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I actually do think that it's cool that the one healing spell is 'evil' transmutate-clones that just shamble in a chosen direction diverting enemy attention and falling apart eventually'd be rad
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Aug 7, 2014 05:31
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no make regeneration necro/transmutation full disclosure: I think the charms school is dumb and should be removed
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Aug 7, 2014 05:32
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I like having buff/debuff schools in theory but in practice usually it's "get charms on every character"
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Aug 7, 2014 05:35
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oh hey, that sounds like the reason the charms school should be removed!!! I'm ok with the charms spells just the school itself deserves to die, "school of buff spells" is way too general to be interesting
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Aug 7, 2014 05:37
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What would Haste/Repel be then? Would haste just be air? Air/transloc? e: I was thinking it'd make either of those a bit too strong in turn if you moved haste to either and they'd be the new Charms, but actually Haste in Transmutations would be pretty baller i m o LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 05:40
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haste is a cool spell so we should probably find a place for it I like the idea of it being tloc, since the school doesn't have too many good spells I don't think air makes sense though ooh, something like tloc/tmut could be fun. It changes your body to move more slowly through time
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Aug 7, 2014 05:43
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oh I just thought of a good way to make transmutations better UNNERF SPIDER FORM YOU FUCKERS
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Aug 7, 2014 05:43
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IronicDongz posted:I actually do think that it's cool that the one healing spell is 'evil' regeneration, vampiric draining, and borgnjor's revivication are all necromancy. it's a consistent crawl Thing, in part to make 'no evil spells' a meaningful restriction for followers of good gods. nrook posted:oh I just thought of a good way to make transmutations better 
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Aug 7, 2014 05:45
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I sorta consider vampiric draining/borgnjor's revivication not quite pure 'healing' in the normal sense(one steals HP, the other sacrifices max HP) but yeah, that is a thing I like. Both gameplay-wise and as a 'loving with life and death' flavor thing.nrook posted:I like the idea of it being tloc, since the school doesn't have too many good spells I like the idea of Haste being pure transmut actually. Like that's a cool incentive considering for a lot of characters attached to armor, many transmut spells(and thus the exp. required to get a level 6 tmut spell up) are much more of a tradeoff than tloc is/charms ever was. Spider Form should at least have innate leap ability, now. LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 05:49
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Crypt of the Necrodancer is a fun roguelike
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Aug 7, 2014 07:02
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Ferrinus posted:transmutation/summoning to mitotically disgorge a clone of yourself It makes a lot of sense because it means the good gods block that spell.
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Aug 7, 2014 18:59
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Thug Lessons posted:It makes a lot of sense because it means the good gods block that spell. if it's a necromancy it should work like powered by death where casting regeneration gives you a healing bonus based on the number of nearby fresh corpses. a "straight" regen spell could be weaker but always effective, arbitrarily unnatural, a trans/necro spell, or nonexistent
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Aug 7, 2014 19:32
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Ferrinus posted:if it's a necromancy it should work like powered by death where casting regeneration gives you a healing bonus based on the number of nearby fresh corpses. a "straight" regen spell could be weaker but always effective, arbitrarily unnatural, a trans/necro spell, or nonexistent I don't see why beyond thematic reasons, and even in that case there's precedent (some old editions of D&D had regen as necromancy, probably other stuff too).
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Aug 7, 2014 20:17
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Ferrinus posted:if it's a necromancy it should work like powered by death where casting regeneration gives you a healing bonus based on the number of nearby fresh corpses. a "straight" regen spell could be weaker but always effective, arbitrarily unnatural, a trans/necro spell, or nonexistent this is a really cool idea. imo, if you did this, it should replace the current regen spell entirely - since the actual problem with the current spell is that it's an "out-of-combat spell" (which means that mana costs, fail chance, spellpower all don't really matter), there's no reason to bring that back. have the courage of your convictions. (also replace the effect on the ring of regen, since that's currently nearly useless in-combat & encourages tedious swapping after every fight) the only problem is extended, where there are (almost) no corpses, because all you fight are demonds and undead. of course, there's a certain someone who has opinions on how to fix that problem nrook posted:oh I just thought of a good way to make regen work in extended (also, of course, extended isn't real and doesn't matter, since only 0.29% of games ever get that far)
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Aug 7, 2014 20:17
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Oh and the problem with replacing Regen with Powered by Death is that it suddenly becomes a much less useful spell which becomes increasingly useless as you progress and does nothing once you get to extended.
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Aug 7, 2014 20:19
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I still thing ring of regen should only be equippable at max hp. It fixes it being equipped out of combat very elegantly without any weird ramp up period ala gourmand. I'm not sure if spell regeneration could work that way as well - does it last long enough for that to be worthwhile? PS Executioner simulacra would own even if I never do extended
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Aug 7, 2014 20:35
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also stuff like shroud of golubria and stoneskin should resemble rmsl somehow and necromutation should be permanent and irreversible
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Aug 7, 2014 20:41
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Jeffrey posted:I still thing ring of regen should only be equippable at max hp. It fixes it being equipped out of combat very elegantly without any weird ramp up period ala gourmand. I'm not sure if spell regeneration could work that way as well - does it last long enough for that to be worthwhile? If rings of regen were only equippable at max hp they would be worthless because you'd be better off equipping a +1 ring of protection. I'm sure you could tweak Powered by Death's duration to make it a usable spell but the problem is more with how it works. You really only get meaningful benefits from Powered by Death when you're killing a lot of monsters, and the most dangerous situations in the game tend to be those where you're having trouble killing monsters, so it does roughly nothing in the tough parts while making the easier parts even easier. It's still quite nice in a few places, like the Vaults:5 stairway, but massively boosting your regeneration rate is useful basically everywhere.
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Aug 7, 2014 20:43
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Thug Lessons posted:If rings of regen were only equippable at max hp they would be worthless because you'd be better off equipping a +1 ring of protection. I don't think that's true - I would wear ring of regen over 1 AC. It's a lot of regen, and the amount could be buffed if it's still not enough. If the only use right now is genuinely putting it on after combat to heal faster, it should just be removed, because doing that every time is annoying as hell. I don't think that's the case though. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Aug 7, 2014 |
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Aug 7, 2014 20:50
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ring of regen is useful if you summon stuff cause you can heal up before they disappear. i kept it on the one time i did tomb and i think i kept it on for zot as well
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Aug 7, 2014 22:51
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Jeffrey posted:I don't think that's true - I would wear ring of regen over 1 AC. It's a lot of regen, and the amount could be buffed if it's still not enough. You regenerate an extra 0.4 HP per turn with the ring of regen, whereas the +1 ring of protection is going to block 0.5 damage per hit and you can get hit multiple times per turn. All things being equal the ring of protection is better, though there's probably some situations where the ring of regen is better, but either way neither of them are particularly good. Anyway I don't really have any problem with people swapping stuff out.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:49
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it sounds to me like regen should be moved to amulets, if it is changed to be more strategic (i would be for this, though it'd depend on the execution)
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Aug 8, 2014 03:53
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Thug Lessons posted:Anyway I don't really have any problem with people swapping stuff out. same, but i think it's better to swap when there are tactical reasons, not when you want to minmax your hunger/turncount
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Aug 8, 2014 03:54
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Thug Lessons posted:You regenerate an extra 0.4 HP per turn with the ring of regen, whereas the +1 ring of protection is going to block 0.5 damage per hit and you can get hit multiple times per turn. All things being equal the ring of protection is better, though there's probably some situations where the ring of regen is better, but either way neither of them are particularly good. Anyway I don't really have any problem with people swapping stuff out. Swapping stuff in combat is cool, swapping after combat is bad I think. I agree it's not great, maybe I overrate it because one saved my life when the game told me I was fatally poisoned at 1 hp.
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Aug 8, 2014 03:54
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Roctavian posted:it sounds to me like regen should be moved to amulets, if it is changed to be more strategic (i would be for this, though it'd depend on the execution) I have a patch for this sitting around, there are just some save compat issues that I need to work out (keeping people from loading games & finding themselves wearing two amulets at once, that kind of thing)
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Aug 8, 2014 04:26
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i've always disliked that "amulets should be strategic items" idea, because they are way easier to swap than rings in terms of keystrokes, and not forgetting which finger has which ring. make amulets the "tactical" items that you swap a lot, and make rings the strategic ones if there really needs to be a type of jewellery like that.
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Aug 8, 2014 12:42
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Crawl sounds like a dumb cluster gently caress of bad design decisions.
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Aug 8, 2014 18:56
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Powercrazy posted:Crawl sounds like a dumb cluster gently caress of bad design decisions. Its a roguelike, yes.
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Aug 8, 2014 19:43
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Turtlicious posted:Its a roguelike, yes. Vanilla Nethack has good design decisions though. Also lol at people getting upset at tolkien fantasy tropes.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:28
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im mad as heck about these elves and dwarves!!!
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Aug 8, 2014 21:31
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Powercrazy posted:Vanilla Nethack has good design decisions though. Good: Nethack is a solvable puzzle, items all have multiple uses, classes mostly provide interesting ways to play the game, there are creative ways out of dangerous situations, it's harder to screw yourself with a poor build than in Crawl, you don't need to figure out as many obtuse systems (leveling, religion, etc.) as Crawl. Bad: Nethack is a solvable puzzle, Gehennom, and pretty much the entire post-castle game, the XL 10-13 slump while trying to grind up levels to do the quest but not having found the necessary items to get past Medusa's lair or open the Castle, hard level requirement on the quest, having to find specific items to get past Medusa's lair or open the Castle, the obtuseness of the Castle puzzle, the obtuseness of the vibrating square, soldier ants.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:53
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Powercrazy posted:Vanilla Nethack has good design decisions though. Powercrazy posted:Also lol at people getting upset at tolkien fantasy tropes.
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Aug 8, 2014 21:53
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in nethack, you have to engage in bizarre repetitive ritualistic behavior to win (gehennom, sokoban, etc) in crawl, you have to engage in bizarre repetitive ritualistic behavior to avoid dying (crate's law, throwing stones at distracted enemies, etc)
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Aug 8, 2014 22:01
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great, confronted by loving furry art at the word "go" when i was a kid,my mom got me this game that was a roguelike but you were outside, like i distinctly remember trees and poo poo. anyone know what it was? this would have been early nineties
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Aug 8, 2014 22:25
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Nethack sucks rear end.
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Aug 8, 2014 23:09
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Claven666 posted:great, confronted by loving furry art at the word "go" ToeJam and Earl. Maybe you're japanese and you played Shiren the Wanderer somehow
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Aug 8, 2014 23:09
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Powercrazy posted:Vanilla Nethack has good design decisions though.  Claven666 posted:great, confronted by loving furry art at the word "go" Game of The Year all years. Until Andrew fixes his broke-rear end polling system.
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Aug 9, 2014 02:02
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ADOM is where it's at
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Aug 9, 2014 09:43
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FactsAreUseless posted:It also has some really bad ones, and Nethack is my favorite roguelike. In the next version of Nethack (whenever that comes out) Gehennom will be significantly changed probably similiar to how Slash'em Ghennom looks. There is a guaranteed wand of wishing specifically to fill out your ascension kit in the castle and there are a lots of ways to get to the castle without even worrying about the puzzle part. The slump from XL10-14 is where potions of gain level are useful, but you can also use foocubii, or reverse genocide wraiths, or go down to hell and do wraith farming. If you are strong enough you can just brute force your way to the castle and by the time you get there you will certainly be level 14. Anyway every single complaint of Nethack is addressed in multiple ways within the mechanics of the game. If you haven't figured the "puzzle" aspect of the game out, that isnt' really a failing of the game, more a 'failing' of the genre.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:36
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There is no next version of NetHack. The devteam killed their game by refusing to poo poo or get off the pot. RIP.
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Aug 9, 2014 19:47
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