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xrunner posted:That said, I work out in McMinnville and it's night and day different than Portland. Like others said, Beaverton is just a generic American suburb, but once you get a bit into the willamette valley the character changes. Ah yes, McMinnville. Home to the second largest UFO celebration in the country. xrunner posted:I mean, there are interesting differences between the south and out here, but for the most part people are still culturally the same as other parts of the country. Although, maybe if I ran with the 22 year old crowd my perspective would be different. Or maybe I'm just indoctrinated. The US does have a sort of wide ranging "middle class white" culture that can be found everywhere. You can chat with white collar office drones about that same TV shows at a chain restaurant in New York, Georgia, Minnesota or California. And if you just insulate yourself to that relatively narrow demographic, it is pretty easy to fool yourself into thinking that this is the culture of everyone in the US outside of tiny ethnic enclaves. But really, that culture has no roots beyond the 1950's. I'm not saying it isn't real. Just that it appears more ubiquitous than it really is. It is wealthy and mobile enough that it presents itself nearly everywhere, but is often surrounded by local cultures that sees much of mainstream white middle class culture as alien, other, or just out of their reach. One of the things that makes Portland so interesting is that it is a very white city with a sizable population of people who are very vocal about eschewing this sort of mainstream middle class white culture. It is easy to just ignore rural, working class, ethnic and religious communities and their cultures. You can just fly over them or avoid their part of town. But Portland sort of forces yuppies out of their comfort zone with a bunch of seemingly well-to-do white people who are proud about not owning a TV, or drinking Coors Light, or eating at McDonalds, or shopping at big-box stores. And then they make a TV show about those zanny people from Portland. Something that just occurred to me; Would a show like Portlandia work if it wasn't based on otherwise generically White Americans? If instead it was based on a city with a strong Black, Hispanic, Asian or Jewish culture? Like, you could easily take many of those skits and make them horribly racist stereotypes by replacing the eccentric shop keepers with Koreans or Jews, or the the peculiar tastes in food and art with those of Hispanics or African-Americans.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:29
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Ardennes posted:Mississippi/Vancouver and Alberta are those "few other places" but there are still black residents trying to hold on around are generally invisible to anyone talking about "Portlandia" and have been quickly pushed out. I live one block off of Mississippi and Portlandia had their film crew camped right at the end of my street across from the only black family left on the block. They were doing an episode about food carts. Fun facts about Miss: there used to be some local residents who ran a few legit ethnic food carts but the city forced them out of their locations citing requirements that food carts be on asphalt lots, which they could not afford to build of course. They were moved to the rear end end of the street while a new lot was constructed at the top so that white people could set up their carts. Later, someone spray painted swastikas on some of the ethnic carts. A couple of them closed up shortly after. Strangely, Fred and Carrie didn't put any of that in the skit.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:30
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Ardennes posted:To be honest most of the new apartments/condos I have seen in the NW and the SE look look like they were airdropped from somewhere in Southern California. Also you now have the ridiculous situation of large 4-5 story buildings looming over detached single family homes. It must suck to have lived in a neighborhood decades and then you got a bunch of apartments looking into your house/yard because the city decided to be ridiculous about zoning. I have mixed feelings about infill, too, but it seems that the alternative would be for the single-family houses to continue to explode in value. When new housing is blocked, after some time the only people living in the existing stock would be the rich, and middle-class white people who (depending on the neighborhood) bought anytime between the seventies and the turn of the millennium. It's not like the rate of people moving to the city is going to slow down any time soon, absent another recession. 800peepee51doodoo posted:I live one block off of Mississippi and Portlandia had their film crew camped right at the end of my street across from the only black family left on the block. They were doing an episode about food carts. Fun facts about Miss: there used to be some local residents who ran a few legit ethnic food carts but the city forced them out of their locations citing requirements that food carts be on asphalt lots, which they could not afford to build of course. They were moved to the rear end end of the street while a new lot was constructed at the top so that white people could set up their carts. Later, someone spray painted swastikas on some of the ethnic carts. A couple of them closed up shortly after. Strangely, Fred and Carrie didn't put any of that in the skit. Portlandia is a dumb show
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Aug 9, 2014 22:46
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Hedera Helix posted:I have mixed feelings about infill, too, but it seems that the alternative would be for the single-family houses to continue to explode in value. When new housing is blocked, after some time the only people living in the existing stock would be the rich, and middle-class white people who (depending on the neighborhood) bought anytime between the seventies and the turn of the millennium. It's not like the rate of people moving to the city is going to slow down any time soon, absent another recession. I don't think the issue is new housing but the way infill housing is being done is usually sort of nuts. I say a 5 story building build on a single-family lot with no parking...that doesn't need to happen. If anything "townhouse" style buildings would make more sense and even then they need to either have a new permitting system or have some parking available. A big issue is that public transit in the SE especially isn't that fantastic and if people bring over their cars it is going to become a huge mess. Portlandia is a dumb and very lazy show but unfortunately it seems to have branded the city to people who never actually been there.
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Aug 9, 2014 22:51
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Hedera Helix posted:I have mixed feelings about infill, too, but it seems that the alternative would be for the single-family houses to continue to explode in value. When new housing is blocked, after some time the only people living in the existing stock would be the rich, and middle-class white people who (depending on the neighborhood) bought anytime between the seventies and the turn of the millennium. It's not like the rate of people moving to the city is going to slow down any time soon, absent another recession. Well yeah, it'd be pretty great if all those new buildings contained new apartments that actual humans could afford to live in...but I'm pretty sure they're mostly in the vain of ~$1,600+/month studio apartments for rich 20-somethings (and also don't have on-site parking because that will somehow magic away everyone's cars they already own).
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Aug 9, 2014 22:52
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Ernie Muppari posted:Well yeah, it'd be pretty great if all those new buildings contained new apartments that actual humans could afford to live in...but I'm pretty sure they're mostly in the vain of ~$1,600+/month studio apartments for rich 20-somethings (and also don't have on-site parking because that will somehow magic away everyone's cars they already own).
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Aug 9, 2014 23:21
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Hedera Helix posted:I have mixed feelings about infill, too, but it seems that the alternative would be for the single-family houses to continue to explode in value. When new housing is blocked, after some time the only people living in the existing stock would be the rich, and middle-class white people who (depending on the neighborhood) bought anytime between the seventies and the turn of the millennium. It's not like the rate of people moving to the city is going to slow down any time soon, absent another recession. The problem is that all of that infill is being built for rich, middle-class white people and doesn't seem to be doing anything to alleviate spiraling housing costs Hedera Helix posted:Portlandia is a dumb show You don't say
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Aug 9, 2014 23:21
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xrunner posted:Even if you go to hawthorn  Ardennes posted:I am sorry but most of the other Oregon is not that memorable I remember that. (Some hamlet in southern OR.)
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Aug 9, 2014 23:35
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Cicero posted:Right, but isn't that because developers are so limited in how much they can build? Like, if you were only allowed to sell 50 cars a year as a dealership, obviously you would do the most luxurious cars you could get away with, because making decent profits on low-margin product requires scale. There seems to be this weird idea that some people have that dreaded developers will only ever build luxury developments anywhere, when clearly in places with low cost of living some companies must build middle-class apartments and houses (either that or middle-class housing is just the high-end housing that was built thirty years ago). Uh...yeah, they're limited because building apartments is expensive, and generally you're not going to want to spend that much money on construction/maintenance unless you expect to get a lot back in return. Housing for the non-rich is less potentially profitable, that's why you usually only see companies deciding to create more if they get at least some of the initial construction funds from elsewhere (like the city or state).
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Aug 9, 2014 23:35
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800peepee51doodoo posted:The problem is that all of that infill is being built for rich, middle-class white people and doesn't seem to be doing anything to alleviate spiraling housing costs If you want cheap rent, you end up heading out to Hillsboro or Gresham. And so long as Portland is a trendy place to live in, this will not change outside outside of efforts by the city government to set housing aside specifically for low income people.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:40
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Ernie Muppari posted:Housing for the non-rich is less potentially profitable, that's why you usually only see companies deciding to create more if they get at least some of the initial construction funds from elsewhere (like the city or state).
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Aug 9, 2014 23:40
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FRINGE posted:I stopped at some place in the middle of a too-long drive to rest and all the 100 year old zombies were looking at me like I was food. Bet it was Oakland.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:43
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Cicero posted:Right, but demand for high-end housing isn't infinite. Once the lower-hanging fruit is taken, it seems like developers would still prefer making some profit via building middle-class housing rather than doing nothing. That's assuming that those developers are either A. stuck building housing in 1 city or B. interested in long term profit.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:44
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FRINGE posted:I met some of those. They were from CA. Ha! You're right though. In my urge to condemn Portlandia I think I may have oversold my position. It's just annoying when people talk about Portlandia like its a loving documentary instead of a boring tv show. That said, there really is a looming infrastructure problem on the horizon. Expanding the streetcar would be nice, but I'm sure there is no money for that.
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Aug 9, 2014 23:49
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Cicero posted:Right, but demand for high-end housing isn't infinite. Once the lower-hanging fruit is taken, it seems like developers would still prefer making some profit via building middle-class housing rather than doing nothing. 
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Aug 9, 2014 23:57
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xrunner posted:Expanding the streetcar would be nice, but I'm sure there is no money for that. gently caress a street car, it's just an overpriced way to get people past the stigma of riding mass transit. Busses handle what street cars do just fine without the expensive infrastructure upgrades. The only real benefit to street car lines is economic development along the fixed routes.
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Aug 10, 2014 00:19
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xrunner posted:Ha! You're right though. In my urge to condemn Portlandia I think I may have oversold my position. It's just annoying when people talk about Portlandia like its a loving documentary instead of a boring tv show. Barring unforseen circumstances, the eastside streetcar line will become a proper loop next year. It will likely be the last addition to the system for a very long time; plans for a line down to Lake Oswego were cancelled amid protests, and a concept plan drawn up in 2009 for expanding the system states that it's for 20-50 years out, and has no money budgeted toward it, so you can kind of guess how much will actually come from it. To make matters worse, a proposed line that would cross the Sellwood bridge to connect with the new MAX station on Tacoma would have required the Lake Oswego streetcar. At the very least, the bridge redesign would be capable of carrying streetcars, so something might materialize someday. The concept plan is interesting because the proposed lines are all very short, and with the exception of the aforementioned Sellwood line and a circulator in Gateway (overlapping the 15's least-used portion  ), they're all very close in, and would overlap existing bus routes. Supposedly these would be the first phases in longer lines, ones that could potentially replace bus lines and carry more passengers, but whether they would be fully built out is another question.Personally, I feel that new MAX lines within Portland would be a better use of transportation dollars. There are, in fact, a couple being proposed, along Barbur and along Powell/Division. Except that it's likely the Barbur line will get teabagged just like the expansion to Vancouver was, and even if these are built, they might decide to go with BRT instead of the preexisting light rail network.  fake edit: highme posted:gently caress a street car, it's just an overpriced way to get people past the stigma of riding mass transit. Busses handle what street cars do just fine without the expensive infrastructure upgrades. The only real benefit to street car lines is economic development along the fixed routes. Trains use less energy during operation than buses, and can carry more people.
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Aug 10, 2014 00:23
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Hedera Helix posted:Trains use less energy during operation than buses, and can carry more people. And make me less motion sick.
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Aug 10, 2014 00:26
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You're right, of course. I just felt that a streetcar expansion might be a better way to get hawthorn, Alberta, and the like on the grid without the bigger footprint of the max. I've always wondered why more systems don't use elevated trains like Chicago but I'm sure there is a good reason. And yeah, I'm positive that the max expansion to Barbur will die early for the same reasons the Lake O and Vancouver ones did. Middle class people with two car garages are afraid of poors riding transit out to their neighborhood and robbing them that, and they don't see any benefit in not driving. HashtagGirlboss fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 00:39
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Ernie Muppari posted:Well yeah, it'd be pretty great if all those new buildings contained new apartments that actual humans could afford to live in...but I'm pretty sure they're mostly in the vain of ~$1,600+/month studio apartments for rich 20-somethings (and also don't have on-site parking because that will somehow magic away everyone's cars they already own). Isn't there also the issue that if more inexpensive units were built, they would be purchased up by the rich anyway? They can certainly afford to make any upgrades.
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Aug 10, 2014 00:49
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xrunner posted:I've always wondered why more systems don't use elevated trains like Chicago but I'm sure there is a good reason. Expense, because making them elevated costs more than just leaving them on the ground. Though it may cancel right of way expenses if you build them over streets or alleys. And 'visual blight' and other code words for NIMBY stuff. Even Chicago itself fell to this, tearing down a mile or so of track right after rebuilding them. And on the topic of housing, just want to add that mandatory parking drives up the costs enough to make developers switch from low-mid income buildings to luxury ones.
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Aug 10, 2014 00:52
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highme posted:gently caress a street car, it's just an overpriced way to get people past the stigma of riding mass transit. Busses handle what street cars do just fine without the expensive infrastructure upgrades. The only real benefit to street car lines is economic development along the fixed routes. I think the Streetcar has a place and for the most part has reached the goals it needed to which is mostly a circulator around the CBD and some nearby neighborhoods. In the sense of taxes and development, it has probably paid for itself or will in a short amount of time and most of the money came for it came from TIFs and federal money. That said, it isn't a solution to the larger woes commuter woes of Portland and unfortunately there is already a crisis because the MAX isn't widespread or heavy enough to meet population growth and Portland's freeway system really isn't designed for a metro area of over a million. For the most part the freeway system is saturated as it is, and so are a lot of the MAX lines during peak commuting times. It isn't going to be easy to fix either because expanding freeways is extremely expensive and there really isn't extra room to put more lanes. They could possibly expand the 217 but the tunnel on the 26 is 3 lanes in either direction and there is no way it can be expanded. The 5, 84 or the 405 really can't be expanded either. quote:You're right, of course. I just felt that a streetcar expansion might be a better way to get hawthorn, Alberta, and the like on the grid without the bigger footprint of the max. I've always wondered why more systems don't use elevated trains like Chicago but I'm sure there is a good reason. And yeah, I'm positive that the max expansion to Barbur will die early for the same reasons the Lake O and Vancouver ones did. Middle class people with two car garages are afraid of poors riding transit out to their neighborhood and robbing them that, and they don't see any benefit in not driving. Living in Chicago (which is probably the worse place for an elevated system ironically enough), it is loud as hell, stations are exposed to the elements (not really an issue in Portland) and infrastructure is usually more especially if you go with wood ties....like Chicago does. Chicago has the system it does because a lot of those right of ways were built in late 19th/early 20th century. Otherwise, you would have to tear our buildings to build those lines. Anyway, the transportation issue doesn't have much of a magic bullet. MAX expansion, Bus funding and maybe BRT would be an improvement but I don't think it will be enough.
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Aug 10, 2014 01:01
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Ardennes posted:I think the Streetcar has a place and for the most part has reached the goals it needed to which is mostly a circulator around the CBD and some nearby neighborhoods. In the sense of taxes and development, it has probably paid for itself or will in a short amount of time and most of the money came for it came from TIFs and federal money.
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Aug 10, 2014 01:12
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xrunner posted:You're right, of course. I just felt that a streetcar expansion might be a better way to get hawthorn, Alberta, and the like on the grid without the bigger footprint of the max. I've always wondered why more systems don't use elevated trains like Chicago but I'm sure there is a good reason. And yeah, I'm positive that the max expansion to Barbur will die early for the same reasons the Lake O and Vancouver ones did. Middle class people with two car garages are afraid of poors riding transit out to their neighborhood and robbing them that, and they don't see any benefit in not driving. I should probably clarify: the Southwest Corridor is meant to connect to the neighborhoods along Barbur, in addition to Tigard and Tualatin. If it doesn't actually reach the suburbs, it will still get built, even if it terminates at Sylvania instead of Bridgeport Village or what have you. Having a MAX line that goes to Sylvania would have been nice when I was taking classes out there. Oh well. 
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Aug 10, 2014 01:16
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Ardennes posted:Living in Chicago (which is probably the worse place for an elevated system ironically enough), it is loud as hell, stations are exposed to the elements (not really an issue in Portland) and infrastructure is usually more especially if you go with wood ties....like Chicago does. Chicago has the system it does because a lot of those right of ways were built in late 19th/early 20th century. Otherwise, you would have to tear our buildings to build those lines. Thanks. My only real experience with Chicago is visiting family in the summer so they seemed fine to me. As you and CZ mentioned, I would think the fact that they don't have to worry about crossing traffic and they don't require eminent domain/demolition would make them more desirable. And they must be cheaper than subways. That said, something needs to be figured out with traffic. The roads are completely inadequate and like you said there is no room to expand them at the choke points like the tunnel or the Marquam bridge. Portland is a fairly compact town. I've lived in cities with half of the metro population that had an equivalent geographical footprint (Jacksonville comes to mind). That should make mass transit more effective. I mean, if light rail or the bus served where I work, I'd jump on it. With congestion, I don't think it would take any longer (actually, when I was at L&C I had a clinic downtown and taking the bus got me there just as quickly as driving). I think a big problem is cultural. People are just adverse to using mass transit. It's associated with being poor and people tend to think transferring buses/trains is confusing (although google maps kicks rear end at that). But things are going to reach critical mass soon. The highways here really can't handle the load. Edit: Interesting. The google maps app has been completely functional for me. Although, I never ride at peak times VVV HashtagGirlboss fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 02:04
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I actually find Google Maps isn't great for transit navigation; Trimet's own website or app are better and more up-to-date. Annoyingly, the scheduling/navigation app is separate from the ticketing app (not actually all that annoying).
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Aug 10, 2014 02:13
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FRINGE posted:I met some of those. They were from CA. I hope it wasnt Gold Beach. My grandma used to live there. Also, tonight is Lou Pinella night at the mariners. Good times.
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Aug 10, 2014 02:37
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Ugh, it's supposed to be 99 in Corvallis on Monday.  I'm glad that the coast is only an hour's drive away.
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Aug 10, 2014 02:55
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xrunner posted:Thanks. My only real experience with Chicago is visiting family in the summer so they seemed fine to me. As you and CZ mentioned, I would think the fact that they don't have to worry about crossing traffic and they don't require eminent domain/demolition would make them more desirable. And they must be cheaper than subways. Mass transit can't be the only solution, because I-5 is THE major West Coast commercial trade and cargo corridor. Decreasing the number of commuters on the road would certainly help, but our interchanges, onramps, and offramps are not very big-truck friendly. As anybody who's gotten stuck behind one on one of our many short, uphill onramps can attest.
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Aug 10, 2014 03:04
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SyHopeful posted:Mass transit can't be the only solution, because I-5 is THE major West Coast commercial trade and cargo corridor. Decreasing the number of commuters on the road would certainly help, but our interchanges, onramps, and offramps are not very big-truck friendly. As anybody who's gotten stuck behind one on one of our many short, uphill onramps can attest. Yeah. I-5 through Portland is a mess. The fact that there are no southbound ramps between downtown and 99? The fact that the curves back up traffic even more than a three lane interstate already would? The fact that the I-5 and I-405 merger on the bridge is nonsensical? What about the 84 and 5 merger on the east side? Hope you like two lanes (one of which is an exit only lane). Portland's highways are awful but, at the same time, they don't have any room to expand. It's not just issues with eminent domain. How is it geographically possible to add a lane through the curves? Or getting onto 5 north from 84? We're stuck with the highways we have. Relieving local demand seems like the best response.
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Aug 10, 2014 03:17
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xrunner posted:Yeah. I-5 through Portland is a mess. The fact that there are no southbound ramps between downtown and 99? The fact that the curves back up traffic even more than a three lane interstate already would? The fact that the I-5 and I-405 merger on the bridge is nonsensical? What about the 84 and 5 merger on the east side? Hope you like two lanes (one of which is an exit only lane). Portland's highways are awful but, at the same time, they don't have any room to expand. It's not just issues with eminent domain. How is it geographically possible to add a lane through the curves? Or getting onto 5 north from 84? We're stuck with the highways we have. Relieving local demand seems like the best response. There is also a lot of research that shows that adding lanes only solves congestion to a point. Eventually people see that traffic isn't an issue and they drive more, filling the new lanes up with more cars until the congestion returns.
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Aug 10, 2014 03:49
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:There is also a lot of research that shows that adding lanes only solves congestion to a point. Eventually people see that traffic isn't an issue and they drive more, filling the new lanes up with more cars until the congestion returns. Yes. I've seen this research too. I guess I really just think that instead of trying to solve our (unsolvable) highway problem, we need to just figure out how to make the highways undesirable for local traffic.
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Aug 10, 2014 04:01
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The Eastside expansion was more of a gently caress up but ultimately the city didn't really pay that much for its system, the issue is more than a lot of tax money in improved neighborhoods hasn't been released back to the tax base yet which has starved the budget. Tax Increment Financing works by the act that property taxes that result from improved property values in an area are used to finance improvements (or bonds to pay for improvements) in that area. The Pearl has exploded and its property values skyrocketed but the city still only a silver of the money from them. Ultimately, the there is talk about wrapping these districts up one by one. Anyway, besides transportation there is the second big issue in Portland, homelessness. Recently the city has decided to start citing homeless structures for "illegal structures" with the possibility of them having to show up in court, their property is impounded and their pets are taken away to shelters. Needless to say, many of these people who can barely say their name much less work though the legal system, and there has been a massive back up (3 months+) in shelters. Basically, Portland is starting to simply jail people for being homeless (many of them people with mental problems that should be in care) with absolutely no plan even to provide shelter space because it is cheaper (well theoretically). http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/the-secret-weapon/Content?oid=11833364 Ardennes fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 04:06
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xrunner posted:Yes. I've seen this research too. I guess I really just think that instead of trying to solve our (unsolvable) highway problem, we need to just figure out how to make the highways undesirable for local traffic. Local traffic on the freeways during rush hour isn't the issue. In the evening, half the cars stuck on I-5 NB north of the 405 have Washington plates. On the south bound, if it is backed up in the curves, it is often backed up into Tigard, Tualatin, and sometimes all the way to Willsonville. On the 405, all the back up is people trying to get onto 26 to get out to Beaverton and Hillsboro. But I guess that all gets back to the housing situation in Portland. But I don't think they can really solve that, because these commuters likely won't settle for less than a detached home with a generous yard for as little money as possible.
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Aug 10, 2014 04:19
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Local traffic on the freeways during rush hour isn't the issue. In the evening, half the cars stuck on I-5 NB north of the 405 have Washington plates. MAX lines to Vancouver, Tigard/Tualatin, and Hillsboro via 26 would help a great deal with this, but... well, you know.
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Aug 10, 2014 04:25
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:Local traffic on the freeways during rush hour isn't the issue. In the evening, half the cars stuck on I-5 NB north of the 405 have Washington plates. One way to try to attack the issue is seriously redo how Trimet is funded, Trimet has to fund itself for the most part (a reason why fares are sky high) with a limited .7% payroll tax (which is also flat). Ultimately, one way to increase funding is to make it progressive and add new brackets to it and spent that money on improving bus services greatly.
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Aug 10, 2014 04:28
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Ardennes posted:Anyway, besides transportation there is the second big issue in Portland, homelessness. Recently the city has decided to start citing homeless structures for "illegal structures" with the possibility of them having to show up in court, their property is impounded and their pets are taken away to shelters. Needless to say, many of these people who can barely say their name much less work though the legal system, and there has been a massive back up (3 months+) in shelters. Basically, Portland is starting to simply jail people for being homeless (many of them people with mental problems that should be in care) with absolutely no plan even to provide shelter space because it is cheaper (well theoretically). IIRC Hales ran on a promise to gently caress over the homeless. Correct me if I'm wrong. He's certainly done his best since taking office.
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Aug 10, 2014 04:30
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xrunner posted:IIRC Hales ran on a promise to gently caress over the homeless. Correct me if I'm wrong. He's certainly done his best since taking office. Basically his only opponent during the race imploded because the Oregonian and the local media ran a daily story for weeks about the fact he once punched a girl in college at a party. That said, your right though Hales was anti-homeless from the beginning and even the Mercury backed him. Portland sure is wacky isn't it.
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Aug 10, 2014 04:37
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Ardennes posted:Basically his only opponent during the race imploded because the Oregonian and the local media ran a daily story for weeks about the fact he once punched a girl in college at a party. That said, your right though Hales was anti-homeless from the beginning and even the Mercury backed him. Yep. I remember punch-gate. Smith was definitely the better candidate policy wise. But he punched people, which, honestly, is a flaw. That said, I'd have voted for Jeffry dahlmer over Hales. Dude seemed evil as gently caress. HashtagGirlboss fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 04:43
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Ardennes posted:Basically his only opponent during the race imploded because the Oregonian and the local media ran a daily story for weeks about the fact he once punched a girl in college at a party. That said, your right though Hales was anti-homeless from the beginning and even the Mercury backed him. To be fair, when that story came out Smith basically totally failed every possible aspect of media control on that and was sending emails to reporters without consulting his staff at like 3am.
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Aug 10, 2014 04:44
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