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Amergin posted:I'm saying that their impetus has nothing to do with race and everything to do with reducing fraud with very simple requirements. You need an ID to get a library book but requiring an ID to vote is somehow racist? As I've brought this up before in the political emails thread and it applies here... Election Fraud in America - The most comprehensive database of electoral fraud (alleged and convicted) that I've found for the United States, spanning from 2000 to 2012. I'm going to show an example with this data about how it's even more blatantly obvious how stupid voter fraud arguments are. ---- In 2008, if you include all instances of fraud by voters (including fraud that voter ID wouldn't stop, like absentee ballot fraud, vote buying, etc.), there were 128 cases of alleged fraud by voters nationwide. I'm going to be super duper generous and say that 99% of all electoral fraud goes unreported and uncaught, which is a bullshit statistic I'm pulling out of my rear end but we'll go with the benefit for those alleging massive fraud. Using that estimate in the 2008 election 12,800 voters committed electoral fraud. I'm going to be even more generous to the argument and say that for maximum electoral fuckup all 12,800 of those fraudulent actions committed resulted in votes for just one candidate, Barack Obama. In 2008 131 million people voted, and Obama/Biden won the popular vote by almost 10 million votes. If 99% of electoral fraud by voters in 2008 went uncaught and all forms of voter fraud resulted in votes that went in favor of Barack Obama, those votes would constitute 0.124% of the difference in votes between the two leading campaigns, or one-tenth of one percent. Let's go even further and imagine all those votes went for Obama in the closest state that he managed to win, North Carolina, worth 15 electoral college points. Obama/Biden won NC by 14,177 votes. Voter ID is a literal waste of MY TAX DOLLARS on a problem that doesn't exist; if we're going to waste money solving problems that don't exist, I at least require that we aren't infringing on the rights of other voters in the process, so just buy and require the use of indelible ink at polling locations. If you want to vote twice you need to cut off your own fingers to manage it. ---- Basically voter fraud is a non-issue even if you assume stupid poo poo like a 1% rate of noticing it and somehow voter ID catching all forms of voter fraud including absentee ballot fraud. Any laws made to fight it that have an outcome of suppressing voting are almost certainly a worse form of voter infringement than in-person voter fraud is. Mo_Steel fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 16:46
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EvanSchenck posted:The problem going with that relatively charitable interpretation is that the laws do have a marked tendency to target minority turnout and on various occasions Republican operatives and legislators have gone off-script to openly admit that this was exactly their aim. It's funny that Amergin is willing to believe the GOP isn't doing something they readily admit to doing.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:47
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Fried Chicken posted:Yes, how dare I point out that your whining about wanting to use identity slurs applies to all identity slurs. Wow, you are having real trouble understanding that your original assertion, the one I addressed, wasn't even about "slurs" it was about saying that only the members of a group can call one another traitors to the group. I'll say it again because you seem both really angry and unable to read: I agree with you that loaded terms like Uncle Tom should not be used by white people. Should I say it again or is twice sufficient? One does not need to be a Jew to state unequivocally that Group 13 were race traitors. One does not need to be an African American to note that black people advocating for Voter ID and other highly discriminatory policies are, to a much much lesser extent, also race traitors. They are actively undermining the civil rights of their own racial group, and no sort of nuanced racial understanding gained through discriminatory experiences is needed to assert this. If pointing out this specific weakness in your claim while also stating that terms like "Uncle Tom" are not ok is what you consider "whining about wanting to use identity slurs" well, all I can say is gently caress you and try actually reading my posts before laying such strange accusations.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:51
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mcmagic posted:It's funny that Amergin is willing to believe the GOP isn't doing something they readily admit to doing. He's trolling the thread. How many times do people need to say this?
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Jul 17, 2014 16:52
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Tigntink posted:Can you cite some examples? I've been a pretty steady DD reader since before my reg date and I can think of maybe a handful of times i've seen the term used (and they were pretty extreme - think black politicians agreeing with crack vs cocaine sentencing). Definitely not in the last few years. CaptainCarrot posted:Then I'm sure finding an example won't be that hard, since Thomas was part of a controversial SC decision recently. Brannock posted:Should be easy enough to find quotes then. Spacedad posted:They're right to make fun of the water bit, because it's a point of comedy in a very bad speech insofar as it was just a rehashing of THE SAME republican talking points except through Marco Rubio's lips in a cheap cynical attempt to grab Hispanic support - it came as a very poor rebuttal to Obama. The water dive came at a moment that punctuated just how bad it all was. If it was a good speech, we could easily overlook that moment. But this was no turning point for the GOP that would make independents think that there's something to the new-and-improved GOP. This was the same old crap, but now with the barest minimum of Uncle Tom ethnic pandering. Gen. Ripper posted:The term "Uncle Tom" exists for a reason, you know. Red_Mage posted:I think it is a likely outcome. It would require a masterfully written opinion to write an opinion that upholds a state's right to not recognize another state's marriages and not overturn Loving v. Virginia. And say what you will about Clarence Thomas (he is a boot licking uncle tom), he won't sign onto a majority that overturns Loving. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you guys legitimately refuse to read threads; this was found within five minutes. Give me a moment and I'll show you the posts either from this thread or the June thread(don't remember which), if you'd like.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:53
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mcmagic posted:It's funny that Amergin is willing to believe the GOP isn't doing something they readily admit to doing. He's just simulating an asinine, thickheaded flack. To learn.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:04
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nutranurse posted:You're inferring a whole bunch here by claiming that someone who is calling a black republican out as being harmful to the advancement of their race as being supremacist. quote:I wasn't talking about the use of the word Uncle Tom, heck, you yourself were just talking about quote:I don't care to police the white forumites of SA on whether or not they use the word Uncle Tom, because the white forumites of SA say way more racist things on the reg (and no one routinely gives a poo poo; I, for one, would love it if the mods policed things to make the forums more friendly towards minorities, but that's not the SA we have). quote:I, however, will gladly use it and call a spade a spade or an Allen West an awful loving uncle tom. I just find it strange that pointing out how a person advocating/espousing political beliefs that actively harm members of their own already downtrodden race is a traitor to their own race is taken as a condescending and self congratulatory act. quote:I would love it if more white people spoke up about how conservative beliefs harm minorities, regardless of the packaging around said toxic beliefs. Much better than when white people either don't give a poo poo or hold those beliefs themselves.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:05
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Yah, I don't think it's unreasonable for fried chicken to feel uncomfortable about seeing white posters throwing around phrases like uncle Tom casually.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:06
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I'll happily refrain from calling black republicans "Uncle Tom" (regardless of how well the shoe seems to fit, it's not my place), while still referring to the Tea Party as Redneck class traitors.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:07
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mcmagic posted:It's funny that Amergin is willing to believe the GOP isn't doing something they readily admit to doing. When has the GOP ever admitted to trying to suppress minority votes?
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Jul 17, 2014 17:08
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They use code words like Democratic voter.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:09
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Unzip and Attack posted:Wow, you are having real trouble understanding that your original assertion, the one I addressed, wasn't even about "slurs" it was about saying that only the members of a group can call one another traitors to the group. I'll say it again because you seem both really angry and unable to read: I agree with you that loaded terms like Uncle Tom should not be used by white people. Should I say it again or is twice sufficient? quote:One does not need to be a Jew to state unequivocally that Group 13 were race traitors. One does not need to be an African American to note that black people advocating for Voter ID and other highly discriminatory policies are, to a much much lesser extent, also race traitors. They are actively undermining the civil rights of their own racial group, and no sort of nuanced racial understanding gained through discriminatory experiences is needed to assert this. If pointing out this specific weakness in your claim while also stating that terms like "Uncle Tom" are not ok is what you consider "whining about wanting to use identity slurs" well, all I can say is gently caress you and try actually reading my posts before laying such strange accusations.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:09
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Amergin posted:When has the GOP ever admitted to trying to suppress minority votes? "We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term." - Lindsey Graham
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Jul 17, 2014 17:10
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Fried Chicken posted:Should I point out again that you dipshits were specifically trying to come up with new racial, ethnic, and orientation slurs? gently caress off with trying to pretend this is about "we want to criticize their actions" this was openly hosed up identity targeting. Please stop lumping me in with people saying that Uncle Tom is an ok term to use. This marks the third loving time I've had to say it and you still aren't getting it. Jesus Christ take a break or something.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:11
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Fried Chicken posted:no, "I'm a better X than X and I'm not even X" is a very old racist line. It is very much a supremacy idea tied in with the "white savior" and goes back at least to Kipling I don't disagree with you in principle, but have you actually seen just what kind of people you're defending? Ben Carson and Allen West are some straight up anti-black racists.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:11
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Talmonis posted:I don't disagree with you in principle, but have you actually seen just what kind of people you're defending? Ben Carson and Allen West are some straight up anti-black racists. Because they want the same end goal as liberals: prosperity and equality for minorities. They just have a different view on how to get there. Therefore, they are straight up anti-black black racists. OR, you're assuming everyone who disagrees with you is racist.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:14
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I'm not comfortable calling Ben Carson, Clarence Thomas, or Allen West "uncle toms." However, sellout, moron, slimeball, or in one case possible war criminal are acceptable.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:16
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Amergin posted:When has the GOP ever admitted to trying to suppress minority votes? http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/25/2835101/gop-asks-party-official-resign-admits-voter-suppresses-democratic-votes/ Dude literally said it, out loud, on air. I realize that you're a professional troll, but I felt I needed to provide this example. Also, can we call Ben Carson, Allen West, and Clarence Thomas "Uncle Ruckuses" instead? Amergin posted:Because they want the same end goal as liberals: prosperity and equality for minorities. But their solutions DON'T help black people. There is demonstrable proof that they do, in fact, HURT black people, and yet they continue to push them like twisted snake-oil salesmen. If your politics support things that actively hurt minorities, and you acknowledge this and continue to advocate them anyway, that makes you a racist--white sheet or no. Fritz Coldcockin fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 17:19
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Amergin posted:Because they want the same end goal as liberals: prosperity and equality for minorities. Did you write this with a straight face?
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Jul 17, 2014 17:21
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Alter Ego posted:http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/10/25/2835101/gop-asks-party-official-resign-admits-voter-suppresses-democratic-votes/ If you're too lazy to go get an ID, why should you be allowed to vote?  poo poo if you're too lazy to get an ID, you're probably too lazy to learn anything about the candidates and will likely be an ignorant "check all R/D" voter anyway. EDIT: mcmagic posted:Did you write this with a straight face? Go listen to that C-Span interview. The GOP wants to focus on equality of opportunity, not force equality in results. Affirmative action is a good example. Giving a boost to black students thus allowing them to go to colleges where they will likely fail is not helping the black community, it's hurting it by increasing the switching of majors to easier majors or, worse, drop-out rates. There's no reason for it. Black immigrants with a good work ethic get in these schools all the time and succeed because they were raised with that work ethic and with a good foundation. If a hoodlum is raised with a lovely work ethic, why do you want to give him a golden ticket to failure in an Ivy League school? It's like y'all think that Method Man movie "How High" is how reality works or some poo poo. Amergin fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 17:21
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mcmagic posted:If someone is a Fixed this for you. Race doesn't really have anything to do with it.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:22
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The Rokstar posted:Fixed this for you. Race doesn't really have anything to do with it. Nah you're wrong. There are a ton of white non-rich republicans who are republicans for a ton of reasons even if they don't have the access to the wingnut welfare streams that black republicans do.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:24
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Amergin posted:If you're too lazy to Much better.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:24
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Amergin posted:If you're too lazy to go get an ID, why should you be allowed to vote? Because voting is a right guaranteed in the Constitution and it should be easy enough for everyone in the country to do at a moments notice no matter who they are or what they're doing with their life. Amergin posted:poo poo if you're too lazy to get an ID, you're probably too lazy to learn anything about the candidates and will likely be an ignorant "check all R/D" voter anyway. I don't give a gently caress if they're voting for Daffy Duck, that's their right and they should be able to exercise it.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:25
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I am a race traitor because I vote for the Democratic Party and they actively work against white interests by promoting affirmative action
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Jul 17, 2014 17:27
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How long until someone blames the Malaysia Airlines Ukraine crash on Obama trying to distract America away from the border crisis?
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Jul 17, 2014 17:28
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Ballz posted:How long until someone blames the Malaysia Airlines Ukraine crash on Obama trying to distract America away from the border crisis? CNN's found their new story for the next few months. 
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Jul 17, 2014 17:29
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Ballz posted:How long until someone blames the Malaysia Airlines Ukraine crash on Obama trying to distract America away from the border crisis?
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Jul 17, 2014 17:31
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Fox and others are going to blame Obama for not standing up to Putin and that's why the blood of those on the airliner is on him. I guarantee it.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:31
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Amergin posted:If you're too lazy to go get an ID, why should you be allowed to vote? Nope, sorry, you went off the rails here. I don't give a poo poo what your level of voter education is or where you live--it is a Constitutionally guaranteed principle that you get to vote for whoever the hell you want to. And since I know what your next devil's advocate question will be ("show me where in the Constitution it says that"), how about here: 15th Amendment posted:Section 1.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:31
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Ballz posted:How long until someone blames the Malaysia Airlines Ukraine crash on Obama trying to distract America away from the border crisis? Glorious Facebook asshat on my feed posted that Putin shot it down. Got a good laugh.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:33
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Amergin posted:
EDIT: Apparently I was completely wrong about this! gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 17:33
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Talmonis posted:I'll happily refrain from calling black republicans "Uncle Tom" (regardless of how well the shoe seems to fit, it's not my place), while still referring to the Tea Party as Redneck class traitors. The Tea Party that is wealthier and more educated than the average American?
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Jul 17, 2014 17:34
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Amergin posted:Because they want the same end goal as liberals: prosperity and equality for minorities. Horseshit. The entire "National Black Republican" website is nothing more than "Liberals are the REAL racists!" and "Look how awful black Democrats are!" alongside a heaping helping of "The southern strategy doesn't exist!"
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Jul 17, 2014 17:42
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Talmonis posted:I don't disagree with you in principle, but have you actually seen just what kind of people you're defending? Ben Carson and Allen West are some straight up anti-black racists. And you can attack them without using language that exists only to slur black people. Unzip and Attack posted:Please stop lumping me in with people saying that Uncle Tom is an ok term to use. This marks the third loving time I've had to say it and you still aren't getting it. Jesus Christ take a break or something. Bullshit, this flare up was because in response to my calling them out for using "Uncle Tom" and trying to craft new ones, you decided to defend them on the grounds of "but what about the people who gave aid and comfort to the enemy in a literal war of racial extermination? Aren't they 'race traitors'? What's wrong with it when it's true?" :smuhg: Which is the exact same justification that is used by Freep for using racial slurs. Literally - around page 225 there are a bunch of quotes from them on "but it's true" from a newspaper oped using slurs on Obama in the headline.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:42
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gradenko_2000 posted:You should be allowed to vote because the Constitution specifically says you should be allowed to, and places no restrictions no matter how ignorant you are when voting. Actually, it doesn't. The constitution sets some criteria of who will be allowed a vote, but it does not expressly grant you the right to vote. Which sounds stupid but is actually a really important legal distinction that has had a lot of impacts over our history
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Jul 17, 2014 17:45
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Alter Ego posted:Nope, sorry, you went off the rails here. I don't give a poo poo what your level of voter education is or where you live--it is a Constitutionally guaranteed principle that you get to vote for whoever the hell you want to. Wait until he tells us he's simulating an originalist.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:47
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computer parts posted:The Tea Party that is wealthier and more educated than the average American? None of the rural supporters of the Tea Party that I deal with regularly are rich or educated, and are by far the loudest and most racist among that group. This includes members of my extended family, so I'm fully aware of their "views".
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Jul 17, 2014 17:48
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shrike82 posted:Fox and others are going to blame Obama for not standing up to Putin and that's why the blood of those on the airliner is on him. Let's see how the public is reacting through Breitbart Comments quote:Warmonger Obomba • 24 minutes ago http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/17/Official--Malaysian-plane-shot-down-over-Ukraine
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Jul 17, 2014 17:49
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Let's see how the public is reacting through Breitbart Comments I like to hope that Breitbart comments aren't really representative of the US in general buuuuut 
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Jul 17, 2014 17:53
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