warning because we're new. The next time...'
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Jul 12, 2014 03:53
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Miltank posted:To be unreasonably fair to the islamic state, there IS a pretty huge difference between crucifying a ten year old and corporeally punishing a 16 year old. Yeah, and hacking your leg off with a saws-all isn't nearly as bad as leaping head first into a wood-chipper, but neither is particularly admirable.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:55
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Miltank posted:To be unreasonably fair to the islamic state, there IS a pretty huge difference between crucifying a ten year old and corporeally punishing a 16 year old. JT Jag fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 03:58
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Yeah, and hacking your leg off with a saws-all isn't nearly as bad as leaping head first into a wood-chipper, but neither is particularly admirable. Not to mention they have executed several kids before, and force other kids to watch, so it's not like it clears their reputation one way or the other. It's a really stupid point of contention on their part.
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Jul 12, 2014 03:59
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Every time I open this thread ISIS does something new and hosed up. Congratulations, ISIS, for not doing the thing that's insanely hosed up and just going with ordinary hosed up.
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Jul 12, 2014 04:06
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Every time I open this thread ISIS does something new and hosed up
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Jul 12, 2014 04:12
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Every time I open this thread ISIS does something new and hosed up. Congratulations, ISIS, for not doing the thing that's insanely hosed up and just going with ordinary hosed up. They're the sort of group you'd get lambasted for writing about in a novel for being too unrealistic.
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Jul 12, 2014 04:39
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Do we have any evidence about his age besides say-so on twitter? Because I'd definitely guess closer to 10 than 16 from that photo.
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Jul 12, 2014 04:47
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Vermain posted:They're the sort of group you'd get lambasted for writing about in a novel for being too unrealistic. The zeitgeist kind of feels like a Call of Duty game, doesn't it? It could even start with the buried headline of 300 Special Forces guy going to Iraq. As a matter of fact it seems a little bit like the plot to ghosts.
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Jul 12, 2014 05:11
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Full Battle Rattle posted:The zeitgeist kind of feels like a Call of Duty game, doesn't it? It could even start with the buried headline of 300 Special Forces guy going to Iraq.   
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Jul 12, 2014 05:16
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Call of Duty 4 was the last good Call of Duty
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Jul 12, 2014 05:18
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 JT Jag posted:Call of Duty 4 was the last good Call of Duty definitely.
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Jul 12, 2014 05:18
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