|
HappyHelmet posted:It was preferable to the neutered all to hell version of mounted soldiers we have now anyway. Knights and chariots (which aren’t technically mounted, I know) are still really good in multiplayer. Not “take a city with three horsemen” good, but that’s a positive development.
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 17:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 11:06 |
|
|
Platystemon posted:Knights and chariots (which aren’t technically mounted, I know) are still really good in multiplayer. Not “take a city with three horsemen” good, but that’s a positive development. Yes, well we'll see how good your precious chariots are against my elite Polish scouts soon enough 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 18:04
|
|
|
Ugh, any advice on what to prioritize in the early game? I'm playing Harald and Bismark has a city right next to me that I need, but I'm having trouble juggling making a good army with keeping up with technology and making culture buildings. (I'm also having trouble with happiness, but it seems like that's a common issue.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 18:58
|
|
|
Vertigo Ambrosia posted:Ugh, any advice on what to prioritize in the early game? I'm playing Harald and Bismark has a city right next to me that I need, but I'm having trouble juggling making a good army with keeping up with technology and making culture buildings. (I'm also having trouble with happiness, but it seems like that's a common issue.) It's gonna vary, but usually your priority techs are Construction for Composite Bowmen (elite warriors of the early eras) and Philosophy for the National College. You shouldn't worry about culture right now; Tradition gives you free ones (you went Tradition, right?) and you don't need the upkeep burden anyway. Happiness: contact other civs, see if they have luxury goods for trade. Failing that, build Colosseums.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 19:26
|
|
|
Sanctum posted:I started a game with none of the expansions to see what Civ5 was like vanilla and what is this garbage? Also why do my crossbowmen die to like a single knight? It's actually kind of fun in a perverse way because of how utterly broken it is. Horse units completely wrecking everything, every other unit dying in two hits to everything else along with all the randomness it entails (you can actually straight up die to a half-health unit of the same strength at full health if you get two bad rolls on your turn and the other's, and that's not even taking into account the full health promotion), diplomacy is even more of a crapshoot than it is now, all the flat gold sale shenanigans. Being able to research Civil Service five techs into the game on a straight beeline (you can even use TGL on it because even on higher difficulties the AI kind of leaves it alone for whatever reason) etc. etc. It's also kind of jarring trying to wonder whore and realizing that half the wonders don't do what you think they do.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 19:30
|
|
|
It was even worse on release. I think that civil service shortcut is something, on 1.0 you could get to the renaissance by something like turn 60 as Babylon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 19:41
|
|
|
Super Jay Mann posted:It's also kind of jarring trying to wonder whore and realizing that half the wonders don't do what you think they do. 10 Food Hanging Gardens was the most amazing thing. TooMuchAbstraction posted:(you went Tradition, right?) I don't understand how people can not go tradition; buying Great Engineers is too amazing. On my current game I have 2 12-hammer Manufactories, 3 10-hammer ones and a 9-hammer one. I'm one tech into the Industrial Era. I built Big Ben in 16 turns. On Marathon.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 19:46
|
|
|
MarquiseMindfang posted:I don't understand how people can not go tradition; buying Great Engineers is too amazing. On my current game I have 2 12-hammer Manufactories, 3 10-hammer ones and a 9-hammer one. I'm one tech into the Industrial Era. I built Big Ben in 16 turns. On Marathon. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 20:21
|
|
|
Yeahhh this is one of the few times I didn't go straight tradition (sometimes I do half of liberty for the free worker or settler; I should really know better) Really it's war that does me in; I never really know when's a good time and I know I'm not being aggressive enough. I just wanted to do a science victory, but it'd be silly to play Harald on a continents map and not attack people  (Also Shaka's around, I hate Wu Zeitan, and apparently Washington is the only one with iron (though so far he's been nice enough to give me some). edit: How the hell can Shaka poo poo out that many cities? Vertigo Ambrosia fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Aug 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 20:25
|
|
|
Vertigo Ambrosia posted:edit: How the hell can Shaka poo poo out that many cities?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 21:00
|
|
|
The best thing about vanilla was being able to roll over people and puppet all their cities which churned out science and gold for you. I can't remember if there was more happiness available or if the penalties were more ignorable but i think it was the latter. e: I think there was no significant penalty until -10 or -11? so you could hover around -10 instead of around 0 and not be losing much. And luxuries were +5 default? Antares fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Aug 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 21:32
|
|
|
Poil posted:You know how many military units he likes to build? Now imagine he spent that time building settlers. And the AI gets a ton of extra happiness bonuses. Yeah, the AI starts with more base happiness than a human player has when playing on Settler difficulty. (15, I believe) It only gets worse from there, since they also get less unhappiness from citizens. That's why Tradition is the best policy tree for human players - it gives more happiness than any other starter policy tree. It's also why AI player empires don't look anything like human player empires - making GBS threads cities out everywhere is actually an optimal strategy for them since they don't get limited anywhere near as much by happiness. You can sort of get the same experience by playing at a really low difficulty setting - it feels dumb to limit yourself to four cities when you're sitting on +30 happiness.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2014 23:42
|
|
|
I think I'm now a convert to "War early, war often" no matter what victory type I'm going for. I tried a Shoshone/emperor game tonight and won by culture, though I could have won by diplomacy earlier. Brazil was in my game and was running away with culture, so I just built a bunch of battleships and took Rio and all 20-something wonders for myself 
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 04:02
|
|
|
Vertigo Ambrosia posted:Yeahhh this is one of the few times I didn't go straight tradition (sometimes I do half of liberty for the free worker or settler; I should really know better) It took me ages to really "get" war in Civ5, BNW. I found it really hard to juggle my infrastructure vs. military production, when I'd have sufficient troops to launch a successfull campaign, and so on. I kept getting sidetracked on building useless crap like castles when on offense, or sending far too few troops to their death in hopeless sieges. What really worked for me was to start playing games as Domination-only, all other victory types disabled. That gave me a real good handle on what it takes, and how early in the game you can pull it off. Now I just terrorize the AI civs in all victory type games, because why not.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 05:38
|
|
|
I've been playing vanilla and now I have 2 questions about BNW. If I raze a city immediately on capture, does it not increase my science/policy costs for the duration of the razing? Secondly uhm, diplomacy weirdness. China agreed to declare war on Korea but asked for 10 turns to prepare. On the next turn Korea declared war on China. I thought that cancelled our deal, so I waited 1 more turn and declared war on Korea myself. A few turns later I had Korea's capital and was razing 2 other cities; I already captured all his wonders so I agreed to peace when Korea offered. I start healing my units and the next AI turn China tells me it's time to start our war on Korea. Do I get a backstab penalty on China for not going to war? Do I get a backstab penalty for declaring war on Korea 1 turn after we negotiated peace? And can I game the system like that in BNW where I negotiate peace the turn before I've agreed to declare war and am thus able to declare war through a peace treaty. I'm glad they changed the golden age mechanic in BNW. I hate how the original civ5 hugely penalizes you for popping any great person until you've captured chitzen itza and filled out the freedom policy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 10:39
|
|
|
Sanctum posted:I've been playing vanilla and now I have 2 questions about BNW. If I raze a city immediately on capture, does it not increase my science/policy costs for the duration of the razing? I think it might actually raise it permanently. Pretty sure it at least used to be based on the highest number of cities you've had at any point. Not 100% on this though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 13:34
|
|
|
Staltran posted:I think it might actually raise it permanently. Pretty sure it at least used to be based on the highest number of cities you've had at any point. Not 100% on this though. Still is, I believe. And the city being razed counts as yours. So if you want to min-max about it, raze their cities one at a time and don't capture their capital until the last one's burned to the ground.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 15:43
|
|
|
Razing a city used to permanently increase policy costs, but that was patched ages ago.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 16:33
|
|
|
Did they double-check to make sure that a razed city doesn't still count against you for the 5% science cost increase? Seems like the type of oversight Firaxis would make.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 17:38
|
|
|
Just finished a pretty fun game as Morocco. Spawned on a continent with Austria, Venice, and Poland. Everyone liked me until ideologies came out. I usually get bored when there is no combat, so eventually I just waited until someone had a beef with someone else and then joined in for laughs. I had 12 gold tiles in my territory. Every civ in the game was throwing money at me for my spare gold. I probably could have min/maxed it better with offering my own deals, but even with what the AI was offering me I ended up with an extra 50-60 gpt total while all the deals were up. Ended up with so much tourism that once ideologies rolled out Poland and Japan instantly went into full revolt. The game probably would have been more fun if Maria decided to pick another ideology and then went to war with me, but she went Freedom and became my best friend when I wasn't stealing artifacts within her borders. The AI doesn't really ever take any steps to slow down your cultural victory either. "Why yes, I would love to have open borders with every civ for the entire game." Still, it was fun having to fight off Ghandi from embargoing my trade partners every Congress. I think now I need a world domination, total genocide game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 17:46
|
|
|
Welp, I just rage quit. First I lost the most useful pantheon bonuses for my start, then I lost all the good follower bonuses and then some jerks sniped the few wonders I tried to get by one turn.  isndl posted:Did they double-check to make sure that a razed city doesn't still count against you for the 5% science cost increase? Seems like the type of oversight Firaxis would make.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 18:00
|
|
|
Poil posted:I believe that if you have four cities and then conquer a fifth the game is going to count it as five regardless if you keep it or raze it. Of course if you burn it and take another city (after it is reduced to rubble) it's still only going to count as five. But I could be wrong. This is how it works.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 18:47
|
|
|
Wish you could keep bombing the poo poo out of a city to make it burn faster
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 20:07
|
|
|
Ice Fist posted:I think now I need a world domination, total genocide game. It's perfectly doable on King and gets really hard on emperor. At the very least don't make the mistake I did: take Tradition, not Honor as your starter tree. Honor simply doesn't provide enough happiness to sustain your genocidal mania, having to maintain control over the capital cities you conquer becomes nearly impossible. You can't burn in the late game, either - you don't have the spare happy, your empire will almost certainly dip into Very Unhappy during the burning process. At most, you can burn one city at a time. Your best option is to sell the cities to neutral powers, and even that only goes so far.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 21:08
|
|
|
You can always try to coerce a ally city state to take the city. Very tricky to do as the AI doesn't like to stray far from the border. Helps if you do the bombing to bring the city down to 0 and hope they swoop in with a melee unit. Unless it's a capital or another city state they'll always raze.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 21:19
|
|
|
DarthBlingBling posted:You can always try to coerce a ally city state to take the city. Very tricky to do as the AI doesn't like to stray far from the border. Helps if you do the bombing to bring the city down to 0 and hope they swoop in with a melee unit. Unless it's a capital or another city state they'll always raze. That's a good idea. The warmonger penalties get so extreme towards the end game that you can't even function. For example, Egypt won't even do an Open Borders agreement. I offered him literally everything I had, to include joining him in his current war, and he still declined. Due to the unfortunate layout of the map, this now leaves my entire navy locked in. I'm going to have to go to war with him to go to war with the person he wants to kill. Eesh. e: just discovered I have a total of like 30 uranium it's on motherfuckers Red Crown fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Aug 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 21:28
|
|
|
I know happiness is supposed to be the constraining factor on spreading an empire, but the last two Emperor games I played had me basically dominating the map and it's only the early mid-game that has issues with happiness it seems. Since the AI seems to love building Wonders, once you capture that capital with a bunch of mid-late game wonders, your happiness just spikes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 22:14
|
|
|
Between being able to pay upkeep on more happiness buildings, being better-able to afford bribing city-states for luxury goods, having access to ideologies, and having more happiness-granting social policies, absolutely happiness in the mid-late game is less of an issue than it is in the early game. Not a total non-issue, but the effect is that the rate at which you can grow your empire is primarily limited by what era you're in and how strong your economy is. Who knows if that's intentional.
|
|
#
?
Aug 18, 2014 22:31
|
|
|
I know the Communitas mods get mentioned every now and then... Has anyone else tried their custom map mod? I've been playing on it a lot this past weekend, and I like it. It's a continents map with some extra bells and whistles: Natural Wonders in sensible spots, rivers flowing through lakes and to the ocean, mountains affect the amount of rainfall a tile gets. It seems like luxuries like to clump together. You'll find nearly half a dozen of one or two luxuries in one general area of a continent, but you'll be hard pressed to find many good spots to expand into later in the game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 02:36
|
|
|
I think I might try a mod that removes the AI happiness bonuses out of morbid curiosity.  It would be nice to say "no, I'm not going to trade you my extra luxury for only 3 GPT because you are upset with me." I hate knowing that not trading an extra luxury to the AI is only hurting myself because the AI gets all the happiness they need. Happiness always seems to be a limiting factor for me. But I like to raze everything I can starting on my 3rd war - as in capturing a 20 pop city solely to raze it and claim one hex with 3 coal for that capital. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 03:00
|
|
|
brozozo posted:I know the Communitas mods get mentioned every now and then... Has anyone else tried their custom map mod? I've been playing on it a lot this past weekend, and I like it. It's a continents map with some extra bells and whistles: Natural Wonders in sensible spots, rivers flowing through lakes and to the ocean, mountains affect the amount of rainfall a tile gets. It seems like luxuries like to clump together. You'll find nearly half a dozen of one or two luxuries in one general area of a continent, but you'll be hard pressed to find many good spots to expand into later in the game. Yeah, it's pretty sweet and you can use it with practically any other mod (or with vanilla if you prefer that).
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 03:32
|
|
|
brozozo posted:I know the Communitas mods get mentioned every now and then... Has anyone else tried their custom map mod? I've been playing on it a lot this past weekend, and I like it. It's a continents map with some extra bells and whistles: Natural Wonders in sensible spots, rivers flowing through lakes and to the ocean, mountains affect the amount of rainfall a tile gets. It seems like luxuries like to clump together. You'll find nearly half a dozen of one or two luxuries in one general area of a continent, but you'll be hard pressed to find many good spots to expand into later in the game. I like their map generation except that they force the world to be split with a thin strand of ocean. There's always an "S" shape vertically of ocean tiles. It destroys 2 continents being connected with a bunch of coast and island titles, like alaska->russia
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 03:47
|
|
|
brozozo posted:I know the Communitas mods get mentioned every now and then... Has anyone else tried their custom map mod? I've been playing on it a lot this past weekend, and I like it. It's a continents map with some extra bells and whistles: Natural Wonders in sensible spots, rivers flowing through lakes and to the ocean, mountains affect the amount of rainfall a tile gets. It seems like luxuries like to clump together. You'll find nearly half a dozen of one or two luxuries in one general area of a continent, but you'll be hard pressed to find many good spots to expand into later in the game. Am I crazy or does the Communitas map script (with or without the rest of the mod) change the yields of certain tiles? Can map scripts even do that? I specifically seem to remember lakes yielding two food and one gold regardless of techs/buildings when playing an otherwise vanilla game on Communitas. Anyway, if you like Communitas, check out PerfectWorld3. Similar realistic map script which places terrain as if the map had topography and elevation more complex than flat/hill/mountain. You get stuff like river basins, deltas, rain shadows and changes in climate based on "altitude".
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 04:11
|
|
|
Andy Waltfeld posted:If you have basic experience with FireTuner (or want to attain it), MultiPlayer ModPack Maker is a good way to go. Set up a game with the mod(s) you want, tab to FireTuner and punch in a command line query, and go read a book/catch up on LPs/whatever it is that can kill the 2.5-ish hours it takes to verify the core game files and make your mods recognizable as "(install folder)/Assets/DLC/MP_MODSPACK". This is awesome; I had no idea this was even possible. I stopped playing with mods I love (like RED, additional religion options, really advanced setup, perfectworld3, less warmonger hate, and so on) just because going into games through the mod screen took forever, and I still feel like I should get cheevos when I use simple tweaks. I would be interested in creating a "DLC" modpack to share with others, if that's possible, for both single- and multiplayer purposes. If I were to do something like that and share it with the goon community, are there any specific mods that folks would want included in that kind of modpack?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 05:01
|
|
|
Just came in here to remind people that the AI cheats, because I know there are people in this thread desperately determined to pretend it isn't so. I'm besieging Berlin right now. Berlin has an archer in it. Berlin builds another archer, has both archers fire, and then moves one on to a hill. If you had built a unit in a city that already had another unit in it, you'd have to move it before being able to do anything with either of them, there's no way you'd get to fire both of them from within your city on the same turn.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 16:24
|
|
|
Actually it's a bug, you can fire them both from the city sometimes and then on the next turn one of the archers gets punted an adjacent tile. It's happened to me a few times. On another note, what's the largest you've managed to get your capital? I recently got mine to 59 pop and looked on Google to see that noone had come close to this. But then I released everything I saw on Google was before trade routes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 16:33
|
|
|
I've gotten 73 or so, but that was with a really, REALLY great starting position.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 16:41
|
|
|
DarthBlingBling posted:Actually it's a bug, you can fire them both from the city sometimes and then on the next turn one of the archers gets punted an adjacent tile. It's happened to me a few times. Highest I have a screenshot for is size 77. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 17:00
|
|
|
I swear someone here managed to get a city into the high 200s. That was having edited the gently caress out of the map, though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 17:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 11:06 |
|
|
Maguoob posted:Highest I have a screenshot for is size 77. So did you just sit there with your one city while you waited for the Aztecs to finish colonizing the continent, before you turned on them and removed them from the Earth? EDIT: I'm a dumbass. TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Aug 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2014 17:18
|
|