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With all of the characters having Harmon's trademark stammer, I was convinced that he was doing the majority of the voices until the credits rolled. Loaded up the leaked scripts, but I haven't done more than skim them. Even if Capaldi pulls off something closer to 1, 4, or 9 than Tennant and Smith's Manic Pixie Dream Doctors, he'll be fighting an uphill battle with the material. Oh well. Doctor Who is kind of like TMNT in that way. Even the bad stuff is better than nothing just to watch the train derail and go boom.
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Jul 11, 2014 13:30
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| # ? May 11, 2024 12:53 |
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So those who were speculating that it wasn't only the scripts that were leaked were correct. They're incomplete workprints, but still. Somebody is getting mega fired.
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Jul 12, 2014 18:07
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HD DAD posted:So those who were speculating that it wasn't only the scripts that were leaked were correct. They're incomplete workprints, but still. It's only episode 1, though.
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Jul 12, 2014 18:22
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The BBC has really increased the effects budget not my image. twoot fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 20:05
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Marcelo Camargo, we hardly knew ye. and now you'll probably be found hung from your back porch or whatever.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:10
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I thought it was loving stupid that Moffat wrote the T-Rex that big and shrugged it off. Remember when this show used to be vaguely educational instead of relying on nothing but cheap loving jokes.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:10
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Deep Breath trip report: mostly great, the really loving stupid moments are relegated to just the Paternoster Gang, thankfully. Capaldi excellent, Clara actually has definable characterization, and the banter between 12 and the droid is really good. Getting major T Bakes vibes from Capaldi, actually.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:36
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PriorMarcus posted:I thought it was loving stupid that Moffat wrote the T-Rex that big and shrugged it off. Remember when this show used to be vaguely educational instead of relying on nothing but cheap loving jokes. You mean 1965? 
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Jul 12, 2014 20:54
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Oh man, this is really bad. The most entertaining part of it is how funny the unfinished CGI looks. Capaldi is very good a lot of the time, but still not enough to save it, and whether it's a post-regen thing or not he still reads some lines an awful lot like Smith did.
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Jul 12, 2014 21:05
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I thought it was actually good. Except for the parts with the loving retarded trio, but they've been a problem for a while.
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Jul 12, 2014 21:11
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Also are there still going to be people who deny Moffat's misogyny after the Clara egomania/control freak poo poo? Because that's never been a part of her personality that we've seen (it applies way more to Amy, if anything), and seems to just be another example of him thinking of women as having one of only a few different types of personalities, all somewhat devious. Plus Missy but I already mentioned her edit: "We never call the police, we should start." <<< legitimate actually funny line Escobarbarian fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 21:24
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That episode was dire enough to almost entirely snuff out my enthusiasm for the new Capaldi season. Not because of him but just because if this episode is an indicator of what the rest of the season will be like it's going to be unwatchable. I did really enjoy the Doctor and Clara's conversation in the restaurant, and Capaldi's dialogue after the amnesia bit was dropped, so I'm sure he'll be fun to watch, but really, that was the sole highlight.
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Jul 13, 2014 02:25
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Reminder that this episode was directed by Ben Wheatley, a fantastic independent British director who's work includes Kill List, Sightseers, and A Field In England. Not that you would be able to tell because it's indistinguishable from almost any other episode of this stupid show.
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Jul 13, 2014 05:35
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Bown posted:he still reads some lines an awful lot like Smith did. Yeah I picked up on this too, although I'm more of the opinion that the dialogue felt like it was written for Smith rather than Capaldi. When he does occasionally get to break free he's really on point. I'm still excited for Capaldi, but I really hope the show does better for him as time goes on. Sinestro posted:Except for the parts with the loving retarded trio, but they've been a problem for a while. They are the worst. They really feel like poor attempts at aping Joss Whedon's group dynamic with a splash of Tina Belcher's Erotic Friend Fiction thrown in for good measure. I really wish they'd just get their own spin off already so I wouldn't have to see them anymore.
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Jul 13, 2014 06:13
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My personal review of all 5 of the scripts Episode 1: Rating 3/5 Summary: Doctor ends up in London to meet team Strax and brings Clara as well as a T-Rex along for the ride. The Doctor has trouble adjusting and decides to be a homeless bum while Clara contemplates what the hell she's doing with her life as well as her relationship with the Doctor. Both Clara and the Doctor are tricked by "the Doctor's Girlfriend (not River)" into going into a den of Clockwork Robots who are harvesting organs to repair their ship in order to get to the "Promise Land". The Doctor beats the living crap out of them, saves London, and everything ends happily. Review: For a script that introduces a new doctor, I have to admit this is one of the better ones. That's not saying much, but at least I can say it's not terrible. I know this scripts getting a lot of flack for the T-Rex running around, but I have to admit it sort of works for me. It's a good red herring that distracts from the real mystery of what is lurking around London at the time, and adds some credibility to the villain. (How many things have the balls to kill a T-Rex) It also nicely introduces a new doctor, brings the Clockwork Robots back in a non-stupid way, and has some really nice scenes like in the diner. Also it's always good to bring back the London Detective duo as well as Strax. But most importantly in this script, the villain is a bit threatening. They really do emphasis how inhuman the clockwork robots are, as well as the scale of their murder, and what it takes to defeat them. In many ways, the Clockwork Robots are in this script what the Cyberman should be. Also, while I think people are right that this Doctor feels like Matt Smith, they are definitely writing towards the darker portions of both Smith and Tennant. This Doctor is portrayed as something of a sociopath, unable to realize that abhorrent wearing a human face is and seems to disregard life in general now. It's going to be interesting how it plays out. What keeps this script from being great is hum much of Moffats bs is bleeding through, which is getting really old now. The whole "Doctor's Girlfriend" subplot introduced is utter bullshit and is kind of a cop-out after building up the whole "restore Gallifrey" plot. It's River Song back again, except with some weird "Promise Land" plot line attached. Oh and yeah, 2nd everyone else on how "misogynist" the treatment of Clara is getting. Still should be a fun episode. Episode 2: 0/5 Rating Summary: The Doctor is shrunk in size along with Clara and a team of expendable humans. Their mission is to go and repair a Dalek who's good and damaged. They succeed, but the repairs make the Dalek evil again. The Doctor then manages to make the Dalek good again, and the Dalek goes off to kill a bunch of Daleks. Oh and apparently the entire Galaxy, possibly the universe, is fighting a massive Dalek invasion that threatens to destroy all creation but the threat of a new Dalek Empire and the Doctor doing something about it doesn't seem to come into play. Review: Wow this script is friggen awful. It's like the writers went "ok Episode 1 has some really dark moments, so Episode 2 should be lighter. We need the Daleks in really quick so... lets do an episode where we miniaturize the Doctor and send him inside a Dalek! Then we can be dark, quirky, and have daleks." You have the Doctor acting like an outright sociopath where the only people he legitimately tries to save are himself, Clara, and the Dalek. Not the humans though who aren't Clara, they're expendable. Then you have the idiotic premise of the episode where they make a huge deal about the idea of turning Daleks good and how it's the one real shot at stopping the massive Dalek invasion happening, they find out that all that's keeping the Daleks evil is their cybernetic parts which purges memories that would make them good, and then it's all "well see you later." "Good luck with that losing war with the Daleks so the Daleks can destroy all life in the Galaxy then start rebuilding their doomsday device to destroy all of reality. Me and Clara have sexy adventures to go on." I'd go as far as to say this script reads like someone's bad fan fiction they wrote and no one had the heart to tell them it wasn't that great. It's crap, it's terrible, I can't seem them pulling this off and making it work without some incredible acting. Episode 3: 2.5/5 Summary: Doctor and Clara travel back in time so the Doctor can prove Robin Hood doesn't exist. However, somehow Robin does exist. Also there's a Sheriff of Nottingham who's leading an army of Robot Knights. Is Robin Hood Real? Can the Doctor stop a bunch of robots from repairing their ship with Gold and Slave Labor, just like he did in the first episode? How long can Clara be this useful and competent? These questions are effectively the entire episode. Review: Robots, again?! More of this "Promise Land stuff"? And we are going to have poo poo like "The Doctor and Robin splitting each other's arrows and Robin shooting a golden arrow to fix a spaceships engines long enough so it explodes in outer space?!" Like WTF. Now what sort of redeems this episode in my mind is that the dialogue between the Doctor and Robin is quite good. Also the secondary theme of the debate of if Robin Hood existed as well as the mystery of what is the Robin Hood they're dealing with is well done and interesting. And I have to say I like Clara's portrayal here as here she seems like someone who is useful, intelligent, and can take some initiative. Qualities that felt forced in the writing last season. It could be a good episode depending on the directing and acting, and there's definitely a shining gem in there, but there's a lot of crap covering that gem and I'm not sure if it's going to be cleared off in the final product. Episode 4: 5/5 Summary: The Doctor comes to the conclusion that there might be a species which exists everywhere, but has evolved to stay perfectly hidden. Driven by his curiosity and his own fear, him and Clara go on a quest to figure out what these things really are. I'd write a more indepth summary, but this is pretty much the episode. And it's brilliant. Review: This script is fantastic and I really hope it isn't screwed up. Hell, I'd say it's the best Doctor Who script I've seen since the new series started. It takes a simple concept like "is there a monster under my bed, or in the closet", this primal fear in people that there's something hiding in the dark, and turns it into a brilliant examination into the human psyche. It would have been really easy to turn this into somekind of crappy monster hunt, but they really did an amazing job of ramping up the psychology as well as the potential for building up fear and mystery. Also there's the subplot of Clara and her growth into something that isn't Amy II. The whole angle of her life outside the Tardis, her independence, and the humanity she is exhibiting is really great and can really make this a great script. I just hope the actors and the director can pull this off. Episode 5: 4/5 Summary: The Doctor, Clara, and two other people lose their recent memories and are sent on a mission by "The Architect" to rob the most secure bank in the entire universe. The bank has numerous sensors and automated defenses, but it's primary defense is a Teller, a psychic being that can detect guilt and liquifies brains. Review: Ah a nice fun heist script that seems intent on sucking up this season's special effects budget. It's great, it's fun, it's weird, and I like the villains. The Teller seems legitimately scary and I can just picture in my mind how terrifying it will look. The set-up is well done, and I have to say the whole "impenetrable bank" along with the memory loss really does give a feel of wonder and mystery. My main complaint about this episode is that Clara is back to being useless and a damsel in distress. She doesn't really do anything in the script except almost get eaten and befriend Psi. In fact, they could have written her out of this episode and it would have been a better script for it because then we could have developed the doctor's "heist team" more. Still, it promises to be a cgi feast for the eyes and it's fun, so I'm looking forward to it. Shadoer fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Jul 13, 2014 |
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Jul 13, 2014 06:17
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Stop spoilering things in the SPOILER thread. 
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Jul 13, 2014 06:38
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Stop spoilering things in the SPOILER thread. Fine, spoilers removed.
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Jul 13, 2014 07:05
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Shadoer posted:For a script that introduces a new doctor, I have to admit this is one of the better ones. That's not saying much Going by generally accepted poo poo, which also conveniently also mostly lines up with my opinion: In the bad column we have: The Twin Dilemma Time and the Rani In the mediocre column we have: The Christmas Invasion (it's better than The Twin Dilemma and Time and the Rani by a long way, but not actually particularly good so it goes in here by default) In the good column: Eleventh Hour Rose An Unearthly Child/100,000 BC (because of the caveman stuff) Castrovalva Robot In the loving amazing wow jesus a hundred years Rick and Morty dot com column: The Power of the Daleks Spearhead from Space "Post-Regeneration stories are bad" is a big fan myth. Shadoer posted:brings the Clockwork Robots back in a non-stupid way Let's not go nuts Shadoer posted:Also it's always good to bring back the London Detective Trio as well as Strax. Oh ok we've gone nuts (and Strax is part of the trio)
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Jul 13, 2014 10:39
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Going by generally accepted poo poo, which also conveniently also mostly lines up with my opinion: Yup those were terrible quote:
Ok let's make something clear here. Rose, Castrovalva, The Christmas Invasion, and Robot were only pulled off by the sheer power of good acting as well as special effects. Otherwise the scripts themselves were pretty terrible. quote:
Ok yes, both The Power of the Daleks and Spearhead from Space were friggen brilliant. quote:Let's not go nuts Hey if they are going to bring them back, this was the least stupid way to do it. In fact, this made more sense then the last time they showed up where they couldn't repair their ship, but they could make windows in time to stalk Madame de Pompadour. quote:Oh ok we've gone nuts (and Strax is part of the trio) Oh come on, the trio are funny. And if you are going to have a plot where Clara is going to deal with the Doctor regenerating, it's better for her to talk with some established characters than someone random. And yeah, I made a grammar mistake. Sorry.
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Jul 13, 2014 10:52
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Ok let's make something clear here. The trio are terrible and anyone who likes them is an idiot. (subjectivity: it's a thing!)
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Jul 13, 2014 11:05
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Bown posted:Ok let's make something clear here. The trio are terrible and anyone who likes them is an idiot. How about a compromise. Lady Lizard and her lesbian assassin servant girlfriend are terrible, but it's made up for by the awesomeness that is Strax.
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Jul 13, 2014 11:13
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Shadoer posted:How about a compromise. Strax is the god drat worst of them, a one-joke character whose joke got tired long ago. At least the others have a tiny amount of characterisation.
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Jul 13, 2014 11:14
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Shadoer posted:Hey if they are going to bring them back, this was the least stupid way to do it. If you're going to get someone to kick you in the balls,
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Jul 13, 2014 11:16
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Noxville posted:Strax is the god drat worst of them, a one-joke character whose joke got tired long ago. At least the others have a tiny amount of characterisation. I disagree, I love that one-joke character, and I hope he keeps poping up from time to time until he finally dies gloriously. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nZxShriR0Y MrL_JaKiri posted:If you're going to get someone to kick you in the balls, Oh come on, the scenes described with the Clockwork Robots in this script look pretty good and creepy. Done right, they can be pretty friggen awesome.
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Jul 13, 2014 11:21
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Strax is horrendous. Is he really the kind of character people watch this show for? The "LOL he falls down behind Vestra and Jenny!!!!" bit in Deep Breath is the least funny part of an episode already devoid of laughs.
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Jul 13, 2014 11:34
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Bown posted:Strax is horrendous. Is he really the kind of character people watch this show for? The "LOL he falls down behind Vestra and Jenny!!!!" bit in Deep Breath is the least funny part of an episode already devoid of laughs. Look, I'm not saying he deserves to be elevated to companion status or get his own damned show. He's just funny because he's a good guy who effectively wants to murder everyone like HK-47. I guess it's personal taste.
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Jul 13, 2014 11:47
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Shadoer posted:Oh come on, the scenes described with the Clockwork Robots in this script look pretty good and creepy. Done right, they can be pretty friggen awesome. Moffat loves and I mean really loves reusing material. Every single story of his from the RTD era now has some stuff that's reappeared. But even above and beyond that, he reuses material in a way that makes it kind of pointless to have reused it in the first place. eg. look at the Weeping Angels. In Blink they were less of a thinking antagonist and more of a sort of video game puzzle natural force kind of deal. This worked well for the story, as it was about getting to a simple and elegant solution. When they come back this simplicity doesn't work any more, so Moffat is forced into changing all the rules. Now the Angels aren't forced into turning to stone (thus making them forever alone), they do it voluntarily as a defense mechanism. Adios pathos. Now you can't even look at an Angel, because they'll turn you into one (or something). Now they kill people by snapping necks. Why? As Moffat has to give them the ability to speak so he has them do it through a corpse, which wouldn't exist if they were the same as in Blink. And the end of the episode isn't a simple solution to a puzzle, it's just a big sign saying HERE'S THE ARC, MOFOS with no actual specificity to the problem at hand. And now the clockwork robots. Are they operating in the same way as in Girl in the Fireplace? No. GitF had a bit of a crazy spin on "robots take things too literally", trying to fix their ship by getting spare parts from someone in the past with the same name. These clockwork robots are trying to repair themselves, and just happen to be from the sister ship of the GitF lot. Does that mean that the ships have this as a standard design response? That kinds of undermines the "what crazy poo poo is happening here, jesus" part of the first one. But yeah the point is that they're not repairing the ship, they're trying to keep themselves going with human parts for some reason. The only real link is "using human parts for stuff". But that's not unique to the clockwork robots. The cybermen have done that, the daleks have done that, every fucker has done that. Why do you need the clockwork robots? This is round peg square hole stuff. Hell, use Invader Zim. He steals organs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnOBIwi9gLM and is more interesting than the robots.
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Jul 13, 2014 12:27
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I quite like Strax and I don't know why. Maybe because it's quite such a stupid joke.
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Jul 13, 2014 12:27
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He's definitely one of the more entertaining parts, but....Let's Kill Hitler was entertaining too.
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Jul 13, 2014 12:29
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Bown posted:He's definitely one of the more entertaining parts, but....Let's Kill Hitler was entertaining too. MrL_JaKiri posted:Let's not go nuts
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Jul 13, 2014 12:29
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Entertaining in this case not meaning 'good'. Good Man Goes to War is still my least favourite Moffat story because even though it's nowhere near the stupidest one it's by far the most boring. The last 10 minutes of Smith's last episode were entertaining as hell even though they were total poo poo. The Empty Hearse was entertaining even as it made me want to strangle everybody involved. edit: I guess what I'm saying is a lot of Moffat's writing is entertaining to me in a "go to a midnight screening and throw spoons at the screen" type way. Escobarbarian fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Jul 13, 2014 |
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Jul 13, 2014 12:33
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So can we accept Strax as "entertaining" as opposed to "good" then? Are we ok with this?
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Jul 13, 2014 13:30
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Shadoer posted:So can we accept Strax as "entertaining" as opposed to "good" then? No, he is neither. He may have raised a half smile on his first appearance, but even that mild amusement has long faded.
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Jul 13, 2014 13:33
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marktheando posted:No, he is neither. He may have raised a half smile on his first appearance, but even that mild amusement has long faded. Well I guess I'll just have to accept that I have poor taste then and my enjoyment of Strax is inherently wrong.
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Jul 13, 2014 13:43
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Shadoer posted:Well I guess I'll just have to accept that I have poor taste then and my enjoyment of Strax is inherently wrong. Good, I am glad.
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Jul 13, 2014 13:50
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I wanted Strax to be the new companion back when i first heard about him, ANYTHING to stop the never-ending torrent of bubbly, flirty, hot and confused girl companions. I can't even look at Clara without getting frustrated anymore. Tho to be fair it's kind of a tradition i guess, but still there were male companions and robot dogs and poo poo before.
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Jul 13, 2014 14:57
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I didn't mind the trio when they first appeared. Then they appeared again... and again... and again...
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Jul 13, 2014 15:09
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Dongattack posted:I wanted Strax to be the new companion back when i first heard about him, ANYTHING to stop the never-ending torrent of bubbly, flirty, hot and confused girl companions. I can't even look at Clara without getting frustrated anymore. Tho to be fair it's kind of a tradition i guess, but still there were male companions and robot dogs and poo poo before. Its almost like Rory wasn't a companion for three years.
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Jul 13, 2014 15:22
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Irish Joe posted:Its almost like Rory wasn't a companion for three years. Rory was just Amy Ponds coatrack.
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Jul 13, 2014 15:27
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| # ? May 11, 2024 12:53 |
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So I and another Goon watched it and... Man, I miss RTD. Man, I miss Season 5. MAN I miss Pip and...OK no I don't. This is easily one of the worst Doctor introductions in recent history. Obviously not the worst, but that would require human sacrifices and hell fire beaming directly in your eyes. The most entertaining thing about the whole mess WAS the unfinished CGI, though I barely even noticed the unfinished effects on the main robot dude. I can go into so many reasons why I did not like this, point out all of the flaws, all of the bullshit that I personally did not care for. But I won't, because I instead will just focus on one thing, the core of the villain plot. Why were these Clockwork Robots? Why couldn't they have been Cybermen? Imagine for a moment, a Cybership crashing into Prehistoric Earth (HAH, as if that'd ever happen!) and the Cybermen MUZZZT SURVIVE no matter what and the Cyber Leader eventually gets it into his head that there must be some kind of paradise that he has to survive to reach. So he starts to reverse cybernize himself, taking human parts and replacing his failing machinery with them. It'd be a Cyberman working BACKWARDS out of desperation to stay alive. Wouldn't that have made more sense and been far more interesting than the BorgMen we have now, play more with WHY they're Cybermen to begin with, and keep us from bringing back a one note villain group who really shouldn't possibly be able to come back ON TOP of the ludicrously wasted potential of a villain who is literally MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD just getting killed off like nothing? This really seemed like, with some polish, this should have been the big return script for the Cybermen. That and I really do have to ask why don't these robits look ANYTHING like the original robits? I have tons of problems with this episode, and I highly doubt some finished paintwork on the CGI and a dash of color are going to solve them. Capaldi is drowning under all of the bullshit, only able to stand out because of what a good actor he is. He gets about three or four scenes that are done well- it's like playing darts blind folded at this point. EVENTUALLY you're going to hit the bulls-eye, but Goddamn is your arm going to get tired before that happens. On a good note, I will say I love the ambiguity/leaning towards the idea that the Doctor is the one to push the robot out of the...human skin hot air balloon fuckyou. I love that it didn't get brought up again or questioned by Clara. And then River Song 2.0 shows up and shits all over it a bit. Just a bit. Like she has irritable bowels. Maybe that's why she can't stop dancing. Moffat please go away. Please.
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Jul 13, 2014 16:31
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