California Politics: Madame Senator, this is a morgue

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ShadowHawk: Jun 25, 2000; CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

Bizarro Watt posted:

Is the state government doing much to address the inefficiency in the methods farmers use to get water for their agriculture?

Not likely. Anyone who is in favor of making the price of water more than 1/70 what it is for residential use gets branded "anti-farmer" and runs into powerful lobbies. So instead we will have politicians suggesting things like taking fewer showers.

# ? Aug 7, 2014 11:26

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# ? May 10, 2024 00:51

TACD: Oct 27, 2000

Leperflesh posted:

http://www.businessinsider.com/california-drought-may-mean-people-leave-2014-8

Apparently a UN expert thinks the US may have to (forcibly?) remove people from California if our drought continues.

That seems... maybe a bit premature to me? I mean one option might be to stop growing rice, and another might be to mandate covered irrigation (currently, open-air irrigation channels are the norm, so we lose enormous amounts of fresh water to evaporation). Maybe we can have fewer golf courses! I bet we could cut back on the swimming pools too.

This made me realise I hadn't seen the actual drought monitor graphic in a while, and yikes:

# ? Aug 7, 2014 21:16

FilthyImp: Sep 30, 2002; Anime Deviant

Leperflesh posted:

That seems... maybe a bit premature to me? I mean one option might be to stop growing rice, and another might be to mandate covered irrigation (currently, open-air irrigation channels are the norm, so we lose enormous amounts of fresh water to evaporation). Maybe we can have fewer golf courses! I bet we could cut back on the swimming pools too.

I know the answer is :homebrew:

because gently caress You,

but why in the gently caress are we not covering golf courses with astroturf. The amount of water to keep Not So Shady Acres verdant is just stupid.

# ? Aug 7, 2014 22:04

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

I'm guessing golf courses get to qualify as "green space" and not residential development and therefore pay the same as farmers for water (which is to say, it's cheap as gently caress).

# ? Aug 7, 2014 22:22

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Part of the problem is that there are 3,000+ water districts in California and some have been on mandatory restrictions for a while and some have strict water use regulations. Others don't.

Edit: More on the topic at hand about agriculture.

While Californian agriculture uses a disproportionate amount of the region's water it also produces large amounts of the nation's food. California does lead the way on regulating agricultural water use.

http://www.waterplan.water.ca.gov/docs/cwpu2009/0310final/v2c02_agwtruse_cwp2009.pdf posted:

One indicator of agricultural water use efficiency improvement is that agricultural production per unit of applied water (tons/acre-foot) for 32 important California crops increased by 38 percent from 1980 to 2000 Another indicator is that inflation-adjusted gross crop revenue per unit of applied water (dollars/ acre-foot) increased by 11 percent from 1980 to 2000.

Likewise the price pressure of water in California (even if farmers are paying less than cities, it is one of their biggest costs) further incentives farmers to conserve water.

quote:

Almost all trees and vines established since 1990 are irrigated using micro-irrigation. Between 1990 and 2000, the crop area under micro-irrigation in California grew from 0.8 million to 1.9 million acres, a 138 percent increase (see Table 2-1 and Box 2-4).

Another consideration is the tangle of state and federal laws. Some water is state water, some is federal water. That makes it hard to get some things changed because it might require Washington and Sacramento to both resist lobbying.

Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Aug 7, 2014

# ? Aug 7, 2014 22:33

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

I haven't read that article, but taken on its own the improved production per unit of water statistic is very misleading. The use of advanced herbicides and pesticides in conjunction with GMO crops has driven up yields substantially between 1980 and 2000, irrespective of watering methods. They're also making an economic, and not a water conservation, argument, by indexing their statistic to "inflation-adjusted" revenue in terms of dollars/acre-foot. 11 percent is small enough to easily be consumed by a rise in prices for specific crops that outpace inflation, or also by the aforementioned increase in crop yields.

In other words, it seems to be arguing that we're getting more food for how much water we use, which is great, but does not mean that we're wasting less water.

# ? Aug 7, 2014 23:05

Xandu: Feb 19, 2006; It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.

Trabisnikof posted:

While Californian agriculture uses a disproportionate amount of the region's water it also produces large amounts of the nation's food. California does lead the way on regulating agricultural water use.

If the drought does continue to the point where the amount of crops in California has to be seriously cut back, how badly does that impact US food supply?

# ? Aug 7, 2014 23:06

Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

The united states is so literally awash in food that we pay farmers not to grow things.

We could see shortages of specific foodstuffs like almonds or rice or whatever, but the US will be the last country on earth to face significant food shortages.

Prices could rise though. We might have to start paying like a whole 10% of our average incomes for food! (number pulled from my rear end but you get the point)

# ? Aug 7, 2014 23:08

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Leperflesh posted:

I haven't read that article, but taken on its own the improved production per unit of water statistic is very misleading. The use of advanced herbicides and pesticides in conjunction with GMO crops has driven up yields substantially between 1980 and 2000, irrespective of watering methods. They're also making an economic, and not a water conservation, argument, by indexing their statistic to "inflation-adjusted" revenue in terms of dollars/acre-foot. 11 percent is small enough to easily be consumed by a rise in prices for specific crops that outpace inflation, or also by the aforementioned increase in crop yields.

In other words, it seems to be arguing that we're getting more food for how much water we use, which is great, but does not mean that we're wasting less water.

Well its a report from the California Dept. of Water Resources, so it actually goes into depth about all the details about different reduction plans and the changes in irrigation methods.

Xandu posted:

If the drought does continue to the point where the amount of crops in California has to be seriously cut back, how badly does that impact US food supply?

That's a good question, for context California produces 99% of the US's: Almonds, Artichokes, Dates, Figs, Raisins, Kiwifruit, Olives, Clingstone Peaches, Pistachios, Dried Plums, Pomegranates, Sweet Rice, Ladino Clover Seed (?), and Walnuts. Along with being a large producer of a ton of other things (http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/PDFs/ResourceDirectory_2013-2014.pdf).

However at the end of the day if one of the things you need (water) is scarcer, the price of your product will go up. Food prices will increase.

# ? Aug 7, 2014 23:27

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Trabisnikof posted:

That's a good question, for context California produces 99% of the US's: Almonds, Artichokes, Dates, Figs, Raisins, Kiwifruit, Olives, Clingstone Peaches, Pistachios, Dried Plums, Pomegranates, Sweet Rice, Ladino Clover Seed (?), and Walnuts. Along with being a large producer of a ton of other things (http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/PDFs/ResourceDirectory_2013-2014.pdf).

I'm guessing these are "things the US makes" rather than "things available in US markets" (for example, most of the olives I see are from somewhere in Europe rather than California).

# ? Aug 7, 2014 23:40

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Xandu posted:

If the drought does continue to the point where the amount of crops in California has to be seriously cut back, how badly does that impact US food supply?

Probably significantly if you enjoy certain foods.

More importantly on a state level, a reduction in ag output would have a serious impact on the central valley with is already extremely poor. However, farmers could do a lot more to reduce water use with a reasonably negligible cost increase. The problem is that water prices are so low as to encourage waste.
Also, worth noting that a lot of these "farmers" actually farm a small amount and sell their share of underpriced water to southern california cities.

# ? Aug 7, 2014 23:53

Family Values: Jun 26, 2007

quote:

A marijuana plant can consume five to 10 gallons of water, depending on the point in its growth cycle. By comparison, a head of lettuce, another of California�s major crops, needs about 3.5 gallons of water.

Dry California Fights Illegal Use of Water for Cannabis

The article is kind of light on data so I can't tell if this is a serious issue or if the drought is just being used as an excuse to crack down on growers. Diverting streams is obviously bad, but how common is that?

# ? Aug 8, 2014 00:07

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

computer parts posted:

I'm guessing these are "things the US makes" rather than "things available in US markets" (for example, most of the olives I see are from somewhere in Europe rather than California).

Yes those are agricultural production %s not consumption %s. (It appears that 70-80% of the ripe olives consumed in the US were grown in CA...so its probably the crappy ones http://aic.ucdavis.edu/profiles/olives.pdf)

Family Values posted:

Dry California Fights Illegal Use of Water for Cannabis

The article is kind of light on data so I can't tell if this is a serious issue or if the drought is just being used as an excuse to crack down on growers. Diverting streams is obviously bad, but how common is that?

I've heard several researchers call illegal grows the largest threat to Californian Salmon due to the disruptions they create along with the water withdraws.

I'm sure a grow-house in LA uses less water per plant than an illegal grow in the middle of a national forest.

# ? Aug 8, 2014 00:20

Zachack: Jun 1, 2000

Leperflesh posted:

I'm guessing golf courses get to qualify as "green space" and not residential development and therefore pay the same as farmers for water (which is to say, it's cheap as gently caress).

Some (dunno the percent) golf courses use recycled water. A decade ago wastewater plants that wanted to produce recycled water sometimes would tie upgrades to golf course construction because they would buy the water which the plant needed to get rid of. This will shift in the future as recycled water sees more use in other areas.

quote:

The article is kind of light on data so I can't tell if this is a serious issue or if the drought is just being used as an excuse to crack down on growers. Diverting streams is obviously bad, but how common is that?

It's real and they also heavily pollute their areas since they are currently completely unregulated, although that's about to change as regulators are apparently going to go out with LE, although I'm not sure what the idea is. I think the plan is to punish landowners that allow polluting pot farms on their property through discharge regulations. The impact they have is obviously very regional.

# ? Aug 8, 2014 05:58

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

Zachack posted:

Some (dunno the percent) golf courses use recycled water. A decade ago wastewater plants that wanted to produce recycled water sometimes would tie upgrades to golf course construction because they would buy the water which the plant needed to get rid of. This will shift in the future as recycled water sees more use in other areas.

It's real and they also heavily pollute their areas since they are currently completely unregulated, although that's about to change as regulators are apparently going to go out with LE, although I'm not sure what the idea is. I think the plan is to punish landowners that allow polluting pot farms on their property through discharge regulations. The impact they have is obviously very regional.

Southern California will probably only go "toilet to tap" after a pipeline to the Mississippi gets quickly built (or falls through) and peak dry weather water demands start going unmet anyway due to growth or insufficient regulation or whatever and it becomes a choice between desalination and toilet to tap.

Right now, toilet to tap is expensive as hell and is only being considered in west texas. But that'll likely change once energy costs get high enough and desalination becomes (more) unideal.

# ? Aug 8, 2014 08:21

nm: Jan 28, 2008; "I saw Minos the Space Judge holding a golden sceptre and passing sentence upon the Martians. There he presided, and around him the noble Space Prosecutors sought the firm justice of space law."

Family Values posted:

Dry California Fights Illegal Use of Water for Cannabis

The article is kind of light on data so I can't tell if this is a serious issue or if the drought is just being used as an excuse to crack down on growers. Diverting streams is obviously bad, but how common is that?

It is actually a pretty big problem and has been for a long time. I have an acquaintance who manages a large tract of forest in Mendo county and the destruction is pretty bad.
The solution is the legalize and regulate it though. The problem is that it is illegal and unregulated.

# ? Aug 8, 2014 12:42

ShadowHawk: Jun 25, 2000; CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

Southern California will probably only go "toilet to tap" after a pipeline to the Mississippi gets quickly built (or falls through) and peak dry weather water demands start going unmet anyway due to growth or insufficient regulation or whatever and it becomes a choice between desalination and toilet to tap.

Right now, toilet to tap is expensive as hell and is only being considered in west texas. But that'll likely change once energy costs get high enough and desalination becomes (more) unideal.

You don't need to do toilet to tap to use recycled water. It's perfectly reasonable to use non-potable water on things like golf courses and farms.

Also I believe when post-consumer water is made potable again it's "reclaimed water" -- "recycled" generally means treated but still nonpotable.

# ? Aug 8, 2014 13:10

H.P. Hovercraft: Jan 12, 2004; one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse; Slippery Tilde

ShadowHawk posted:

You don't need to do toilet to tap to use recycled water. It's perfectly reasonable to use non-potable water on things like golf courses and farms.

Also I believe when post-consumer water is made potable again it's "reclaimed water" -- "recycled" generally means treated but still nonpotable.

You're right that recycled water is typically non-potable and used for things like irrigation - all they do is just remove the solids and verrrry lightly treat it - reclaimed water is just another term for this.

But treating it to the point that it's potable again is significantly more work, and while it falls under these rubrics it has acquired the much more derisive slang term "toilet to tap" by the people who inevitably push against things like that.

Honestly the better option is using recycled non-potable water for things like toilet flushing and lawn watering, if you're trying to drag down residential water demand. Though the build-out to install non-potable waterlines everywhere isn't gonna happen overnight.

But as mentioned earlier, this is ultimately a small portion of the total water demand in California, particularly during dry weather periods.

# ? Aug 8, 2014 16:15

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Most the water people drink is "toilet to tap", but if we dirty the water by sticking it one of our polluted rivers it magically cleans in most people's minds.

(Yes, I know that's not true for the elites up in the Bay Area)

# ? Aug 8, 2014 18:20

ComradeCosmobot: Dec 4, 2004; USPOL July

Trabisnikof posted:

Most the water people drink is "toilet to tap", but if we dirty the water by sticking it one of our polluted rivers it magically cleans in most people's minds.

(Yes, I know that's not true for the elites up in the Bay Area)

It's true for the 85% of the South Bay that's not right next to Hetch Hetchy pipeline. :ssh:

# ? Aug 8, 2014 18:25

Bizarro Watt: May 30, 2010; My responsibility is to follow the Scriptures which call upon us to occupy the land until Jesus returns.

It actually looks like the legislature is drawing up a bill to regulate the use of groundwater in the state, which is a big deal considering farms more or less have free reign to use as much as they want. As a result, farmers aren't very pleased with it.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/drought/ci_26307724/california-drought-lawmakers-consider-historic-rules-limit-groundwater

quote:

In what would be the most significant water law passed in California in nearly 50 years, lawmakers in Sacramento are working with Gov. Jerry Brown on a landmark measure to regulate groundwater pumping for the first time.

With an Aug. 31 deadline until the end of the session and billions of dollars at stake, negotiations among farmers, environmentalists, cities and elected officials are reaching a crescendo.

Although landowners who want to divert water from reservoirs and rivers have been required to get a permit from the state since 1914, farmers and cities who tap underground aquifers -- California's largest water source -- can pump as much as they want, when they want and with almost no oversight or limits.

...

Snow and other reformers are supporting a bill by state Sen. Fran Pavley, D-Agoura Hills, that would require local government officials, probably counties in most cases, to bring their groundwater basins up to sustainable levels.

If the bill passes, the local agencies would be required to regularly measure water tables and set numerical goals so that only as much water is taken out as is naturally replenished.

...

"At some point in time there has to be some accountability, and we have to get a handle on how much we are pumping," said Paul Wenger, president of the California Farm Bureau Federation.

"But this is bad legislation and we oppose it. We're afraid that if it passes, the unintended consequences are going to be huge. The financial impacts are going to be huge."

Wenger, a third-generation farmer who grows almonds and walnuts on 450 acres on the outskirts of Modesto, said he's worried that the bill is so broadly written that it would allow state regulators to come in and limit the amount of water farmers can pump from wells.

In dry times like the current three-year drought, when rain and snow aren't available and reservoir levels are low, groundwater is vital, he said. One well on his farm is keeping his orchards alive during the drought, Wenger said.

"We're doing everything we can. We're stretching out our water -- we are just getting by," he said. "But if we didn't have access to groundwater, our trees would drop their leaves and slowly die."

Wenger says the Legislature should delay the law until next year for more study.

"We are talking about one of the most critical bills this Legislature will have seen for many years and we've got a month to work through it?" he said. "We feel like we're getting rolled here."

# ? Aug 10, 2014 16:13

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

ShadowHawk posted:

You don't need to do toilet to tap to use recycled water. It's perfectly reasonable to use non-potable water on things like golf courses and farms.

Also I believe when post-consumer water is made potable again it's "reclaimed water" -- "recycled" generally means treated but still nonpotable.

Or just shut down the loving golf courses.

Related: I had a job that required me to work with the management of a giant corporate cemetery in OC once. One of the SUV driving OC manager-douchebags was bragging about the millions of gallons of water they dump on the grass, but its ok because they drilled their own wells to drain groundwater for as long as they could.

It doesnt get to the big-ag problem, but fining/banning grass fetishes would start sending a message in the middle of what might be a very long scorched-earth drought cycle.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 20:43

withak: Jan 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

XKCD was relevant today:

# ? Aug 20, 2014 16:09

FCKGW: May 21, 2006

Depressing Local News:

quote:

RIVERSIDE, CA
At a tense, hours-long meeting that brought at least five police vehicles to Riverside City Hall, Riverside City Council members on Tuesday night rejected a resolution that would have affirmed the city as a place that treats everyone fairly and supports humanitarian assistance for recent immigrants.

Councilman Andy Melendrez, who suggested the nonbinding resolution that would not have committed city funds, said it would have reaffirmed the city�s long commitment to social justice reflected by downtown statues of civil rights leaders such as the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and Mahatma Gandhi.

�We have been a community that has always been a beacon for that, and I believe that our community still is,� Melendrez said Wednesday, adding that he was blindsided by the opposition from the dais.

Before opening the floor Tuesday to dozens of speakers, Mayor William �Rusty� Bailey suggested the resolution was unnecessary because the city has had a �statement of inclusion� since 2001.

Councilmen Mike Gardner, Mike Soubirous and Steve Adams, who voted no, agreed that the resolution may veer into immigration policy, which is federal jurisdiction. Councilmen Paul Davis, Chris Mac Arthur and Jim Perry were absent.

�... I agree with the compassion. I disagree with breaking the rules,� Adams said.

The atmosphere was so tense, a minor altercation outside City Hall led to an arrest and citation for misdemeanor battery.

Melendrez crafted the resolution in response to recent protests in Murrieta, where in July people blocked three busloads of migrants � reportedly largely women and children � from entering an immigration facility for processing, and in Fontana, where some of the migrants were later taken.

Several people who spoke said they were involved in the Murrieta protests, prompting others in the audience to ask angrily why they�re involved with Riverside�s business if they don�t live there.

�I don�t come out from another city and try to impose and threaten council people that if you don�t vote their way, you�re not going to be (re-elected),� Riverside resident Paul Chavez said.

The debate, at times vitriolic, featured plenty of rhetoric but very little nuance, with most speakers either characterizing Melendrez�s proposal as the least residents could do for downtrodden refugees seeking help, or as an intolerable endorsement of lawbreakers who sponge off the United States� social safety net.

�I would really like to see the city of Riverside take leadership and say, �These are people and these are human beings and I welcome them,�� said Fernando Romero of the Justice for Immigrants Coalition of Inland Southern California.

Others rejected the description of the recent wave of immigrants as poor, exploited mothers and children. They argued that the resolution would put a financial burden on Riverside and neighboring communities by attracting people seeking assistance.

�You are advocating equal treatment of everybody, and yet you want the illegals, who include underage gang members, to be more equal and have better treatment than the rest of us,� said Stella Stephens, who didn�t say where she lives.

�How dare you encourage anyone to accept unscreened illegals and expose the rest of us to contagious diseases like TB, hand and foot and mouth disease,� and other diseases, she said.

Several residents cited Riverside schools� 1960s decision to voluntarily desegregate campuses, the 1995 controversy over the naming of Riverside�s Martin Luther King High School and the response to the 1999 Riverside police shooting of Tyisha Miller, a black teenager, as moments when city officials took a stand for justice.

Melendrez said Wednesday that he was surprised Bailey and other councilmen didn�t object to comments �saying that (immigrants) were diseased, they were criminals, and they were individuals living off the system, which had nothing to do with the resolution ... this is a humanitarian matter.�

Gardner, who voted in a subcommittee to send the resolution to the council , said it was a big enough issue for the council to consider but that he didn�t necessarily support the proposal.

Gardner said comments from people outside the city didn�t affect his vote.

�My view is the city is better served by not becoming embroiled in the sort of hot-button social issues that it cannot influence than it is to get involved in them,� Gardner said.

Melendrez said the resolution is dead, but he will pursue a proposal to make Cesar Chavez Day a city holiday in Riverside.

Riverside tries to distance themselves from the lunatics protesting kids fleeing from gang violence, gets overrun by those same protestors arguing against making proclamations for wild ideas like "humane treatment".

Riverside is one of the more laid back and tolerant places in Inland Empire too :smith:

# ? Aug 28, 2014 08:37

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

"You are advocating equal treatment of everybody, and yet you want the illegals, who include underage gang members, to be more equal and have better treatment than the rest of us."

Yep, that's what "equal" means, all right.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 16:22

Grand Theft Autobot: Feb 28, 2008; I'm something of a fucking idiot myself

Are lawn mowing restrictions left to municipalities in CA? Bagging lawn clippings is an incredible waste of water, so in dry conditions the cities here will sometimes tell people they can only mulch their lawns.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 17:08

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Grand Theft Autobot posted:

Are lawn mowing restrictions left to municipalities in CA? Bagging lawn clippings is an incredible waste of water, so in dry conditions the cities here will sometimes tell people they can only mulch their lawns.

It's up to the municipality or water district.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 17:15

Kobayashi: Aug 13, 2004; by Nyc_Tattoo

And there are over 1,200 of them. :haw:

# ? Aug 28, 2014 17:39

Minarchist: Mar 5, 2009; by WE B Bourgeois

I live behind the Orange Curtain, and the amount of ornamental non-native plants is insane. It's like the city planners around here decided anything not paved had to resemble Hawaii or British Columbia because everything is covered in pine trees, tropical flowers and lush grasses and groundcover. And for such an affluent area they sure as hell can't manage to afford a decent watering system since I see a ton of runoff every morning (at least they water at night)

If the drought is so bad why are we still throwing water away on thousands of acres of plants that are better suited to temperate rainforests at higher latitudes? What's wrong with yucca plants and sagebrush, we live in a desert and there's plenty of ways to make desert plants look nice :smith:

# ? Aug 28, 2014 17:48

Amused to Death: Aug 10, 2009; google "The Night Witches", and prepare for

FCKGW posted:

Depressing Local News:

Riverside tries to distance themselves from the lunatics protesting kids fleeing from gang violence, gets overrun by those same protestors arguing against making proclamations for wild ideas like "humane treatment".

Riverside is one of the more laid back and tolerant places in Inland Empire too

quote:

�You are advocating equal treatment of everybody, and yet you want the illegals, who include underage gang members, to be more equal and have better treatment than the rest of us,� said Stella Stephens, who didn�t say where she lives.

lmao this reminds me of when New Haven started giving out city ID cards to undocumented people. When there was a protest outside of city hall in regards to it, when people were being interviewed it shockingly wound up being that they all almost didn't live in New Haven or refused to say where they lived.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 17:55

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Minarchist posted:

I live behind the Orange Curtain, and the amount of ornamental non-native plants is insane. It's like the city planners around here decided anything not paved had to resemble Hawaii or British Columbia because everything is covered in pine trees, tropical flowers and lush grasses and groundcover. And for such an affluent area they sure as hell can't manage to afford a decent watering system since I see a ton of runoff every morning (at least they water at night)

If the drought is so bad why are we still throwing water away on thousands of acres of plants that are better suited to temperate rainforests at higher latitudes? What's wrong with yucca plants and sagebrush, we live in a desert and there's plenty of ways to make desert plants look nice

To be fair, half of Hawaii (the leeward half) is just as dry as Southern California, so the tropical look can be drought tolerant. But you know the answer to your question, its because its a rich community that can afford it.

If you're interested, I'd check to see who has the contract for the county/cities' lawn/green services and then figure out which council member is their relative. Its a fun game! Where I used to live it was actually one of the board members who had the contract for all maintenance and lawn care issues. His company won the bids every time :rolleyes:

# ? Aug 28, 2014 17:57

Zeitgueist: Aug 8, 2003; by Ralp

FCKGW posted:

Depressing Local News:

Riverside tries to distance themselves from the lunatics protesting kids fleeing from gang violence, gets overrun by those same protestors arguing against making proclamations for wild ideas like "humane treatment".

Riverside is one of the more laid back and tolerant places in Inland Empire too

Riverside has the college there, (UCR) but it's surrounded by a lot of fairly conservative poo poo. The city itself, sure, but I don't see much difference in Riverside versus San Bernadino city/county.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 18:43

GhostofJohnMuir: Aug 14, 2014; anime is not good

Trabisnikof posted:

To be fair, half of Hawaii (the leeward half) is just as dry as Southern California, so the tropical look can be drought tolerant. But you know the answer to your question, its because its a rich community that can afford it.

If you're interested, I'd check to see who has the contract for the county/cities' lawn/green services and then figure out which council member is their relative. Its a fun game! Where I used to live it was actually one of the board members who had the contract for all maintenance and lawn care issues. His company won the bids every time

My experience on the leeward side was less 'tropical look' and more like 'desolate volcanic hellscape'. Still pretty though.

# ? Aug 28, 2014 21:01

Aeka 2.0: Nov 16, 2000; Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.; Dinosaur Gum

Riverside is full of shitheads. The biggest Assholes advertise themselves by mounting flags on poles in the bed of their pickup truck, in case you forgot where you live, and then feign into your lane if you dare try and pass them to let you know how macho they are.

I have a lawn, I put it in years ago because my backyard is sloped and half of it would wash away in a mudslide into the street behind my house. Plants weren't solving the problem. I have changed all my sprinklers to efficient ones that were costly, I've let most of it brown up but not completely die, and I have a lawnbott because mowing is not fun. The bonus side effect is it mulches since it cuts every day. Not all lawn owners are looking to piss away water.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 13:01

Papercut: Aug 24, 2005

GhostofJohnMuir posted:

My experience on the leeward side was less 'tropical look' and more like 'desolate volcanic hellscape'. Still pretty though.

Yeah I was on the Big Island last month, staying on the dry side, and the lushest that landscape got was dry scrub grass. The vast majority of that side of the island (outside of the artificially landscaped resort areas) is just barren lava fields that haven't grown back in the 50-100 years since they were active.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 16:22

Okuteru: Nov 10, 2007; Choose this life you're on your own

Aeka 2.0 posted:

Riverside is full of shitheads. The biggest Assholes advertise themselves by mounting flags on poles in the bed of their pickup truck, in case you forgot where you live, and then feign into your lane if you dare try and pass them to let you know how macho they are.

Honestly, everything east of Ontario is pretty much Arizona at that point.

In other news, California is close to becoming the first state to pass a clear sexual consent bill into law.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/29/california-lawmakerspasscampussexassaultbill.html

# ? Aug 29, 2014 18:51

Slobjob Zizek: Jun 20, 2004

Forceholy posted:

In other news, California is close to becoming the first state to pass a clear sexual consent bill into law.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/29/california-lawmakerspasscampussexassaultbill.html

This bill is bizarre, it's codifying the idea that one should have to prove a negative in cases of suspected rape. Thankfully it's confined to college campuses. I feel bad for those kids though.

Edit: Actually, I would go so far as to say this bill is terrible. It's trading off due process rights for universities' public images, and that's really sad.

Slobjob Zizek fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Aug 29, 2014

# ? Aug 29, 2014 19:52

Pohl: Jan 28, 2005; In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Slobjob Zizek posted:

This bill is bizarre, it's codifying the idea that one should have to prove a negative in cases of suspected rape. Thankfully it's confined to college campuses. I feel bad for those kids though.

Edit: Actually, I would go so far as to say this bill is terrible. It's trading off due process rights for universities' public images, and that's really sad.

I've asked every woman I ever slept with if she was sure that she wanted me to put my dick in her vagina. Stop being melodramatic, it is not difficult to gain consent.

# ? Aug 29, 2014 22:25

Bobby Digital: Sep 4, 2009

Aeka 2.0 posted:

Riverside is full of shitheads. The biggest Assholes advertise themselves by mounting flags on poles in the bed of their pickup truck, in case you forgot where you live, and then feign into your lane if you dare try and pass them to let you know how macho they are.

I saw one of these assholes with a Confederate flag on the shoulder of the 5 north of San Diego last year.

He had rear-ended a brand new Mercedes, driven by a black man.

I bet he loved his insurance rates going up to cover the repairs :allears:

# ? Aug 29, 2014 22:34

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# ? May 10, 2024 00:51

cheese: Jan 7, 2004; Shop around for doctors! Always fucking shop for doctors. Doctors are stupid assholes. And they get by because people are cowed by their mystical bullshit quality of being able to maintain a 3.0 GPA at some Guatemalan medical college for 3 semesters. Find one that makes sense.

Forceholy posted:

Honestly, everything east of Ontario is pretty much Arizona at that point.

In other news, California is close to becoming the first state to pass a clear sexual consent bill into law.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/8/29/california-lawmakerspasscampussexassaultbill.html

An Awful Bill posted:

Silence or lack of resistance does not constitute consent. The legislation says it's also not consent if the person is drunk, drugged, unconscious or asleep.

Lawmakers say consent can be nonverbal, and universities with similar policies have outlined examples as maybe a nod of the head or moving in closer to the person.

Read this loving sentence. "Your honor, the sex was consensual. She totally nodded her head when I suggested we get it on. I know she says she was cowering in fear but she definitely "moved in closer" to me - that is consent!". This is an absolute disaster, will be totally unenforceable and do nothing but confuse the issue while ensuring the focus remains on technicalities of consent rather than a culture that encourages men to be aggressive creeps who use alcohol to wear down a woman so she will let him have sex with her.

# ? Aug 30, 2014 17:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > California Politics: Madame Senator, this is a morgue

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