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That suggests a question to me: do toxic airspergs exist in the Battlefield series? If not, why not? (And which of those reasons can be adapted to Planetside?)
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Jul 13, 2014 20:19
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Yes they do. Battlefield even makes it just as bad to get into by locking things that are 100% vital to your success behind killing these airspergs.
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Jul 13, 2014 20:21
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NihilCredo posted:That suggests a question to me: do toxic airspergs exist in the Battlefield series? If not, why not? (And which of those reasons can be adapted to Planetside?)
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Jul 13, 2014 20:23
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I remember in battlefield 2 the jets (and sometimes the choppers) would agree not to fight each other so they could farm the poo poo out of the ground peasants.
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Jul 13, 2014 20:26
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NihilCredo posted:That suggests a question to me: do toxic airspergs exist in the Battlefield series? If not, why not? (And which of those reasons can be adapted to Planetside?) Yes, they exist. The latest iteration of BF4 has far less of them except in the case of the Little Bird helicopter, which is only as strong as it is because a squad allows in-air respawns and in-air repairing, making it a flying anti-personnel tank. There are otherwise practically no airspergs now, and have very little effect on the flow of combat. The reason for that, I think, is because anti-air power is incredibly strong. If the mobile AA can see you, it can easily touch your aircraft in a few punishing ways. Also, BF's version of lolpods (hydras) aren't nearly as vicious and splashy vs infantry. Their ammo pools are also much smaller. The problem, I suppose, SOE faces, is by making AA very powerful, it would push aircraft right out of the game. Aircraft can only shine when a team makes a concerted effort to ignore them and AA in PS2 is pushed hard toward point defense (ex: Skyguard velocity is very low, Burster accuracy was nerfed) in an attempt to push aircraft away from close ranged A2G... and it kinda worked. Aircraft are more or less untouchable from the ground if they go high altitude, leaving ESFs to pick up the slack. I don't really do much A2A stuff in BF though. Erata fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jul 13, 2014 |
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Jul 13, 2014 20:29
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Airspergs in BF4 are primarily the type that concern themselves solely with shooting down planes. They'll strafe poo poo occasionally, but they're mostly focused on killing planes. Why? Because they get torn to shreds if they miscalculate and attack a defended pile of nerds on the ground. If you don't know where the MAA is in BF4, you will die horrifically and very, very quickly, often by having the plane disabled and then you slam into a mountain. As they're proper airspergs, they consider this dishonorable so they just focus on making GBS threads on air. Since there's only, usually, around 4 jets maximum (1 air superiority "stealth" jet, and one ground attack jet per team), they're not a huge problem. The problem comes when DICE forgets that most of the people that play the game aren't super autist pilots and locks something that is useful for exactly zero pilots behind getting in a plane. That's when people make servers solely to grind out the assignment in order to get that unlock and then, for their own sanity, forget that planes exist.
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Jul 13, 2014 20:34
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Removing the reverse maneuver and making flak debuff a planes control surfaces so you may survive flak but you wont just ignore it because your now struggling to control your plane.
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Jul 13, 2014 20:40
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dear guys which is the best of the TR heavy assault weapons for general purpose killery?
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Jul 13, 2014 20:45
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FirstPersonShitter posted:dear guys which is the best of the TR heavy assault weapons for general purpose killery? Yes. No, that's literally the answer. TR gun? Yes. All of them.
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Jul 13, 2014 20:48
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FirstPersonShitter posted:dear guys which is the best of the TR heavy assault weapons for general purpose killery? Carv  armistice + resistshield + nade bandolier with concs and medpacks (I use regen packs and love them but goonpinon is against me).
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Jul 13, 2014 20:52
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Arghy posted:Removing the reverse maneuver and making flak debuff a planes control surfaces so you may survive flak but you wont just ignore it because your now struggling to control your plane. This...actually sounds like a good idea I think? Maybe just for ESFs, they're small and light and I can't see a Space Whale being buffeted too much by flak
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Jul 13, 2014 20:55
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They should cater to the airspergs. Give them a continent that is 95% water with a single little island in the middle that is a knock off of Wake Island. Warpgate gives a natural +100 air resource tick. Maybe the warpgates look like a crude aircraft carrier instead of a warpgate. Have little permanent drop pod spawns on the corners of the island for people to grind on the island at during cooldowns. PS2 Wake Island with 62km of uninterrupted airspace would be a lot of fun and a natural roach motel for the e-Bushido types.
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Jul 13, 2014 20:59
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Arghy posted:Removing the reverse maneuver and making flak debuff a planes control surfaces so you may survive flak but you wont just ignore it because your now struggling to control your plane. Removing the reverse maneuver is seriously the best thing they could do for the air game. That one thing confounds the poo poo out of new pilots and makes ESFs into super unintuitive things that people just can't be good at without a lot of practice. Making ESFs more similar to flying games people might otherwise be familiar with would be a big step in the right direction.
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Jul 13, 2014 21:19
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Erata posted:The problem, I suppose, SOE faces, is by making AA very powerful, it would push aircraft right out of the game. Oh, and that would be AWFUL.  . .. ... ....Oh, sorry, you actually meant that'd be a bad thing?
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23
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Nookovian-Red posted:They should cater to the airspergs. Give them a continent that is 95% water with a single little island in the middle that is a knock off of Wake Island. Warpgate gives a natural +100 air resource tick. Maybe the warpgates look like a crude aircraft carrier instead of a warpgate. Have little permanent drop pod spawns on the corners of the island for people to grind on the island at during cooldowns. This would for real be a fantastic and really quickly implementable idea for a battle island, especially if battle islands are gonna be the interstitial areas gating the three-way continents. Can't wait for SOE to not do it!
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Jul 13, 2014 21:25
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Lassitude posted:Removing the reverse maneuver is seriously the best thing they could do for the air game. That one thing confounds the poo poo out of new pilots and makes ESFs into super unintuitive things that people just can't be good at without a lot of practice. Making ESFs more similar to flying games people might otherwise be familiar with would be a big step in the right direction. I agree, it'd be refreshing and hilarious to use actual air combat maneuvers to confuse the poo poo out of airspergs. Honestly I think ESFs would benefit from having NO hover capability. They'd be tough to shoot down but they'd struggle to farm against infantry.
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Jul 13, 2014 21:26
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They should either fly like planes, or fly like helicopters, instead of flying like otherworldly bullshit machines that only superspergs can actually fly and everyone else just clumsily bounces into trees with.
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Jul 13, 2014 21:42
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FirstPersonShitter posted:dear guys which is the best of the TR heavy assault weapons for general purpose killery? Depends on the type of fight. Close quarters? Either the MSW-R or the Armistice. Mid range? The CARV is fine, I'm about ~900 kills deep in the Bull with a grip/comp/2x/spa right now and having fun with it. Long range, the TMG-50 for sure. Generally I try to bait mid and close fights with TR guns, they're not really tuned for long-range accuracy (unless you like mag dumping and hoping the RNG favors you.) The TMG is the one exception to that statement.
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Jul 13, 2014 21:42
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o muerte posted:Depends on the type of fight. Close quarters? Either the MSW-R or the Armistice. Mid range? The CARV is fine, I'm about ~900 kills deep in the Bull with a grip/comp/2x/spa right now and having fun with it. Long range, the TMG-50 for sure. And the TMG is literally worse than its other faction equivalents (Saw S, Flare)  I like the Rhino for range. You keep making want to try the Bull soon though. MSW is one of the best LMGs in the game though. 750rpm (fastest for LMGs) with Adv Laser, SPA, and its super controllable. Grip it and its good at range. Think an Orion, but better, since .75ADS is moot once you hit F and it trades off a lot for that one benefit.
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Jul 13, 2014 21:54
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Shockeh posted:Oh, and that would be AWFUL. It wouldn't be that bad haha, but what would become of the beloved battle galaxy!? 
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Jul 13, 2014 22:14
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hailthefish posted:They should either fly like planes, or fly like helicopters, instead of flying like otherworldly bullshit machines that only superspergs can actually fly and everyone else just clumsily bounces into trees with. They can be both, kinda. The game doesn't have runways, so being able to hit B and turn off jet mode and allow the plane to hover in order to land/use air pads would be reasonable. But yeah, I'd like to see the planes control like planes in actual combat myself.
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Jul 13, 2014 22:31
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I don't. This game having a unique flight model is probably one of the best things about it.
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Jul 13, 2014 22:33
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The issue is that there's a class of people playing that make it very not fun to fly because of the model and how much they've mastered it and that's all they do. I like how things fly in this game, but if I don't get shot down leaving the warpgate someone ganks me after I've shot down someone else.
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Jul 13, 2014 22:35
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Ringo Star Get posted:I agree, it'd be refreshing and hilarious to use actual air combat maneuvers to confuse the poo poo out of airspergs. Honestly I think ESFs would benefit from having NO hover capability. They'd be tough to shoot down but they'd struggle to farm against infantry. Hovering/Vertical Thrust should consume afterburner fuel. If you hover over an area spamming rocketpods, you can't quickly escape when you get in trouble. Reverse maneuver will leave you empty.
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Jul 13, 2014 22:36
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Away all Goats posted:I don't. I think the idea that flying being fun is attached to flying being bizarre and unintuitive is wrong. If they made the ESFs fly closer to something like Crimson Skies I think it'd be pretty unlikely that it'd be less fun. Maybe less fun for the spergs who've been flying for over a year and log in mainly to dominate the poo poo out of new pilots, but not less fun for the majority.
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Jul 13, 2014 22:44
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Away all Goats posted:I don't. Says the lone man in the room realizing that all that he holds dear will be rendered moot when everyone doesn't need to spend 60 hours in a stupid plane to master 1 stupid maneuver that decides all battles.
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Jul 13, 2014 23:09
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Horizontal Tree posted:And the TMG is literally worse than its other faction equivalents (Saw S, Flare) You really should try the Bull, it's the fastest reloading option and the closest to an AR. It gets poo poo on in cqc by anyone who can aim and is using a close range gun though (gently caress you AC,) so there's that.
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Jul 13, 2014 23:23
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NihilCredo posted:That suggests a question to me: do toxic airspergs exist in the Battlefield series? If not, why not? (And which of those reasons can be adapted to Planetside?) "Career" video game pilots owning everything on the map started with BF 1942. It's absolutely the original skygod-farming-ground-peasant multiplayer game. BF2 had it the worst in regards to balance, and since then it's fluctuated with every game, but it all began with Battlefield 1942.
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Jul 13, 2014 23:32
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folgore posted:"Career" video game pilots owning everything on the map started with BF 1942. It's absolutely the original skygod-farming-ground-peasant multiplayer game. BF2 had it the worst in regards to balance, and since then it's fluctuated with every game, but it all began with Battlefield 1942.  I want to know the history of Autism Chariots.
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Jul 13, 2014 23:36
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Goddamn i just cant get over how awesome the reaper/troq is--what is the VS equivalent to these amazing guns?
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Jul 13, 2014 23:46
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A way that I could see the Valkyrie working in a transport role is if SOE allowed players to equip a module that works similarly to the Wraith module for the Flash: have it last longer, disable the craft's armaments when equipped* and call it the "Phantom" to have another Planetside 1 callback. *so that you cannot have a gunship that can suddenly uncloak behind a tank and alpha strike it radintorov fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jul 13, 2014 |
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Jul 13, 2014 23:48
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Croccers posted:Tell me more All you really need to know is that in 1942, ground-based AA existed solely in the form of stationary flak cannons that spawned in static locations throughout a given map. They also had huge blind spots. This made it possible for dedicated pilots to memorize their placement and optimal angles of attack in order to keep them permanently destroyed with practically no threat to themselves. There was no mobile AA flak truck or an infantry kit possessing anything remotely threatening to an airplane. Fighter planes, obviously the best at shooting down other aircraft, also carried bombs, not to mention their cannons were good for strafing helpless infantry on the often wide open maps. It was terrible for anyone on the ground, but people tolerated it because it was 2002 or whatever and the general premise of Battlefield was mesmerizing at the time. PS2's balance is obviously not nearly as hosed, but they both share a high barrier to entry and a high skill ceiling. Also, there are definitely still skygods playing BF4, just not as many because ground AA is so effective. A lot of people, maybe even most, are not interested in a fair fight and just want to farm kills. I don't think pilots are even unique in this regard--POINTZ and KDR obsession have taken over everyone in these modern FPS times where just about every statistic imaginable is tracked, visible to everyone else, and everything needs to be unlocked. BF2 started that, by the way.
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Jul 14, 2014 00:08
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Arghy posted:Removing the reverse maneuver and making flak debuff a planes control surfaces so you may survive flak but you wont just ignore it because your now struggling to control your plane. This and give NC a Bf-109, give TR a P-51 Mustang, and give Vanu a spitfire or zero. Done, air game is less poo poo. Da Mott Man fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jul 14, 2014 |
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Jul 14, 2014 00:22
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Horizontal Tree posted:And the TMG is literally worse than its other faction equivalents (Saw S, Flare) o muerte posted:You really should try the Bull, it's the fastest reloading option and the closest to an AR. It gets poo poo on in cqc by anyone who can aim and is using a close range gun though (gently caress you AC,) so there's that. Arghy posted:Goddamn i just cant get over how awesome the reaper/troq is--what is the VS equivalent to these amazing guns?  folgore posted:All you really need to know is that in 1942, ground-based AA existed solely in the form of stationary flak cannons that spawned in static locations throughout a given map. They also had huge blind spots. This made it possible for dedicated pilots to memorize their placement and optimal angles of attack in order to keep them permanently destroyed with practically no threat to themselves. There was no mobile AA flak truck or an infantry kit possessing anything remotely threatening to an airplane. Fighter planes, obviously the best at shooting down other aircraft, also carried bombs, not to mention their cannons were good for strafing helpless infantry on the often wide open maps. It was terrible for anyone on the ground, but people tolerated it because it was 2002 or whatever and the general premise of Battlefield was mesmerizing at the time. 
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Jul 14, 2014 00:26
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Don't give the NC a Messerschmidt. Give us the THUNDERJUG.
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Jul 14, 2014 00:26
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I'll take a Spitfire that can fly backwards, thanks. Reverse maneuver is not a problem and you guys are hating on unique game mechanics and want Planetside air to be War Thunder because its counterintuitive and not readily explained to new players... like almost everything else in this game! (and many, many other modern f2p games) Stop hating the game mechanics. Hate the cheese pilots and ground farmers. Horizontal Tree fucked around with this message at 00:30 on Jul 14, 2014 |
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Jul 14, 2014 00:28
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Da Mott Man posted:This. Give NC a Bf-109, give TR a P-51 Mustang, and give Vanu a spitfire or zero. Done, air game is less poo poo. I'd be down for this but to assume the Pony would be a TR vehicle and not an NC one is insane. The TR should get the Thunderbolt (8 0.50's = dakka) if anything, and the NC the P39 Airacobra (37mm nose gun UHHH YEAH)
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Jul 14, 2014 00:29
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Erata posted:It wouldn't be that bad haha, but what would become of the beloved battle galaxy!? 
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Jul 14, 2014 00:30
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folgore posted:PS2's balance is obviously not nearly as hosed, but they both share a high barrier to entry and a high skill ceiling. Also, there are definitely still skygods playing BF4, just not as many because ground AA is so effective. A lot of people, maybe even most, are not interested in a fair fight and just want to farm kills. I don't think pilots are even unique in this regard--POINTZ and KDR obsession have taken over everyone in these modern FPS times where just about every statistic imaginable is tracked, visible to everyone else, and everything needs to be unlocked. BF2 started that, by the way. The aircraft in BF4 are also much more focused. Jets, which are more able to ignore ground based AA, are split up into two different types. The stealth jet is powerful against other planes and air targets, but not very good against most ground targets and useless against infantry aside from being able to spot dudes really well. The attack jet is slower and turns worse, making it prey against the stealth jet, but is able to do a lot of damage in a pass against ground targets and is very nasty against helecopters. Helecopters are huge targets for ground AA, which vexes chopper pilots to no end, but the only real raw deal is for the Attack Chopper, which just isn't tough enough to survive with it being as slow and big as it is. They also can't make it tougher because their damage modeling means that they'd have to make the Scout Chopper, the rear end in a top hat of the Skies, tougher as well. PS2 could really use some focus and interaction with its air game. Let ground troops designate and have the ability to drop bombs or something, I donno.
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Jul 14, 2014 00:34
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Epic High Five posted:I'd be down for this but to assume the Pony would be a TR vehicle and not an NC one is insane. The TR should get the Thunderbolt (8 0.50's = dakka) if anything, and the NC the P39 Airacobra (37mm nose gun UHHH YEAH) Better idea, give us the Yak-9k. 45mm cannon in the nose. THAT is an NC gun.
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Jul 14, 2014 00:35
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