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I'm wondering how the skyactiv is going to work in a sports car since it was designed for ultimate economy and not necessarily performance. Yeah the BP was a FWD motor in other cars, but it was considered Mazda's "performance" 4 banger at the time and wasn't exactly designed for economy. It will be interesting to see how the skactiv will react to getting the piss revved out of it on a track, and how the first few testers will rate it in terms of performance vs. economy. I hope it does well because having both would be pretty sweet.
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Jul 16, 2014 23:40
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Soooooooooooo the AC died this week in my 97. Fan still blows air through the vents. Where do I start? I know nothing about AC.
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Jul 17, 2014 00:04
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blk posted:Soooooooooooo the AC died this week in my 97. Fan still blows air through the vents. Where do I start? I know nothing about AC. Start here. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3616944
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Jul 17, 2014 00:06
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Thanks - was the AC the same for all years NA? I found an earlier diagram but not sure if it's the same in my 97.
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Jul 17, 2014 00:25
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I still think the ND will have a turbo engine. In the teaser vid shown a couple weeks ago you could clearly hear a turbo, and that torque would be a lot easier to hit with a turbo. With that extra torque maybe they'll make it get better mileage by getting away with better gear ratios instead of having to gear the trans so it can get out of it's own way on the highway. (never driven an NC but assume it's better than my 1.8 NA was in that regard)
Suburban Dad fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 01:07
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Larrymer posted:I still think the ND will have a turbo engine. In the teaser vid shown a couple weeks ago you could clearly hear a turbo, and that torque would be a lot easier to hit with a turbo. With that extra torque maybe they'll make it get better mileage by getting away with better gear ratios instead of having to gear the trans so it can get out of it's own way on the highway. (never driven an NC but assume it's better than my 1.8 NA was in that regard) The Skyactiv 2.0L in the Mazda3 makes 155HP @ 6000rpm and 150ft-lbs @ 4000rpm. I don't think they're going to need a turbocharger to make an extra 5 ft-lbs. The NC's 2.0L MZR is rated at 167HP/140ft-lbs. The 2.0L MZR in the old Mazda3 made 150HP and 135ft-lbs. The B6 in the NA's made 115HP/100ft-lbs. The B6 SOHC from the 323 made 103HP/108ft-lbs. I AM SENSING A VERY STRONG CORRELATION AS TO A FORMULA THAT MAZDA HAS USED FOR LITERALLY THE PAST 25 YEARS
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Jul 17, 2014 02:49
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I strongly question the logic of people who think that Mazda has designed a bespoke sub-200whp turbocharged engine specifically for the Miata.
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Jul 17, 2014 03:10
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Savington posted:I strongly question the logic of people who think that Mazda has designed a bespoke sub-200whp turbocharged engine specifically for the Miata. I think the idea is that motor would also power a Mazdaspeed 2 or something. But I don't buy it. It did sound like their was turbo whistle in that driving video, but it could be something else or just bullshit sound editing. Those numbers make it sound like a warmed over Skyactive. If it were a turbo motor, the HP and Tq figures would probably be reversed.
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Jul 17, 2014 03:38
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Savington posted:I strongly question the logic of people who think that Mazda has designed a bespoke sub-200whp turbocharged engine specifically for the Miata. There already is the Fiat 1.4 turbo going into the same chassis supposedly, so it's not that outrageous of a possibility. And with a very large portion of the industry doing small displacement turbo engines (Ford, GM, Hyundai, Fiat, and Toyota just announced they're going this direction as well), who knows. It's all just speculation until September. 
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Jul 17, 2014 04:00
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Installed the MSM suspension in my 97 today. Took about 5 hours to do everything, but a lot of that was figuring out the right combination of tools to use in each spot, and the general learning curve. Could probably do it again in 2-3. I did the long bolt method and it was really straightforward. Luckily no majorly stubborn nuts or bolts. The top nuts under the fuel lines in the trunk are a pain in the rear end. Initial impressions are very positive. My suspension was all original at 148K. The shocks that went in have about 70k on them. I only had time for a short drive, but the best way to describe the ride is more composed. It doesn't jump all over the road on bad imperfections, and is just more comfortable in general. Totally worth it for a budget upgrade. Ride height is very similar, maybe half an inch higher in the rear. Luckily my 97 is the heaviest of the NA's, I understand on early models you gain a few inches in the rear with this setup.      
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Jul 17, 2014 04:16
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Larrymer posted:There already is the Fiat 1.4 turbo going into the same chassis supposedly, so it's not that outrageous of a possibility. And with a very large portion of the industry doing small displacement turbo engines (Ford, GM, Hyundai, Fiat, and Toyota just announced they're going this direction as well), who knows. Not that it's technically impossible, but... Mazda made a conscious decision to use efficient NA engines when everyone was going nuts with downsized turbo engines. There's no way they'd go "you know what..." and stick a turbo engine in the only car in their range. The drivetrain is going to be the main differentiation vs the Alfa. Anyway, the ND's weight is actually pretty impressive, but 160hp @ like 6k RPM makes me a bit  . Even the ~150hp 1.8l BPs were somewhat underpowered 15 years ago, now this is getting a bit silly and I'm not even all about powaaaah.
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Jul 17, 2014 13:27
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I dont know, I feel like the NA would be pretty fun with 50% more power. And thats about what this should be. Also something about crazy high compression NA motors makes me all hot and bothered.
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Jul 17, 2014 14:50
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I've driven a 3 with that engine and it's definitely underpowered. Hopefully it won't feel so bad not having 500lbs of addition weight on there. I wonder how the gearing will be compared to the 3, since I imagine they would go a little more aggressive with it on the lower gears
Nodoze fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 15:08
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mobby_6kl posted:Anyway, the ND's weight is actually pretty impressive, but 160hp @ like 6k RPM makes me a bit The motor in the 3 makes 155@6000, so my guess is this will make it's peak around 65-800. Nodoze posted:I've driven a 3 with that engine and it's definitely underpowered. Hopefully it won't feel so bad not having 500lbs of addition weight on there. I wonder how the gearing will be compared to the 3, since I imagine they would go a little more aggressive with it on the lower gears I'm sure it will have significantly shorter gearing than the 3. While achieving better fuel economy is definitely one of Mazda's goals here, they aren't as compelled to get a 40mpg highway rating, and the numbers on the NC are 21/28. So they have a lot of room to make the powertrain more agressive and still achieve major efficiency gains.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:14
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On paper the ND checks off most of the enthusiast wants: it's pretty much an NA with 50% more power and modern safety engineering, chassis rigidity, convenience features and good fuel economy. The Mazda 2 interior looks fantastic and really evokes the minimalist NA6 dash.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:29
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Bulk Vanderhuge posted:On paper the ND checks off most of the enthusiast wants: it's pretty much an NA with 50% more power and modern safety engineering, chassis rigidity, convenience features and good fuel economy. No pop up headlights, modern NA experience ruined
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Jul 17, 2014 17:51
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PeterWeller posted:The motor in the 3 makes 155@6000, so my guess is this will make it's peak around 65-800. But how is it going to respond to spirited and aggressive driving that's the question. We know it's good on gas, but has anyone really wrung it out on a track? I assume it's gonna be drive by wire, how will respond to heel/toe? How does it rev? How does it sound? I'm just concerned that this motor may have no business being in a Miata, but I hope I'm wrong.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:57
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By the way, anyone near western New York interested in an automatic '91? GOON DISCOUNT! [/doublepost]
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Jul 17, 2014 18:00
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leica posted:But how is it going to respond to spirited and aggressive driving that's the question. We know it's good on gas, but has anyone really wrung it out on a track? I assume it's gonna be drive by wire, how will respond to heel/toe? How does it rev? How does it sound? I'm just concerned that this motor may have no business being in a Miata, but I hope I'm wrong. As others have pointed out, every Miata motor has begun as a pedestrian economy motor. The MZR in my NC wasn't anything really special, but it revved freely, pulled well enough, and sounded great once I put a Roadstersport race catback on it (see upthread for how great others find that exhaust). This motor is supposed to make similar power and about ten percent more torque in a 200 pound lighter car. I don't think you need to be worried unless you are really hoping Mazda would break their trend and design a special motor just for the ND, and in that case, I think your expectations are unrealistic.
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Jul 17, 2014 18:16
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I never suggested Mazda should have designed a special motor for the Miata. Mazda's "trend" has never before involved a super high compression motor designed specifically for fuel economy and I'm just curious how it's going to translate into a performance car.
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Jul 17, 2014 18:35
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^^ Supposedly the Skyactiv engines have a rather different feeling due to higher compression and other black magic that might not be as suitable for a sports car. But not having driven one, I'm going to hold out and see. Bulk Vanderhuge posted:On paper the ND checks off most of the enthusiast wants: it's pretty much an NA with 50% more power and modern safety engineering, chassis rigidity, convenience features and good fuel economy. Definitely don't want to come off as a party pooper - I'm still excited as hell about the ND even though I probably won't be buying it anytime soon either. Still, not sure why it's being compared to the NA, while its weight is (apparently) much closer to the NBFL, with a modest increase in power. If I'm scraping wikipedia correctly, the power to weight is just barely better than the NC, too: pre:weight powah kg/hp NA 940 115 8.17 NA 940 133 7.07 NBFL 1065 147 7.24 NC 1110 170 6.53 ND 1065 165 6.45 BRZ 1190 203 5.86 S2000 1250 237 5.27 
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Jul 17, 2014 18:43
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leica posted:I never suggested Mazda should have designed a special motor for the Miata. "Super high compression" is also a trick for adding power (and so are the equal length headers that necessitate that long rear end hood on the 3). You keep talking about the Skyactive motor like it's some miser's job, but the whole point of Skyactive is a holistic approach to fuel economy, not just a rinky-dink engine. The motor "designed specifically for fuel economy" also makes 155/150. They're clearly going to tune it up on top of that. And again, every Miata motor has begun as a pedestrian motor. You are talking as if the base MZR was not designed for economy. I don't expect some amazing motor, and no one should--that's never been a Miata ingredient--but considering Mazda's dedication to building a real drivers' car in the Miata, I'm sure it will be good enough.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:10
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It's not like it's a laggy, sluggish motor? I've driven my sister-in-law's 2.0L 3 a few times and while it's not particularly quick, it's not bad by any means.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:14
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mobby_6kl posted:
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Jul 17, 2014 19:31
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IOwnCalculus posted:It's not like it's a laggy, sluggish motor? I've driven my sister-in-law's 2.0L 3 a few times and while it's not particularly quick, it's not bad by any means. There aren't a lot of lovely fuel economy penalty box motors with 4-2-1 hotshot clone headers, massively dished pistons and a transmission with a factory short shifter. When Mazda says "SkyActiv" what you should really read is "Fuel Economy via Volumetric Efficiency, Wink Wink." Everything about what Mazda did with that engine rules: http://www.mazda.com/technology/skyactiv/engine/skyactiv-g.html
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Jul 17, 2014 20:14
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I have a 94 miata with 152k on the clock. Recently I've been having clutch issues, but at first it was just the master cylinder running dry because of a leak somewhere. I've been trying to find the leak, but to no avail (refilling the fluid in the mean time as it would drip out completely every 5 days or so). Yesterday I got in the car and the clutch just went to the floor - no pressure at all. There was fluid in the master cylinder. Things I've done, replaced the slave cylinder a couple years ago when it was leaking. I checked it first thing of course and the boot was dry, no leak there. Rebuilt the master cylinder just in case as well. Checked all along the line between the master and the slave. Hard lines look good, the soft hose connecting the two looks good as well. Most recent development after rebuilding the master is that there is a whistling noise coming from (what I assume is the transmission). It changes in pitch if i depress the clutch. I'm out of ideas so I'm guessing it has to be the clutch/transmission? Frankly, it's time to replace the clutch - has about 60k on it. My googling around also suggested I could have broken the clutch fork - replacement of which is such that you may as well do the clutch too. Any ideas?
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Jul 17, 2014 21:51
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I miss my miata... I was installing coilovers, got the rears on, but couldn't get the longbolts out in front so I took it to a local guy. He took care of the install, but I also ordered a timing belt and seal kit for him to put in because all of the front mains were leaking and might as well take care of everything while it's there. While installing that, he found the crank bolt had been loose for who knows how long and ate up the key. Ordered a key, it arrived, then he had a death in the family and had to leave town for 2 weeks. So, its been in the shop for a month and the weather has been amazing the whole time. I might get it back this month. It is a one man shop and he does lots of porsche and audi work, he also does spec miata and was working on mine between other things so I don't mind the repair time too much. Bonus: the numbskull I bought it from left the timing retarded 1 tooth on the exhaust side. No wonder I've been having idle problems. I posted that picture earlier.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:03
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Russian Bear posted:I have a 94 miata with 152k on the clock. Recently I've been having clutch issues, but at first it was just the master cylinder running dry because of a leak somewhere. I've been trying to find the leak, but to no avail (refilling the fluid in the mean time as it would drip out completely every 5 days or so). Yesterday I got in the car and the clutch just went to the floor - no pressure at all. There was fluid in the master cylinder. You get a squealing from the clutch? Could it be a throwout bearing?
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Jul 17, 2014 22:08
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PeterWeller posted:"Super high compression" is also a trick for adding power (and so are the equal length headers that necessitate that long rear end hood on the 3). You keep talking about the Skyactive motor like it's some miser's job, but the whole point of Skyactive is a holistic approach to fuel economy, not just a rinky-dink engine. The motor "designed specifically for fuel economy" also makes 155/150. They're clearly going to tune it up on top of that. And again, every Miata motor has begun as a pedestrian motor. You are talking as if the base MZR was not designed for economy. I don't expect some amazing motor, and no one should--that's never been a Miata ingredient--but considering Mazda's dedication to building a real drivers' car in the Miata, I'm sure it will be good enough. Sure the numbers look good on paper, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be well received in a Miata. As far as tuning, I'm not sure how much farther they can push a motor with that kind of compression. Besides: mobby_6kl posted:Supposedly the Skyactiv engines have a rather different feeling due to higher compression and other black magic that might not be as suitable for a sports car. But not having driven one, I'm going to hold out and see. This is more of what I was talking about.
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Jul 18, 2014 01:12
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leica posted:Sure the numbers look good on paper, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be well received in a Miata. As far as tuning, I'm not sure how much farther they can push a motor with that kind of compression. Besides: Dude, you keep ignoring the part where I keep saying that every Miata motor has begun as a econobox motor. And they can tune it for more power--they have basically said so--it will probably just lose some efficiency. It's not like having a high compression means they can't put in some hotter cams and bigger valves and increase the timing some. That's what they did for the BP and MZR. Besides: IOwnCalculus posted:It's not like it's a laggy, sluggish motor? I've driven my sister-in-law's 2.0L 3 a few times and while it's not particularly quick, it's not bad by any means.
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Jul 18, 2014 02:33
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I would imagine that they could tune the feel/power/mileage of the Skyactive however they want. We'll see. That being said, I wouldn't want the 2.5 from our Mazda6 in a Miata. Power would be great but the sound and feel would suck balls.
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Jul 18, 2014 02:35
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No guys I'm pretty sure based on the leaked rough estimate of this engine's output that it's actually a bad engine unfit for a Miata and that Mazda has for the first time ever hosed up their sports car.
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Jul 18, 2014 02:45
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Wheeee posted:Mazda has for the first time ever hosed up their sports car. Yeah, but enough about the RX-8. (you hear that? it's the sound of shots being fired)
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Jul 18, 2014 02:48
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PeterWeller posted:Dude, you keep ignoring the part where I keep saying that every Miata motor has begun as a econobox motor. And they can tune it for more power--they have basically said so--it will probably just lose some efficiency. It's not like having a high compression means they can't put in some hotter cams and bigger valves and increase the timing some. That's what they did for the BP and MZR. Dude, I'm not ignoring it, I talked about it a few posts back already? What does it matter anyway, it's not the friggin point I'm debating, my point was how the new motor will be received by Miata enthusiasts and auto journalists that are actually going to be driving it when it comes out. If you want to go by how it looks on paper and what Mazda says, I guess it's going to be the best Miata ever? Go ahead, I'll reserve my judgment until someone actually drives the drat thing.
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Jul 18, 2014 02:50
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leica posted:Dude, I'm not ignoring it, I talked about it a few posts back already? What does it matter anyway, it's not the friggin point I'm debating, my point was how the new motor will be received by Miata enthusiasts and auto journalists that are actually going to be driving it when it comes out. If you want to go by how it looks on paper and what Mazda says, I guess it's going to be the best Miata ever? Go ahead, I'll reserve my judgment until someone actually drives the drat thing. Alright man, if you're not worried about the motor's reception because of its economy car roots, why are you worried? And don't act like I'm some fanboy saying, "best Miata ever!" I said I think the motor will be good enough, which is par for the Miata course.
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Jul 18, 2014 04:13
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I'm not worried about anything, just curious about how it will perform in a Miata when it's put through the paces.
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Jul 18, 2014 04:40
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leica posted:I'm just concerned that this motor may have no business being in a Miata, but I hope I'm wrong. Okay, man.
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Jul 18, 2014 05:02
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Because the soul of the NA/NB Miata is clearly the glorious BP lump.  A motor so refined it snaps its throttle body shafts with vibrations. A motor so advanced that in year 2001 of our lord Mazda added a automatic choke. A motor so well fitted to the application of a light sports car that it outweighs V8s of the same vintage.
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Jul 18, 2014 05:13
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FatCow posted:Because the soul of the NA/NB Miata is clearly the glorious BP lump. Miatas have always been great cars in spite of a miserable engine, not because of it. At least BPs are reliable!
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Jul 18, 2014 05:24
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PeterWeller posted:Okay, man. Haha, I'm more concerned for the Miata community as a whole, but personally I'm not gonna lose sleep over it. can we loving drop it now? Thanks.
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Jul 18, 2014 06:08
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