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What is the best version of El? This poll is closed. |
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| Elminster |
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20 | 6.45% |
| Elmara |
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20 | 6.45% |
| Entwine |
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13 | 4.19% |
| GURPS |
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99 | 31.94% |
| El Kabong |
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153 | 49.35% |
| Elves |
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5 | 1.61% |
| Total: | 310 votes | ||
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Wait did he get a copy of the book that was suddenly Dark Sun after the race section or something? Some people don't like heroic adventure, they like trying to steal a door because the GM made the mistake of saying it was gold colored. (Which is fine if everyone's down with it, but usually this isn't the case)
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Aug 4, 2014 04:49
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Kai Tave posted:I actually remember someone on RPGnet complaining about how unrealistic and bad Eberron was because it had airships but no tanks, and to illustrate his point he bought up RTS tech-trees as an example. "How did they jump from infantry to airships!?!?! It just makes no sense!" Tanks were an explicit response to automatic fire and land mines. Sure, steam-powered vehicles are available, and so are continuous tracks, and actual steam-powered, tracked military vehicles are historically documented as early as the end of the Crimean War. It isn't that hard to make them armored. However, if you don't even have gunpowder, heavily armored vehicles just don't make sense strategically. There's little that can tear through a vehicle anyways, and the mobility loss is a significant disadvantage. The real question is, can we expect mechanized infantry in Last War II?
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Aug 4, 2014 04:55
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Wait did he get a copy of the book that was suddenly Dark Sun after the race section or something? The worst/best part is that enough people were like "Can we strip a Warforged for parts if they have the Adamantine Body/Mithril body feats" that they put a specific FAQ entry that was basically "No. Also, gross."
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Aug 4, 2014 05:11
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I remember that Dragon Magazine.
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Aug 4, 2014 05:14
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Lightning Lord posted:Some people don't like heroic adventure, they like trying to steal a door because the GM made the mistake of saying it was gold colored.
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Aug 4, 2014 05:58
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Lightning Lord posted:Some people don't like heroic adventure, they like trying to steal a door because the GM made the mistake of saying it was gold colored. An amateur move at best. Everyone knows the highest value/encumbrance ratio form of vandalism is prying the gems out of statue's eyes.
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Aug 4, 2014 06:10
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Hey guys: Kai_Tave suggested TG could use a "self-publishing advice and discussion" thread (layout software, publishing tools, maybe how to Kickstart if that wouldn't overlap with the KS thread), and/or a thread about how to get freelance work making games. I feel both threads would need a stronger opening post than I can be bothered giving them right now, though, so I am putting out a CALL. Any tradgoons who think TG could use such a thread and are able to write a solid OP, please do!
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Aug 4, 2014 08:22
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Ettin posted:Hey guys: I don't feel qualified to OP a thread for self-publishing until my game is actually you know... published, but I'd be happy to contribute to such a thread. I wouldn't mind seeing a work for hire thread like the one in creative commons but specifically for game related stuff (writers, designers, artists). RPG.net has an entire forum dedicated to freelancers, but I'd rather give my money to goons.
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Aug 4, 2014 09:19
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Bucnasti posted:I don't feel qualified to OP a thread for self-publishing until my game is actually you know... published, but I'd be happy to contribute to such a thread. Work for hire stuff would be a good inclusion as well. Basically we have an industry thread but that's more for kibbutzing about what various publishers do, and we have a "get off your rear end and finish your homebrew" that touches on some self-publishing aspects, but I thought it might be good to have an all-in-one "publishing and selling elfgame related works" thread given that a number of tradgames posters have direct experience in that regard (including Ettin, modest though he is). Things like how to organize and run a Kickstarter (and the pitfalls thereof), how to commission art and what you should expect to budget, how to register yourself as a corporation, things like that. And work-for-hire along with good people and places to look offsite for things like art, links to Creative Commons resources, etc.
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Aug 4, 2014 09:33
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Kai Tave posted:Work for hire stuff would be a good inclusion as well. Basically we have an industry thread but that's more for kibbutzing about what various publishers do, and we have a "get off your rear end and finish your homebrew" that touches on some self-publishing aspects, but I thought it might be good to have an all-in-one "publishing and selling elfgame related works" thread given that a number of tradgames posters have direct experience in that regard (including Ettin, modest though he is). Things like how to organize and run a Kickstarter (and the pitfalls thereof), how to commission art and what you should expect to budget, how to register yourself as a corporation, things like that. And work-for-hire along with good people and places to look offsite for things like art, links to Creative Commons resources, etc. Yeah I've gotten a lot of good advice from TG, but it's been scattered around on three or four different threads, having a single dedicated place to discuss and consolidate info would be great. If nobody else has the bandwidth to make such a thread I'll do it, I just feel like a lot of my info is still theory until I've actually put it into practice myself.
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Aug 4, 2014 09:57
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Bucnasti posted:Yeah I've gotten a lot of good advice from TG, but it's been scattered around on three or four different threads, having a single dedicated place to discuss and consolidate info would be great. If nobody else has the bandwidth to make such a thread I'll do it, I just feel like a lot of my info is still theory until I've actually put it into practice myself. I'd just go ahead and do it - if there's problems with your info it'll be hashed out in discussion, and you can always edit the OP. You'd do a great job!
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Aug 4, 2014 10:18
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What the hell has happened, what did you people do to Winson?
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Aug 4, 2014 12:36
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He got a real job.
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Aug 4, 2014 12:40
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"He gazed at the enormous collection of books. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of wonders were hidden beneath those covers. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the true meaning and heritage of roleplaying! But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. Winson loved D&D 5E."
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Aug 4, 2014 13:47
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Lichtenstein posted:What the hell has happened, what did you people do to Winson? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYS0ZZdsnA
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Aug 4, 2014 13:49
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Tollymain posted:"He gazed at the enormous collection of books. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of wonders were hidden beneath those covers. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the true meaning and heritage of roleplaying! But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. Winson loved D&D 5E." thought this was don quioxte for a second  winson irl, reading his gurps collection for dming ideas
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Aug 4, 2014 13:50
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never mind i like this idea better
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Aug 4, 2014 14:18
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Mystic Mongol posted:Follow the natural chain of logic to inventing guns and you get--wands of magic missile.
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Aug 4, 2014 14:34
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Ettin posted:Hey guys: Good luck, I asked for this thread for like two years and no one made it. MAYBE Y'ALL WILL MAKE IT FOR THE NEW GUY. Actually, I hope so. That would be a neat thread. Bucnasti posted:Yeah I've gotten a lot of good advice from TG, but it's been scattered around on three or four different threads, having a single dedicated place to discuss and consolidate info would be great. If nobody else has the bandwidth to make such a thread I'll do it, I just feel like a lot of my info is still theory until I've actually put it into practice myself. Try it anyway, maybe use it as a LIVEBLOG for your KS experience. OH NO, TAXES. OH MY UNEXPECTED NONSENSE. And so on. People could follow your THRILLING KS DRAMA. Plus it would totes boost signal on the KS itself. Forums Terrorist posted:thought this was don quioxte for a second THis picture owns hard.
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Aug 4, 2014 15:02
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I have that one saved as PendragonGM.jpg.
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Aug 4, 2014 15:04
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Kai Tave posted:and we have a "get off your rear end and finish your homebrew" Seizing the moment to say something vaguely related here. I've been trying to start up a thread on writing adventures (specifically for general use, rather than "for my gaming group"). So far not a lot of interest; is there another thread where this sort of thing belongs?
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Aug 4, 2014 15:29
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MadScientistWorking posted:Which is the most god awfully boring place you can take it. Its really my major problem with D&D in general in that when you have a tremendous amount of wiggle room to play with you just end up with what is the most boring safest option out there. The various complaints about how Eberron should totally have guns aren't really any more creative though. As soon as a certain subset of nerd sees anything in a fantasy game that's even slightly more advanced than your standard Tolkienian pastiche they immediately leap straight to gunpowder and latch onto it singlemindedly.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:18
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Do like exalted and have guns that are actually tiny magic flamethrowers then.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:23
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Exalted also had like three kinds of magic rayguns because the First Age was actually a science fiction setting, and then Alchemicals can take Megaman's arm cannon. edit; though actually Warforged can also take like an arm crossbow with infinite ammo so you can kinda get close to that.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:27
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Kai Tave posted:Exalted also had like three kinds of magic rayguns because the First Age was actually a science fiction setting, and then Alchemicals can take Megaman's arm cannon. And people still bitched because only one of them fired solid bullets.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:27
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Kai Tave posted:Exalted also had like three kinds of magic rayguns because the First Age was actually a science fiction setting, and then Alchemicals can take Megaman's arm cannon. And it kicked rear end so the court stands. Adjourned! *bangs gavel*
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Aug 4, 2014 17:28
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Kai Tave posted:The various complaints about how Eberron should totally have guns aren't really any more creative though. As soon as a certain subset of nerd sees anything in a fantasy game that's even slightly more advanced than your standard Tolkienian pastiche they immediately leap straight to gunpowder and latch onto it singlemindedly. And any attempts at having firearms in D&D always end up being pretty horrible rules-wise, usually in the "this is functionally useless" category.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:30
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Some reborn Solar finds a glorious First Age relic buried deep within a tomb filled with the most treacherous traps and guardians known to Creation...a wand of magic missile with the serial numbers filed off and "implosion bow" written on it in marker.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:30
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Slimnoid posted:And any attempts at having firearms in D&D always end up being pretty horrible rules-wise, usually in the "this is functionally useless" category. Last year I ran a 3.5 game using the primitive gunpowder weaponry rules in the DMG, the group's halfing rogue was able to whoop pretty hard with his masterwork musket.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:41
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Slimnoid posted:And any attempts at having firearms in D&D always end up being pretty horrible rules-wise, usually in the "this is functionally useless" category. People always want guns in D&D, but they never want them to be as dangerous/deadly as guns. So they just wind up being crossbows that take longer to reload and explode when you take fire damage.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:41
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Slimnoid posted:And any attempts at having firearms in D&D always end up being pretty horrible rules-wise, usually in the "this is functionally useless" category. Okay, so basically, they are better crossbows with longer reload times. They're Brutal 2, high crit, and match up with Hand Crossbows (pistols), Light Crossbows (carbines), and Superior Crossbows (muskets). All of them are Reload Standard, but you can speed that up to Minor with a feat. (Like the old version of Firearm Expertise, which we're using.) My house rule is that your Attack and Damage for Ranged Basic Attacks with guns are equal to whatever you're best at, kinda like the Arena Fighter's feature. You get your best stat and best feat bonuses with them. This has made them almost everyone's backup weapon, which is exactly what I was aiming for. It also encourages fire-and-forget flintlock tactics. Now, I have one player who wanted to use a pair of pistols. Much to my surprise, there's literally no class that's a good idea for, in 4e. I was making a custom gunslinger class for her out of the Scout chassis, but in the end decided it'd be easier to just reskin a musket as the pair. And once she hit 5th level, they turned into six-shooters for her, so that works even better. (And at 11th, she can turn them into loving RAY GUNS.  )Evil Mastermind posted:People always want guns in D&D, but they never want them to be as dangerous/deadly as guns. So they just wind up being crossbows that take longer to reload and explode when you take fire damage.  There's other possible rules in the book, including "add 2W to damage" and "get obscured by a cloud of smoke" but I found that my addition hits the feel I was looking for out of flintlocks. dwarf74 fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Aug 4, 2014 |
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Aug 4, 2014 17:46
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quote:Now, I have one player who wanted to use a pair of pistols. Much to my surprise, there's literally no class that's a good idea for, in 4e. Rogues get a feat that lets them attack again with an offhand hand crossbow if they're using them, plus there's some Drow support, but it's not terribly well supported.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:53
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RPZip posted:Rogues get a feat that lets them attack again with an offhand hand crossbow if they're using them, plus there's some Drow support, but it's not terribly well supported. It works fine reskinned the way I did it, though. I'm totally fine with d10b2 high crit pistols, when used as a pair. If she were using a musket, it wouldn't be any different. She's also a minotaur of all things, which I guess bears mention for the sweet visual. Note, however, that there's a remarkable dearth of gunslinger minotaur miniatures.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:58
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Evil Mastermind posted:People always want guns in D&D, but they never want them to be as dangerous/deadly as guns. So they just wind up being crossbows that take longer to reload and explode when you take fire damage. The odd thing is, getting an arrow in the skull or a sword through the sternum isn't exactly healthier than getting shot with a pistol. A character with 20 Strength can technically bench 400lbs, and I don't know the exact formula for converting that into swing strength, but I'm pretty sure it means they could probably chop someone in half lengthways.
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Aug 4, 2014 18:01
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dwarf74 posted:We're having a good time with them in our 4e Zeitgeist campaign, although I confess to a house rule or two. Unrelated to guns, how are you liking 4e Zeitgeist? I'm getting ready to run it and I'm curious how well the encounters work as written or if I'll end up having to re-balance stuff like I did with War of the Burning Sky.
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Aug 4, 2014 18:01
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Fuego Fish posted:The odd thing is, getting an arrow in the skull or a sword through the sternum isn't exactly healthier than getting shot with a pistol. A character with 20 Strength can technically bench 400lbs, and I don't know the exact formula for converting that into swing strength, but I'm pretty sure it means they could probably chop someone in half lengthways. the lengthwise bisection can even happen in real life, Norman longeaxemen actually hacked through horses and riders with single strikes at the Battle of Hastings. Surely a fighter with the strength of a Hill Giant can do better.
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Aug 4, 2014 18:02
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The problem is there isn't really a good way to have a dedicated firearm user in a setting/game that's primarily focused on classic D&D tropes. Single shot backup weapons are one thing, and a great way to do it if you're doing some kind of Renaissance or high seas or other emerging firearms setting, but it's pretty weird to have someone who uses something like reliable six shooters that are at least somewhat generally available and everyone else is still also using bows and swords. I think at that point you need to start redesigning the game to a much greater degree, introducing more strongly mechanically represented reasons why guns haven't taken over everything the way they did in the real world, or just say gently caress it, reskin bows as guns, and move on.
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Aug 4, 2014 18:03
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Fuego Fish posted:The odd thing is, getting an arrow in the skull or a sword through the sternum isn't exactly healthier than getting shot with a pistol. A character with 20 Strength can technically bench 400lbs, and I don't know the exact formula for converting that into swing strength, but I'm pretty sure it means they could probably chop someone in half lengthways. Well, the real benefits of guns are that, like crossbows, they fire fast and don't take a lot of training to use on a basic level...and they can punch through contemporary armor real nice. And then of course they become extremely light, safe and fast to reload eventually. Plus, they're easier to manufacture than crossbows and for the big ones don't require physical strength to reload. 'Lethality' is not really one of them when it comes to unarmored targets because...yeah, a sword or arrow in the right place kills a guy just as dead.
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Aug 4, 2014 18:04
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Getting chopped in half sounds deadlier than getting shot in the torso unless its like by a RPG. Or a point blank shotgun. Or an anti-material rifle.
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Aug 4, 2014 18:08
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dwarf74 posted:Yeah, I found some support for melee + pistol, mostly feats, but 2 pistols are a lovely option by default. Kinda, yeah. I just went and looked it up since I was curious. Two-Fisted Shooter You can treat the hand crossbow as an off-hand weapon, and you can reload it one handed as a free action. When you score a critical hit and have a loaded hand crossbow in your offhand, you can make a ranged basic attack with that weapon as a free action. I always interpreted this as being less "get into melee and then have a free attack with a crit", because it'll provoke OAs, and more "time to dual wield these", but it sounds like your solution was just as good if not better.
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Aug 4, 2014 18:09
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