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Genocyber posted:Indeed, let's talk about how great a level the shrine of amana is instead. (cracks knuckles)
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Sep 5, 2014 15:03
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quote:I'm not sure what Vendrick actually wants and why he felt he had to gently caress off to do it, aside from the precautions he took to ensure Nashandra can't get at the First Flame once he left. He seems to be saying that there's something a "true leader" can do that he couldn't (or wouldn't), but I'm not sure what exactly. But it's interesting that he says "inherit fire, and harness the Dark" after saying three or four times that he tried to get closer to flame and regrets it. DS2 feels like it has a lot more in the way of Buddhist philosophical influences, although it doesn't necessarily advance them or try to explain them in much detail, but there's a lot of cycle of life/death/history and the acceptance of it running through the game lore and NPC dialogue. Lucatiel's good ending to her questline is essentially your presence giving her just enough grasp on her memory to realize she needs to accept her own death, after she spent all the meetings leading up to it afraid of losing her sense of self and desperate to fight against it. The entire game might be this for the player character, even. That line about inheriting fire and harnessing Dark seems to make Vendrick's musing on how Dark the player character is pretty important. The game treats light and dark is separate, so I think you're on to something here.
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Sep 5, 2014 15:03
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SHISHKABOB posted:The idea is that people are addicted to video games and every time you get a new one the cycle starts anew: go through the game and beat it. You can only fail if you give up. But what if you're supposed to give up? 
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Sep 5, 2014 15:06
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That's why it's DARK souls and not HAPPY souls. edit: also whoah dang Yorgh's spear is really strong fully upgraded. Also I have a question about infusion: on a wiki I read somewhere that the difference between S and A stat bonus is not that big of a deal, and so that items with S stat bonus, like the Hunter's Blackbow for example, are a good weapon to infuse because it won't hurt it that much. Is this true? SHISHKABOB fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 15:07
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The entire "going hollow by losing your spirit and motivation and just giving up" curse is a metaphor for players not finishing their playthrough. Thus, by definition, everyone goes hollow sooner or later. I really wish FROM had a mechanic where your current character would get invaded by NPC versions of player characters that haven't been loaded up in the last month.
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Sep 5, 2014 15:14
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Genocyber posted:It really wasn't. All it really did was make the world feel like a shoebox, compared to the much larger feeling DeS and Dks2. Not to mention having to traipse around everywhere was a pain in the rear end. It really didn't. DkS took place entirely within what was effectively a city-state built on/above the ruins of another, politically-related but distinct city-state. It was never supposed to be conveying a "world", only a small chunk of one. We never go anywhere outside of the domain of Lordran in DkS. The shining golden city was like the Forbidden City in China, located within the larger Capitol that is Beijing.
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Sep 5, 2014 15:43
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RoadCrewWorker posted:I really wish FROM had a mechanic where your current character would get invaded by NPC versions of player characters that haven't been loaded up in the last month. Like Stonesoup? That would be pretty cool but I already get a distinct feeling of spite every time I see the Drangleic set so that would drive that feeling to the moon. When I first started PvPing every single drat person was wearing it! Grated on my nerves though I was super happy every time I murdered one of them.
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Sep 5, 2014 16:26
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SHISHKABOB posted:Also I have a question about infusion: on a wiki I read somewhere that the difference between S and A stat bonus is not that big of a deal, and so that items with S stat bonus, like the Hunter's Blackbow for example, are a good weapon to infuse because it won't hurt it that much. Is this true? Most of what you read on the wikis that is not hard numbers is trash, fyi. Whether or not an S is significantly stronger than an A depends entirely on the weapons you're comparing. The scaling values we see are just representations of a series of values; this is why the Fume Sword can have an S scaling and get only +80 (at 40 dex) while the Puzzling Stone Sword will get +140). What makes a good elemental weapon is having high base damage, generally speaking. Infusing a weapon with a non-native attribute (such as Hunter's Blackbow with anything) will tank the scaling of everything on the weapon. It doesn't just decrease the scaling values as the smith screen shows you, but also adds a reduction to scaling bonuses. So that A or B scaling the infused weapon has is more like a D or C.
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Sep 5, 2014 16:55
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So I infused the Black Scorpion Stinger with Raw because it had pretty high base damage and also zero stat scaling bonuses. Good plan? also Sinh's music is pretty fuckin great too also does poison resist work against toxic?
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Sep 5, 2014 17:22
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SHISHKABOB posted:So I infused the Black Scorpion Stinger with Raw because it had pretty high base damage and also zero stat scaling bonuses. Good plan? Yes that's an ok plan but keep in mind it has 0 counter damage.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:30
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Woke up today and my Xbox 360 controller isn't being recognized. So frustrating.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:48
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Firstborn posted:Woke up today and my Xbox 360 controller isn't being recognized. So frustrating. Make sure you don't anything else plugged in that could be seen as a controller, I have to take out my USB Bluetooth receiver when I want to play.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:50
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So is there a quirk to people changing weapons almost instantly, or am I missing something really obvious? Several times now I've had people dive out from the melee attack that would have killed them, only to apparently instantly change to a whip and kill me instead. I'm more annoyed by the quirky hitbox than anything (my character's chest does not extend six feet out in front of her...) but I do want to make sure. This has cost me more than one fight now. e; probably related. I keep being invaded by, and invading, people from Australia and Russia. 
poptart_fairy fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 18:13
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Nakar posted:The implication - and the reason I suspect there's no ending choice in 2 - is that everything is a cycle and what you need to do is cope with it and decide for yourself whether you care or not, because nothing you do is going to change anything in the grand scheme of things. The Emerald Herald's dialogue at various points supports this, as does Vendrick's. She mentions that whatever plan there was for her failed, and the curse can't be stopped. She mentions the cycle of souls flourishing and fading will all play out again whether you accept or reject it. Hell, the first thing she says to you is "Are you the next monarch?" And if the DLC is any indication (to say nothing of Straid and Gilligan's dialogue, among others) kings and kingdoms come and go all the time. Cyclical futility is one way of looking at it, but that's omitting some important details about exactly what the cycle we're looking at consists of. There is some sort of natural cycle going on here, some sort of Mythic Thermodynamics, in the way the flame came to be on its own and began to fade after a certain time. But the thing is, no one really knows what happens next in the cycle, because all we've seen thus far is people artificially extending the cycle by rekindling the flames. The natural cycle has, as far as we know, never been allowed to play out; the cycle we're seeing is one of civilization clinging to an unsustainable way of life. Nakar posted:The Abyss once had form, but then dissipated. There's a bit of a chicken and the egg problem here, but I think it's the other way around regarding what feeds what. Fire came to being first, and the lord souls were found in it, a byproduct of it. In DS1, the flame fading is what causes the lord souls to lose their power, and Gwyn wants to rekindle the flame to bring that power back. It seems like it can go both ways, but it is strongly suggested that the it's the fire that fed the souls originally. In that vein, I'm pretty sure that it's actually feeding the flames that makes the Abyss stronger. Observe this quote you posted: Dark was seen as a curse. Shadow is not cast, but born of fire. And, the brighter the flame, the deeper the shadow. Inherit fire, and harness the Dark. Such is the calling of a true leader... When was the Abyss strongest and most whole? Back in the age of the gods, when the flame was also at its strongest. The Abyss has dissipated because the waning flame makes the distinction between light and dark muddier. There are tidbits all through this game suggesting that dark doesn't get stronger when light is weaker or vice versa, they're both two sides of the same thing, and inextricably linked. Nothing about the Abyss suggests that it's trying to bring everything to nothingness. The creatures of the Abyss want soul power, because the comfortable place where they used to live, and whatever natural flow of power that kept from them from wanting to come out and eat people, has all gone to hell.
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Sep 5, 2014 18:15
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I say Humanity is a fuel source because that's how Dark Souls 1 seems to frame it mechanically. The player can burn Humanity in bonfires to restore their appearance or increase the intensity of the flame. The Fire Keeper Soul descriptions say "A Fire Keeper's soul is a draw for humanity, and held within their bosoms, below just a thin layer of skin, are swarms of humanity that writhe and squirm" and that their soul is "gnawed at by infinite humanity." Manus's soul is described as "a viscous, lukewarm lump of gentle humanity." Gwyn kindled the First Flame and was left... a hollow. Also in 2 the Human Effigies are clearly Humanities and the description suggests as much. It's also worth noting that there is a clear association between Humanity, Dark, and the Abyss. All three are described at various points as "warm" or comforting. Felkin says "What drew me to the Dark? I... I do not know. Hexes are... are more than mere tools to me... I feel affinity... and warmth... Something universal, nostalgic... even. Those who discover Dark realize this... And... they never come back." Grandahl says "The embrace of the Dark is gentle. Let it absorb your sorrows, forever." Which makes it sound like the Abyss and Dark are sort of associated with the acceptance of nothingness. Note the darkness of the Undead Crypt, and the Ancient Dragon's claim that "the curse of Life is the curse of Want." It's essentially setting up the philosophical notion of the eternal struggle for meaning and desire in a cyclical universe where none may exist to be found versus giving up, refusing to fight it, and allowing whatever happens to happen. Also the "brighter the flame, the darker the shadow" argument seems odd when the Abyss is in its current state at the end of an era, rather than its beginning. Manus's Abyss was actually not as bad as Kaathe's empty eternal void, and Kaathe's main action was supporting the Darkwraiths, who stole and hoarded Humanity for themselves. There is definitely some argument that something else is going on in the series philosophically though; Solaire's quest for his sun might be futile, but it's possible for him to succeed with your help, after all, and Vendrick is up to something with his speeches. As for the Great Soul argument, it's possible creating the Great Souls did weaken the First Flame somewhat. Vendrick also implies that the Old Ones and Great Soul holders start to reappear toward the end of an age, rather than at its height. Gwyn and the others who held the souls first may be anomalies rather than the usual result of the cycles. The other issue is that there's no clear lore explanation for souls, as in the generic souls that exist as currency. in Demon's Souls there was a story explanation (the soul arts King Allant unleashed loosed a bunch of souls and beings hungrily started collecting them, and you can use them to strengthen your own soul), but in Dark Souls they're just like some kind of weird general expectation that souls exist and are useful but the world itself seems to revolve around the fires, the Dark Soul, and Humanity. It's a leftover mechanic from Demon's that is just kind of there, but sometimes it's mentioned anyway, and it apparently lets you level up and make swords stronger. And everybody wants them to stave off the curse, even though as far as I can tell they don't actually do that.
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Sep 5, 2014 18:54
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Finishing off the Iron King DLC - just the Iron passage co-op area to do. http://www.hitbox.tv/angrymog
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Sep 5, 2014 19:23
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Sure, you can burn humanity in bonfires, but I don't understand how any of those other item descriptions point to Humanity/Dark soul fragments being the primary fuel source for the fire. We don't know poo poo about the Fire Keepers, but of course they would be closely linked to humanity, since the Dark soul came from the flame that they're metaphyiscally bound to. Gwyn didn't have any Dark/Humanity in him to begin with, he left that poo poo alone and was afraid of it. Possibly, he looks hollow because in burning himself, he burnt whatever power that makes his kind alive, like how Dark does for humans, and so was forced out of the cycle of life and death like hollows are. Humans are comfortable with the Dark because the Dark soul is part of them. No matter what you think about whether the Furtive Pygmy was Manus or what have you, that much is more or less inarguable at this point. Throughout the game, there's very little that associates Dark with nothingness- that's the association you're putting on it, drawn mostly from how it's commonly used in other fantasy literature. This game repeatedly references Dark as being synonymous with the true nature of humanity, and it seems to be talking on a philosophical level, not just the literal fact that it's what makes hollows human. Actually, that literal fact is a philosophical indication- the predecessors of humans were empty beings, neither alive nor dead, until the Dark made the whole and alive. It's not just a cast shadow indicating the absence of something (this goes back to what Vendrick was saying), it's something warm drawn from the same power of fire as everything else. I think the talk of getting lost in Dark is referring to sinking into the most basic animal drives- the darkness of the human mind, and so on- more than an acceptance of nothingness. I'm not sure what you mean about it being odd that the Abyss is dissipated at the end of an era. I said think it's probably like that because of the fading fire. Or did you mean how the Abyss was relatively whole in DS1? When you see Manus' Abyss, you've gone back in time to when the decline of the gods was still fresh. As for the Four Kings abyss, well, that was still going on during the very first time the flame had started burning low. Anor Londo was still around and fueled by some of the gods' power, poo poo hadn't completely broken down. It would make sense if it took several more ages of people feebly trying to relight the fire before the Abyss completely broke up. Souls in Dark Souls don't seem to be the same thing as a consciousness. Souls held by beings seem to get imprinted with their memories and such, but a soul is not literally the being that held it. Each one is not necessarily a separate entity. It's more like a hunk of life force, and it seems to both come from fire and produce fire. Fire is also life force in this universe, so they're two forms of the same thing. Much of the talk about sorcery says as much. Maybe Undead want souls because of a longer-term effect than what the player can see in the timeframe of the game. They don't reverse hollowing, but they could slow it. If souls are a power source produced mainly by living beings, and the Undead are neither living nor dead, then they need the souls of other beings to keep themselves in some semblance of life. Because what happens when an Undead's physical body is pushed into what ought to be death? It goes more hollow, burns more Humanity to sustain itself.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:12
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Well the association with Dark and the Abyss and nothingness is that the Abyss is, well... nothing. The 4K are fought in an empty-rear end void, one you can't even stand in without Artorias's ring. Manus's chasm slowly becomes darker and darker and less and less whole, and the entirety of Oolacile Township seems to be sinking into it. We're told Manus spread the Abyss (although possibly unwittingly) and that his fragments seek to spread Dark as well. Nashandra "covets the First Flame and the Great Souls." What does she actually want with them? If she just wants to profit off their flourishing she might as well just wait for you to link the fire since last time we saw someone do that it burned them. Apparently she wasn't concerned with that, as she seemed to want to kill you and take the throne herself. Or something. Then there's the whole part about the Throne of Want granting wishes, something even Vendrick thinks is true (and he thinks everything else is a lie), and something the Emerald Herald seems to sorta-confirm in the ending.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:25
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Maybe the wish granting is that you get control of the golems that built Drangleic when you sit in the throne. You get the power to shape the world as you see fit. Nashandra wanted your giant's kinship, which she couldn't get without the ashen mist heart, which the Ancient Dragon wouldn't give to her.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:41
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Nakar posted:Well the association with Dark and the Abyss and nothingness is that the Abyss is, well... nothing. The 4K are fought in an empty-rear end void, one you can't even stand in without Artorias's ring. Manus's chasm slowly becomes darker and darker and less and less whole, and the entirety of Oolacile Township seems to be sinking into it. We're told Manus spread the Abyss (although possibly unwittingly) and that his fragments seek to spread Dark as well. Nashandra "covets the First Flame and the Great Souls." What does she actually want with them? If she just wants to profit off their flourishing she might as well just wait for you to link the fire since last time we saw someone do that it burned them. Apparently she wasn't concerned with that, as she seemed to want to kill you and take the throne herself. Or something. Doesn't that kind of answer your own question about Nashandra, then? She wants the souls and the throne because she wants power, for herself, and doesn't care about anyone else. They're good for more than just restoring the fire, that whole thing is only relevant if you're human and/or care about the fate of the rest of the world. Nashandra is practically an embodiment of humanity's darker impulses (heh), driven by a lust for power, and she doesn't give a poo poo. I guess what it boils down to is that this is how I want to see Nashandra and the dark. I really, really do not want to see this series devolve into the same utterly meaningless cliche of light vs dark, good vs evil, where there's some malignant force out there that wants to kill the world and eat puppies just because. This sort of thing can be done well but it is extremely rare. And I really don't want the root of the cycle-of-fire conundrum to turn out to be some generic evil, rather than some vast turning of the world that's more complex than the labels we put on it based on our own needs.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:46
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Well I mean like doesn't the player do everything just because in the first place? I mean in ds1 at least he's got like a legend that he hears? But in this one he does everything cause emerald chick tells him too.
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Sep 5, 2014 21:01
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DS2 alludes to the player being sent to Drangelic by a old firekeeper in order to find a cure for the curse, he/she finds the house of firekeepers who leads him to Majula and the Emerald, who then tells you to beat everyone. DS1 was basically stuck in prison until Oscar bails you out with a key and tells you the legend of the Two Belltwoers.
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Sep 5, 2014 21:03
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A bit off topic but I would like to share a stream watching experience. I went to twitch (unfortunately) to see some cool PVP builds that cool kids are using but became distracted by one particular player. I watched a retarded+illiterate man who seemed to be running in and dying to Giant Lord about 20+ times over the course of an hour meanwhile refusing to roll even once under any circumstance (I am unsure how he had gotten this far into the game.) Throughout this he was explaining in an angry tone that Dark Souls 2 is a bad game because it wasn't letting him win and at the end he rage quit vowing to never play it again. He sat staring at his camera in anger and confusion for some moments and without a hint of irony announced that "it is now time to play a REAL game" and proceeded to load up League of Legends. Other than learning that Twitch may not be the best place for my particular endeavor I still would like to know: Has viral marketing gone too far?
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Sep 5, 2014 21:04
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That just sounds like some guy playing a gimmick to be honest. I can't imagine someone could actually reach Giant Lord without ever rolling and rage quit THERE.
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Sep 5, 2014 21:32
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What was his twitch username?
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Sep 5, 2014 21:33
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Do throwing knives do infinite poise damage? I've never failed to stop an attack with them. Also, the only times I really lose in pvp now are when the tracking breaks or when someone has a more busted hitbox than the katanas do. Lag isn't even as much of a problem anymore (though I just lost a fight because we both clashed and his stab animation somehow led to me teleporting into a backstab). Of course a couple still beat me, but drat, this takes so little effort with two katanas compared to how frustrating and challenging it is to do pvp with a spellcaster. I just can't get over it. Also, 105 agility really does make a huge difference over 100. e: Bows gently caress me up in pvp too since I can't close the distance. Turns out throwing knives don't interrupt it either. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 21:44
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Tae posted:DS2 alludes to the player being sent to Drangelic by a old firekeeper in order to find a cure for the curse, he/she finds the house of firekeepers who leads him to Majula and the Emerald, who then tells you to beat everyone. Idk I think the player character in ds2 is drawn to drangleic in the same way people who love the souls games were drawn to ds2: like moths to a flame. It's a curse, and it's one that happens again and again. The "chosen" undead are the players who play the ever loving poo poo out of it. I've got 130 or so hours and I've seen the ending credits three times for NG. The emerald herald is your mom asking you to break the cycle please. Please stop playing video games. It's your choice, of course. The dark and light aspect is not a good vs evil thing, it's just a difference. It's a disparity. I think nashandra wants to die at the end becAuse she says "you have proven yourself to me" and "embrace the dark". Also earlier she says like "we have no need for two rulers". She wants the player to be the king and kill her and win the game and start it all over again. You do embrace the dark by starting over again because when you start a new game you have no light. I mean you might have the whole game memorized at this point but whatever. It's a metaphor.
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Sep 5, 2014 21:52
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Nahxela posted:Considering that Vendrick went off to the land of giants to go pick up the Throne/the Kiln, I'd expect Anor Londo/Lordran to be over in Giant land. The Giant Lord is the DS1 player character and you need to kill him to gain his power to defeat Nashandra/Manus because he did it before already 
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Sep 5, 2014 21:55
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You know what's funny is that out of all the nations that existed during Dark Souls 1, only Catarina lasted.
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Sep 5, 2014 22:32
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SunAndSpring posted:You know what's funny is that out of all the nations that existed during Dark Souls 1, only Catarina lasted. Did it? I thought you just sort of found one of their helmets. Do you meet a dude?
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Sep 5, 2014 22:45
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Trip report from iron bridge pvping at the max soul level. I was accused of: R1 spamming - two-handed puzzle sword poked an invader R2 spamming - one-handed puzzle sword whip killed some guy with 1000 hours playtime L1 spamming - blocking too much against a spear guy I think L2 spamming - trying to parry a lot, which I'm not great at I'll have to ask these bunch of babies if I'm allowed to hit select or start.
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Sep 5, 2014 22:45
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SHISHKABOB posted:Did it? I thought you just sort of found one of their helmets. Do you meet a dude? The description for the armor set implies they're still around. There is a black phantom NPC invader that can drop the set as well.
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Sep 5, 2014 22:46
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The description seems to imply to me that they are not around, as they are "old tales".
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Sep 5, 2014 22:47
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SHISHKABOB posted:Did it? I thought you just sort of found one of their helmets. Do you meet a dude? You also find the gauntlets and leggings in the OIK DLC. I expect the final DLC will have the chestpiece as well.
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Sep 5, 2014 22:55
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Sinh is kicking my rear end. Wow. Hits like a loving truck and I'm terrible at reading non-weapon hitboxes.
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Sep 5, 2014 23:14
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SHISHKABOB posted:The description seems to imply to me that they are not around, as they are "old tales".
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Sep 5, 2014 23:20
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Ravenfood posted:Sinh is kicking my rear end. Wow. Hits like a loving truck and I'm terrible at reading non-weapon hitboxes. I found that staying behind him helps a lot. I never killed him on my own, but it helps oodles with staying alive. And when he flies up into the air always sort of run at him but at an angle so that you are headed to his back, but not directly under him. Just roll a lot I guess when he tries to swipe at you with his head or claws. also cut off his tail if you wanna be cool.
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Sep 5, 2014 23:29
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I ran into a guy playing pvp last night who could freaking teleport- I would swing, he'd disappear in a puff of white smoke, and reappear to the side or behind me. Does anyone have a clue what miracle/item he was using? I don't think it was a spell, he had a weapon equipped and never went through a casting animation.
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Sep 5, 2014 23:33
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Omi no Kami posted:I ran into a guy playing pvp last night who could freaking teleport- I would swing, he'd disappear in a puff of white smoke, and reappear to the side or behind me. Does anyone have a clue what miracle/item he was using? I don't think it was a spell, he had a weapon equipped and never went through a casting animation. It's the Simpleton's Ring from the Crown of the Old Iron King DLC. It increases your adaptability by 5 and makes you turn invisible when you roll.
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Sep 5, 2014 23:35
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Omi no Kami posted:I ran into a guy playing pvp last night who could freaking teleport- I would swing, he'd disappear in a puff of white smoke, and reappear to the side or behind me. Does anyone have a clue what miracle/item he was using? I don't think it was a spell, he had a weapon equipped and never went through a casting animation. He was just rolling, the Simpleton's Ring in the second DLC makes you invisible in your roll animation (as well as adding 5 Adp).
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Sep 5, 2014 23:36
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