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Gonzo McFee posted:On the interview with Observer Dave Meltzer basically says "Bret is a huge fan of yours" to Drew McIntyre. Wasn't Bret the one who said Melina was the best worker in the world at one stage?
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Aug 9, 2014 01:47
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Gonzo McFee posted:OSW Review posted a new video! It's Capital Carnage! Everything in the Ken Shamrock match segment is amazing.
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Aug 9, 2014 02:17
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dsriggs posted:Wasn't Bret the one who said Melina was the best worker in the world at one stage? Bret and Foley must have had a competition going as to who could more creepily imply that they wanted to gently caress Melina
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Aug 9, 2014 02:37
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Thauros posted:Podcasters: I totally agree with him about AJ Styles and how dumb WWE was not to sign him.
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Aug 9, 2014 02:57
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of all the things to be nitpicky about with Meltzer and NJPW, this years g1 tournament is not a good choice. it's also really glib to say that it's only being well regarded because of his praise when the quality of the work happening in the tournament is above and beyond anything else going on in wrestling right now.
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Aug 9, 2014 03:59
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Yeah, I don't get the people being antsy about his statements per the G1. You could say Meltzer overrates a lot of things, but if I had to say on the spot which was the best wrestling tournament ever, so far I'd say it's the current G1 Climax and it's not even a hard decision to make.
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Aug 9, 2014 04:34
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MassRafTer posted:I have no idea why you would demand someone to back up their opinion with that much thought and viewership of tournaments, voters for major sporting awards aren't even held to that kind of standard. Because he's not presenting it like it's his opinion but like it's self-evidently true. It would be fine for the average fan to say something like that, but I think someone in Meltzer's position should be above making such rash proclamations. When he critiques NJPW he obviously has his fan hat on rather than his journalist's hat which uh good for him for enjoying stuff but I don't pay to listen to him so I can hear stuff I could hear from any other random internet fan.
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Aug 9, 2014 04:56
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Tokyo Slutty Gal posted:Because he's not presenting it like it's his opinion but like it's self-evidently true. It would be fine for the average fan to say something like that, but I think someone in Meltzer's position should be above making such rash proclamations. When he critiques NJPW he obviously has his fan hat on rather than his journalist's hat which uh good for him for enjoying stuff but I don't pay to listen to him so I can hear stuff I could hear from any other random internet fan. That's fine and dandy, but why listen to the reviews of someone whose opinions you don't want to hear?
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Aug 9, 2014 05:02
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Tokyo Slutty Gal posted:Because he's not presenting it like it's his opinion but like it's self-evidently true. It would be fine for the average fan to say something like that, but I think someone in Meltzer's position should be above making such rash proclamations. When he critiques NJPW he obviously has his fan hat on rather than his journalist's hat which uh good for him for enjoying stuff but I don't pay to listen to him so I can hear stuff I could hear from any other random internet fan. In your last post you criticized people for maybe not seeing every tournament ever. Why is it not OK for the person with the biggest pool of knowledge in wrestling to make an informed critique? Should professional sports be above voting for MVPs? People inherently want to rank things as the best and part of the reason people pay for an Observer subscription is to read Dave's opinion.
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Aug 9, 2014 05:09
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MassRafTer posted:In your last post you criticized people for maybe not seeing every tournament ever. Why is it not OK for the person with the biggest pool of knowledge in wrestling to make an informed critique? Because I've seen no indication that he's given it any serious thought. According to people who know Dave his star ratings have always been an immediate gut reaction as soon as the final bell rings and I see no reason to believe that this is any different - except of course that he's not even waiting for the tournament to be over before he proclaims it the best ever in this case.
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Aug 9, 2014 05:14
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Tokyo Slutty Gal posted:Because I've seen no indication that he's given it any serious thought. According to people who know Dave his star ratings have always been an immediate gut reaction as soon as the final bell rings and I see no reason to believe that this is any different - except of course that he's not even waiting for the tournament to be over before he proclaims it the best ever in this case. Did you know that ESPN declared USC the greatest college football team of all time days before they were almost single-handedly beaten by Vince Young? It's what journalists do, except it's a much safer bet to assume that the wrestlers that have delivered excellent match after excellent match (in Dave's mind) won't suddenly turn into duds for the most important matches yet than assuming #1 in football will beat #2.
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Aug 9, 2014 05:18
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Tokyo Slutty Gal posted:Because I've seen no indication that he's given it any serious thought. According to people who know Dave his star ratings have always been an immediate gut reaction as soon as the final bell rings and I see no reason to believe that this is any different - except of course that he's not even waiting for the tournament to be over before he proclaims it the best ever in this case. Have you actually listened to the podcasts or read the Observer where he goes into detail about why he thinks this? I mean the man once wrote an entire history of NJPW to provide the proper context of his review of the 1996 G-1 and the stories coming out of it. I think he puts a little bit of thought into his opinion.
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Aug 9, 2014 05:20
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I guess I missed where there was any explanation other than that there's been a ton of awesome matches (which for the record I am not disputing, although I do think the guy's star ratings have suffered inflation at Roger Ebert-esque rate). Seriously if I missed any serious analysis - which I'm sure you'd agree would have to include at least comparison to the other major candidates - please point me to it. I saw some comparison to last year's G1 and that's about it.
Spermgod fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 05:25
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like you said it, was an off-hand comment it doesn't need to be source and it doesn't matter what his influence in the business, he will still have opinions. also nobody takes daves opinion outside the snowflakes and awards that seriously anyway so who cares.
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Aug 9, 2014 05:53
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The thing Dave is failing to consider in calling this the best tournament of all time is number of VHS tapes.
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Aug 9, 2014 06:10
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Bret Hart: I'm really a huge fan of yours, your a great wrestler. (is looking into a mirror)
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Aug 9, 2014 07:48
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I laughed for a long time at the idea that Dave Meltzer doesn't put much thought into his opinions on wrestling  oldpainless posted:Bret Hart: I'm really a huge fan of yours, you're a great wrestler. So he's not only telling subjective truth, but objective truth as well?
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Aug 9, 2014 07:54
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Tokyo Slutty Gal posted:I guess I missed where there was any explanation other than that there's been a ton of awesome matches (which for the record I am not disputing, although I do think the guy's star ratings have suffered inflation at Roger Ebert-esque rate). Seriously if I missed any serious analysis - which I'm sure you'd agree would have to include at least comparison to the other major candidates - please point me to it. I saw some comparison to last year's G1 and that's about it. What is the best tournament of all time in your opinion?
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Aug 9, 2014 07:57
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How can you trust Meltzer, really? I mean the man owns a phone that plugs into a WALL? HELLO? MCFLY? HELLOOOOO?
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Aug 9, 2014 08:59
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cronox2 posted:Everything in the Ken Shamrock match segment is amazing. It's a shame that the OSW guys don't have as much fun with the PPV as the AEPodcast guys did. They're quite dismissive of a few wrestlers/segments that I don't think deserved it. Maybe it's just because I found Shane's cheap "Vinnie Jones is George Michael's lover' speech quite funny in a dumb way, but they tossed it off as being boring. Some high points aside, they seemed quite off their game during this one and didn't seem like they wanted to do it at all.
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Aug 9, 2014 09:07
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Jerusalem posted:I laughed for a long time at the idea that Dave Meltzer doesn't put much thought into his opinions on wrestling He really doesn't though when it comes to match quality? Friends of his say that he comes up with his star ratings seconds after the match ends. He's been clear that he doesn't believe in going back and re-evaluating old stuff and that the only proper way to appreciate wrestling is in its original context. Which is fine, but then you don't get to make historic claims about things being CLEARLY OBVIOUSLY NOT EVEN CLOSE THE BEST EVER when by virtue of the way you enjoy wrestling those claims can only ever functionally amount to "on first and only viewing I enjoyed this more than I recall enjoying anything else". Spermgod fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Aug 9, 2014 |
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Aug 9, 2014 10:53
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LordPants posted:What is the best tournament of all time in your opinion? I haven't seen anywhere near enough stuff to say.
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Aug 9, 2014 10:54
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I got a lot of good feedback in the WWE Discussion thread when I would watch RAW the next day and livepost it - so with that said I am going to start recording my commentary on that show. That's over 2 hours of my dulcet tones wondering where John Cena is, laughing at Jerry Lawler's jokes and generally slating popular people
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Aug 9, 2014 11:05
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So you're in a restaurant and you get the best steak you ever had do you go "Well this was good but i can't really rate it in its historical context yet."
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Aug 9, 2014 11:10
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canada jezus posted:So you're in a restaurant and you get the best steak you ever had do you go "Well this was good but i can't really rate it in its historical context yet." id probably say something like, "that was the best steak i ever had" not make a statement of objective fact like "THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY THE BEST STEAK EVER IN HISTORY, IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE"
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Aug 9, 2014 11:15
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Would it help if you just imagined him saying "in my opinion" after everything he says? I'm only half trying to be funny here.
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Aug 9, 2014 11:17
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NJPW and its ilk are definitely overrated, but its not just dave that's guilty
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Aug 9, 2014 11:18
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I wouldn't say NJPW is overrated so much as I'd say they don't waste time having a who can fart the loudest contest/dance-off between a midget and three jobbers and the results are tabulated on the NJPW App.
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Aug 9, 2014 11:23
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canada jezus posted:Would it help if you just imagined him saying "in my opinion" after everything he says? I'm only half trying to be funny here. i really dont think he sees it like that. from the way he talks it sounds like he thinks it's self-evidently true.
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Aug 9, 2014 11:26
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I trust Dave Meltzer because he's old and has a podcast.
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Aug 9, 2014 11:29
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Doo-Wop Duodenum posted:I trust Dave Meltzer because he's old and has a podcast. He also has a leather jacket so you know he could totally throw down.
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Aug 9, 2014 11:39
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I'm still glad that NJPW is good enough that we're back with Meltzer over-rates Japan again. There was a while it was all so grim.
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Aug 9, 2014 11:40
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Tokyo Slutty Gal posted:i really dont think he sees it like that. from the way he talks it sounds like he thinks it's self-evidently true. I just think its his podcast so he tells people his opinion without qualifying it all the time. I remember he doesn't (didn't) like the dragon gate style but talked about how if you're a man the matches were phenomenal.
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Aug 9, 2014 11:47
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Tokyo Slutty Gal posted:I guess I missed where there was any explanation other than that there's been a ton of awesome matches (which for the record I am not disputing, although I do think the guy's star ratings have suffered inflation at Roger Ebert-esque rate). Seriously if I missed any serious analysis - which I'm sure you'd agree would have to include at least comparison to the other major candidates - please point me to it. I saw some comparison to last year's G1 and that's about it. You do know that he didn't give out a five-star rating to any match, for like, a half decade before NJPW started its new boom? The reason he doesn't go back to re-rate matches is because his score is also dependent on the build-up and story before the match. Its not the work in a vacuum.
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Aug 9, 2014 11:48
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GoutPatrol posted:You do know that he didn't give out a five-star rating to any match, for like, a half decade before NJPW started its new boom? The reason he doesn't go back to re-rate matches is because his score is also dependent on the build-up and story before the match. Its not the work in a vacuum. ishii/shibata
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Aug 9, 2014 11:57
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GoutPatrol posted:You do know that he didn't give out a five-star rating to any match, for like, a half decade before NJPW started its new boom? I feel like the five star rating is still considered somewhat hallowed ground but outside of that there's been much more inflation in his scores. GoutPatrol posted:The reason he doesn't go back to re-rate matches is because his score is also dependent on the build-up and story before the match. Its not the work in a vacuum. That's part of it but there's more to it - regardless of build and story he doesn't believe in looking back on stuff produced in a different context. It's why he doesn't agree with people saying that the Tiger Mask/Dynamite series is psychologically lacking and people overrated it at the time because they were wowed by the new style. To him appreciation of a wrestling match is all about being there in the moment. Which again is absolutely fine but I think disqualifies you from making claims like "greatest ever" which imply a little more perspective.
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Aug 9, 2014 12:02
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I think this gets asked a lot but where is the most complete list of Meltzer ratings?
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Aug 9, 2014 12:06
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Valeyard posted:I think this gets asked a lot but where is the most complete list of Meltzer ratings? Star Ratings List I think? It divides things up by company/5-star lists etc but seems to be up to date through to the end of June, 2014 at least.
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Aug 9, 2014 12:12
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Jerusalem posted:Star Ratings List I think? It divides things up by company/5-star lists etc but seems to be up to date through to the end of June, 2014 at least. Thanks very much Jru, I'll make some pretty graphs later on
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Aug 9, 2014 12:15
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Tokyo Slutty Gal posted:That's part of it but there's more to it - regardless of build and story he doesn't believe in looking back on stuff produced in a different context. It's why he doesn't agree with people saying that the Tiger Mask/Dynamite series is psychologically lacking and people overrated it at the time because they were wowed by the new style. To him appreciation of a wrestling match is all about being there in the moment. Which again is absolutely fine but I think disqualifies you from making claims like "greatest ever" which imply a little more perspective.
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Aug 9, 2014 12:29
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