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Hedera Helix posted:MAX lines to Vancouver, Tigard/Tualatin, and Hillsboro via 26 would help a great deal with this, but... well, you know. There is already a MAX line out to the far end of Hillsboro. There is now the WES, a diesel train, that runs from the MAX line in Beaverton all the way to Willsonville. I'm not sure on how much any of those are utilized. And we can't run light rail to Vancouver because of
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Aug 10, 2014 04:45
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Ardennes posted:Basically his only opponent during the race imploded because the Oregonian and the local media ran a daily story for weeks about the fact he once punched a girl in college at a party. That said, your right though Hales was anti-homeless from the beginning and even the Mercury backed him.
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Aug 10, 2014 05:12
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anthonypants posted:That and his driver's license got revoked like seven times in ten years? And then he decided to run for governor of Ohio
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Aug 10, 2014 05:21
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anthonypants posted:That and his driver's license got revoked like seven times in ten years? Remember that Hales has plenty of dirt in his past and was actively living in Washington to get around taxes and dumped his city council job for better pay (not to mention was bought by the Portland Business Alliance). So we got a mayor that can drive and didn't punch any women in college we know of but absolutely doesn't give a poo poo about the city itself. I wasn't in love with Smith either but it isn't a surprise the city is going to way it is with Hales. I have a feeling the council is also going to go much more business friendly in the future as well. Also, the street fee head tax is a terrible idea, as was the arts head tax.
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Aug 10, 2014 05:27
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:There is already a MAX line out to the far end of Hillsboro. There is now the WES, a diesel train, that runs from the MAX line in Beaverton all the way to Willsonville. I'm not sure on how much any of those are utilized. You guys should just rebuild that bridge on your own, then toll the poo poo out of it. loving hate Vancouverites.
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Aug 10, 2014 05:27
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Beowulfs_Ghost posted:But I guess that all gets back to the housing situation in Portland. But I don't think they can really solve that, because these commuters likely won't settle for less than a detached home with a generous yard for as little money as possible. I don't think that's true. As the cost of living in Portland proper increases, it pushes the poorer people out to cheaper living, which are places like Beaverton, Hillsboro, and Gresham. And having public transportation options for them rocks.
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Aug 10, 2014 05:28
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Thanatosian posted:You guys should just rebuild that bridge on your own, then toll the poo poo out of it. At this point Vancouver/Clark County is happy to build the bridge now the CRC is finally dead, just without tolls, rail and Oregon has to pay half of the local costs. It sounds like a deal. Also some politician up there wants to build a freeway bridge up near Camas to Troutdale (literally on the edge of wilderness)...he probably has already told a bunch of his buddies to buy property around there. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 05:29
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Thanatosian posted:You guys should just rebuild that bridge on your own, then toll the poo poo out of it. Ardennes posted:At this point Vancouver/Clark County is happy to build the bridge now the CRC is finally dead, just without tolls, rail and Oregon has to pay half of the local costs. It sounds like a deal. It's not like the CRC project wasn't without problems; we couldn't get the Coast Guard to sign off on the design because the bridge they decided on was too low after how many years of planning? And then they started freaking out because it was running up to the deadline to get the federal money. God.
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Aug 10, 2014 05:40
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anthonypants posted:It's not like the CRC project wasn't without problems; we couldn't get the Coast Guard to sign off on the design because the bridge they decided on was too low after how many years of planning? And then they started freaking out because it was running up to the deadline to get the federal money. God. Oh no doubt the CRC was a disaster but the tolls (absolutely necessary to pay for it) and the light rail wasn't the issue with it...almost everything else with it was. The CRC would have been 5 which fed into the 3 lane I-5 south of the river, it wasn't high enough and most of the transit improvements were focused in Washington among many of its issues.
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Aug 10, 2014 05:46
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Ardennes posted:At this point Vancouver/Clark County is happy to build the bridge now the CRC is finally dead, just without tolls, rail and Oregon has to pay half of the local costs. It sounds like a deal. It sounds fair on its face, but a huge percentage of the traffic on that bridge is Vancouver assholes commuting to work or shop in Portland, without dropping any tax money over there (or over here, for that matter) to pay for the bridge. I'm actually glad the Washington legislature voted not to fund the CRC; most of the people who would be using it don't pay the taxes for it, so gently caress 'em.
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Aug 10, 2014 05:50
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It's pretty horrible that its demise allowed people like David Madore and Ann Rivers to claim a scalp, though...
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Aug 10, 2014 05:56
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Thanatosian posted:You guys should just rebuild that bridge on your own, then toll the poo poo out of it. That's exactly what we did with the sellwood bridge. Except the toll part. What I'm saying is portland has a history of building bridges for our neighbors... Who mostly just poo poo talk
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Aug 10, 2014 05:59
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xrunner posted:That's exactly what we did with the sellwood bridge. Except the toll part. What I'm saying is portland has a history of building bridges for our neighbors... Who mostly just poo poo talk
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Aug 10, 2014 06:11
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anthonypants posted:That one was hilarious. The only thing we asked Clackamas to pay was five dollars a year from vehicle registration, and they took it to referendum where it was voted down 63-37. "Good neighbors build their own bridges" that happen to almost exclusively serve the county that refuses to contribute, since the bridge, while serving nearly exclusively Clackamas county, is geographically located in Multnomah county. Seriously, gently caress Clackamas Edit: I should point out for home viewers that while Clackamas rejected a $5 increase, Multnomah accepted a $20 increase. HashtagGirlboss fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 06:47
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xrunner posted:"Good neighbors build their own bridges" that happen to almost exclusively serve the county that refuses to contribute, since the bridge, while serving nearly exclusively Clackamas county, is geographically located in Multnomah county. Seriously, gently caress Clackamas Like, if you would actually force them to pay for their poo poo, they would have to either accept the tax increase, or move the gently caress to Portland. Oh, that's why you don't do it; you're scared they'll do the latter. Maybe it's a worthwhile price to pay.
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Aug 10, 2014 07:09
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Thanatosian posted:If you were wondering why Clackamas rejected it: this is why. This is a silly post. Multnomah took on the project with the expectation that Clackamas would follow suit. The tax revolt over who would pay for legitimately necessary infrastructure upgrades came later. It's really a classic example of a suburb being a leech. Although, I could say that about Washington county and Clark county too. Portland's suburbs are horrible (as all suburbs are) Edit: although it is fair to point out that this is one of the least tax adverse towns I've lived in. I mean, we voted in the art tax in 2012, and if there was ever a stupid tax measure... Yeah HashtagGirlboss fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 07:44
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Thanatosian posted:If you were wondering why Clackamas rejected it: this is why.
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Aug 10, 2014 08:08
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The last spate of posts has made me feel quite happy about living in Eugene. We barely even have a rush hour down here.
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Aug 10, 2014 09:02
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CaptainSarcastic posted:The last spate of posts has made me feel quite happy about living in Eugene. We barely even have a rush hour down here.
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Aug 10, 2014 09:48
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CaptainSarcastic posted:The last spate of posts has made me feel quite happy about living in Eugene. We barely even have a rush hour down here. Eugene is nice. Being able to bike everywhere is an excellent plus.
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Aug 10, 2014 12:43
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I used to commute from Gig Harbor to Tacoma back before there wasn't a second Narrows Bridge. I remember back then my family hated the idea of a second bridge, that it wouldn't solve anything. Funny enough, the second bridge solved all the traffic issues. The toll sucks and seems to get higher every year, though.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:02
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Thanatosian posted:You guys should just rebuild that bridge on your own, then toll the poo poo out of it. I'd prefer just shutting down the bridge when the safety concerns become too great and waiting them out. Washington tax-tourists will be coming down to Oregon to buy our crap as long as there is a single bridge operating across the Columbia - it's really just the Vancouver commuter sprawl that would be affected. Oregon is willing to be a good neighbor and play its part, but frankly the bridge isn't in our good interest.
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Aug 10, 2014 17:15
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Kaal posted:I'd prefer just shutting down the bridge when the safety concerns become too great and waiting them out. Washington tax-tourists will be coming down to Oregon to buy our crap as long as there is a single bridge operating across the Columbia - it's really just the Vancouver commuter sprawl that would be affected. Oregon is willing to be a good neighbor and play its part, but frankly the bridge isn't in our good interest. "Washington tax-tourists" ... is that really worse than "Oregon tax-dodgers" shopping in WA and flashing their drivers license to avoid paying tax?
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Aug 10, 2014 20:45
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Kaal posted:I'd prefer just shutting down the bridge when the safety concerns become too great and waiting them out. Washington tax-tourists will be coming down to Oregon to buy our crap as long as there is a single bridge operating across the Columbia - it's really just the Vancouver commuter sprawl that would be affected. Oregon is willing to be a good neighbor and play its part, but frankly the bridge isn't in our good interest. It is if you live in NoPo and take I-5 home. You're just as snarled in bridge traffic as everyone else. Also, as others have mentioned, it's a major N/S corridor. Can't imagine the disruption if 205 was the only way over the river. That said, as far as tax tourism... I know a lady in camas who brings her cans to oregon for the bottle redemption but buys them in Washington where they don't charge a bottle deposit. Between sales tax and gas I don't see how she thinks she's getting ahead.
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Aug 10, 2014 21:02
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FRINGE posted:"Washington tax-tourists" ... is that really worse than "Oregon tax-dodgers" shopping in WA and flashing their drivers license to avoid paying tax? "Oregon tax-dodgers" aren't a real thing though. Oregonians aren't in the habit of driving up to Washington to go shopping, which is why Washington business associations tried to attract Oregonians with that tax exemption in the first place. Of course what they should have done was institute sensible progressive income tax, but tax cuts are easier. Kaal fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Aug 12, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 21:07
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xrunner posted:It is if you live in NoPo and take I-5 home. You're just as snarled in bridge traffic as everyone else. Also, as others have mentioned, it's a major N/S corridor. Can't imagine the disruption if 205 was the only way over the river. That said, as far as tax tourism... I know a lady in camas who brings her cans to oregon for the bottle redemption but buys them in Washington where they don't charge a bottle deposit. Between sales tax and gas I don't see how she thinks she's getting ahead. Yeah interstate traffic would be snarled, but Portland is much better equipped for dealing with that than Vancouver. There's certainly more cost effective ways of getting intracity commuters to their work and back than building a bridge to Vancouver - we can build a whole lot of transportation infrastructure for $3-4 billion. It's a major N/S corridor, but Oregon isn't really harmed if the commercial traffic heading to Washington or British Columbia has to route around Portland. I mean sure, it would be better if Washington had joined with Oregon and built the Columbia River Crossing using those massive federal grants, but frankly the river bridges are much more to the benefit of Vancouver (and the nation as a whole) than Portland. Oregon's main interest in that bridge was to inject that grant money into our economy, and to mitigate the effect of Vancouver traffic by incorporating the city into Portland's transit network. Portland can live without them pretty easily and still be Portland - Vancouver without those bridges is a ghost town. Kaal fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 21:19
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Kaal posted:Yeah interstate traffic would be snarled, but Portland is much better equipped for dealing with that than Vancouver. There's certainly more cost effective ways of getting intracity commuters to their work and back than building a bridge to Vancouver. It's a major N/S corridor, but Oregon isn't really harmed if the commercial traffic heading to Washington or British Columbia has to route around Portland. I mean sure, it would be better if Washington had joined with Oregon and built the Columbia River Crossing, but frankly those bridges are much more to the benefit of Vancouver than Portland. Portland can live without them pretty easily and still be Portland - Vancouver without those bridges is a ghost town.
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Aug 10, 2014 21:26
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anthonypants posted:It affects Portland because of all the commuters who drive here from Vancouver. Bridges are really expensive. If the only goal is to reduce the impact of Vancouver commuters on Portlanders, then there are lots of more cost-effective ways. What do Portlanders care if Vancouverites spend hours in deadlock, when they can take a bypass or a TriMet spur and be home in 20 minutes? The cost of the CRC alone was equivalent to the lifetime investment into light rail in Portland - think of how much could be done if the MAX literally doubled in scope, much less if that money was split into comprehensive transportation upgrades (new bypasses, extended carpool lanes, more cycling infrastructure, TriMet expansions, etc.) If Oregon was going to spend $3-4 billion for purely its own traffic interests, there's no way that money would end up building a bridge to Vancouver. Kaal fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Aug 10, 2014 |
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Aug 10, 2014 21:34
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Kaal posted:I'd prefer just shutting down the bridge when the safety concerns become too great and waiting them out. I was thinking about it the past couple days, while on 205, and had the horrible thought that nothing will get done until either the I-5 bridge or the I-205 bridge collapses into the river and the other bridge is closed to all non-essential traffic out of safety concerns. I hope it doesn't take that long for repairs/replacement to happen. 
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Aug 10, 2014 21:43
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Vavrek posted:I was thinking about it the past couple days, while on 205, and had the horrible thought that nothing will get done until either the I-5 bridge or the I-205 bridge collapses into the river and the other bridge is closed to all non-essential traffic out of safety concerns. I hope it doesn't take that long for repairs/replacement to happen. Well the I-205 bridge is one of the worst-rated in the nation (worse than several that have subsequently collapsed), so it will definitely be shut down one way or the other. The I-5 bridges aren't much better, and definitely will need replacement as well. And according to transit engineers, the problems are so severe that it is more cost-effective to replace the bridge entirely (i.e. How the CRC would have replaced the Interstate Bridge) than to attempt repairing them.
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Aug 10, 2014 21:53
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Vavrek posted:I hope it doesn't take that long for repairs/replacement to happen. It takes that long.
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Aug 10, 2014 22:00
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Thanatosian posted:It sounds fair on its face, but a huge percentage of the traffic on that bridge is Vancouver assholes commuting to work or shop in Portland, without dropping any tax money over there (or over here, for that matter) to pay for the bridge. Regardless of residence, if you work in Oregon you pay Oregon income tax, so OR is getting something out of Vancouverites. I lived in Vantucky for 6 years before I came to my senses and moved to the other side of the river. gently caress that strip mall hell hole. Hope you enjoy stoplights, because you'll spend most of your time in Vancouver in front of a red one.
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Aug 12, 2014 02:39
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SyHopeful posted:Regardless of residence, if you work in Oregon you pay Oregon income tax, so OR is getting something out of Vancouverites.
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Aug 12, 2014 02:55
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anthonypants posted:Don't you get it refunded at the end of the year though? I only ever got maybe 75 bucks back.
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Aug 12, 2014 03:01
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anthonypants posted:Don't you get it refunded at the end of the year though? Only if you own a house and/or have a bunch of deductions. OR taxes can eat a fat bag of dicks.
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Aug 12, 2014 03:03
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kensei posted:Only if you own a house and/or have a bunch of deductions. OR taxes can eat a fat bag of dicks. I don't see a reason why people with jobs in Oregon shouldn't pay Oregon taxes. If they didn't want to pay income taxes they could just work in Washington State.
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Aug 12, 2014 07:26
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Ardennes posted:I don't see a reason why people with jobs in Oregon shouldn't pay Oregon taxes. If they didn't want to pay income taxes they could just work in Washington State.
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Aug 12, 2014 08:54
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FRINGE posted:WA loves sales tax and hates income tax. Yeah which also is the most regressive way to do things possible beyond a high VAT.
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Aug 12, 2014 08:57
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Ardennes posted:Yeah which also is the most regressive way to do things possible beyond a high VAT.
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Aug 12, 2014 09:02
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FRINGE posted:I agree, I was just making the simple observation. Just commenting on it, Oregon has a lot of problems but I think we actually do a lot of things right including at least parts of our tax system. I am glad we have public liquor distribution and sales as well. It is just sad to see the most liberal city in the state actually head to the right so quickly and the population, including people in their 20s in the SE/NE, just kind of passively ignore it.
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Aug 12, 2014 09:26
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