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Jedit posted:In The Ultimates the Wasp is a mutant pretending to be a science enhanced human because if it got out that she was a mutant her public profile would be ruined. It's not weird, they hate mutants because mutants are different. People like sex but hate gays, this is the same. That does seem weird though and not like being gay at all. People don't hate people who are born gay but accept people who got turned gay by science, magic, or cosmic space rays. It seems weird that the Fantastic Four are celebrities because Space Rays gave them powers while the X-Men are pariahs. It'd be better for the film universes to stay separate in my opinion.
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Aug 4, 2014 15:11
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Also the way even the friendly mutant Xavier was talking about being the next stage in evolution. People wouldn't like being told they're the past and to get out of the future's way.
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Aug 4, 2014 15:13
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EmmyOk posted:That does seem weird though and not like being gay at all. People don't hate people who are born gay but accept people who got turned gay by science, magic, or cosmic space rays. "You're just an innocent victim, son. Nobody could have forseen that rampaging herd of rainbow glitter space unicorns what made you gay! Don't you despair though, son, we still remember the perfect little hetero boy you were - we'll never forget! Use your new queer powers for good....redecorate our house!"
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Aug 4, 2014 15:17
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EmmyOk posted:That does seem weird though and not like being gay at all. People don't hate people who are born gay but accept people who got turned gay by science, magic, or cosmic space rays. It seems weird that the Fantastic Four are celebrities because Space Rays gave them powers while the X-Men are pariahs. What I'd like to see from a Spider-Man film is something like newspaper Spider-Man. I'd like it to be set in a world where all Marvel super heroes and villains exist, and they're just constantly in brief cameos or in the background and the main plot is Spider-Man fighting some normal human who put on a costume and decided to be a super villain, and losing. In the end he manages to defeat the villain by pure luck. Also, a good third of the film should be focused on J Jonah Jameson. Just tell Stan Lee to write a Spider-Man film then stand back and let the magic happen.
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Aug 4, 2014 15:25
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EmmyOk posted:That does seem weird though and not like being gay at all. People don't hate people who are born gay but accept people who got turned gay by science, magic, or cosmic space rays. It seems weird that the Fantastic Four are celebrities because Space Rays gave them powers while the X-Men are pariahs. It'd be better for the film universes to stay separate in my opinion. You're missing the point, I know not how. Powers are not being gay, powers are relationships, emotions and sex. There's no difference in the love and desire that exists between a gay couple and that between a straight couple, and though it's not something I'd ever do I doubt sex with a man feels any different to the equivalent act performed on or by a woman. So why do people hate gays and deem their feelings to be unnatural? Answer: because gays aren't doing it the same way they do. It's the same with powers. I want to fly, I buy a plane ticket - or if I'm rich, a plane. When Tony Stark wants to fly he puts on his suit, which is just a different kind of flying machine. I can't afford it, but I can understand it and if I had the suit I could do the same. But when someone flies under his own power, that's unnatural.
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Aug 4, 2014 15:42
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Tiggum posted:Also, have you noticed that gay people don't have super powers? I'm starting to think that this analogy doesn't match up 100%. I understand that it's not going to be an exact analogy nor is it meant to be, but it works much better as separate universe than as part of the whole Marvel one is all I'm saying. Jedit posted:
Ok so how come the human torch is beloved in the Marvel world?
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Aug 4, 2014 15:50
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EmmyOk posted:I understand that it's not going to be an exact analogy nor is it meant to be, but it works much better as separate universe than as part of the whole Marvel one is all I'm saying. Marketing and Public Relations. Seriously, that's like the whole gimmick of the Fantastic Four. Even both of the lovely movies explain this is because Reed felt so guilty that he turned his friends and family into freaks that he made them a freak show rather than outcasts.
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Aug 4, 2014 16:21
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EmmyOk posted:
Comic Geeky Answer: Depends. There is one version where Mr Fantastic explains to the reader (by virtue of telling the story to his infant daughter) that due to his guilt about being responsible for the accident that gave them powers (and particularly the Thing as he has zero chance of living a normal life) he decided that he would make sure that they became celebrities, looked up to instead of feared and hated like the mutants are. Hence calling himself "Mr Fantastic", leader of the "Fantastic Four", who drives the "Fantasticar" and lives in a building called "4 freedoms plaza" where the top 25 floors are shaped like a giant number 4. Branding to an extent the Kardashians would be faintly embaressed about. Essentially, have you never met someone who was racist but still liked the rock or Sammy Davis Jr, or was homophobic but still liked the guy from big bang theory or some elton john songs or similar? The FF are celebrities. Having said that, its a big retcon to explain some stuff that seemed like a good idea at the time when creating a comicbook about a family of space explorers to sell to children in the 60s. Over the years the FF have not always been well loved by the people of the marvel universe. Neither have the Avengers (As a group and individually, including captain america), the X-men, Spider-man or really any other characterss. Mutants are irrationally hated and feared because it is a metaphor for civil rights/homosexuality dependiing on the era. They are also hated and feared because it lets the writers tell a different story from an Avengers or Fantastic Four story. The in-universe explaination is sometimes the fear that mutants could be any one, any where. They could be living in your town, they could be dating your daughter. Your child could turn out to be a mutant even, and what would that say about your genes? Also, the fantastic four very visibly fight cosmic threats (eg Galactus, an enormous planet eating man in a giant purple helmet) and publicly save the earth. The Avengers fight off threats like alien invasions. The X-men... fight mainly other mutants. Mutant on mutant violence doesnt endear mutants (as a group) to the general public. When the X-men do save the world from a huge threat, there is often time travvel/alternate universes/the whole thing happenin light years away so that no-one on earth knows. Plus the human torch doesnt have senators manipulating public opinion against him for nefarious purposes (unlike mutants).
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Aug 4, 2014 16:36
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Other superheroes are seen as [majority], but altered. Mutants are something different, a whole emerging minority. None of your kids will spontaneously turn into Daredevil and you don't have to worry about a family of Iron Mans moving in next door.
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Aug 4, 2014 16:49
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SiKboy posted:Comic Geeky Answer: Depends. There is one version where Mr Fantastic explains to the reader (by virtue of telling the story to his infant daughter) that due to his guilt about being responsible for the accident that gave them powers (and particularly the Thing as he has zero chance of living a normal life) he decided that he would make sure that they became celebrities, looked up to instead of feared and hated like the mutants are. Hence calling himself "Mr Fantastic", leader of the "Fantastic Four", who drives the "Fantasticar" and lives in a building called "4 freedoms plaza" where the top 25 floors are shaped like a giant number 4. Branding to an extent the Kardashians would be faintly embaressed about. Essentially, have you never met someone who was racist but still liked the rock or Sammy Davis Jr, or was homophobic but still liked the guy from big bang theory or some elton john songs or similar? The FF are celebrities. That's a pretty excellent answer actually
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Aug 4, 2014 16:51
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Seventh Arrow posted:I think the problem with Amazing Spider-Man 2 was villain overdose. Although Rhino barely counts because his entire involvement in the film could be seen in the trailer, man that was terrible. I didn't like how Norman Osborn was built up to be an important figure only to die in the beginning moments to give the villain spotlight to Harry. ASM's Harry isn't as great as the Raimi one.
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Aug 4, 2014 17:19
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Tiggum posted:Also, have you noticed that gay people don't have super powers? I'm starting to think that this analogy doesn't match up 100%. Open a Marvel book some time. You'd be surprised.
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Aug 4, 2014 23:26
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On a related note, it bothered me in Thord: The Dark World how easily the Dark Elf monster swatted Mjolnir aside like it was nothing.
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Aug 4, 2014 23:35
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Stupid thing to complain about, but when I heard that X-Men: Days of Future Past was going to be set in 1973, I was really hoping that this was going to be in the soundtrack. I mean: you have a universe full of weird characters that dress in bizarre costumes, and a story set in the 70s, and you don't use David Bowie? Hell, the last couplet alone would have been worth it:Oh You Pretty Things posted:Look at your children
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Aug 4, 2014 23:49
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Slime posted:Why are these guys with powers acceptable but this other group isn't? Prejudice makes zero sense in the real world too, but people still have it. Hating mutants but loving Spider-Man and the Avengers (including the Hulk!) is completely hypocritical, but that's kind of the point - mutants aren't universally evil monsters who lust for human extinction, but a significant portion of the population of the Marvel Universe are freaked out, scared and angry about them while they look up to juiced up superhuman Captain America and think that a ludicrously wealthy billionaire hoarding amazing technological achievements for his own personal use is the best thing ever.
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Aug 5, 2014 00:16
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I think part of it is the average schmo can think "Man, if I just got lucky enough, or worked hard enough, or was smart enough, I could be one of those guys" when they think of Iron Man or Captain America. Since they started as baseline humans, they're relatable; they're achievable in some remote way. With mutants, you are or you aren't. You can't hope to have what they have, ever, which makes them intolerable. It reminds me of the quote by Steinbeck: “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” Normal people in the Marvel universe see themselves as Tony Stark without a suit and Johnny Storm waiting on his cosmic radiation exposure, just waiting for their moment to come. The reality that they will almost certainly never be super powered makes no more difference to them than the fact that they will never be rich; the fact that it's possible at all makes it okay. marshmallow creep has a new favorite as of 03:32 on Aug 5, 2014 |
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Aug 5, 2014 03:27
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I don't know if this is the right place for this, as the last few pages have kind of turned into PYF Social Commentary in Superhero Fiction, but I really hate the new iterations of the Die Hard franchise. The first movie was great, the sequel was less so, then they move away from what I thought was the interesting hook for the films: John McClane being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Die Hard 3 is famously a Lethal Weapon script (even though I love how Willis and Jackson's characters meet) but 4... 4 poo poo the bed bad. I'll narrow my irritation to the moment that John McClane's son (right? it's his son, I think) grabs a strangers phone so he can hack into... well, pretty much whatever he wants. He's such a good hacker that he can take any device and with a few button presses turns it into a skeleton key for even the most secure systems. It's lucky that the person he stole the phone from opted for the satellite internet plan, so the kid wouldn't have to hack into people's WiFi networks while driving around with daddy.
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Aug 5, 2014 19:17
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Your thinking of die hard 4 and apple boy was just some random hacker dude, I think maybe Johns daughter was dating him. Either way besides a few funny moments like John covering up the camera thinking the bad guy can't hear him was the most horrible of the die hard franchise.
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Aug 5, 2014 21:39
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Darth Freddy posted:Your thinking of die hard 4 and apple boy was just some random hacker dude, I think maybe Johns daughter was dating him. Either way besides a few funny moments like John covering up the camera thinking the bad guy can't hear him was the most horrible of the die hard franchise. Nope. 4 wasn't good but it was kind of fun. 5 (AKA: the Russian one) is godawful all the way through.
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Aug 5, 2014 22:11
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nucleicmaxid posted:The only thing about the movie that really got on my nerves was when they're at the very end and they all have the infinity stone, and the badguy is like HOW YOU ARE MORTALS!? and Quinn delivers a line like 'lol u no y bich, we're the gardens of the galaxy' and it's just really, really bad. But I hate those sort of lines in general. I kind of hate lines like that, too, but this bothers me less and less over time. It's perfectly in character to be an eyerollingly smug rear end in a top hat in that moment, I think.
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Aug 5, 2014 22:29
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The "bitch" crack is what ruined it for me. It was a very important moment ruined by sophomoric writing. I don't care if you're writing to a ticket-buying demographic, don't ruin an otherwise good thing for all-time just because your target audience is 14. You're not 14, don't write like it.
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Aug 5, 2014 22:38
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AlternateAccount posted:I kind of hate lines like that, too, but this bothers me less and less over time. It's perfectly in character to be an eyerollingly smug rear end in a top hat in that moment, I think. Yeah. Ronin used it to mock them while whooping their rear end, then Quill uses it to mock him back. Its cheesy but its totally in character.
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Aug 5, 2014 23:29
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Slim Killington posted:You're not 14, don't write like it. Actually James Gunn did write it.
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Aug 5, 2014 23:38
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Slim Killington posted:Guardians of the Galaxy was excellent but there's a scene in which two characters get stuck floating out in space and it's terrible. I can't even imagine how an entire team of people thought an audience would just suspend that much disbelief, and even then, it's so poorly done and awkward that we cringed for its entire duration. I can't believe it made it off the development table. They specifically consulted with NASA for that scene to make sure it was plausible enough to handwave.
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Aug 6, 2014 05:37
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I have lots of fun every time I watch Live Free or Die Hard and it makes me sad that everyone else seems to hate it.
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Aug 6, 2014 05:42
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oldpainless posted:I have lots of fun every time I watch Live Free or Die Hard and it makes me sad that everyone else seems to hate it. Die Hard 3 was so fun (I was a kid then) and then 4 comes along and my disbelief was not suspended like that loving helicopter he hits with a car.  (I pretty much liked it)
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Aug 6, 2014 05:49
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Don't get me wrong I loved Die Hard 4, I just think its the weakest of them. Still a great movie, just not at the top of the list. Edit. in order. Die Hard Die hard with a vengeance Die Hard 2 ≤ A good day to die Hard. Live free or die hard Darth Freddy has a new favorite as of 05:54 on Aug 6, 2014 |
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Aug 6, 2014 05:50
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Thor was made in 2011, with a budget of $150 million. But some of the CGI effects are just absolute crap. For the most part, it looks just fine, but every now and then there's these shots where the CGI looks more like something out of Riven than a major film from within the last decade.
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Aug 6, 2014 10:58
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Here's another for Guardians of the Galaxy. Quill is obsessed with Earth culture. He has a spaceship that he got from Yondu, and he knows where Earth is. Why has he never gone home? For gently caress's sake, he has family who would have been living for 20 years not knowing what happened to him.
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Aug 6, 2014 11:42
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Jedit posted:Here's another for Guardians of the Galaxy. I assume it's because losing his mother was so traumatic for him that he never even had the slightest desire to go back. He couldn't even open the last gift she gave him. Going back would just remind him she was gone, when he could instead pretend to be a cool space outlaw criminal
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Aug 6, 2014 11:59
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Jedit posted:Here's another for Guardians of the Galaxy. Where do you think he got the giant tape deck for that spaceship? You think he just built that from memory?
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Aug 6, 2014 13:35
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Besides, I'm sure at that point, word of the battle of new york had made it around enough to know that the next alien ship to land on the planet wouldn't exactly be met with open arms.
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Aug 6, 2014 13:41
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Darth Freddy posted:Don't get me wrong I loved Die Hard 4, I just think its the weakest of them. Still a great movie, just not at the top of the list. Die Hard 2 is however the best game in the Die Hard Trilogy.
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Aug 6, 2014 14:09
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Darth Freddy posted:Don't get me wrong I loved Die Hard 4, I just think its the weakest of them. Still a great movie, just not at the top of the list. The fact that they haven't released one called Old Habits Die Hard is virtually criminal.
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Aug 6, 2014 14:13
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Now that I've seen Guardians, I think I'll hope right back on the Marvel train. With this thread fresh in my head, I couldn't stop thinking critically about the movie's use of that Walkman. Super minor spoilers ahead: A lot of this stuff can be disregarded due to it's comic book/movie status, but I bet if you had one(?) tape and constantly carried your sentimental piece of Earth tech on your waist, one or both would be destroyed within 26 years. The tape from wear, the Walkman from rolling around and getting into fights. Maybe bigger spoilers: Also, stop taking off your mask Star Lord. I know that everyone wants to see that Pratt's face, but I felt like he always took it off at really dumb moments. Like, while exploring an alien ruin (see Prometheus) and then towards the end he puts on the mask to fight, then he takes it off while facing Ronin. He takes it off just a big cloud of smoke/dust comes towards him, which seems like to the worst time to take off your eye protection. The movie also has a talking raccoon and a sentient plant, so I shouldn't get caught up in the minutiae.
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Aug 6, 2014 14:40
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Slim Killington posted:The "bitch" crack is what ruined it for me. It was a very important moment ruined by sophomoric writing. I don't care if you're writing to a ticket-buying demographic, don't ruin an otherwise good thing for all-time just because your target audience is 14. You're not 14, don't write like it. Uh, this is a guy who specifically says, and I quote "They got my dick message!" I really don't think him calling someone a bitch is far outside of his character. I don't know what his comic book persona is like, but Quill in movie form is clearly someone who never really grew up all the way.
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Aug 6, 2014 14:58
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Morpheus posted:Uh, this is a guy who specifically says, and I quote "They got my dick message!" This is exactly why it works. Character development isn't just an instant transformation into a different person. Peter's efforts are towards being a better person and a hero, and even when saving an entire planet at the end of the film, he's still kind of an immature jackass because change happens slowly. He's getting there, they're all getting there, but no one's perfect.
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Aug 6, 2014 15:12
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No, that's why the "dick message" line works. The last one occurs at too important of a plot point and ruins both. The addition of that part neither improves the moment, sharpens the dialogue, or adds to character development -- you can remove it entirely and not only not have the climatic moment changed, but be intact with more focus on it without the addition of something silly to it. There's no case in which removing that doesn't improve the scene.
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Aug 6, 2014 17:46
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Morpheus posted:Uh, this is a guy who specifically says, and I quote "They got my dick message!" I looked at the IMDb goofs after the movie and got irrationally irritated. One of the goofs is about that line: he says, "they got my text message!" when he would have been abducted before text messaging existed. The person who wrote that 1. completely misheard dick as text and 2. missed out on the joke.
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Aug 6, 2014 17:48
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Slim Killington posted:No, that's why the "dick message" line works. The last one occurs at too important of a plot point and ruins both. The addition of that part neither improves the moment, sharpens the dialogue, or adds to character development -- you can remove it entirely and not only not have the climatic moment changed, but be intact with more focus on it without the addition of something silly to it. There's no case in which removing that doesn't improve the scene. I don't think it harmed the scene at all. It works (to me) in the context of Peter being so jazzed up on finally beating the bad guy that he just says the first cool-sounding thing that comes to mind, and because he's still kind of a jackass, that's what it is. He's a better person than he was at the beginning of the film, but he's still kind of an idiot because he's not done growing. I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Aug 6, 2014 18:33
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