Pacific Northwest Thread

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Pacific Northwest Thread

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Javid posted:

The mountains on 97 are crossed by heavy haul trucks daily. If Portland gets THAT bad, the climbing will easily become the lesser evil. There's a big wal-mart facility out there anyway; for those guys it won't even be a change.

Like I said, for some of the lighter vehicles it'll be preferable. But generally speaking it's faster and cheaper to go a few hundred miles out of your way to stay on flat roads than to try slow-poking it up and down hills at 25 miles per hour, hoping that your brakes don't burn up. Or so sayeth my owner-operator cousin at least, who incidentally crossed the Columbia at Umatilla the other day rather than crossing the Interstate Bridge (though of course he was on his way to North Carolina out of Portland so it makes sense regardless). Hopefully it won't come to all that though.

Kaal fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Aug 14, 2014

# ? Aug 14, 2014 06:07

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? Jun 1, 2024 11:18

Javid: Oct 21, 2004

I spent a time on the Seattle - bend route doing heavy haul with trucks grossing 105k+ and it really only sucks in winter. If 97 became a bigger freight corridor they'd probably plow it better and alleviate that some, even.

Creeping up a mountain at 15 mph is far less awful than inching along in traffic, since you can at least use the cruise mostly.

# ? Aug 14, 2014 07:53

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

Javid posted:

I spent a time on the Seattle - bend route doing heavy haul with trucks grossing 105k+ and it really only sucks in winter. If 97 became a bigger freight corridor they'd probably plow it better and alleviate that some, even. Creeping up a mountain at 15 mph is far less awful than inching along in traffic, since you can at least use the cruise mostly.

That's a fair point, and I suppose that they could come up the I-5 as far as Highway 20 before cutting over the mountains to Highway 97, so they could avoid both Portland congestion and the most of the mountain range.

# ? Aug 14, 2014 08:12

size1one: Jun 24, 2008; I don't want a nation just for me, I want a nation for everyone

Kaal posted:

Well Vancouver is not in Oregon, so of course they aren't part of the Oregonian political process. If Vancouver wants bridges into Portland, convince Washington to pony up their share of the money to replace the decaying bridges. Oregon taxpayers aren't going to spend $4 billion just so Vancouverites can go eat on Mississippi Street. Public opinion in Vancouver has to shift to seeing these bridges as something worth fighting for, or they'll just end up being ordered closed by the Oregon DOT due to liability concerns.

I think that you generally have the right attitude in regards to the need for mixed-use bridges, but I find that Oregonians are pretty insensitive to the idea that Vancouver is connected to Portland and therefore deserves a seat on our side of the table. We want to be good neighbors, but that only goes so far.

Contrary to popular belief, 60,000+ Vancouverites are Oregon taxpayers**. The lack of representation and benefit from Oregon income tax is one reason I insist on remote work rather than in a Portland office. The antipathy cuts both ways.

I believe the only additional tax exemption for out-of-state workers is for days not worked in Oregon, which is essentially no exemption at all.

**I tried to find what this means in actual tax dollars but couldn't find the numbers. Commuters from Washington have a higher than average income though.

Ardennes posted:

Anyway the proposed toll solution would just toll southbound traffic which would be almost entirely Washington residents anyway.

As far as giving Washington residents influence in our political process, they live in Washington and vote for Washington politicians, they don't get to double dip their influence. Oregon has pretty low corporate taxes but income taxes balance a lot of that out. Also, yeah Washington residents do get some exemptions I believe for Oregon taxes but I haven't looked at it in detail.

Anyway, the bridge itself was already a compromise position so unless Oregon just pays for their portion without question, it isn't going to work.

My point was that you can't put the lack of affect out-of-state consumers on Oregon's economy on the out-of-state consumer when it's Oregon tax law that determines it. It's a little mind boggling to hear complaints about out-of-state consumers feeding money into the local economy. I mean, I would love it for Portland consumers to flock into downtown Vancouver and revitalize it.

# ? Aug 14, 2014 14:21

Ham Equity: Apr 16, 2013; The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.; Grimey Drawer

size1one posted:

Contrary to popular belief, 60,000+ Vancouverites are Oregon taxpayers**. The lack of representation and benefit from Oregon income tax is one reason I insist on remote work rather than in a Portland office. The antipathy cuts both ways.

I believe the only additional tax exemption for out-of-state workers is for days not worked in Oregon, which is essentially no exemption at all.

**I tried to find what this means in actual tax dollars but couldn't find the numbers. Commuters from Washington have a higher than average income though.

Yeah, I'm sure you don't see any benefit from the bridges, or the infrastructure that allows you to shop down there, or do any of the things associated with a big city, right? And I'm sure your working remotely has nothing to do with dodging the associated taxes, putting more money in your pocket, right? No, no, it's not the money; it's the principle. :rolleyes:

And since Vancouverites like to make the argument "it's not fair that we pay Oregon taxes but get no say in where the money goes," conversely doesn't that mean it's not fair that they don't pay Washington taxes and do get say in where that money goes? So, shouldn't we be disenfranchising them, you know, out of "fairness?"

size1one posted:

My point was that you can't put the lack of affect out-of-state consumers on Oregon's economy on the out-of-state consumer when it's Oregon tax law that determines it. It's a little mind boggling to hear complaints about out-of-state consumers feeding money into the local economy. I mean, I would love it for Portland consumers to flock into downtown Vancouver and revitalize it.

I think you mean "vitalize."

# ? Aug 14, 2014 15:38

got any sevens: Feb 9, 2013; by Cyrano4747

If Vancouverites pay higher than average taxes, why not move to Oregon?

# ? Aug 14, 2014 15:42

kensei: Dec 27, 2007; He has come home, where he belongs. The Ancient Mariner returns to lead his first team to glory, forever and ever. Amen!

It's been a hot button for this area since I was a kid, the Oregon taxation of Washington residents. I'm totally willing to support taxing WA license plates going South, as long as there is something in place recognizing the people that do pay OR taxes and we get a break of some sorts - since we help pay for the mythical bridge that will probably never get built!

As for why people live over here, it's far less expensive to buy a house and the schools are significantly better.

# ? Aug 14, 2014 15:49

Kaal: May 22, 2002; through thousands of posts in D&D over a decade, I now believe I know what I'm talking about. if I post forcefully and confidently, I can convince others that is true. no one sees through my facade.

size1one posted:

Contrary to popular belief, 60,000+ Vancouverites are Oregon taxpayers

That's great, and sometimes when I go to Washington I don't bother pulling out my ID for every purchase. Just because I'm a "Washington taxpayer" doesn't mean WA is going to give me political representation.

# ? Aug 14, 2014 16:08

Mrit: Sep 26, 2007; by exmarx; Grimey Drawer

kensei posted:

It's been a hot button for this area since I was a kid, the Oregon taxation of Washington residents. I'm totally willing to support taxing WA license plates going South, as long as there is something in place recognizing the people that do pay OR taxes and we get a break of some sorts - since we help pay for the mythical bridge that will probably never get built!

As for why people live over here, it's far less expensive to buy a house and the schools are significantly better.

Yeah, if Oregonians don't want people living in Vancouver and working in Portland, maybe they could try something crazy like building houses in/near Portland?

# ? Aug 14, 2014 16:39

size1one: Jun 24, 2008; I don't want a nation just for me, I want a nation for everyone

/\/\/\/\ School districts are the reason many choose Vancouver. Portland's aren't that great except in a few very expensive places or far out in Hillsboro.

Thanatosian posted:

Yeah, I'm sure you don't see any benefit from the bridges, or the infrastructure that allows you to shop down there, or do any of the things associated with a big city, right? And I'm sure your working remotely has nothing to do with dodging the associated taxes, putting more money in your pocket, right? No, no, it's not the money; it's the principle.

And since Vancouverites like to make the argument "it's not fair that we pay Oregon taxes but get no say in where the money goes," conversely doesn't that mean it's not fair that they don't pay Washington taxes and do get say in where that money goes? So, shouldn't we be disenfranchising them, you know, out of "fairness?"

I think you mean "vitalize."

We don't benefit to the extent that an Oregon resident does. When we spend time in Oregon we're spending our money there.

It does actually has more to do with principal. I don't have a problem with paying taxes if I benefit enough from it, or even taxes that benefit others when they aren't so full of contempt. Thank you for telling me what I really care about though, it really really makes me want to help fund your schools and such. :rolleyes: