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PriorMarcus posted:It's got something to do with the Cybermen too probably. Yeah, judging by the episode description previews the finale two-parter is a Cyberman story so that's pretty likely.
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Sep 2, 2014 23:19
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Aw hell. the friggin' Cybermen. I don't hate Nightmare in Silver like some people here, but they're just not compelling antagonists. They look kind of scary, but in practice they come off as dumb as hell. Whereas the Daleks look dumb as hell, and then come off terrifying. Because people love the Daleks. Who loves the Cybermen? NOBODY LOVES THE CYBERMEN.
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Sep 5, 2014 05:45
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Spatula City posted:Aw hell. the friggin' Cybermen. I don't hate Nightmare in Silver like some people here, but they're just not compelling antagonists. They look kind of scary, but in practice they come off as dumb as hell. Whereas the Daleks look dumb as hell, and then come off terrifying. Because people love the Daleks. Who loves the Cybermen? NOBODY LOVES THE CYBERMEN. You have mail. To The Order of Shut Your Noise Hole: gently caress You. I ADORE the Cybermen ya gently caress. They would be fantastic, especially now adays, if some one, ANYONE, would loving write them like Cybermen. None of their stories have been as entertaining as The Invasion, and the last one to explore them as they should be was Tomb, so REALLY play up that angle if you can't be entertaining. Stop treating them like their unstoppable robot armies and Borg and treat them as the ultimate survivalists who refuse to die, even though they effectively did long ago. No one wants to do this though.
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Sep 5, 2014 06:06
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They hardly seem dangerous in their current form.. Apart from how everyone reacts to them.
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Sep 5, 2014 06:11
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sorry, I only know them from the revival. Maybe they were once good and interesting villains. But never since I've been watching.
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Sep 5, 2014 06:59
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I have not wached classic who, but I find the pictures of the old school cybermen with the giant life support machines hanging off of them rather haunting. The handles and thing on their head made far more sense and was creepier when it was an extremely low tech vocalizer strapped haphazardly on their heads.
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Sep 5, 2014 07:48
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You know what makes no loving sense? The decision to write an episode meant to make the Cybermen scary again in which you pit them against a bunch of mentally inept cast offs. Good job Caiman and Moffat. EDIT: Also, they have re-edited Robot of Sherwood to remove the beheading. Expect some loving awful jump cuts to get around it all, maybe a fade if we're really unlucky. PriorMarcus fucked around with this message at 09:10 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 09:01
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Given exactly who gets beheaded and what happens afterward that seems really awkward.
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Sep 5, 2014 14:21
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Rita Repulsa posted:I have not wached classic who, but I find the pictures of the old school cybermen with the giant life support machines hanging off of them rather haunting. Yeah old school cybermen were really awesome since they were essentially walking corpses. Basically they were people who went to such extremes to "survive" they can't even tell that there's not much left of who they were. They didn't go around just randomly converting people; it was all about what benefited them and kept them running for just a little longer... (And I liked the drat gold dust weakness. It had some logic behind it and wasn't silly like Nightmare in Silver.) Edit: \/ What? It worked fine for giving them an Achillies' Heel. Nightmare in Silver missed the entire reason they were adverse to gold. Mokinokaro fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Sep 5, 2014 |
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Sep 5, 2014 15:31
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Mokinokaro posted:(And I liked the drat gold dust weakness. It had some logic behind it and wasn't silly like Nightmare in Silver.) Good lord now I've seen every opinion
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Sep 5, 2014 16:32
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The "gold dust gets into the Cybermen's respiratory system and fucks them up" thing was OK enough; silly, but plausible enough as a weakness. It was when they started treating it like Cybermen were vampires and that gold (not even gold in the form of dust, just straight-up anything made out of gold) was like holy water that would destroy them if it so much as touched 'em that it became rather stupid.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:30
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PantsOptional posted:Given exactly who gets beheaded and what happens afterward that seems really awkward. I've blocked out everything but the spoon fight and the stupid tri-arrow spaceship thing. Wasn't it the Sheriff who was beheaded and it's revealed that he was a robot or something? How the gently caress do you edit that and still have anything make sense? Holy poo poo am I looking forward to the other thread's reaction.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:45
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The Cybermen work best when they are not just another conquering alien race, but are actually used in a more horror like story. Sadly, even in old Who, they were too often used inserted in the usual "X tries to take over Y" format.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:46
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e X posted:The Cybermen work best when they are not just another conquering alien race, but are actually used in a more horror like story. Sadly, even in old Who, they were too often used inserted in the usual "X tries to take over Y" format. The best was The Invasion, and that's mostly because while the Cybermen weren't being played up to their strengths, A LOT of what makes them scary was at the core of the story, from how their technology became so wide spread, to the weapon developed to stop them to begin with, the emotion overloader thing-which didn't KILL them, I'll note, New Who. It made them EVEN MORE DANGEROUS you fuckers. Also, you know, Vahn. That man could have saved ANY serial he was in.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:53
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I've blocked out everything but the spoon fight and the stupid tri-arrow spaceship thing. Wasn't it the Sheriff who was beheaded and it's revealed that he was a robot or something? How the gently caress do you edit that and still have anything make sense? The head was the only human part of him left after the ship fell on him - and if memory serves, the head starts talking independently after the beheading and there's at least a handful of lines of dialogue about the whole thing. Editing from "suddenly the bad guy is here" to "suddenly the bad guy is no longer an issue" is going to be a doozy.
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Sep 5, 2014 17:57
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Spatula City posted:Aw hell. the friggin' Cybermen. I don't hate Nightmare in Silver like some people here, but they're just not compelling antagonists. They look kind of scary, but in practice they come off as dumb as hell. Whereas the Daleks look dumb as hell, and then come off terrifying. Because people love the Daleks. Who loves the Cybermen? NOBODY LOVES THE CYBERMEN. I love these Cybermen. They scare the poo poo out of me, the way the Cybermen ought to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBHGbBJwyh0
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Sep 5, 2014 17:59
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Burkion posted:Also, you know, Vahn. That man could have saved ANY serial he was in. Vaughn*
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Sep 5, 2014 18:08
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Spoilers Below posted:I love these Cybermen. They scare the poo poo out of me, the way the Cybermen ought to. Yeah, I really love the early cybermen. Those voices and the fact they still vaguely resemble humans makes them far creepier than the more robot-looking later versions. And yeah specifically I was talking about the gold DUST thing. Not the stupid all gold hurts them idea.
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Sep 5, 2014 18:23
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Mokinokaro posted:Yeah, I really love the early cybermen. Those voices and the fact they still vaguely resemble humans makes them far creepier than the more robot-looking later versions. They hit right into the uncanny valley with their appearance, which is why I think they make you so uncomfortable watching them. Also yes, Invasion is a great story, but I still think they work best outside of large scale events.
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Sep 5, 2014 18:32
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Vaughn* Packer 
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Sep 5, 2014 19:42
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Welp, I think I'll be giving "The Invasion" a re-watch this weekend when I'm off, now. Thanks guys 
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Sep 5, 2014 19:58
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BBC posted a clip of the Spoon scene and wow that's as dumb as it sounded when I read the blurb from the script. Also, PriorMarcus, you mentioned Nightmare in Silver, and while you are quite right, I wouldn't blame Gaiman for it. According to him the script was hosed around with so much it barely resembled what he turned in, as well as them having huge editing issues trying to cut around terrible child actors.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:12
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Gaiman's script was written really early on back when it was apparently Victorian Clara who was travelling with the Doctor. Moffatt obviously made huge changes to the season's overall arc at some point which meant Nightmare in Silver's changes occurred too. The only parts of that episode that really feel like a Gaiman idea are the theme park setting and Warwick Davis' character.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:18
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The highlight of the time I met him was him describing his idea for the Cybermen assault on the castle. They kept dying in the moat until there were enough cyber corpses to create a makeshift bridge for the rest to cross and invade. That's way cooler than "We've upgraded and water no longer effects us." Mr. Clever is also a very Gaiman thing, and the best part of the episode, so good on him for getting some of his stuff through.
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Sep 5, 2014 22:39
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Whatever Nightmare in Silver's faults, I love the Cyberman Doctor and Warwick Davis's performance in it. Those elements make it a memorable, if not precisely great episode.
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Sep 5, 2014 22:43
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:The highlight of the time I met him was him describing his idea for the Cybermen assault on the castle. They kept dying in the moat until there were enough cyber corpses to create a makeshift bridge for the rest to cross and invade. That's way cooler than "We've upgraded and water no longer effects us." I find it rather amusing how the Borg were very heavily inspired by the Cybermen, yet in their latest iteration the Cybermen seem to borrow a lot more from the Borg, in the way that they march inexorably towards their enemies whilst What I really miss about the classic Cybermen is the sheer desperation to survive at any cost, which as touched upon by other people in the thread made them seem more like barely more than walking corpses hooked up to mobile life support systems. Although admittedly I do rather like their current physical design, its just the voice I'm not keen on. Pair the current look with a classic voice and you'd have a winner. We've all listened to Spare Parts, we know you can do it Nick Briggs.
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Sep 5, 2014 23:02
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Spare Parts is just so loving awesome. One of my favourite Cybermen stories despite just being an audio drama.
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Sep 5, 2014 23:10
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I actually didn't mind the Cyberman and their iteration in Army of Ghosts/Doomsday but at least RTD did some interesting political commentary with them.
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Sep 5, 2014 23:45
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Mooseontheloose posted:I actually didn't mind the Cyberman and their iteration in Army of Ghosts/Doomsday but at least RTD did some interesting political commentary with them. It should be noted that elements of these episodes (along with Parting of the Ways) were heavily inspired from the final 8th Doctor comic in Doctor Who Monthly, The Flood. Which I think, similar to Spare Parts, is actually one of the best Cybermen stories despite being "just" a spinoff. It involves the final Cybermen from the distant future (where they've been forced to become very gaunt, skeletal forms) traveling back in time to try to save their race by harvesting parts from modern-day humans, since in their future there are no more genetically-compatable humans left. And when they capture the Doctor, they decide to try and uncover the key to Time Lord regeneration to revitalize their race. Notably RTD also originally said this could show the canonical regeneration of McGann to Eccleston at the end, but then withdrew his permission (though he then used their idea for Parting of the Ways). The collected version of the comic does show the (uncolored) post-regeneration scene, though, with Eccleston dressed in McGann's outfit. Also the actual comic ends with McGann losing his Edwardian jacket and deciding to replace it with a black leather coat. I guess what I'm saying is, The Flood is a really great story but is very sadly not well known.
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Sep 6, 2014 01:20
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The Take That song based off it is better known
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Sep 6, 2014 14:45
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Hands grabbing your ankle from under the bed? gently caress that. Ticket to Nopesville please.
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Sep 7, 2014 01:26
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So I keep trying to work out how the Cybermen are connected to Paradise and Missy and I just don't get it. We see Missy with the Doctor apparently, so she may not be working with them... Could the Cybermen of some how created Paradise to draw in other beings?
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Sep 7, 2014 03:39
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Apart from the spoon bit, that episode was nowhere near as bad as this thread made it out to be. I rather liked the Tinny Robots who looked like something from the old run of the series
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Sep 7, 2014 03:42
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I like anything where people bicker in a situation that's supposed to be serious. Plus it gets points for Capaldi sneaking in a middle finger.
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Sep 7, 2014 04:02
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Burkion posted:So I keep trying to work out how the Cybermen are connected to Paradise and Missy and I just don't get it. The clockwork robots are Cybermen of the future who've learned there is no Cyber Heaven. So, they've gone to back to the past in order to steal parts so they can become people once again.
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Sep 7, 2014 05:37
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Burkion posted:So I keep trying to work out how the Cybermen are connected to Paradise and Missy and I just don't get it. I'm not sure they're on the same side-- Missy seems to be all about endings. The Cybermen are about postponing those as long as possible. I suspect that she's going to get involved mostly out of irritation at these cyber-fucks keeping people from dying, and the doctor will have to deal with the fact that Death is super into him in a sex way because he kills so many people and dooms so many others.
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Sep 7, 2014 06:42
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This is the third episode I've fallen asleep watching in a row. Too bad. I really like Capaldi bluntly telling Allan-A-Dale (or whoever) that, if he were real, all of his diseases would kill him in sixth months and then wandering off to examine apples in the background. I wish there was more of that than interminable dungeon scenes that aren't funny or informative.
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Sep 7, 2014 14:46
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I'm starting to wonder exactly what The Promised Land is. We've now had too episodes with robot-crewed spaceships trying to find it (originally during this last episode I was suspecting it might be the SAME ship in a different time period) and neither one being able to find it though it looked like the castle ship knew where it was. My first thought was it might be Gallifrey, but I don't see why robots would be looking for that. I do feel it would be far more interesting for Missy to not be a villain for once. Having the mysterious plot arc character be heroic or a misguided good person is less common in Who.
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Sep 7, 2014 15:01
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Mokinokaro posted:I do feel it would be far more interesting for Missy to not be a villain for once. Having the mysterious plot arc character be heroic or a misguided good person is less common in Who. This has been most Moffat villains. The Pandorica Alliance was misguided in thinking the Doctor would destroy the universe. Kovarian and The Silence wanted to stop the Doctor reaching Trenzalore so the endless war would never begin. Hell, even the collected forces of his enemies in Time of the Doctor were there to stop the Time Lords returning because they feared a second Great Time War.
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Sep 7, 2014 17:37
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PriorMarcus posted:Hell, even the collected forces of his enemies in Time of the Doctor were there to stop the Time Lords returning because they feared a second Great Time War. I always thought it was really funny/stupid that the collected forces of the Daleks/Cybermen/everyone else didn't want the Time Lords to return since it would cause the Time War to begin again, and so sent all of their military forces endlessly against Trenzalore, only for them to be defeated endlessly solely by the Doctor for a thousand years. If they're that incompetent you'd think he'd be all for bringing back the Time Lords since it seems like The Most Evil Villains in the Universe basically amount to "a sight nuisance."
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Sep 7, 2014 18:37
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