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Squeegy posted:Now, now. We can all be the worst poster. gently caress you I'm gonna' win that prize!
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Aug 16, 2014 11:08
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Ernie Muppari posted:gently caress you I'm gonna' win that prize! Jump off a cliff, the Prize is MINE. Squeegy posted:Now, now. We can all be the worst poster. Good thing this is already the case. 
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Aug 16, 2014 11:32
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Supernorn posted:There's literally no way to win. Welcome to game development! Seriously, there's always a screamy part of the community for things that I'm seriously sorry about existing that feel entitled to knowing where every cent that's given to you is going. And it seems that block-building games like Minecraft and Terraria attract the worst kinds of people. Now, if you'll excuse me. Rrussom posted:No, I'm fairly sure that IM the worst poster. Squeegy posted:Now, now. We can all be the worst poster. Ernie Muppari posted:gently caress you I'm gonna' win that prize! I'M KING OF THE SHITPILE!
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Aug 16, 2014 11:50
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RareAcumen posted:I'M KING OF THE SHITPILE! *Grabs you by the throat* I SAID BACK THE gently caress OFF!?!?
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Aug 16, 2014 12:28
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Rrussom posted:*Grabs you by the throat* I SAID BACK THE gently caress OFF!?!? *vomits a throne*  YOU WIN
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Aug 16, 2014 12:32
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whoa, thought i was in the bad webcomics thread for a moment
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Aug 16, 2014 12:47
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Dandywalken posted:Caveman tier would own if you were a legit loving caveman during it. It'd be cool if you went full on Castaway. But this being a building game it'd be more like Gilligan's Island. I think I've figured out what the main problem for me with the nightly version of caveman tier is, finally. It's not so much getting stuck on one planet that bothers me, it's that terrain generation is a bit dodgy atm. For one it's a bit of a crapshoot, with wood maybe not spawning and some ore being scarcer and another problem is the surface caves broke or something and don't spawn. Which deprives you of plant materials and easy spelunking. I think with a few dungeons and special stuff for starter planets would make the start a lot more interesting. Oh and have the bloody ufo drop some core fragments or something. The biggest issue though is multiplayer. If everyone has to do all this alone on separate planets it will seriously suck.
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Aug 16, 2014 12:57
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Shoehead posted:It'd be cool if you went full on Castaway. But this being a building game it'd be more like Gilligan's Island. I'm incredibly, incredibly against the caveman tier as well as being against having to tool around on some lovely lame planet looking for fuel so I can explore in a game that's apparently meant to be about exploration. If they must have a caveman tier, it should essentially be a tutorial that teaches the player the basics of resource gathering, crafting and combat. It should also be skippable. In Terraria you can actually start pretty quickly. Find a good cave and you can find plenty of ore and items to start you off, and if you find some higher tier ore you can just mine it and make a new pick from it. The limitations on what you can tackle is limited by your equipment, but it's not a hard limitation. If you get the gunsmith, you can get a gun and tackle the first two bosses pretty easily and progress straight to demonite tier. Starbound just kinda slows the whole thing down a lot by forcing you spend a bunch of resources that you may or may not be able to get on your planet. Want to try another one to see if it has better stuff? Hope you found some fuel on your planet. You know what would be a good idea? Finding fuel lets you make lots of hops quickly, but your ship recharges energy over time anyway. Maybe you could build solar collectors on a planet to produce electricity to power it faster too.
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Aug 16, 2014 13:44
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Slime posted:I'm incredibly, incredibly against the caveman tier as well as being against having to tool around on some lovely lame planet looking for fuel so I can explore in a game that's apparently meant to be about exploration. If they must have a caveman tier, it should essentially be a tutorial that teaches the player the basics of resource gathering, crafting and combat. It should also be skippable. Isn't "tooling around on some lovely lame planet" exactly what exploring is? What would you do with immediate access to your ship drives other than tool around on a different lovely lame planet? The problem is, at least at present, that stage is far too long. Get to your planet, get familiarised with the mechanics, start up your engines. That's really all it needs to be. No need to spend hours spelunking to grind out materials to fix your engines.
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Aug 16, 2014 14:46
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Tenebrais posted:Isn't "tooling around on some lovely lame planet" exactly what exploring is? What would you do with immediate access to your ship drives other than tool around on a different lovely lame planet? There is a diffrence between tooling around on a planet and tooling around on a planet, seeing cool stuff but being unable to even mine it or save for later, which is exactly what the caveman tier is now. And that's the problem, and that's why it's so long.
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Aug 16, 2014 14:48
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Hearing that the MM is upgradeable in the nightly is making me chub up. Also, Chucklefish PR should provide a service that gets supporters/customers free access to hookers in their area until the game is released. It's the least they can do after I spend my fifteen bucks on the game. I think I remember seeing/reading that there was going to be a planet scanner or something that will tell you if there's Glitch castle or a Floran community or something like that or Avian Underground Ruins? Can somebody confirm this or tell me that I'm crazy and making stuff up? I could always just dig around a planet, but knowing that there's one of those little rooms down there... somewhere... would strongly motivate me to dig down.
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Aug 16, 2014 15:02
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Part of the reason tiered mining "worked" in Minecraft was that the number of tiers was relatively small; once you get iron, you can do whatever except mine obsidian. In Terraria, it "worked" because despite more tiers you had your persistent world, the jump from tier to tier was significant (until hard mode), and you just couldn't mine things too high tier so you didn't accidentally end up deleting valuable minerals because you didn't realize that your tool isn't strong enough or whatever. In Starbound, presently the tiers are really small and really numerous, so each upgrade only gets you a little and you have to keep doing it, and while it's not a problem before you fix your ship afterwards, finding a mineral you can't yet mine is less "oh neat, I'll come back later" and more "oh well, too bad" because after you do whatever it is you want to do on that planet you probably aren't coming back. I think a thing they could do, really, is combine and streamline some of the tiers here, at least for mining. Even if they want ten tiers for most things, in other areas it's a matter of upgrades for combat and looking pretty and stuff, while here it strictly limits what you can and can't do. Like, start with the stone pickaxe, that gets you the ability to mine copper and iron and similar stuff. Then you upgrade that to iron, not copper, and now you can mine all the "real" materials like gold and silver and maybe one or two "weird" things. Then, skip silver and gold pickaxes entirely, make some futuristic mining device or drill or whatever. Again, two or three tiers of minerals can be mined with this. Maybe one or two more levels beyond that item, at most. Whether or not the Matter Manipulator can be significantly upgraded as this goes on (perhaps lagging a little behind so you need your fancy tool for the new stuff still), this would make mining a lot less frustrating, make progress feel more satisfying while still keeping the ten tiers elsewhere (you still need to upgrade from tier to tier there, you're just not ignoring half the materials you encounter while you do it), and as a bonus squelches those complaints about gold pickaxes and whatnot people always make. You can even require gold and diamonds in the fancy mining tools, and there it makes sense because of wiring and laser-focuses or diamond drills or whatever. Also gets you out of using pickaxes fast, which both feels more satisfying and squashes another common complaint people keep having. TL;DR: Consolidate the mining tiers so each upgrade jumps two or three levels instead of just one. As for the weapon degradation thing, I didn't think of examples like FE admittedly; I was thinking of games like this, or Silent Hill: Origins where you end up with pockets full of televisions and stuff. In these sorts of games, it's either basically a tax (use up some of the iron you're mining to make a new iron pick in Minecraft), or really frustrating (still haven't found any diamonds and my diamond pick in Minecraft is almost broken). It's not even really necessary; since Terraria keeps coming up, it didn't use it, and I didn't miss its exclusion there. It's just a way to make you have less stuff, either on a minor but annoying level or on a major level depending on what you need to repair and how you need to do it. Also, whoever mentioned DS2, its weapon degradation is basically a tax on both your resources and your time; you happen to let a weapon break, it doesn't automatically repair at a bonfire, you need to go to the blacksmith. You can just teleport there, though, so it basically means you lose some souls and spend a couple minutes not doing what you wanted to be doing before going back to wherever you were before. It doesn't really add anything to the game, and was a rather annoying surprise the first time a weapon of mine broke and I learned that the bonfire didn't fix it. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 15:03
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Weapon degradation in the Souls series is actually a good application of the mechanic because it makes specific enemies more threatening and provides a possible PvP counter (in the form of acid spells) to players using powerful but brittle weapons. Also you can just carry the repair powder item with you to repair things on the fly. It's not a huge deal. The thing about durability in Starbound is that it's similarly not a huge deal, but you get absolutely nothing from it in exchange. It's just there, eating ore occasionally.
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Aug 16, 2014 15:25
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Roland Jones posted:a bunch of legitimate suggestions These are good ideas and seem like a reasonable balance of enforcing a bit of progression while still allowing freedom and rewarding exploration. The early game shouldn't be entirely skippable, but it also shouldn't be an artificial gateway keeping you away from the real meat of the gameplay.
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Aug 16, 2014 15:37
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I accept and expect putting some good time into getting a character up and running, doing a good job clearing out the first planet, but it gets gross if always-dropped ores and bars is combined with the grind it is to even get to the copper pick, and then the extra resources needed to start leaving the planet. If it felt like far less of a struggling grind and horrible hunt to get the materials needed from a the planet ones character begins on, this would all (but the always-drop-stuff thing) feel a lot better and more suitable. If a planet gets flagged as "this chap starts here", can it be modified on creation to get a vastly increased amount of ore?
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Aug 16, 2014 16:24
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Oh, one other things: Humans and Novakids, possibly some other species too, have customization options you can't actually see at character creation because they're under their clothes. An option to hide those so you can see what you're picking there, or at least a way to change it (and other things) post-creation would be nice.
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Aug 16, 2014 16:34
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Evil Fluffy posted:Degradation was a good thing in the Final Fantasy Legend games. Especially FFL1 because a bug let you consume a Punch attack and as long as you kept using the next Punch in your inventory they'd all hit at maximum damage (which is really loving huge in FFL 1&2 because less uses left = more damage from martial arts attacks). http://lparchive.org/Final-Fantasy-Legend-(by-Chokes-McGee)/ Jackard fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 16:46
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Regarding pick durability: the way it was originally pitched, you only had to repair your picks while you were deep underground. Teleporting back to your ship would allow you to instantly repair your picks for free, though that may or may not have required a certain Ship AI feature to be unlocked. It was explained that ore repairs on picks would only be necessary in situations where you needed to go deeper and couldn't make it back to your ship, in which case you'd be swimming in cheap ores anyway.
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Aug 16, 2014 16:55
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Supernorn posted:There's literally no way to win. I'd say 'not playing is the only way to win' but that just isn't true at all
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Aug 16, 2014 19:00
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Squeegy posted:Starbound would probably have had a lot better PR if they had a much less close relationship with their fans and customers. Robin talks about the concept here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwv1G3WFSfI&t=2031s.
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Aug 16, 2014 19:18
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Vib Rib posted:Regarding pick durability: the way it was originally pitched, you only had to repair your picks while you were deep underground. Teleporting back to your ship would allow you to instantly repair your picks for free, though that may or may not have required a certain Ship AI feature to be unlocked. It was explained that ore repairs on picks would only be necessary in situations where you needed to go deeper and couldn't make it back to your ship, in which case you'd be swimming in cheap ores anyway. In which case, why bother having the mechanic at all? A mechanic should serve a purpose, but the durability only manages to screw you over once in a rare while (like dying and you dropped all your ores while you have low durability). Otherwise, it has such a small effect that it works out to "and now I have to take five seconds to repair it." At most, it decreases your ore mining by less than 5% - big deal, who cares? It feels like the only reason it's there is because it is something that could be there.
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Aug 16, 2014 19:29
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I'm not disagreeing -- the lack of tool/armor durability in Terraria makes me love their system VS Minecraft. I'd rather pay a much bigger investment cost, but never pay upkeep, than to constantly get my armor/weapons breaking. Though it was so much worse when damaged armor in MC protected you less. What a nightmare. I don't think pick durability in Starbound makes sense or enhances the game.
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Aug 16, 2014 19:58
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I think the recent Fallouts are the only games I've ever played that have actually been enhanced to any degree by a durability system.
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Aug 16, 2014 20:05
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GreenMarine posted:Robin talks about the concept here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwv1G3WFSfI&t=2031s. This is so awesome. This is why that as a developer I'm so standoffish about this push for so-called transparent development and "getting the fans involved". It ties people's hands and transfers control of where the development storyline goes to the masses and they don't necessarily understand game development and they surely aren't privy to the bigger picture of YOUR game's development. This sucks, because I love engaging, but it's really a very slippery slope.
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Aug 16, 2014 20:07
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Supernorn posted:People keep saying this but I still don't get where they are coming from. If we had 'the worst PR' the game wouldn't even be half as successful as it is. Just ignore the idiots. And we all know good PR is when you have an exact script handed down from the executives and head of media, allowing only certain answers to certain questions with vague hand-waiving for anything else and dictated to gaming news sites with minimal player interaction. Like some AAA studios do. Clearly direct engagement by indie devs is bad form.  RareAcumen posted:Look, your PR is worse than anything Phil Fish has ever said and you're just gonna have to live with it, I'm sorry but that's life. There's only one proper reply to this. Look in to a mirror and repeat after me: Derek Smart Derek Smart Derek Smart. Supernorn posted:Some people would prefer we hide behind a PR spokesman and filter everything we say and think, rather than engage with our community as human beings. I don't agree with that at all, and I think those same people would complain about us not 'engaging' with the community enough. There's literally no way to win. This is why you ignore them (almost*) entirely and only engage with the non-toxic parts of a gaming community rather than wading in to the sea of poo poo, which is not filled with adorable poo monsters. *sometimes people yell loudly because they care about the product and are passionate about a perceived issue being addressed. The mining tiers and MM suggestions recently in this thread being an example of this (while the poo-monsters-in-sewers complaints were just dumb). Jackard posted:From what I remember of that recent Let's Play (havent played the game in ages) their durability system was similar to the weapons in Fire Emblem. It is the same. FFL just has a few issues and exceptions. The most prominent being that you can get insanely overpowered martial art damage in FFL 1, while FFL2 had the Excalibur which had infinite durability and was insanely powerful because it not one hit harder than most weapon but hit entire groups.
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Aug 16, 2014 20:11
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Hmm. Perhaps there is some sort of happy medium between industrial PR machines and sloppy, inexperienced community involvement that ignores anything that deviates from the grand vision and summarily degenerates into a majority of the staff crying on social media while trying to heavily moderate as much discussion as possible.
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Aug 16, 2014 20:29
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Evil Fluffy posted:There's only one proper reply to this. Look in to a mirror and repeat after me: RareAcumen posted:Please, for the love of god stop taking that seriously. I also don't really know what Derek Smart did so that advice is pretty lost on me???
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Aug 16, 2014 20:39
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Vib Rib posted:Regarding pick durability: the way it was originally pitched, you only had to repair your picks while you were deep underground. Teleporting back to your ship would allow you to instantly repair your picks for free, though that may or may not have required a certain Ship AI feature to be unlocked. It was explained that ore repairs on picks would only be necessary in situations where you needed to go deeper and couldn't make it back to your ship, in which case you'd be swimming in cheap ores anyway. That quit mattering pretty quickly in the game as it stands, anyway. I had way more copper than I'd ever use after digging for long. It was stupid easy to get a stack of 500 copper to carry around and repair your tools like whenever.
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Aug 16, 2014 20:42
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Devour or Fire posted:Hmm. Perhaps there is some sort of happy medium between industrial PR machines and sloppy, inexperienced community involvement that ignores anything that deviates from the grand vision and summarily degenerates into a majority of the staff crying on social media while trying to heavily moderate as much discussion as possible.
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Aug 16, 2014 20:44
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Devour or Fire posted:Hmm. Perhaps there is some sort of happy medium between industrial PR machines and sloppy, inexperienced community involvement that ignores anything that deviates from the grand vision and summarily degenerates into a majority of the staff crying on social media while trying to heavily moderate as much discussion as possible. I think Maxmaps style of community involvement for KPS is pretty much perfect TBH. He tells people what they need to know, has some fun banter too and has an infectious love for the game he's a part of.
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Aug 16, 2014 21:03
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Devour or Fire posted:Hmm. Perhaps there is some sort of happy medium between industrial PR machines and sloppy, inexperienced community involvement that ignores anything that deviates from the grand vision and summarily degenerates into a majority of the staff crying on social media while trying to heavily moderate as much discussion as possible. Oh look it's the guy who is displeased about every aspect of this game - but can't stop talking about it. I admire your enthusiasm 
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Aug 16, 2014 23:29
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RareAcumen posted:I also don't really know what Derek Smart did so that advice is pretty lost on me??? Oh man he has to have an Encyclopedia Dramatica page he is like one of the very first developers to get sucked in by trolls and embarrass the poo poo out of himself over his lovely games. He was trying to make Star Citizen almost 15 years ago and what he ended up with will probably still be better than Star Citizen itself will ever be. https://encyclopediadramatica.es/Derek_Smart
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Aug 16, 2014 23:35
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If you think Starbound's PR is bad, go check Terraria's a couple years back before they fired the main PR guy.
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Aug 16, 2014 23:36
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I Said No posted:If you think Starbound's PR is bad, go check Terraria's a couple years back before they fired the main PR guy. Try Cubeworld.
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Aug 17, 2014 00:47
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Supernorn posted:Oh look it's the guy who is displeased about every aspect of this game - but can't stop talking about it. I admire your enthusiasm Have to get your money's worth somehow.
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Aug 17, 2014 01:02
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Ernie Muppari posted:gently caress you I'm gonna' win that prize! Hey guys, what's up?
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Aug 17, 2014 01:26
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ColHannibal posted:Try Cubeworld. You monster.
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Aug 17, 2014 02:01
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I Said No posted:If you think Starbound's PR is bad, go check Terraria's a couple years back before they fired the main PR guy. I dunno, their PR circa their patch that basically gutted every good end-game combat option was pretty stupid too.
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Aug 17, 2014 02:28
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ColHannibal posted:Try Cubeworld. Theirs is pretty much perfect though isn't it? Large stretches of media blackout followed by, "Ok, here's a tweet" 
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Aug 17, 2014 02:35
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Just wanted to post in here with my old custom avatar, because at more time passes, it just gets funnier and funnier.
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Aug 17, 2014 02:45
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