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I'd call Ivar anything but easy going unless you've played a ton. I kept getting ceaseless holy wars from Mercia and Wessex and could barely hang on to East Anglia. And once you grab Ireland for your first King title you run the risk of enormous Catholic revolts. As for managing gavelkind, there's stabbing, and there's stabbing. In your position however it might be easier to just gobble up counties and stick to one single Duchy title until your inheritance looks better manageable and only then create a King title. This way the realm will hold together. If you want to pretty things up, grant conquered counties to younger sons so that you keep a certain demesne that your eldest is guaranteed to inherit. Remember to keep a watchful eye on counts who might be growing too big for their trousers and ready to create a duchy of their own.
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Sep 9, 2014 11:34
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BBJoey posted:Okay so it turns out that yes, taking your daughter as a concubine is a thing that you can do as Zoroastrians, yup. Don't even have the decency to marry her, do you?
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Sep 9, 2014 12:03
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Antti posted:I'd call Ivar anything but easy going unless you've played a ton. I kept getting ceaseless holy wars from Mercia and Wessex and could barely hang on to East Anglia. And once you grab Ireland for your first King title you run the risk of enormous Catholic revolts. Ivar is totally easy going if you conquer most of the British Isles and then switch to Catholicism 
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Sep 9, 2014 13:15
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Antti posted:Remember to keep a watchful eye on counts who might be growing too big for their trousers and ready to create a duchy of their own. Vassals can't create titles that would make them equal with their liege, no matter how much territory they hold. This is still good advice, though, just replace "create a duchy of their own" with "try and steal yours". Your vassals are Not To Be Trusted.
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Sep 9, 2014 13:34
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Vastakaiun posted:Don't even have the decency to marry her, do you? Um I was married to my sister thank you very much.
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Sep 9, 2014 13:54
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TheBlackRoija posted:e: Reforming is really not a big deal until you get to the point where there is nobody on the world map worth fighting over a single county I think reforming is a pretty big deal if only to get out of gavelkind. Having to carefully manage how many sons you have and conquering your brothers every generation gets old. 
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Sep 9, 2014 14:21
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Dallan Invictus posted:Vassals can't create titles that would make them equal with their liege, no matter how much territory they hold.  Has it always been that way in CK2? At this point it's probably obvious I've never played a game as a vassal.
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Sep 9, 2014 14:26
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As far as I remember, yeah. They have to become independent somehow before they can create that (duchy/kingdom/empire) on their own. If you give them that title then they become independent, though.
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Sep 9, 2014 14:33
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Antti posted:
You're missing out, there's nothing quite as satisfying as becoming a megaduke.
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Sep 9, 2014 14:42
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Thanqol posted:You're missing out, there's nothing quite as satisfying as becoming a megaduke. Agreed, it's hilarious to realise "hey, I'm that guy I would have had strangled years ago if I was playing the Emperor, welp, too late now, DANCE, PUPPET, DANCE."
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Sep 9, 2014 14:45
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Playing as a minor one-province count in East Francia and raising successive heirs as the greatest spymasters of the realm, and then uniting the HRE through plotting and intrigue, all from your little realm in the Alps, has got to be one of the most satisfying CK2 plays imaginable.
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Sep 9, 2014 14:48
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I'm sold, what would be a good prospective megaduke start?
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Sep 9, 2014 14:52
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Antti posted:I'm sold, what would be a good prospective megaduke start? Aquitane is already a megaduke if you want to start easy
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Sep 9, 2014 15:18
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BBJoey posted:Um I was married to my sister thank you very much. Closely related concubines isn't that hot of an idea since, while you do have a much lower chance of getting the inbred trait, you also have a much lower fertility.
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Sep 9, 2014 15:51
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Saxony is a good starting position in Old Gods. Norse pagans to the north and Slavic pagans to your east. Lots of potential for expansion.
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Sep 9, 2014 15:52
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Glokta posted:Saxony is a good starting position in Old Gods. Norse pagans to the north and Slavic pagans to your east. Lots of potential for expansion. Well it's almost 100% certain that Charlemagne's event-driven story will lead him to constantly declare war on you with a united Francia, for a start. Also we don't really know what tribal realms can do in play, and all pagans are locked into Elective Gavelkind which is 'Gavelkind but worse'
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Sep 9, 2014 16:06
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AdjectiveNoun posted:Well it's almost 100% certain that Charlemagne's event-driven story will lead him to constantly declare war on you with a united Francia, for a start. Also we don't really know what tribal realms can do in play, and all pagans are locked into Elective Gavelkind which is 'Gavelkind but worse' Expansion as in "conquering and slaying", not as in "Next DLC". At least, I think that's where you went wrong.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:08
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AdjectiveNoun posted:Well it's almost 100% certain that Charlemagne's event-driven story will lead him to constantly declare war on you with a united Francia, for a start. Also we don't really know what tribal realms can do in play, and all pagans are locked into Elective Gavelkind which is 'Gavelkind but worse' It's stunning to me how the phrase 'Gavelkind but worse' causes me to twitch involuntarily in loathing.
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Sep 9, 2014 16:08
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Sky Shadowing posted:It's stunning to me how the phrase 'Gavelkind but worse' causes me to twitch involuntarily in loathing. 
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Sep 9, 2014 16:34
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Gavelkind isn't that bad, just make sure you only hold one of your highest tier title so your realm doesn't facture. You still get claims on titles you lose, so it's not like it's a huge deal. I'm wondering how exactly elective gavelkind will work though.
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Sep 9, 2014 17:36
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Smoremaster posted:Gavelkind isn't that bad, just make sure you only hold one of your highest tier title so your realm doesn't facture. You still get claims on titles you lose, so it's not like it's a huge deal. I'm wondering how exactly elective gavelkind will work though. I personally, like to keep on pumping out possible heirs and ten when I get to around age 50 I start murdering all the retarded ones and marry the one I anticipate will inherit. It's also fun to see how pissed everyone gets at you for doing this and then they forgive you 2 years later.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:32
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I went to check out CK2+ the other day, and Did I mess up something between extracting the archive and pressing the 'play' button, or is the de jure setup really like that? e: And I thought that the wonky map had been changed, but Liguria's still nuts, too.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:43
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:I personally, like to keep on pumping out possible heirs and ten when I get to around age 50 I start murdering all the retarded ones and marry the one I anticipate will inherit. It's also fun to see how pissed everyone gets at you for doing this and then they forgive you 2 years later. I used to do that too, but then this one time I was going to do it and then my ruler got murdered at 41 and I was completely hosed.
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Sep 9, 2014 18:43
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Ofaloaf posted:Did I mess up something between extracting the archive and pressing the 'play' button, or is the de jure setup really like that? No, that's the designed de jure HRE setup for the 1000 bookmark. Artois and Holstein are weird but have been fixed in the dev version for 3.01. (Artois is being assigned to France, Holstein is being split up between Denmark, Saxony, and Pommerania.)
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Sep 9, 2014 18:47
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Dallan Invictus posted:
Antti posted:I'm sold, what would be a good prospective megaduke start? I've just started a game where, as the republic of Amalfi, I sweared fealty to the pope. I'm slowly conquering territory in his name (because he won't do anything against his neighbors). The goal is to have the papacy be a very large power and possibly mess up in game mechanics in the process. This is going to be fun! Unrelated, I tried the Elder Kings mod last night. Was impressed by just how much they crammed in and all the art assets! But there's a lot to go still, with shields missing and lots of flavor still missing it seems. Had no idea there were monkey people, but they have no descriptions for their religions for example. Though the Draugr to the north seem like a great opportunity to recreate the famous SKELETONS image, and they're adding Dwemer for the character creater! But, speaking of the earlier easy starts to reform the faith, is there a guide for quickest possible reforms in order? I guess to get the fastest reforms it's: 1. Norse 2. Tengri 3. Slavic 4. Soumensko 5. Romuva 6. West African Seems like one would have to be sacrificed to continue with the others though. I don't see Romuva lasting against reformed Slavics.
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Sep 9, 2014 19:55
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If you play as Hungary, Tengri is easier to reform than Norse. Also, Romuva is easier to reform than Suomo, because you don't have to deal with the Norse as much.
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Sep 9, 2014 20:03
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In my experience, the easiest to reform are:
Slavic and Soumensko are tied in my mind; I've never seen either one reform and from what I remember, both have several holy sites held by other religions in 867.
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Sep 9, 2014 20:07
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Smoremaster posted:I'm wondering how exactly elective gavelkind will work though. I'm guessing it's that the actual heir is elective from amongst your kids? Maybe voted on by the dukes and other title holders. So you don't know if your first born is going to get the crown or one of the younger kids. Then the remaining titles are divided up.
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Sep 9, 2014 20:11
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Closely related concubines isn't that hot of an idea since, while you do have a much lower chance of getting the inbred trait, you also have a much lower fertility. Incidentally, this is also why Messalians are not so hot. If you actually make use of the divine marriage mechanic, you get less fertility, and no concubines to make up the difference.
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Sep 9, 2014 20:45
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Has anyone ever actually reformed West African? I've always wanted to play a mega Mali CK2-EUIV game as reformer West Africans but it seems impossible to deal with the Umayyads.
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Sep 9, 2014 21:17
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Inside Outside posted:Has anyone ever actually reformed West African? I've always wanted to play a mega Mali CK2-EUIV game as reformer West Africans but it seems impossible to deal with the Umayyads. I've done it once, I never want to do it again. I pulled it off by going full North Korea mode and just bum rushing to as many Holy Sites I could grab to reform and get myself the Holy Order, you'll need them cause with SoA you'll get Jihads very early. Once you've reformed and beaten off the Jihads though the game becomes far more manageable with Spain being easy pickings. What's really impressive though is that I've seen the AI reform West African, twice.
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Sep 9, 2014 21:43
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Strudel Man posted:Is that actually true for the concubines? I thought the lower-fertility effect was specific to the divine marriage, and so concubines would have normal fertility and also normal inbred chance. I don't know for certain, but just anecdotally I had a hell of a time trying to actually get kids that way in my last Zoroastrian game, when no other traits would have indicated so. Might just a particularly bad streak of RNG, though, so double-check.
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Sep 9, 2014 22:21
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Most kickass old lady ever. And I did manage to invite her to my court. And Im playing aa mod that allows me to put woman in council and leading armies 
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Sep 10, 2014 00:45
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Bel Monte posted:I've just started a game where, as the republic of Amalfi, I sweared fealty to the pope. I'm slowly conquering territory in his name (because he won't do anything against his neighbors). The goal is to have the papacy be a very large power and possibly mess up in game mechanics in the process. This is going to be fun! I'm also playing an Amalfi game where the Pope just declared war on the Queen of Italy and took Lombardy. So yes, the Pope can gently caress up poo poo in his own name.
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Sep 10, 2014 00:58
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Fintilgin posted:I'm guessing it's that the actual heir is elective from amongst your kids? Maybe voted on by the dukes and other title holders. So you don't know if your first born is going to get the crown or one of the younger kids. I'm currently guessing that the heirs to your top-level titles are decided electively by your vassals, while your remaining titles are divided by gavelkind, and possibly--since it's meant to be worse than gavelkind--your vassals will prefer to elect people other than your children to the primary titles, possibly even preferring landholding vassals. This way if you have multiple children, you are likely to see their inheritances actually get divided as they all end up with the same title rank, and you end up as your eldest son under some other dickbag from outside your dynasty who got elected. Additional ultradick moves that I don't think they'd put in but I think are worth considering would be automatically granting (with no prestige gain or gold loss) all possible creatable de jure titles in your realm to your ruler instantly upon death, so that you can't get around the mechanics of gavelkind by ensuring you have only one of each title; and allowing your vassals to elect nobody high king if you are at minimum crown authority, destroying the kingdom title and leaving everyone independent. It would reflect why places like, say, Ireland could elect high kings periodically, but there was not necessarily any expectation that having a high king meant there was now a Kingdom of Ireland as a permenant thing. Reveilled fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 01:05
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I think I saw something when they announced elective gavelkind that vassals who don't like the new liege would have an option to declare independence, possibly without a war.
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Sep 10, 2014 01:11
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KOraithER posted:I think I saw something when they announced elective gavelkind that vassals who don't like the new liege would have an option to declare independence, possibly without a war. And lo and behold, the shittiest loving mechanic in the game just got shittier
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Sep 10, 2014 01:13
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It does seem like they're serious about making it essentially impossible to hold a large empire--maybe even just a large kingdom--together through a succession.
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Sep 10, 2014 01:38
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Funky Valentine posted:And lo and behold, the shittiest loving mechanic in the game just got shittier Gavelkind is largely lovely because it's really hard/impossible (depending on the game's mood at the time) to split things up in a sensible way, so you end up giving away all but one of your capital holdings but retaining some shithole Finnish castle your dad accidentally conquered thirty years previously and never once spent a coin on. If you could actually decide who gets what, and how to split up the kingdom, it'd be much more interesting. Hopefully it gets fixed one way or another, because if so it and E-G would be far better mechanics that influence play, rather than just lovely things to get out of ASAP (to the point where reforming your pagan faith is usually Objective One solely to switch out of it).
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Sep 10, 2014 02:26
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Or you can just convert to christianity and never bother with Gavelkind again.
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Sep 10, 2014 02:40
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