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Vagrancy posted:Google Wallet was secure element based in both the first version which directly stored the card tokens as well as the second version where the proxy card was stored in the element instead. Google's problem was ISIS/Softcard carriers were blocking it on that basis (because they wanted to use the secure element themselves and it only supports 1). It was only after being unable to overcome that roadblock that Google transitioned over to the third (current) version based on host card emulation, introduced in 4.4. Wasn't the secure element in question the carrier's though? I don't know how Verizon did it but on AT&T and T-Mobile the secure element is on the SIM. Apple has put the secure element on the processor and apparently gotten the banks to certify it as secure. I think this is more a vertical integration thing with Apple controlling the hardware and the software completely. A phone manufacture could probably put in it's own secure element and get it certified by the banks bypassing the carriers but at is an awful lot of work just to piss off the carriers, Google is probably in a better place to bypass the carrier's with a payment solution but then they probably don't have enough control over the hardware to get it certified as a secure element. Maybe we will see a mobile payment system by Qualcomm? Surely they have had enough forethought to put a secure element in the Snapdraggons.
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Sep 10, 2014 13:58
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Factory posted:Finally, what carrier does apple usually use for shipping in the US? It's going to be my first time not just going in store. Everything I've ever gotten from Apple has shipped via FedEx, which is great for me because the local depot is like a mile from my apartment.
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Sep 10, 2014 14:01
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Josh Lyman posted:I have a few things to say about the physical dimensions: Just a few replies to this: 1) Side bezels aren't a problem. Like you say, small ones on the side are definitely preferable to literally edge-to-edge display. 2) It is comparing apples to apples because with software buttons, they can disappear when appropriate. When watching a movie, playing a game, reading a book, etc., apps can enter "immersive mode" where the navigation keys (and status bar) disappear until you tap the screen or swipe up from the bottom or some other method. This is great because then you get the benefits of a big screen when they're benefits (watching movies, playing games), but get a slightly smaller, more manageable effective screen size otherwise. This plus small bezels can get you a nice comfortable phone that nevertheless has a big display (compare Moto X 2013 with iPhone 6, both have 4.7" display that can be fully used for movies, games, etc.). Also, as probably many others have said, nav buttons at the bottom of a big Android are a lot more usable one handed than a similarly sized iPhone that will have a software back button in most apps in the top left. The pain with using a big phone one handed (right handed) is exactly that you can't reach the top left quadrant easily. 3) I think you're right but I also agree with you that from my point of view, symmetrical top/bottom just isn't necessary. 4) I don't know why Apple and everyone else prioritizes thinness so much. Once it is thin enough, and I think we're past that point, having a few extra mm thickness could allow for a much larger battery, or a better camera/OIS in the iPhone 6. It's silly and I think just about everyone would prefer a very slightly thicker phone with those sorts of tangible improvements. sourdough fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 14:11
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 Don't know why I should still be surprised by this sort of reaction, but I am.
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Sep 10, 2014 14:28
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Durzel posted:
How much of that, though, is more a factor of the passage of a year in the tech world? Is the Note 4 being called absurdly big?
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Sep 10, 2014 14:29
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RVProfootballer posted:4) I don't know why Apple and everyone else prioritizes thinness so much. Once it is thin enough, and I think we're past that point, having a few extra mm thickness could allow for a much larger battery, or a better camera/OIS in the iPhone 6. It's silly and I think just about everyone would prefer a very slightly thicker phone with those sorts of tangible improvements. I was lamenting the thickness of the Moto X, but holding my Note I realised that there's a curved gap between the phone and my palm, which the contour of the Moto X seems to fit perfectly. I feel like the thinner phones get, the more uncomfortable they may end up being. The iPhone 3G was great to hold, but I don't know if that was due to the fatness or that it was just a small phone.
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Sep 10, 2014 14:30
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Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:How much of that, though, is more a factor of the passage of a year in the tech world? Is the Note 4 being called absurdly big? And did the same person write both articles? ( You'll post it's Josh T for both and I'll laugh and say "of course it is". )
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Sep 10, 2014 14:32
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ijyt posted:I was lamenting the thickness of the Moto X, but holding my Note I realised that there's a curved gap between the phone and my palm, which the contour of the Moto X seems to fit perfectly. I feel like the thinner phones get, the more uncomfortable they may end up being. The iPhone3G/S was way too slipperly. It was a nice contour, but man was it hard to hold on to and use standing. I dropped it a ton on the subway.
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Sep 10, 2014 14:33
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I'm pretty dissapointed that the watch doesn't have the same calorie monitoring capabilities as the BodyMedia products. It seems to be just a pedometer. Which is just 
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Sep 10, 2014 14:33
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Xabi posted:Who are these people that have been complaining about the iphone being too small anyway? I've never met any but I guess they write some cool blogs or something? Me. I used iPhones up until the 4 and switched to palm when the Pre came out, and used different Pres until the line was discontinued. Then I started using Android phones and the size of some of those android phones was just perfect. I had a Nexus 4 and then an HTC One (M7). I thought the HTC One (M7) was perfectly sized. I switched back to Apple for the 5S because it just made sense for my whole home media system which is powered by Apple TV and airplay, and really miss the bigger size. I am very glad the base 6 is going to be the same size as the HTC One (M7) and will be picking one up on day one. GutBomb fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 14:33
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SIR FAT JONY IVES posted:The iPhone3G/S was way too slipperly. It was a nice contour, but man was it hard to hold on to and use standing. I dropped it a ton on the subway. I don't remember this ever happening to me. I guess some people just have sweatier hands.
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Sep 10, 2014 14:34
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Ziploc posted:I'm pretty dissapointed that the watch doesn't have the same calorie monitoring capabilities as the BodyMedia products. It seems to be just a pedometer. Which is just In one of the videos it showed that it tracks calories burned, is that what you're talking about?
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Sep 10, 2014 14:34
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Ziploc posted:I'm pretty dissapointed that the watch doesn't have the same calorie monitoring capabilities as the BodyMedia products. It seems to be just a pedometer. Which is just It can use the heart rate monitor sensors for calorie monitoring too can't it?
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Sep 10, 2014 14:35
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The new iPhones will only be demo-able on the 19th, right? Would have loved to get a feel for it before pre-orders go live.
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Sep 10, 2014 14:39
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ijyt posted:The new iPhones will only be demo-able on the 19th, right? Would have loved to get a feel for it before pre-orders go live. Preorder begins 9/12/14 (this Friday) the phone goes on sale @ retail locations/available for pickup on 9/19.
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Sep 10, 2014 14:49
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ijyt posted:I don't remember this ever happening to me. I guess some people just have sweatier hands. I don't have sweaty hands at all. I think the moisture of sweat would help it stay in place, actually.
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Sep 10, 2014 14:50
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I want a bigger phone just to give me more space for the space bar. My odds of hitting that thing successfully are probably 50%.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:18
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People with Andre the Giant sized hands are going to be real happy with the 6+ 
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Sep 10, 2014 15:20
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smackfu posted:I want a bigger phone just to give me more space for the space bar. My odds of hitting that thing successfully are probably 50%. iOS 8 will let you switch to a better keyboard, too.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:22
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Three Olives posted:Wasn't the secure element in question the carrier's though? I don't know how Verizon did it but on AT&T and T-Mobile the secure element is on the SIM. Apple has put the secure element on the processor and apparently gotten the banks to certify it as secure. No it definitely done on the hardware, which is why it was why it was newsworthy that Google's Nexus 7 2013 had NFC yet didn't ship with a secure element. It really isn't any more complicated than Google Wallet not even getting the chance to fail because of its imposed limited distribution, which fed into a self reinforcing loop where its impossible to negotiate integrations/gain traction without any users.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:26
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Mister Fister posted:People with Andre the Giant sized hands are going to be real happy with the 6+ Now we know who was behind all those angry blog posts demanding huge phones... 
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Sep 10, 2014 15:26
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Re: Do people wat the larger phones? I work in an office that is mostly Apple people, and they are all thankful for the larger screens, with the exception of one or two. There's even an Android person who is switching over to the iPhone 6+ because of it's large size. It would have been nicer if the small model was closer to an old iPhone size and the larger was the size of/a bit larger than a Galaxy phone.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:34
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Militree posted:It would have been nicer if the small model was closer to an old iPhone size and the larger was the size of/a bit larger than a Galaxy phone. Yeah I definitely agree with this. a 4.3 and 5 inch would probably have been the sweet spot.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:36
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Vagrancy posted:No it definitely done on the hardware, which is why it was why it was newsworthy that Google's Nexus 7 2013 had NFC yet didn't ship with a secure element. Where in the hardware? The Isis/Softcard secure element is definitely in the SIM card, they have had an iPhone 5 NFC case for a while now which oddly uses it's own SIM card just for the secure element. Then today this came out: Softcard posted:any device, anywhere with any card. To deliver on that promise, we selected NFC as the best technology that was secure, simple and open to innovation. Which is probably dead in the water even if they can get Citi, Capital One and Bank of America on board which they haven't so far. I'm not saying that Google doesn't have another secure element in the Nexus hardware but what the carriers blocked Google out of is the SIM card's secure element which the banks have certified.
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Sep 10, 2014 15:41
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Thanks, this is personally a useful comparison since I know what it's like to have a phone plus a DS in pocket. Obviously it wouldn't be the same since they're thinner, but it's nice to have an idea.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:03
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Another Brit who uses NFC payments all the time and it's great. Seriously great. There's tons of places nearby that use it, and it's generally a case of * Shop doesn't accept NFC? If I have cash, I'll use it, card if I don't. * Shop accepts NFC? Regardless of if I have cash on me, I'll use NFC. It's faster, I don't have to worry about the cashier loving up my change and it means I've got cash on me for when I truly need it. The iPhone implementation looks even better, because I can run to the shop without my wallet and still pay without issue. It also adds that extra layer of security with Touch ID which NFC is sorely lacking. Apparently you should get asked for your PIN every so often, but I've used my card tons and tons of times and I only ever got PIN requested once about a year ago. Also I believe there's a limit here on NFC to small payments of around £20 and you can't do cash back with it, with the iPhone implementation I can't see this being an issue. It's good. Also, people from the US have a nightmare in this country because our 16 year old cashiers don't know mag strip/signature stuff and it takes about 10 minutes for them to get a payment put through and it pisses everyone in line off. Problem solved. But oh god, I wasn't happy with the iPhone 4S -> 5 shift in size, now the smallest new phone is the size of my girlfriends Samsung SIII? It's too big. The only people I've ever seen deriding the iPhone over it's size are Android users desperate to find something to point out that we don't have. The 5S is as big as I'd ever want, if they'd made the screen bigger but only changed the bezels not the unit size that'd be acceptable. Why have they loving done this.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:05
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Three Olives posted:Where in the hardware? The Isis/Softcard secure element is definitely in the SIM card, they have had an iPhone 5 NFC case for a while now which oddly uses it's own SIM card just for the secure element. Then today this came out The ISIS secure element is in the SIM because it's the part of the chain the carriers control for sure, and they didn't want to lose control and whatever revenue stream that could be skimmed off it. ISIS and the carriers did not have the keys to write data to the secure element built into the Nexus devices, which is why they blocked Wallet. Google didn't even have access themselves. There's a delegated third party, which in Google Wallet's case was First Data, who basically acted as the gatekeeper to writing data to the secure element. When you added a card to Google Wallet, First Data signed/encrypted a payload that was sent to your phone and installed on the secure element. Only they could sign things to be written to that chip, and the secure element was pretty much hardwired straight to the NFC antenna so no software running on the application processor could skim what was being sent to a credit card terminal. Apple has the clout to tell the carriers to go piss up a rope, we control the hardware secure element and you're going to like it. kitten smoothie fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 16:08
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Durzel posted:
I sort of feel this way about the watch too. It's just a slightly improved Samsung watch, but the tech industry is proclaiming it to be the second coming. I'm not one to bitch about the Apple bias in media, but the stuff they just released doesn't seem innovative in the same way that the iPad is/was. I'm sort of underwhelmed in general, I guess; or maybe I'm just an old person now that I turned 30 and care more about checking my loving email and accessing documents than I do about customizing the clock face on my watch.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:10
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maduin posted:I sort of feel this way about the watch too. It's just a slightly improved Samsung watch, but the tech industry is proclaiming it to be the second coming. I'm not one to bitch about the Apple bias in media, but the stuff they just released doesn't seem innovative in the same way that the iPad is/was. Lots of people on this forum thought the iPad was retarded after it was announced. It turned out to be way better than lots of people imagined. This may not be the case with the apple watch, but it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happened once people get their hands on them and see what they can do, and what uses third parties come up with once they do too.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:14
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Suqit posted:Lots of people on this forum thought the iPad was retarded after it was announced. It turned out to be way better than lots of people imagined. This may not be the case with the apple watch, but it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happened once people get their hands on them and see what they can do, and what uses third parties come up with once they do too. Apple's had failures before. Anyone come to the defense of Ping?
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Sep 10, 2014 16:17
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Suqit posted:Lots of people on this forum thought the iPad was retarded after it was announced. It turned out to be way better than lots of people imagined. This may not be the case with the apple watch, but it wouldn't surprise me if the same thing happened once people get their hands on them and see what they can do, and what uses third parties come up with once they do too. I'm still of the mind that the market they are pushing hard (health and fitness) is going to completely reject this product simply because the watch does not do what it needs to do without a tether to an iphone. I'm a runner and if I'm training there is zero reason for me to carry both an iwatch and an iphone to run when the RunKeeper app on the iphone will do everything I need it to do. On top of the fact the iwatch might not be sweat/water resistant just is icing on the poo poo cake for reasons why I wouldn't carry it.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:18
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maduin posted:I sort of feel this way about the watch too. It's just a slightly improved Samsung watch, but the tech industry is proclaiming it to be the second coming. I'm not one to bitch about the Apple bias in media, but the stuff they just released doesn't seem innovative in the same way that the iPad is/was. Eh, a lot of it is going to be about how it feels in the hand too. Like, even though I moaned about it being the size of an SIII in my post above, I know it's going to feel better because the SIII is cheap and nasty to hold. Also are the two quotes attributed to the same person? I'm mainly moaning because I have the hands of a literal child despite being a dude in my 30s, if I wanted one of the watches (I don't), I'd undoubtedly be going for the smaller one.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:19
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Suqit posted:Lots of people on this forum thought the iPad was retarded after it was announced. The first gen iPad was retarded. (No camera on a device pretty much built for FaceTime/Skype?) It was the 2nd and 3rd gen models that changed a lot of minds on them. Presumably it'll be similar with the Apple Watch. The first generation watch looks pretty bad. But there is potential and while I don't want one now I'm reluctant to rule it out a generation or two down the road.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:21
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Edit: oops, double post
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Sep 10, 2014 16:21
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It must partly also be this buildup of hype that really translated into something that is very much "meh". People have an expectation of Apple products, and until people who aren't Apple employees get their hands on it you can still more or less apply your high expectations on the device. That said, Apple definitely gets more leeway when it comes to many things, because they strongly believe that the company's attention to detail must translate into something that is amazing, and they carry this belief all the way when actually using the device. Not saying that the products are generally pretty drat good, because they are. But if Apple stumbles, people are more likely to try to help it back up instead of sitting there laughing.JazzFlight posted:This feels like a tired defense that could be used for any new Apple product, though. It's a tired defense that unfortunately still works. People will buy it, and people will love it. Whether the love is deserved or not is usually not a factor (remember people on twitter were raving about the amazing apple maps). They will just improve it with each iteration, and the people who already love it will continue to buy, and the people who didn't will slowly warm up to it as it gets incrementally better. e. other than the 1st gen ipad, remember the 1st gen macbook air? that design was pants on head retarded in everyway, but now several generations down it's the laptop everybody and their cousin purchases.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:21
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It is silly how much effort journalists are putting into downplaying the size of the iPhone 6 Plus. I don't know why I expected different, but I guess I did.the verge posted:First off, it's much smaller in the hand than I expected — the thinness really helps here. And the screen is just stunning; it looks more like you're touching pixels than ever before, and the rounded edges make it somewhat easier to hold. I have big hands and can reach across the the entire display with my thumb one-handed, though, so I'll have to ask someone with smaller hands here what they think. I'm especially curious about the double-tap on the home button that slides the interface down to make one-handed operation easier; I'll never use it since I don't have to, but it's a unique riff on the idea of one-handed operation.  Really now? You're going to tell me you can naturally hold the thing, where your thumb can use the keyboard and hit the home button, and you think you'll be able to hit the "< Sean" with your thumb? Come ooonnnn. It's big as hell and will be no more one-handable than any stupidly big Android.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:22
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BGrifter posted:The first gen iPad was retarded. (No camera on a device pretty much built for FaceTime/Skype?) It was the 2nd and 3rd gen models that changed a lot of minds on them. Presumably it'll be similar with the Apple Watch. I still have and my daughter still uses my first gen iPad every single day.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:23
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EL BROMANCE posted:But oh god, I wasn't happy with the iPhone 4S -> 5 shift in size, now the smallest new phone is the size of my girlfriends Samsung SIII? It's too big. The only people I've ever seen deriding the iPhone over it's size are Android users desperate to find something to point out that we don't have. The 5S is as big as I'd ever want, if they'd made the screen bigger but only changed the bezels not the unit size that'd be acceptable. Why have they loving done this. I'd imagine if you look at the sales of the Galaxy line you'd probably have an answer. They make a Mini that's roughly the same size as the iPhone 5, but it's way outsold by the base model, Note, and Mega versions. It wouldn't surprise me if the 6S generation includes a Mini, but right now the 5S seems to be the stand-in for a smaller 6.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:24
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BGrifter posted:Now we know who was behind all those angry blog posts demanding huge phones... I have a long spindly 6'9" friend who was overjoyed when the Note was released and he finally had a phone that fit his hands.
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Sep 10, 2014 16:24
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RVProfootballer posted:It is silly how much effort journalists are putting into downplaying the size of the iPhone 6 Plus. I don't know why I expected different, but I guess I did. Apparently you can double tap the home button to bring that <Sean to the bottom
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Sep 10, 2014 16:24
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