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I think something like The Walking Dead doesn't really count. Sure, you aren't playing that for the gameplay, but it isn't a case of the story keeping bad gameplay afloat - the gameplay, what little there is, exists to support the story. That was the design from the outset.
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Aug 14, 2014 18:57
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The Void and Pandemic, which don't so much have weak gameplay as purposefully un-fun gameplay.
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Aug 14, 2014 19:18
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Mr. Maltose posted:The Void and Pandemic, which don't so much have weak gameplay as purposefully un-fun gameplay. Pathologic. I'd say Amnesia: Machine for Pigs. Again, not an RPG, but it seems that despite being a story-heavy genre, their stories are rarely as good as the mechanics present.
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Aug 14, 2014 19:31
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Rascyc posted:Anyway my question is: how many games can you think of the later category? Persona 4.
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Aug 14, 2014 19:33
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alcharagia posted:Persona 4. Ooh, how did I forget about that? Yeah, Person 4 has gameplay that's essentially identical to its predecessor, with copy-paste dungeons that change nothing but the enemies and backgrounds, and combat which doesn't really change much as you progress through the game. But the plot is solid (well, as long as you aren't one of those 'ugh too anime' types), with good characters and a mystery to solve. It's the last part of the game, when the story is all wrapped up and there's one final dungeon to do, where things feeling lag.
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Aug 14, 2014 19:39
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Rascyc posted:Anyway my question is: how many games can you think of the later category?
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Aug 14, 2014 19:40
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Morpheus posted:Pathologic. Don't post distracted, folks!
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Aug 14, 2014 19:41
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The original Drakengard.
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Aug 14, 2014 19:45
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alcharagia posted:The original Drakengard.
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Aug 14, 2014 20:44
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Rascyc posted:Someone recently brought up a topic in a random thread of gameplay keeping crappy stories afloat being much more common than good stories keeping weak gameplay afloat. I also believed the former is much more true than the later, but I can't see how anyone can disagree with this. Planescape: Torment. It's not unplayably bad by any means but it probably has the worst and most annoying gameplay of any Infinity Engine game. It's telling when you'd rather be poring through dialogue trees than killing mans.
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Aug 14, 2014 21:22
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I hate combat in Fallout. It's slow, clunky, and too simplistic. Any game where a 30 second battle devolves into 5-10 minutes because you have to wait for everything to go (Septerra Core, I'm looking at you) is not a well designed game. Brotherhood of Steel sped things up and gave it more variety but that was a strategy/action game than a traditional RPG.Snackula posted:This is obviously highly subjective and probably won't go over too well in the RPG thread but I usually only play JRPGs in spite of their godawful battle systems. That doesn't mean I play them entirely for the plot, it's more like I enjoy running around in a world of softserve anime tropes listening to some chill tunes after work (the plot is usually stupid too). Like they basically fill a soap opera type niche for me I guess. Nah, I'm in the same camp. I'll play a generic RPG because sometimes I just like having noise or maybe I find genre cliches endearing at times. Morpheus posted:Ooh, how did I forget about that? Yeah, Person 4 has gameplay that's essentially identical to its predecessor, with copy-paste dungeons that change nothing but the enemies and backgrounds, and combat which doesn't really change much as you progress through the game. But the plot is solid (well, as long as you aren't one of those 'ugh too anime' types), with good characters and a mystery to solve. It's the last part of the game, when the story is all wrapped up and there's one final dungeon to do, where things feeling lag. Compared to the rest of the Persona series, Persona 4 is heads and tails better in the gameplay department. al-azad fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 21:23
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al-azad posted:Compared to the rest of the Persona series, Persona 4 is heads and tails better in the gameplay department. this really isn't saying much
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Aug 14, 2014 21:24
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The first Persona was the first RPG that was so hard and tedious it made me literally angry. Like Ninja Gaiden bird out of nowhere angry. But it had something that compelled me to come back to it after about a month and it became something I really enjoyed, especially since I learned to abuse the gently caress out of the experience system to level my protagonist, which was good for all the parts when you have a party of just you and one other person. On the other hand, Persona 2's gameplay bored me so badly I couldn't finish it.
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Aug 14, 2014 21:37
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Rascyc posted:Someone recently brought up a topic in a random thread of gameplay keeping crappy stories afloat being much more common than good stories keeping weak gameplay afloat. I also believed the former is much more true than the later, but I can't see how anyone can disagree with this. Lots. I thought Lunar had especially terrible awful battles but I don't regret playing through it and I've actually been thinking about replaying it. Even with the best Final Fantasy battle systems, don't you find they get really repetitive and unfun after a few hours? In FFX, you face the same monster types over and over and have to use the same strategies against them, how can that possibly still be fun? It's not to me but it's still my favorite FF. Xenogears is one of my favorite games but the battles were very repetitive. I never looked forward to battles. The best part of the game to me by far is the 2nd disc without all the boring dungeons. I'm playing Xenoblade right now and I'm really not digging the gameplay. For starters, the voices during the battle are incredibly annoying. The AI is terrible. I have to take over the role of the healer during boss fights because the healer doesn't seem to know how to consistently heal people. Every battle in the game seems to be just two battle scenarios. Either I get in a battle and get immediately slaughtered, or else they're too easy and don't require any thought, so I'm just going through the motions and it's a chore to get through to explore the world. That said, I am still enjoying XenoBlade. I love the atmosphere and find the world engrossing. Snackula posted:This is obviously highly subjective and probably won't go over too well in the RPG thread but I usually only play JRPGs in spite of their godawful battle systems. That doesn't mean I play them entirely for the plot, it's more like I enjoy running around in a world of softserve anime tropes listening to some chill tunes after work (the plot is usually stupid too). Like they basically fill a soap opera type niche for me I guess. Same here. The only battle system I think I could tolerate if the rest of the game was uninteresting would be Chrono Trigger. Combining techs was fun. some bust on that guy fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Aug 14, 2014 |
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Aug 14, 2014 22:02
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I think I was participating in the conversation you mentioned. My general feeling is that a good story can keep average or unexceptional gameplay afloat but almost nothing can keep genuinely bad gameplay afloat. The closest I can think of are games which are kind of objectively bad but in a fun way. Like, Final Fantasy 6's mechanics on paper are a total mess. Some characters are badly designed, basic mechanics don't work in certain versions of the game, it's glitchy as gently caress, insanely easy, and has a whole host of problems. Despite that it's broken and badly designed in a way that is just interesting enough for the fun worldsetting and characters to carry it through. But poo poo which is just tedious or unenjoyable? Yeah, no amount of likable plot can save that.
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Aug 14, 2014 22:08
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Friendly Factory fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Aug 14, 2014 22:50
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Super Ninja Fish posted:
Try ditching your healer, especially if it's Sharla. You don't need to follow a tank/dps/healer paradigm in that game at all. It will probably be more fun since you'll plow through easy battles faster, and the difficult battles will be more interesting as you learn to avoid damage through toppling and chain attacks and such.
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Aug 15, 2014 00:03
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Super Ninja Fish posted:I'm playing Xenoblade right now and I'm really not digging the gameplay. For starters, the voices during the battle are incredibly annoying. The AI is terrible. I have to take over the role of the healer during boss fights because the healer doesn't seem to know how to consistently heal people. Every battle in the game seems to be just two battle scenarios. Either I get in a battle and get immediately slaughtered, or else they're too easy and don't require any thought, so I'm just going through the motions and it's a chore to get through to explore the world. That said, I am still enjoying XenoBlade. I love the atmosphere and find the world engrossing. As said, ditching Sharla if you use it is a good move. She's honestly the dullest character in the game. The combat system really won't get better. The gameplay made me drop Xenoblade about 10-12 hours in and I have no desire to pick it up again.
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Aug 15, 2014 00:05
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ImpAtom posted:I think I was participating in the conversation you mentioned. My general feeling is that a good story can keep average or unexceptional gameplay afloat but almost nothing can keep genuinely bad gameplay afloat.
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Aug 15, 2014 00:59
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J posted:Try ditching your healer, especially if it's Sharla. You don't need to follow a tank/dps/healer paradigm in that game at all. It will probably be more fun since you'll plow through easy battles faster, and the difficult battles will be more interesting as you learn to avoid damage through toppling and chain attacks and such. I usually don't use Sharla except for the bosses. For them light heal isn't enough a lot of the time. I'll come real close to beating them and die, then I'll load my save back, put in Sharla, and just do nothing but heal with her until the battle is over. Fun. How is Melia? I've barely used her because she has such low HP.
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Aug 15, 2014 03:12
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Super Ninja Fish posted:I usually don't use Sharla except for the bosses. For them light heal isn't enough a lot of the time. I'll come real close to beating them and die, then I'll load my save back, put in Sharla, and just do nothing but heal with her until the battle is over. Fun. When you're not using Sharla, most of your healing should come from chain attacks. Link the skill that heals the party after a chain attack to each party member, then focus on building the party gauge as fast as you can to launch chain attack after chain attack. Light Heal should never be your primary method of healing, but rather something to supplement the healing you get from chain attacks. If you get it down, you'll find that there aren't any storyline bosses that you actually need Sharla's healing for, and maybe only one or two side bosses that you'll need her for. Melia's pretty average unless you control her, in which case she becomes an awesome glass cannon character. Her lightning spell is devastating, and Starlight Kick can topple enemies instantly. She's pretty good. There's no penalty at all for falling in battle, so try out some new combinations.
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Aug 15, 2014 03:29
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I'm playing Xenoblade for the first time too, and I'm really loving it a lot. It's like Final Fantasy XII with more respect for the player's time.
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Aug 15, 2014 03:39
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Wendell posted:I'm playing Xenoblade for the first time too, and I'm really loving it a lot. It's like Final Fantasy XII with more respect for the player's time. I misread this as Xenogears. No, the game only gets better over time. RadicalR fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Aug 15, 2014 |
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Aug 15, 2014 04:32
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Wendell posted:I'm playing Xenoblade for the first time too, and I'm really loving it a lot. It's like Final Fantasy XII with more respect for the player's time. Oh you poor sweet innocent soul  . Xenoblade has a 75-hour playtime. Minimum.
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Aug 15, 2014 04:35
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Wendell posted:I'm playing Xenoblade for the first time too, and I'm really loving it a lot. It's like Final Fantasy XII with more respect for the player's time. I dunno, the enemies being buckets of HP that do piddly damage didn't strike me as having respect for yout time, but I'm one of the few (apparently) who couldn't get into Xenoblade.
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Aug 15, 2014 04:35
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Oh you poor sweet innocent soul Hmm...so if I'm gonna drop $50 at Gamestop for a Wii game, between Metroid Prime Trilogy and Xenoblade, would I be better of skipping Xenoblade, despite the huge hype?
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Aug 15, 2014 05:31
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Hmm...so if I'm gonna drop $50 at Gamestop for a Wii game, between Metroid Prime Trilogy and Xenoblade, would I be better of skipping Xenoblade, despite the huge hype? If you can get the Trilogy for less than 100 bucks I'd get that.
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Aug 15, 2014 05:38
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If you can get Xenoblade for fifty fuckin' clams, holy poo poo, buy it. Gamestop actually price gouged it by selling their new copies used at like one and a half times the list price because they knew they had an exclusive distribution contract and that it was a cult title with a limited printing. Cocks.
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Aug 15, 2014 05:40
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I had an absolute blast with Xenoblade the entire 120 hours I played it. If the combat sits well with you it's an amazing game.
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Aug 15, 2014 05:41
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Xenoblade is decent? I would have been onboard with the idea of having a bunch of pretty wide open areas to explore combined with some single player mmo combat, but then the game started bringing in a bunch of stupid things that shouldn't be in a single player game, like boring mmo quests (yes you can autocomplete them but they are still boring) and those drat agility penalties based on level differences. Also later in the game the areas stayed huge but got linear, which was tedious. I enjoyed playing it overall I guess, but I can't see myself playing it again.
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Aug 15, 2014 05:46
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The White Dragon posted:If you can get Xenoblade for fifty fuckin' clams, holy poo poo, buy it. Gamestop actually price gouged it by selling their new copies used at like one and a half times the list price because they knew they had an exclusive distribution contract and that it was a cult title with a limited printing. Cocks. Apparently they reprinted Xenoblade and Metro Prime Trilogy because people noted that new copies are in the cheapo recyclable cases that became the standard in the past 2-3 years. Both games are relatively common now but you're still going to pay $40+ for each.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:10
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"I can't see myself playing through a 120 hour RPG again." The ultimate insult.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:15
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Wendell posted:"I can't see myself playing through a 120 hour RPG again." The ultimate insult. You underestimate just how little I have going on in my life.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:21
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al-azad posted:Apparently they reprinted Xenoblade and Metro Prime Trilogy because people noted that new copies are in the cheapo recyclable cases that became the standard in the past 2-3 years. Both games are relatively common now but you're still going to pay $40+ for each. Well in that case get both eventually, they're both great.
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Aug 15, 2014 06:23
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Any good suggestions on RPGs that would appeal to fans of the Shadow Hearts series?
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Aug 15, 2014 07:46
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oriongates posted:Any good suggestions on RPGs that would appeal to fans of the Shadow Hearts series? Lost Odyssey has a lot of shared DNA with Shadow Hearts, you could check that out.
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Aug 15, 2014 08:15
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Something worth noting about Xenoblade, that I really loved, is the game doesn't drag you ever onwards to the next plot point the whole way through. Every now and then there's a big "let's take a break here for the night (Psst, hey, Player, if you want to backtrack/wander around and do some sidequests, here's a good time to do so  )" moment to break up the pace.
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Aug 15, 2014 08:35
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Baltazar Robotnik posted:Lost Odyssey has a lot of shared DNA with Shadow Hearts, you could check that out. Yeah, a bunch of people wound up at Mistwalker, there's a sooomewhat similar battle ring mechanic and a lot of NPCs have naming conventions like SH did.
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Aug 15, 2014 09:43
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Just checked it out, it sounds interesting but an Xbox exclusive, drat.
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Aug 15, 2014 11:08
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I booted up Star Ocean 4 for a bit and had blast. I've always really liked how those games played, why do the characters have to be so drat terrible?
Factory Davey fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Aug 17, 2014 |
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Aug 17, 2014 23:43
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