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WoodrowSkillson posted:Has for thousands of years. It's not like I'm surprised, this is the goal of meeting minimal resistance with overwhelming force.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:37
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Neo Duckberg posted:No chanting, pretty goddamn quiet. wasn't the funeral today?
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Aug 21, 2014 01:38
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also I'm mad as hell about the church raid. it seems pretty clear to me that they just found whatever pretext they could to storm in and search the place, especially since they essentially cased the joint last night (and the night before if memory serves). why the gently caress would they be worried about enforcing building codes during a state of emergency?? even if there were people sleeping there, the cops literally blocked people from getting home at various times, so it wouldn't surprise me if people needed a safe place to spend the night. unbelievable.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:39
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Anderson cooper has bouncers lol.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:39
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Al Harrington posted:wasn't the funeral today? Nope, scheduled for monday.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:39
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I know people tend to fire more than they think they do in a situation where you're using your gun on a person, in a situation with real mortal danger, etc. But goddamn that was a lot of bullets. You'd think cop A could say to cop B, "hey, I'm going to get my taser" so that you can keep the lethal force option available while readying yourself to use something a little less murderous? Would police training cover something like that? I can understand if it's just you and a man with a knife, you don't want to chance fumbling your taser out, okay fine. But when you have backup and you've both trained a gun on him?
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Aug 21, 2014 01:39
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That was not what I expected to see based on the cops description of what happened. drat.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:39
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It's going to rain soon too.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:39
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Pellisworth posted:I only rewatched a couple times but honestly I don't see either a provocation for the cops to step out of their car and immediately pull their guns, nor do I see a knife. The guy filming on his cellphone and several other people walk by and clearly realize the victim is not "all there" but he's not being violent or making much of a scene. Then the cops pull in guns drawn, the guy says "shoot me shoot me kill me now" and walks towards them, they empty a ton of rounds into him. I didn't see a knife but I suppose he could have pulled something quickly and at close range the cops had no time but to fire. I agree that they should have tased him instead, but everything else they did was handled appropriately. Many witnesses including the one that made the call said he was acting irratic. Yea he was probably not mentally well, but he definitely appeared agitated, unpredictably, and potentially violent before the cops arrived. The cops did not instigate anything here.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:39
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Mr. Glass posted:Didn't the police claim that the person "lunged" with the knife in an "overhand grip"? That's not what it looks like in the video at all, but it's hard to tell exactly what went down from that distance. Do STL Metro PD cars have dashcams? Looks like as the police arrive he has his hand in his pocket, they have his guns on him and say "take your hands out of your pocket." He pulls the knife and says "shoot me kill me now," they're saying "drop it" and he walks towards them, as he gets closer they open fire. Doesn't look like any lunging, overhand grips, or even much momentum, he's not running. All starts about 1:20 Wadjamaloo posted:Its definitely suicide by cop, you can't try and portray it any way. The guy steals soda and sets them on ground waiting for cops to show up, he wanted to get shot to prove a point. Yeah, suicide by cop. He doesn't really attack them so much as pull the knife and walk menacingly while asking them to kill him. I won't argue it isn't a justified shooting under the law. How many random bystanders are there getting NOT knifed by this guy? Maybe instead of the cops pulling up pistols drawn, you call in some family members and whoever to help talk him down in addition to the cops, who should only be pulling their pistols on an agitated, mentally ill person as a last resort. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 01:40
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MRAPs heading down W Florissant to somewhere
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Aug 21, 2014 01:41
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Bhaal posted:I know people tend to fire more than they think they do in a situation where you're using your gun on a person, in a situation with real mortal danger, etc. But goddamn that was a lot of bullets. You'd think cop A could say to cop B, "hey, I'm going to get my taser" so that you can keep the lethal force option available while readying yourself to use something a little less murderous? They don't have tasers there.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:41
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I hear there's 50 people marching on the police station from another goon.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:41
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Pellisworth posted:Looks like as the police arrive he has his hand in his pocket, they have his guns on him and say "take your hands out of your pocket." He pulls the knife and says "shoot me kill me now," they're saying "drop it" and he walks towards them, as he gets closer they open fire. Doesn't look like any lunging, overhand grips, or even much momentum, he's not running. yeah i watched the video. i agree that the guy definitely had a death wish going into the interaction, but FROM WHAT WE CAN SEE IN THIS VIDEO the cops probably could have handled it without immediately escalating to deadly force.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:42
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How much of that is due to police response, and how much is it due to people having to get back to their jobs and such? I can't imagine that many of the protesters had the savings to give up their income for that long. This is a serious question, I don't know a lot about the patterns of these major protests.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:42
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Wadjamaloo posted:Its definitely suicide by cop, you can't try and portray it any other way. The guy steals soda and sets them on ground waiting for cops to show up, he wanted to get shot to prove a point. The cops handled it poorly, starting with the way they showed up. They did not have to roll up on the scene like it was a goddamn movie, the man was not a threat to anyone around him.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:42
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Ferguson market and liquor open again.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:43
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Why do so many folks seem assume all cops carry tasers or have them immediately available? Many don't. It can be pretty hard to effectively judge a situation in light of not knowing what may or may not have been available to an officer at the time of an incident.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:44
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Pohl posted:The cops handled it poorly, starting with the way they showed up. They did not have to roll up on the scene like it was a goddamn movie, the man was not a threat to anyone around him. They didn't even try to talk to him. No deescalation or anything immediately with guns out from the start, shouting, bam dead.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:44
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There is an electronic sign that says "approved assembly area" really far from everything
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Aug 21, 2014 01:44
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Untagged posted:Why do so many folks seem assume all cops carry tasers or have them immediately available? Many don't. It can be pretty hard to effectively judge a situation in light of not knowing what may or may not have been available to an officer at the time of an incident.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:45
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Untagged posted:Why do so many folks seem assume all cops carry tasers or have them immediately available? When there are unarmed people who aren't resisting they always seem to be immediately at hand.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:45
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Pohl posted:the man was not a threat to anyone around him. Until, you know, coming directly at someone (an officer) with a knife pointed in stab mode. Wadjamaloo posted:Its not as much that we assume they do as that we assume they should. If they can afford several MRAPs they can afford tasers. MRAPs are free. Tasers are not, at least until the DoD starts handing them out.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:45
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Neo Duckberg posted:There is an electronic sign that says "approved assembly area" really far from everything 
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Aug 21, 2014 01:45
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Apparently lots of protesting going on down in Clayton right now, about 12 miles from Ferguson.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:46
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Wadjamaloo posted:Its not as much that we assume they do as that we assume they should. If they can afford several MRAPs they can afford tasers. that's the thing though. they're as broke as the local governments they allegedly serve. they couldn't afford the MRAPs et.al. without being given them by the feds as free military surplus.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:47
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I have seen this image countless times and I just now notice the guy protesting for a "larger free speech zone". Man I love AD.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:47
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FactsAreUseless posted:How much of that is due to police response, and how much is it due to people having to get back to their jobs and such? I can't imagine that many of the protesters had the savings to give up their income for that long. That is a huge part of it. Sociologically, unless a significant portion of the population rises up, nothing is going to happen. The police can just beat and arrest people until the protesters become tired and hungry. The main thing our society is based upon is security, as in financial, not social. So yes, if you want to go out and protest everyday and be an activist, to do it right it is a full time job and you will lose that financial security. The government has also learned from activist protests in the past. They respond in different ways now, they simply crush them. The people in power know this, which is one of the reasons that the police response here was so obvious. Why were they instigating riots and rebellion among the populace? The only reason is because they knew they could, and as a well armed police force, they would win.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:48
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Untagged posted:Why do so many folks seem assume all cops carry tasers or have them immediately available? Many don't. It can be pretty hard to effectively judge a situation in light of not knowing what may or may not have been available to an officer at the time of an incident. You're right, expecting the police to be equipped or prepared to deal with an irrational confrontation with anything but maximum force is expecting far too much of them
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Aug 21, 2014 01:48
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Antonio French standing on a street corner chatting
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Aug 21, 2014 01:49
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Tasers are incredibly expensive to outfit a force with. In Ontario many of our departments are looking at equipping their officers with them now that they have been given the green light but money is a huge issue.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:50
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Re: the video, the very first thing the cops did when they got out of their car was to draw their guns. It was their immediate response, and it definitely happened before they even said a word to the man. They didn't even make an attempt to engage in any way except by holding him at gunpoint and shouting back. And he only pulled the knife and started walking towards them shouting 'shoot me' after he saw that they had guns pointed at him. Then the shooting started, and it continued well after he crumpled to the ground. At which point the police proceeded to handcuff a corpse. So hey, we already know the police are going to claim they're justified in killing this man because he was armed and walked toward them in a threatening manner while shouting... which is exactly what the cops themselves did to the people in the crowd just minutes later. Odds on whether or not it would be considered justified to shoot one of those cops? Because I'd sure as poo poo call that reasonable cause for the witnesses to believe their lives were in danger then; I mean, I didn't see the crazy guy murder anyone.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-P54MZVxMU What....wait what..... Am I lead through the noose here...what just happened...and why must I ask if this is real?
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Aug 21, 2014 01:50
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What streams are rolling tonight?
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Aug 21, 2014 01:51
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I still think their initial response is reasonable. If both hands were visible I could see them not drawing their guns and trying to engage in conversation. When a reportedly irrational and unpredictable perp is deliberately hiding his hand, you have to assume its a gun.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:51
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54.4 crowns posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-P54MZVxMU This is the officer involved shooting in st louis city yesterday. Yes, it's real.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:54
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WHERES TIM
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Aug 21, 2014 01:55
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Untagged posted:Until, you know, coming directly at someone (an officer) with a knife pointed in stab mode. Ah, a troll that cherry picks posts in order to defend their position. How new and exciting. SirJohnnyMcDonald posted:Tasers are incredibly expensive to outfit a force with. In Ontario many of our departments are looking at equipping their officers with them now that they have been given the green light but money is a huge issue. Police forces can't afford cameras and tasers but goddamn, they can buy loving tanks and drones.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:55
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Pohl posted:Police forces can't afford cameras and tasers but goddamn, they can buy loving tanks and drones. again, they're not buying them. they're acquired from the feds in the form of a grant. it's hosed up, but it's true.
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Aug 21, 2014 01:57
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Koalas March posted:Yeah, ironically if he hadn't turned to surrender he might have lived a little longer Probably because charging Johnson with anything would result in a trial where the actual circumstances of the shooting may come out. The way they are playing it now, they can let the officer say whatever he wants to the grand jury who will almost certainly not bring an indictment. This is so common and documented as to be the SOP for police brutality in this jurisdiction. WarEternal posted:Everyone should probably stop saying he didn't know about it, because since Friday the police have been saying that he did know about it, despite saying earlier on Friday that he didn't know about it. The official police story is going to be that he was aware of the "robbery" at the time he shot Brown. Yes, we should all forget that the police stated unequivocally that he did know about the robbery, before stating unequivocally that he did not know about the robbery, before finally trying to correct the optics with their original narrative after the DOJ stopped pestering them. 
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Aug 21, 2014 01:57
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