NASCAR Driver Tony Stewart killed another driver with his car.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > NASCAR Driver Tony Stewart killed another driver with his car.

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Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

....

No comment.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 16:58

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# ? May 15, 2024 20:15

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

ALFbrot posted:

*driver of said car guns throttle*

I refuse to believe that, at those speeds, gunning the throttle is the best way to turn. The car wasn't going very fast, but suddenly, the huge back tires were rotating very, very fast, because noted racing hothead Tony Stewart decided to be the one driver to push his foot down on the gas pedal.

edit: No, I don't think Tony meant to hit or kill the kid. I think, at worst, he was trying to scare him. At best, he couldn't avoid him. I think it's likely a lot closer to worst than best.

See the rear tires? Fun experiment. Take a paper cup, lay it on its side. Push it. See how it spins on its axis? Now push it harder. Does it spin faster?

Physics :science:

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:00

Brogeoisie: Jan 12, 2005; "Look, I'm a private citizen," he said. "One thing that I don't have to do is sit here and open my kimono as it relates to how much money I make or didn't."

VikingSkull posted:

See the rear tires? Fun experiment. Take a paper cup, lay it on its side. Push it. See how it spins on its axis? Now push it harder. Does it spin faster?

Physics

yeah, this is true, but because of the speed he was going at, he wouldn't have killed Ward if he just coasted and clipped him. He accelerated, which exponentially increases the force applied to him when he made contact.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:07

runoverbobby: Apr 21, 2007; Fighting like beavers.

ALFbrot posted:

I refuse to believe that, at those speeds, gunning the throttle is the best way to turn.

It's a sprint car configured for racing on a dirt track with very little traction.
And you're just gonna refuse to believe that it doesn't turn the same way as your Jetta?

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:07

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

Brogeoisie posted:

yeah, this is true, but because of the speed he was going at, he wouldn't have killed Ward if he just coasted and clipped him. He accelerated, which exponentially increases the force applied to him when he made contact.

you're right it probably would have been better to clip the guy in the femurs with the leading edge of the front wing

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:10

Magugu: Mar 30, 2013; I came to drink, fight, and f@ck. And im fresh outta beer, so what will it be?

Having drove 360 sprints (not at that specific track though)I know that there is no way that he did not see him. Granted you cannot see out of the right side at all, due to the wing. Visibility out of the front is very good.

I might buy that argument that he couldn't see him if they were at racing speeds, because the slide would preclude you from seeing out. But they were under caution.

I also don't buy the idea of "they use the throttle to turn". While this is a true statement, it only matters at racing speeds. And again they were under caution. The cars actually turn quite well, if a bit wobbly, at lower speeds. The cars will under caution rev and slide, but thats to keep heat in the oil and tires, not to turn.

I also have a hard time believing that he couldn't see him, due to lighting, and his black fire suit. Videos always show lighting that is much more poor than what is actually there. While the lighting is not as good as what you would see at a Nascar track. It looks fairly typical for a bullring dirt track. And a driver of Tony's experience should have had no issue.

When a caution comes out the object becomes to slow the car down, clean your visor, and look for the incident. Tony knew where the other driver was likely well before he entered the turn. He had the option of slowing up a bit and getting to the low line. He didn't do that. There was a car just in front and inside of him. I would even give Tony points if he would have made a move to the left, and got close to the inside car, in an attempt to get as far away from the other driver as possible. He didn't do that. Tony maintained his line, knowing that the driver was standing there. HE KNEW HE WAS THERE, AND DIDN'T MAKE AN EFFORT TO GET OUT OF THE WAY.

This is where things get fuzzy. The above is the facts, what I write now is opinion. I do not believe for one second that he intentionally hit him. However he didn't give him an inch either. I think he was trying to scare him and kick some dirt in his face, and just blipped the throttle a half second too early. It is not outside of the realm of thought that Tony would try something like this, and he has probably done it a few times before. He just got it wrong this time, and killed a guy.

As far as the legal aspect of it, im not a lawyer. But I do think he was at fault, and had ample opportunity to not hit him. And truthfully I hope an example is made of Tony, to quell this type of action.

As far as the other driver, he absolutely should not have got out of his car. If he would have stayed in his seat, we wouldn't be talking about this. If a driver is out of the car before safety personnel are there the race should be red flagged, and the cars stopped immediately.

There was quite a few failures here, but Tony is at fault. He could have made the decision to not be that close but he didnt.

Edit: spelling

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:14

Byolante: Mar 23, 2008; by Cyrano4747

VikingSkull posted:

you're right it probably would have been better to clip the guy in the femurs with the leading edge of the front wing

It probably would have been better to drive similarly to the other drivers while the race was under yellows instead of killing someone because you are a petulant poo poo with a history of attacking people

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:14

ALFbrot: Apr 17, 2002

So if it is Literally Impossible to Steer These Vehicles without gunning to 7000 RPM, how do they line up on the track? Do teams of strongmen carry them out of the trucks and onto the road. Please continue educating me.

VikingSkull posted:

See the rear tires? Fun experiment. Take a paper cup, lay it on its side. Push it. See how it spins on its axis? Now push it harder. Does it spin faster?

Physics

The cup will rotate on the same path, just faster. It doesn't magically turn tighter because I pushed it harder.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:15

ALFbrot: Apr 17, 2002

Magugu posted:

Having drove 360 sprints (not at that specific track though)I know that there is no way that he did not see him. Granted you cannot see out of the right side at all, due to the wing. Visibility out of the front is very good.

I might buy that argument that he couldn't see him if they were at racing speeds, because the slide would preclude you from seeing out. But they were under caution.

I also don't buy the idea of "they use the throttle to turn". While this is a true statement, it only matters at racing speeds. And again they were under caution. The cars actually turn quite well, if a bit wobbly, at lower speeds. The cars will under caution rev and slide, but thats to keep heat in the oil and tires, not to turn.

I also have a hard time believing that he couldn't see him, due to lighting, and his black fire suit. Videos always show lighting that is much more poor than what is actually there. While the lighting is not as good as what you would see at a Nascar track. It looks fairly typical for a bullring dirt track. And a driver of Tony's experience should have had no issue.

When a caution comes out the object becomes to slow the car down, clean your visor, and look for the incident. Tony knew where the other driver was likely well before he entered the turn. He had the option of slowing up a bit and getting to the low line. He didn't do that. There was a car just in front and inside of him. I would even give Tony points if he would have made a move to the left, and got close to the inside car, in an attempt to get as far away from the other driver as possible. He didn't do that. Tony maintained his line, knowing that the driver was standing there. HE KNEW HE WAS THERE, AND DIDN'T MAKE AN EFFORT TO GET OUT OF THE WAY.

This is where things get fuzzy. The above is the facts, what I write now is opinion. I do not believe for one second that he intentionally hit him. However he didn't give him an inch either. I think he was trying to scare him and kick some dirt in his face, and just blipped the throttle a half second too early. It is not outside of the realm of thought that Tony would try something like this, and he has probably done it a few times before. He just got it wrong this time, and killed a guy.

As far as the legal aspect of it, im not a lawyer. But I do think he was at fault, and had ample opportunity to not hit him. And truthfully I hope an example is made of Tony, to quell this type of action.

As far as the other driver, he absolutely should not have got out of his car. If he would have stayed in his seat, we wouldn't be talking about this. If a driver is out of the car before safety personnel are there the race should be red flagged, and the cars stopped immediately.

There was quite a few failures here, but Tony is at fault. He could have made the decision to not be that close but he didnt.

Edit: spelling

Lol look at this guy who clearly doesn't know a thing about racing cars.

One tire is bigger than the other, so hands off the wheel! We're foot-pushin this baby to turn-town!

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:17

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

Magugu posted:

Having drove 360 sprints (not at that specific track though)I know that there is no way that he did not see him. Granted you cannot see out of the right side at all, due to the wing. Visibility out of the front is very good.

I might buy that argument that he couldn't see him if they were at racing speeds, because the slide would preclude you from seeing out. But they were under caution.

I also don't buy the idea of "they use the throttle to turn". While this is a true statement, it only matters at racing speeds. And again they were under caution. The cars actually turn quite well, if a bit wobbly, at lower speeds. The cars will under caution rev and slide, but thats to keep heat in the oil and tires, not to turn.

I also have a hard time believing that he couldn't see him, due to lighting, and his black fire suit. Videos always show lighting that is much more poor than what is actually there. While the lighting is not as good as what you would see at a Nascar track. It looks fairly typical for a bullring dirt track. And a driver of Tony's experience should have had no issue.

When a caution comes out the object becomes to slow the car down, clean your visor, and look for the incident. Tony knew where the other driver was likely well before he entered the turn. He had the option of slowing up a bit and getting to the low line. He didn't do that. There was a car just in front and inside of him. I would even give Tony points if he would have made a move to the left, and got close to the inside car, in an attempt to get as far away from the other driver as possible. He didn't do that. Tony maintained his line, knowing that the driver was standing there. HE KNEW HE WAS THERE, AND DIDN'T MAKE AN EFFORT TO GET OUT OF THE WAY.

This is where things get fuzzy. The above is the facts, what I write now is opinion. I do not believe for one second that he intentionally hit him. However he didn't give him an inch either. I think he was trying to scare him and kick some dirt in his face, and just blipped the throttle a half second too early. It is not outside of the realm of thought that Tony would try something like this, and he has probably done it a few times before. He just got it wrong this time, and killed a guy.

As far as the legal aspect of it, im not a lawyer. But I do think he was at fault, and had ample opportunity to not hit him. And truthfully I hope an example is made of Tony, to quell this type of action.

As far as the other driver, he absolutely should not have got out of his car. If he would have stayed in his seat, we wouldn't be talking about this. If a driver is out of the car before safety personnel are there the race should be red flagged, and the cars stopped immediately.

There was quite a few failures here, but Tony is at fault. He could have made the decision to not be that close but he didnt.

Edit: spelling

Your opinion matches up with eye witness accounts that say he drifted out to the crashed car, and then his car swung sidewards (probably from application of the throttle) and it was the swing that caught the other driver under the wheel. Would he have been hit if he didn't get on the throttle? Maybe, but maybe he wouldn't have been pulled under the wheel and walks away with serious injury instead of death.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:17

Byolante: Mar 23, 2008; by Cyrano4747

Like seriously why is this guy even allowed on a race track with the history of idiotic violence he has. Surely climbing into another driver's car to attack him is something that would get you barred from the sport.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:20

Basticle: Sep 12, 2011

If i ever get murdered i hope its by a famous athlete so espn can put up a pic of me and pretemd to give a poo poo for 5 minutes

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:21

kidcoelacanth: Sep 23, 2009

Magugu posted:

Having drove 360 sprints (not at that specific track though)I know that there is no way that he did not see him. Granted you cannot see out of the right side at all, due to the wing. Visibility out of the front is very good.

I might buy that argument that he couldn't see him if they were at racing speeds, because the slide would preclude you from seeing out. But they were under caution.

I also don't buy the idea of "they use the throttle to turn". While this is a true statement, it only matters at racing speeds. And again they were under caution. The cars actually turn quite well, if a bit wobbly, at lower speeds. The cars will under caution rev and slide, but thats to keep heat in the oil and tires, not to turn.

I also have a hard time believing that he couldn't see him, due to lighting, and his black fire suit. Videos always show lighting that is much more poor than what is actually there. While the lighting is not as good as what you would see at a Nascar track. It looks fairly typical for a bullring dirt track. And a driver of Tony's experience should have had no issue.

When a caution comes out the object becomes to slow the car down, clean your visor, and look for the incident. Tony knew where the other driver was likely well before he entered the turn. He had the option of slowing up a bit and getting to the low line. He didn't do that. There was a car just in front and inside of him. I would even give Tony points if he would have made a move to the left, and got close to the inside car, in an attempt to get as far away from the other driver as possible. He didn't do that. Tony maintained his line, knowing that the driver was standing there. HE KNEW HE WAS THERE, AND DIDN'T MAKE AN EFFORT TO GET OUT OF THE WAY.

This is where things get fuzzy. The above is the facts, what I write now is opinion. I do not believe for one second that he intentionally hit him. However he didn't give him an inch either. I think he was trying to scare him and kick some dirt in his face, and just blipped the throttle a half second too early. It is not outside of the realm of thought that Tony would try something like this, and he has probably done it a few times before. He just got it wrong this time, and killed a guy.

As far as the legal aspect of it, im not a lawyer. But I do think he was at fault, and had ample opportunity to not hit him. And truthfully I hope an example is made of Tony, to quell this type of action.

As far as the other driver, he absolutely should not have got out of his car. If he would have stayed in his seat, we wouldn't be talking about this. If a driver is out of the car before safety personnel are there the race should be red flagged, and the cars stopped immediately.

There was quite a few failures here, but Tony is at fault. He could have made the decision to not be that close but he didnt.

Edit: spelling

This is a pretty reasoned analysis of it, yeah. As far as what action NASCAR is going to take at this point I have no idea, the fact that the authorities don't seem to be pursuing criminal charges probably means they won't do much.

Byolante posted:

Like seriously why is this guy even allowed on a race track with the history of idiotic violence he has. Surely climbing into another driver's car to attack him is something that would get you barred from the sport.

This is a bit hyperbolic, though. Not even sure what the second sentence is getting at.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:22

Magugu: Mar 30, 2013; I came to drink, fight, and f@ck. And im fresh outta beer, so what will it be?

ALFbrot posted:

Lol look at this guy who clearly doesn't know a thing about racing cars.

One tire is bigger than the other, so hands off the wheel! We're foot-pushin this baby to turn-town!

Ive drove 360 sprints with ASCS. I think I know a thing or two about racing cars. At medium to high speeds, yes, you have to use the throttle to get through a turn. At low speeds they turn very easily, its just wobbly as hell.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:24

ALFbrot: Apr 17, 2002

Magugu posted:

Ive drove 360 sprints with ASCS. I think I know a thing or two about racing cars. At medium to high speeds, yes, you have to use the throttle to get through a turn. At low speeds they turn very easily, its just wobbly as hell.

I know, that's the position I'm arguing. I am merely lampooning the people who believe that sprint car steering wheels are merely decorative.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:25

CactusWeasle: Aug 1, 2006; It's not a party until the bomb squad says it is

Tony attacked Kenny Irwin and then he died also

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:26

kidcoelacanth: Sep 23, 2009

Was this all a ploy by Regan Smith to get more seat time? We investigate next

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:27

skaboomizzy: Nov 12, 2003; There is nothing I want to be. There is nothing I want to do.
I don't even have an image of what I want to be. I have nothing. All that exists is zero.

The action NASCAR will take will be telling drivers to stay the hell in their cars after a wreck until the safety crew gets there. That's it.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:28

Magugu: Mar 30, 2013; I came to drink, fight, and f@ck. And im fresh outta beer, so what will it be?

ALFbrot posted:

I know, that's the position I'm arguing. I am merely lampooning the people who believe that sprint car steering wheels are merely decorative.

Fair enough, I can admit when i'm trolled.

Byolante posted:

Like seriously why is this guy even allowed on a race track with the history of idiotic violence he has. Surely climbing into another driver's car to attack him is something that would get you barred from the sport.

Well prior to the incident, series, tracks, and other drives loved for him to come out. Big name star at the little track, puts butts in seats. Transgressions slide when the almighty dollar take hold.

As far as the future we shall see.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:30

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

Magugu posted:

Ive drove 360 sprints with ASCS. I think I know a thing or two about racing cars. At medium to high speeds, yes, you have to use the throttle to get through a turn. At low speeds they turn very easily, its just wobbly as hell.

I don't disagree that they can turn, but I think we're underestimating the speeds they are at.

It's a half mile track and Tony only makes it around once when it happens. No one is hard on the brakes, as it appears to be a car up against the wall. We also don't know exactly when the yellow comes out. How hard would you have been on the brakes, and what speed would you have been at about the same place as that on the track?

It looks to me like they are still doing 80-100mph.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:34

Xerol: Jan 13, 2007

VikingSkull posted:

See the rear tires? Fun experiment. Take a paper cup, lay it on its side. Push it. See how it spins on its axis? Now push it harder. Does it spin faster?

Physics

I misread this and spent 15 minutes trying to balance a paperclip on its side.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:34

Swedish Butt-Whistle: Feb 12, 2004; Mentally Trill

Accidental but avoidable had he not INTENDED to scare the poo poo out of him by playing sprint chicken. Guilty as charged, sentenced to deaf.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:34

Feels Villeneuve: Oct 7, 2007; Setter is Better.

CactusWeasle posted:

Tony attacked Kenny Irwin and then he died also

That was extremely good

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:34

Swedish Butt-Whistle: Feb 12, 2004; Mentally Trill

VikingSkull posted:

It looks to me like they are still doing 80-100mph.

45?

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:36

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

Fag Boy Jim posted:

That was extremely good

I agree

throw some more gloves rear end in a top hat

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:39

Byolante: Mar 23, 2008; by Cyrano4747

kidcoelacanth posted:

This is a bit hyperbolic, though. Not even sure what the second sentence is getting at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mRY79mat34

He is just lucky Kenny Irwin didn't decide to behave how he did yesterday

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:40

fuseshock: Aug 7, 2010

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwc8obMmv7o

This is also pretty good. Matt Kenseth didn't run him over.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:41

Feels Villeneuve: Oct 7, 2007; Setter is Better.

Race car drivers are dumb as loving nails

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:42

kidcoelacanth: Sep 23, 2009

Fag Boy Jim posted:

Race car drivers are dumb as loving nails

Uh I think you'll find that at least one NASCAR driver has a college degree :smug:

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:43

Matlock: Sep 12, 2004; Childs Play Charity 2011 Total: $1755

Turn left Tony!! Noo

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:44

Magugu: Mar 30, 2013; I came to drink, fight, and f@ck. And im fresh outta beer, so what will it be?

VikingSkull posted:

I don't disagree that they can turn, but I think we're underestimating the speeds they are at.

It's a half mile track and Tony only makes it around once when it happens. No one is hard on the brakes, as it appears to be a car up against the wall. We also don't know exactly when the yellow comes out. How hard would you have been on the brakes, and what speed would you have been at about the same place as that on the track?

It looks to me like they are still doing 80-100mph.

Not knowing this track, racing speeds are probably 80-110. The flagman would have likely thrown yellow 2-5 seconds after the initial spin. With sprint cars, they are always quick on the yellow.

When your off throttle you lose speed fast due to the drag of the wings. I could be full throttle coming out of 4, and be entering the pits in turn 2 without touching the brakes. The brakes do suck in these cars, you learn the fine art of aerobraking.

I would say that he was 30-40 MPH when tony hit him. Again, not fact, just my educated opinion.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:44

Mahoning: Feb 3, 2007

Let's face it, it was probably just a horrible combination of Stewart intending to scare the kid, and the kid stepping right into the path where Stewart intended the car to go, not knowing that Stewart was going to gun it and fishtail the car. That doesn't absolve anyone of blame, but it likely explains how this might have happened.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:50

Kirios: Jan 26, 2010

Magugu posted:

Having drove 360 sprints (not at that specific track though)I know that there is no way that he did not see him. Granted you cannot see out of the right side at all, due to the wing. Visibility out of the front is very good.

I might buy that argument that he couldn't see him if they were at racing speeds, because the slide would preclude you from seeing out. But they were under caution.

I also don't buy the idea of "they use the throttle to turn". While this is a true statement, it only matters at racing speeds. And again they were under caution. The cars actually turn quite well, if a bit wobbly, at lower speeds. The cars will under caution rev and slide, but thats to keep heat in the oil and tires, not to turn.

I also have a hard time believing that he couldn't see him, due to lighting, and his black fire suit. Videos always show lighting that is much more poor than what is actually there. While the lighting is not as good as what you would see at a Nascar track. It looks fairly typical for a bullring dirt track. And a driver of Tony's experience should have had no issue.

When a caution comes out the object becomes to slow the car down, clean your visor, and look for the incident. Tony knew where the other driver was likely well before he entered the turn. He had the option of slowing up a bit and getting to the low line. He didn't do that. There was a car just in front and inside of him. I would even give Tony points if he would have made a move to the left, and got close to the inside car, in an attempt to get as far away from the other driver as possible. He didn't do that. Tony maintained his line, knowing that the driver was standing there. HE KNEW HE WAS THERE, AND DIDN'T MAKE AN EFFORT TO GET OUT OF THE WAY.

This is where things get fuzzy. The above is the facts, what I write now is opinion. I do not believe for one second that he intentionally hit him. However he didn't give him an inch either. I think he was trying to scare him and kick some dirt in his face, and just blipped the throttle a half second too early. It is not outside of the realm of thought that Tony would try something like this, and he has probably done it a few times before. He just got it wrong this time, and killed a guy.

As far as the legal aspect of it, im not a lawyer. But I do think he was at fault, and had ample opportunity to not hit him. And truthfully I hope an example is made of Tony, to quell this type of action.

As far as the other driver, he absolutely should not have got out of his car. If he would have stayed in his seat, we wouldn't be talking about this. If a driver is out of the car before safety personnel are there the race should be red flagged, and the cars stopped immediately.

There was quite a few failures here, but Tony is at fault. He could have made the decision to not be that close but he didnt.

Edit: spelling

If what you say is true (and I've no reason to doubt you on this...you sound like you know what you're talking about) then this is vehicular manslaughter at least. Tony needs to do a LOT of jailtime for this.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:50

Seizure Meat: Jul 23, 2008; by Smythe

Magugu posted:

Not knowing this track, racing speeds are probably 80-110. The flagman would have likely thrown yellow 2-5 seconds after the initial spin. With sprint cars, they are always quick on the yellow.

When your off throttle you lose speed fast due to the drag of the wings. I could be full throttle coming out of 4, and be entering the pits in turn 2 without touching the brakes. The brakes do suck in these cars, you learn the fine art of aerobraking.

I would say that he was 30-40 MPH when tony hit him. Again, not fact, just my educated opinion.

I can agree with this, you'd know, except the quick on the yellow part. I've seen really lax flagging at OCFS during Outlaw races when they have their own flaggers, nevermind when guys like the CRSA are there.

They run mid 15 second laps at Canandaguia, and it's a half mile, so that's like an average of 125mph or so? So straight speeds are probably 140 or so.

# ? Aug 10, 2014 17:51