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sassassin posted:So you agree he accomplished more as a villain than anything else in ME3 I don't think you understand what makes a villain good, or much of anything, just my two cents.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:45
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sassassin posted:So you agree he accomplished more as a villain than anything else in ME3 Did you loving write Kai Leng, or something? I can't think of any other reason you'd got to all this trouble to defend a terribly hackneyed character that was jammed in as an afterthought into a game.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:46
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sassassin posted:You're supposed to resent his presence and hate that he's even considered on your level. It's really well worked, and a hundred times as effective as the bland reaper/cerberus "threats". Did you write Kai Leng? Is this a Bioware parachute account? Kai Leng is a terrible villain unfit for even the shittiest anime.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:47
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Am I the only one who doesn't mind Kai Leng? I mean, everything ever said about him is essentially true...but I just don't give a poo poo. He's not a good character, but he doesn't detract from my enjoyment of ME3 in the least. That said, I also enjoyed the ending to ME3, mostly. I'm in this weird camp where I see everything the internet says as true, it just doesn't stop me from enjoying stuff when I'm actually playing it.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:52
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To be honest, he shows up like 3 times total, barring any weird emails he sends you in the vain hope senpai will notice him, so completely ignoring him isn't that difficult.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:54
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chaosapiant posted:Am I the only one who doesn't mind Kai Leng? I mean, everything ever said about him is essentially true...but I just don't give a poo poo. He's not a good character, but he doesn't detract from my enjoyment of ME3 in the least. That said, I also enjoyed the ending to ME3, mostly. I'm in this weird camp where I see everything the internet says as true, it just doesn't stop me from enjoying stuff when I'm actually playing it. You're the kind of person who doesn't get personally invested in works of fiction, sometimes referred to as "well-adjusted".
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Jul 31, 2014 14:54
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chaosapiant posted:Am I the only one who doesn't mind Kai Leng? I mean, everything ever said about him is essentially true...but I just don't give a poo poo. He's not a good character, but he doesn't detract from my enjoyment of ME3 in the least. That said, I also enjoyed the ending to ME3, mostly. I'm in this weird camp where I see everything the internet says as true, it just doesn't stop me from enjoying stuff when I'm actually playing it. Killing him is certainly rewarding. But not in the same way beating an actual, challenging villain would be. It's more like killing that one fly that keeps buzzing by your ear.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:54
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Plom Bar posted:You're the kind of person who doesn't get personally invested in works of fiction, sometimes referred to as "well-adjusted". I don't know, I mean, I've played the trilogy through probably about 16-17 times now. I love the characters, and the world building, and the overall story arch. I just tend to focus my attention on all the poo poo I like and ignore the poo poo that, if I thought about it too much, might frustrate me. The things that DO frustrate me are things I can't justify in my head story-wise, like why the hell the primitives in Jacob's loyalty mission have thermal clips on their guns. But since I play games as a form of escapism, ME is probably my favorite series in it's ability to make me feel like I'm somewhere else.
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Jul 31, 2014 14:57
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chaosapiant posted:I don't know, I mean, I've played the trilogy through probably about 16-17 times now. I love the characters, and the world building, and the overall story arch. I just tend to focus my attention on all the poo poo I like and ignore the poo poo that, if I thought about it too much, might frustrate me. The things that DO frustrate me are things I can't justify in my head story-wise, like why the hell the primitives in Jacob's loyalty mission have thermal clips on their guns. But since I play games as a form of escapism, ME is probably my favorite series in it's ability to make me feel like I'm somewhere else. Honestly, I'm probably the wrong person to post in this thread, since I've only played ME2 once and ME3 maybe two times. I just play the multiplayer instead. 
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Jul 31, 2014 15:04
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Plom Bar posted:I don't think you understand what makes a villain good, or much of anything, just my two cents. Rude.
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Jul 31, 2014 15:07
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Keru posted:Did you loving write Kai Leng, or something? I can't think of any other reason you'd got to all this trouble to defend a terribly hackneyed character that was jammed in as an afterthought into a game. You have proof of this? Or is this just critfic?
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Jul 31, 2014 15:14
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Keru posted:To be honest, he shows up like 3 times total, barring any weird emails he sends you in the vain hope senpai will notice him, so completely ignoring him isn't that difficult. To be honest, I didn't mind the idea, I minded the execution. In a world where people have shields and armor that can absorb the kinetic energy of a bullet, how does a samurai sword help anything? In a world where someone can drop a singularity on your rear end, or break your face and neck with an angry thought, how does being able to flip around and jump kick help anything? Seriously, the person whose feet leave the ground in a non-stage/screen hand to hand fight is the one who's going to find himself without any leverage to resist being grabbed and thrown. All the more-so in a world with Biotics. I also didn't care for Thane going from Leon style super-sneaky assassin to ninja. And then there was this wonderful missed opportunity to cut the whole thing short: 
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Jul 31, 2014 15:40
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Apparently Kai Leng's effect on the audience depends on how personally you take characters created to be irritating and obnoxious to the player.
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Jul 31, 2014 16:10
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CPFortest posted:Apparently Kai Leng's effect on the audience depends on how personally you take characters created to be irritating and obnoxious to the player. So he's the Dawn of Mass Effect?
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Jul 31, 2014 16:23
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CPFortest posted:Apparently Kai Leng's effect on the audience depends on how personally you take characters created to be irritating and obnoxious to the player. Bored and uninterested? I really don't have a rise out of him, he wasn't a major villain, he was like a side boss that they decided to expand into a muiltipart battle, only poorly and so separated that you forgot about him pretty much instantly.
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Jul 31, 2014 17:17
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I feel like Kai Leng's effect would be diminished if he was played straight as the Illusive Man's most dangerous servant. The Illusive Man is the main antagonist of the game because his strategy for defeating the Reapers contradicts yours. With that in mind, he has to be taken seriously within the perspectives' of the characters, otherwise there's no point. Kai Leng on the other hand, is irritating because he is the literal embodiment of how suicidal and stupid the Illusive Man's methods and goals are. He is also, in effect, what Illusive Man truly wanted Shepard to be in ME2, which the game actually comments on in a scene between Shepard and Liara if you killed the Virmire Survivor during the Coup. The game taking Kai Leng more seriously would undermine thematic points like Cerberus' foolishness in opposing the Alliance, and the Illusive Man's desire for a loyal, not competent and efficient, servant above all else. You could argue that Anderson's exposition about Kai Leng undercuts that, but he and the Illusive Man, Shepard's thematic father figures who both must die before Shepard can end the war, are the only ones who take Kai Leng seriously or see value in him, while every other character that mentions Leng is either dismissive of him, easily deals with him if they know he's coming, or actively mocks him on their deathbed. e: Ignoring my pithy statement above, the reason why this effect doesn't come across is that Kai Leng's design, while it works for what the writers were doing thematically, ended up being a distraction for players and everything else gets lost in the shuffle. Goddamn that is a lot of words about Kai Leng. Fag Boy Jim is right, posting in this thread is a sign of mental problems. CPFortest fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jul 31, 2014 |
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Jul 31, 2014 17:49
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Somehow Kai Leng was more interesting in the books. Or in the book. Whatever.
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Jul 31, 2014 21:44
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Waltzing Along posted:Somehow Kai Leng was more interesting in the books. Or in the book. Whatever. He wasn't. He was just less objectionable which for some reason is what people seem to value in a villain. He's an irritant and an obstacle in a way that Saren and Sovereign and everything in ME3 never really were. A genuine antagonist. sassassin fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jul 31, 2014 |
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Jul 31, 2014 21:55
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sassassin posted:He wasn't. He was just less objectionable which for some reason is what people seem to value in a villain. He ate some cereal. And killed some people without monologuing. He gets his legs all hosed up and escapes. I'd say he was damned near likable as compared to ME3.
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Jul 31, 2014 21:57
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Waltzing Along posted:He ate some cereal. And killed some people without monologuing. He gets his legs all hosed up and escapes. I'd say he was damned near likable as compared to ME3. You want to like the villain? That is good to you?
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Jul 31, 2014 21:58
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people probably want a villain they think earned (either reputably or not) their prowess and skill rather than appearing out of no-where and suddenly being a force to be reckoned with see: the Reapers, Cerberus from ME1->2
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Jul 31, 2014 22:01
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sassassin posted:You want to like the villain? That is good to you? I'm with you, bro. Black and white are the only shades I need. Nuance and humanity in characterization are for intellectualist poop brains.
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Jul 31, 2014 22:01
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sassassin posted:You want to like the villain? That is good to you?
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Jul 31, 2014 22:03
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SubponticatePoster posted:I don't have to like them, but I would request that they at least be interesting and/or engaging. Kai Leng was neither. This is what I am saying. In the books he at least made some sort of sense. He didn't come off as some plot device. He served function. poo poo, IIRC, he kills Aria's daughter which is what leads to her losing control of Omega. None of this is translated in the game, though.
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Jul 31, 2014 22:10
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I'm going to reserve judgement about the next Mass Effect game until more details and story/gameplay trailers come out. There's just not enough information to either get excited or to decide to pass for me yet.
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Jul 31, 2014 22:11
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Spikeguy posted:I'm going to reserve judgement about the next Mass Effect game until more details and story/gameplay trailers come out. There's just not enough information to either get excited or to decide to pass for me yet. So you're new to the internet I see.
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Jul 31, 2014 23:34
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I've decided that the next Mass Effect game will be the greatest game ever released.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:27
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Fag Boy Jim posted:I've decided that the next Mass Effect game will be the greatest game ever released. It will certainly result in the greatest internet threads ever made.
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Aug 1, 2014 00:55
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In ME4 the player will be Shepard and Liara's lovechild, Sayonara, who leads the galactic feminism movement. Her first act will be to sway the untold legions of the Geth to her side to forcibly enforce feminism across galactic space, while the rest of the Asari Republics try to defeat her. e: Sayonara will be supported by the all-male crew of the Fedorable Iseeyouseemeseeyou fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 01:42
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sassassin posted:You want to like the villain? That is good to you? It's kind of like how Star Wars is better if you watch it with Darth Vader's deep booming voice replaced by Fran Drescher, because it makes him really annoying and you hope the good guys will defeat him.
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Aug 1, 2014 01:51
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:Fedorable This is an excellent name for my awesome space ship.
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Aug 1, 2014 02:19
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Here's a ME1 question that bugs me every time I see it now. Right after Saren shoots Nihlus, Sovereign takes off in the background, yet Saren is still on Eden Prime. Then he disappears and you kill his minions and get knocked out by the beacon. Where did Saren go?
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Aug 1, 2014 03:53
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Waltzing Along posted:Here's a ME1 question that bugs me every time I see it now. Right after Saren shoots Nihlus, Sovereign takes off in the background, yet Saren is still on Eden Prime. Then he disappears and you kill his minions and get knocked out by the beacon. Where did Saren go? Something something mass effect field generators he made it on the ship in time.
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Aug 1, 2014 04:01
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Waltzing Along posted:Here's a ME1 question that bugs me every time I see it now. Right after Saren shoots Nihlus, Sovereign takes off in the background, yet Saren is still on Eden Prime. Then he disappears and you kill his minions and get knocked out by the beacon. Where did Saren go? He flew away using the extra mass effect generators in his cheek-spines.
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Aug 1, 2014 05:03
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Waltzing Along posted:Here's a ME1 question that bugs me every time I see it now. Right after Saren shoots Nihlus, Sovereign takes off in the background, yet Saren is still on Eden Prime. Then he disappears and you kill his minions and get knocked out by the beacon. Where did Saren go? He probably had an extra shuttle or something. It really doesn't matter.
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Aug 1, 2014 05:07
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Waltzing Along posted:Here's a ME1 question that bugs me every time I see it now. Right after Saren shoots Nihlus, Sovereign takes off in the background, yet Saren is still on Eden Prime. Then he disappears and you kill his minions and get knocked out by the beacon. Where did Saren go? This is explained in the tie-in comic, Mass Effect: Dirge.
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Aug 1, 2014 05:17
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The most upset we see Shepard in the series is not when she's betrayed by Udina and the Council, loses a crewmate on Virmire, gets her crew juiced by the collectors or her love interest dies. It's not the years spent trying to impotently warn the galaxy only to be arrested for your efforts. No, it's when Kai Leng takes off after a scripted boss fight which he spends almost entirely standing in clear view, invulnerable and "charging his shields." This is the single greatest loss the crew of the Normandy ever faced. I see the argument for that making you hate the character and want him dead, but all it gave me was a sense of resigned dread that I would certainly have to interact with him at least one more time, and possibly see Shepard get "defeated" even harder.
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Aug 1, 2014 09:29
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If Kai Leng was intended as a comical try hard, then I guess we should ask why Bioware wanted Cerberus' gameplay figurehead (TIM being the plot figurehead) to be a total joke. In the super serious grim apocalyptic atmosphere of the third game, I can't believe that we weren't meant to take the force we spent half our time fighting seriously. Never attribute to malice what can be put down to Bioware's lovely writing. Dan Didio posted:This is explained in the tie-in comic, Mass Effect: Dirge. I'm on to you. All real Mass effect tie ins have terrible 'ion' titles. Mass Effect: Commercialisation 
Strategic Tea fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 09:48
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*shepard punches kai lengs stupid sword into a million bits* *kai leng lays dying* *shepard pulls off his cyber shades* "Konrad Verner?!" "You were supposed to be a hero, Shephard, hyneeeeer..." *dies*
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Aug 1, 2014 10:44
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Kajeesus posted:dread that I would certainly have to interact with him at least one more time, and possibly see Shepard get "defeated" even harder. Clearly an awful attempt at writing an adversary for the player, yeah.
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Aug 1, 2014 10:54
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