|
Popular Thug Drink posted:So rather than answer an uncomfortable question, you'd rather literally interpret a metaphorical statement and ding me for it? That would still fall under Chaplinsky since it is a direct threat to a person. You could say that all wives should be killed, that'd be fine. But if you said that all wives should be killed tonight with a kitchen knife that'd be incitement. It's tricky.
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:34 |
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:You're totally free to yell fire in a theater, actually. Good job picking a line from a court case that imprisoned someone who protested the draft. An excellent argument against proscribed speech categories.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:13
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:Seriously? Whenever the limitations of the first amendment were explained to me in school or whatever the fire in the theater example comes up. Is that just a myth? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States (Making it a less than stellar first amendment example)
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:17
|
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:You're totally free to yell fire in a theater, actually. Good job picking a line from a court case that imprisoned someone who protested the draft. An excellent argument against proscribed speech categories.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:26
|
|
|
SquadronROE posted:Is there a thread about the recent Penn State stuff? I'm really interested to read more about the arguments people are hearing. Let me sum it up for you: Penn State students and alum: The NCAA overstepped their authority  Everyone else:  Penn State should've gotten the death penalty. Cheekio posted:Probably the most amazing racist thing I've heard. He doesn't have a problem with black voting, it's that he thinks black voting should be done in moderation. Maybe three out of every five black votes should count, or some such. No no no, he wants educated voting and not just massed of dumb blacks voting because since they're dirty and uneducated they're going to vote for Democrats. He's clearly concerned that those people are just being tricked by democrats because they're too stupid to vote for the GOP! 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:35
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:
This is just like those internet weirdos who say people should have a minimum IQ to vote because then obviously they'd vote correctly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:46
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:Let me sum it up for you: poo poo like this just makes me think "Why not lie cheat and steal your way to the top? It's not like anyone will care!" Unless, apparently, you're a pro baller who smacks his wife. Oh, THEN poo poo is on.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:49
|
|
|
Sir Tonk posted:And besides, it's never been about justice and/or preventing more death. All they care about is making Clinton look bad. Right. This is why every death under Bush's watch was just accepted as The Price Of Freedom.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:53
|
|
|
Unzip and Attack posted:Right. This is why every death under Bush's watch was just accepted as The Price Of Freedom. Who's watch? I don't remember anyone by that name being in office since the late eighties/early nineties, and possibly not even then depending.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:58
|
|
|
Captain_Maclaine posted:Who's watch? I don't remember anyone by that name being in office since the late eighties/early nineties, and possibly not even then depending.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 18:59
|
|
|
Samurai Sanders posted:Seriously? Whenever the limitations of the first amendment were explained to me in school or whatever the fire in the theater example comes up. Is that just a myth? Yeah, I was really surprised too. It's just an annoying meme now. JT Jag posted:You're totally free to yell fire in a theater. And the owner of the theater is totally free to kick you out for it. And people are totally free to bring you to court if they get hurt because of it. The owner's free to kick you out because he doesn't like your tie, so that's a bad example. Nor is that a hate speech conviction. If you yell fire, openly admit to doing it falsely, and someone got trampled, *then* you can be on the hook. The analogy doesn't really work anyway. Saying gays are evil is an ethical judgment, not an objectively verifiable is there a fire yes/no. If you honestly had reason to believe there was a fire, you should be safe from charges. Just like if you honestly believe gays are the worst and loudly say so. DeusExMachinima fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:01
|
|
This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
|
FilthyImp posted:Wow. Yeah everyone who's rich and powerful came to this decision a while ago.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:02
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:Let me sum it up for you: Agreed, the NCAA is such a callow organization. Their reasoning can be summed up as follows: "you provided illegal inducements by paying your players in cash/tatoos/other benefits? Off with your head!" "Penn State, you systematically covered up child abuse for years and continued to employ a known rapist for years, allowing him to abuse more minors? Well, as long as all those people are gone and you're really and truly sorry you can come out of timeout, because we value your schools football tradition sooo much." Which ignores the fact that any other time a school is put on probation for the typical activities that get probation leveled (paying players) all the coaches and athletic directors are typically fired, but the school and the athletic department have to serve the remaining probation regardless. It's a double standard that shows how disingenuous the whole system is at it's roots.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:The analogy doesn't really work anyway. Saying gays are evil is an ethical judgment, not an objectively verifiable is there a fire yes/no. If you honestly had reason to believe there was a fire, you should be safe from charges. Just like if you honestly believe gays are the worst and loudly say so. OK so how about something like 'all gays are pedophiles and letting them near children is child endangerment'? That's objectively false but also something a lot of people honestly believe.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:14
|
|
|
It's because the NCAA cares way more about keeping your players unpaid than it does about rape victims Also, hate speech laws sound great. American of obsessed with positive freedom though, so we can't have nice things
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:16
|
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:"Hate speech has caused folks to kill themselves" and "don't respond to words with censorship" aren't mutually exclusive views. All right then. Enlighten me here. Kids are being driven to suicide by hate speech, literally hounded into death with words. How do you solve it? How do you stop kids from being made so miserable by this speech that death seems a preferable alternative than living even one second longer? Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how standing up and loudly proclaiming that "Nono, it's cool, these people have a right to torment you" is the solution here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:20
|
|
|
twodot posted:Fire in a theater. JT Jag posted:Fire in a theater. See, this is why I don't go to theaters much anymore and just wait for that poo poo on Netflix or OnDemand. I can drink beer, get high, pause that poo poo when I take a whiz, make my own popcorn and all sorts of things. What does the first amendment say about using your dumb, stupid smart phone in theaters and texting/chatting while I'm trying to watch a movie?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
I just really don't understand how football can be that overarching. I mean, it's a game. The team isn't even comprised of people who are local, as they are scholarships handed out to kids from other states. I live in the South and the football culture here is massive, and baffling. There are people supporting teams for schools they didn't even go to.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:24
|
|
|
TLM3101 posted:All right then. Enlighten me here. Kids are being driven to suicide by hate speech, literally hounded into death with words. How do you solve it? How do you stop kids from being made so miserable by this speech that death seems a preferable alternative than living even one second longer? Once again "rights" are just window dressing used by people to justify the fact that gay kids dying/women internalizing self-loathing/black people losing confidence is a feature, not a bug. They want those 13 year olds to kill themselves. God that article made me tear up. I'm at work, poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:27
|
|
|
SquadronROE posted:I just really don't understand how football can be that overarching. I mean, it's a game. The team isn't even comprised of people who are local, as they are scholarships handed out to kids from other states. It's among the less harmful (but still very harmful) expressions of "my tribe is good, the Others are evil and must be destroyed!" which seems to be a pretty attractive proposition to humans. And to America's credit, football riots in America are way, way less common than soccer riots elsewhere, so the violence is only slowly corrupting and destroying rather than immediate. See also: all of American politics. Also football is fun to watch, and way more fun if you have a team to care about.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:45
|
|
|
berzerker posted:It's among the less harmful (but still very harmful) expressions of "my tribe is good, the Others are evil and must be destroyed!" which seems to be a pretty attractive proposition to humans. And to America's credit, football riots in America are way, way less common than soccer riots elsewhere, so the violence is only slowly corrupting and destroying rather than immediate. Love me some commercials- before, during, between plays, after, during the play reviews, and replays of past games.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 19:51
|
|
|
Anyone see this poll that has the GOP up 38(!!!!!) points up in who people trust to handle national defense? What the loving gently caress? http://hotair.com/archives/2014/09/10/more-nbcwsj-poll-gop-takes-edge-on-top-issues/
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:Anyone see this poll that has the GOP up 38(!!!!!) points up in who people trust to handle national defense? What the loving gently caress? The average American is pretty significantly dumb, ignorant or some mix of both.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
The GOP's narrative is that they are the party that's good on national defense and economics. It doesn't matter that they are terrible at both of those things since half the media just parrots their talking points verbatim and the other half is too chicken poo poo to not just claim the truth is in the middle and both sides are equal.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 20:07
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:The fact that people trust Republicans +10 on the economy is even more baffling to me. The results of the American experiment is probably one of the better refutations against democracy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 20:11
|
|
|
Radish posted:The GOP's narrative is that they are the party that's good on national defense and economics. It doesn't matter that they are terrible at both of those things since half the media just parrots their talking points verbatim and the other half is too chicken poo poo to not just claim the truth is in the middle and both sides are equal. Seriously, no matter what they actually do, Republicans are good on the economy and national defense in the minds of Americans, because Democrats are chicken poo poo doves and will take all your money and give it to In today's QU poll of our state's governor race, the Republican running has a 54-37 lead on perception to handle the economy better and 59-31 favorability in taxes..... .......This is a candidate who went to a closing paper mill and told the workers its their fault they're being laid off and has categorically refused to give any specifics on how he'd afford the tax cuts and freezing spend he keeps parroting out(actually for that matter he's categorically refused to offer specifics on anything, saying he'll rely on experts)
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 20:11
|
|
|
Tight Booty Shorts posted:Love me some commercials- before, during, between plays, after, during the play reviews, and replays of past games. God drat, this. I really used to enjoy watching football but the commercials are just getting to be too loving much and way too frequent. Mostly, I fall asleep watching it. Kick off *commercial* Guy gets hurt *commercial* Touchdown *commercial* Extra point *commercial* Kickoff *commercial* 3 and out then punt *commercial* Turnover *commercial* Review *commercial* Golf is more exciting. It's a miracle that I still hate Miller Lite and Bud Light, have never owned a Chevy, a Ford or a Dodge truck and have never gotten into fantasy football leagues so maybe I have a natural ability to avoid the power of advertising. Anymore, I just watch NFL Gameday or ESPN and watch the highlights to stay caught up. What this has to do with US Politics I have no idea but I'm sure it fits in somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 20:18
|
|
|
Alter Ego posted:Has anyone pointed out to Cruz that SNL was making fun of political campaigns long before Citizens United? Or that the guy who does all the political material on SNL is a Republican?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
TLM3101 posted:All right then. Enlighten me here. Kids are being driven to suicide by hate speech, literally hounded into death with words. How do you solve it? How do you stop kids from being made so miserable by this speech that death seems a preferable alternative than living even one second longer? Sometimes people have to die and it's a tragedy but we'd lose freedoms we have now and we might turn into a dictatorship it's like a sacrifice you give say Trayvon Martin for maximum gun rights freedom or if statistics are right 1 in 4 women being raped or sexually assaulted for instance it will never be straight white dudes unless they're poor Raskolnikov38 posted:The results of the American experiment is probably one of the better refutations against democracy. Politicians in the US look at Russia and China with envy,they do not like this democracy or republic poo poo you can tell.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 20:45
|
|
|
comes along bort posted:Or that the guy who does all the political material on SNL is a Republican?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 20:46
|
|
|
JT Jag posted:The fact that people trust Republicans +10 on the economy is even more baffling to me. The average American has absolutely no loving clue how the economy actually works beyond a passing understanding of the Macroeconomics 101 level. They still think that the federal budget works like a household budget, and that debt is bad, even after the debt ceiling fiasco. Hell, most Americans don't understand how tax brackets actually work, or just how ridiculously and astronomically rich people like Adelson or the Kochs are, or even who they are. The average American thinks saying that you're "fiscally conservative" means you think we should be smart about how the government spends its money instead of being code for "I don't have any idea how the economy or fiscal policy works".
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 20:48
|
|
|
Raskolnikov38 posted:The results of the American experiment is probably one of the better refutations against democracy. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 21:10
|
|
|
The average American is too busy trying to make ends meet to give a poo poo about politics. Knowing policy matters at more than a general level is a bourgeois affection for most. People aren't stupid. They are busy, apathetic, and have been carefully groomed and lied to by one of the most effective propaganda machines in history. Assuming you are smarter than the public is liberal as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 21:11
|
|
|
zamin posted:Hell, most Americans don't understand how tax brackets actually work, . Oof, I encountered this in the wild a little while ago. Smart lady, retired cop, absolutely refused to believe that the tiny raise we're getting won't cost her money overall because of tax brackets. It was completely bizarre because she asked me to explain and I diagrammed it and she still didn't believe me.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 21:11
|
|
|
Because I totally wasn't even a little facetious writing that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 21:12
|
|
|
Zeitgueist posted:The average American is too busy trying to make ends meet to give a poo poo about politics. Knowing policy matters at more than a general level is a bourgeois affection for most. In my case it's true though.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 21:13
|
|
|
made of bees posted:OK so how about something like 'all gays are pedophiles and letting them near children is child endangerment'? That's objectively false but also something a lot of people honestly believe. TLM3101 posted:All right then. Enlighten me here. Kids are being driven to suicide by hate speech, literally hounded into death with words. How do you solve it? How do you stop kids from being made so miserable by this speech that death seems a preferable alternative than living even one second longer? Already covered this and so has the legal system. If it's sincere it's A-OK. Only a threat of violence justifies such a response, ever. And yeah, I have been on a seriously bad receiving end of this before you talk about my inability to understand. The solution to bad speech is more speech, since you asked. Xibanya posted:Once again "rights" are just window dressing used by people to justify the fact that gay kids dying/women internalizing self-loathing/black people losing confidence is a feature, not a bug. You're late to the party. Everyone else knew I was a fatshamer racist ever since I went to the right of Leon Trotsky. Jinx!
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 21:18
|
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:Already covered this and so has the legal system. If it's sincere it's A-OK. Only a threat of violence justifies such a response, ever. And yeah, I have been on a seriously bad receiving end of this before you talk about privilege. So as long as you are sincere about hating gay people it is already to drive gay teens to suicide. That may be the most lovely opinion I've ever read, and on D&D that is saying a lot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 21:20
|
|
|
zoux posted:In my case it's true though. Well yeah, individual members of the public can be stupid, but we try not to talk about you using names.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 21:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:34 |
|
|
DeusExMachinima posted:The solution to bad speech is more speech, since you asked. That's a fine solution when both speakers have equal power and institutional privilege. But then again, are you against US libel laws?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2014 21:26
|
|
