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Endorph posted:Really the WoR has way more character dialogue/interaction than the WoB, but that isn't saying much. That just isn't FF6's strong suit. I don't know how you can think this. Terra was such a important character in the first half. In the second half, she has only a few lines of dialogue in 2 scenes. No major meaningful interaction with any of the other cast members in the party. (How could she when the game didn't know what characters you would pick for that part?) Same for Locke. He has about 10 lines of dialogue contained in one scene in the WoR. The only character interaction any members of the party have with him is Celes asking "What's up?" That's it after all the story between the two in the first half. How can you not be disappointed by that? It makes me wonder if Square developers were working on WoR one day and then the higher ups just came in and told them Hey guys, the deadline is up, stop what you're doing and turn in what you have. There's no group interaction between all the members of the party once you have more than four characters. But how could there be when the game didn't know what characters you recruited and which characters you're using? I realize there's not that much in the WoB, however the moments they did have were nice. Not having it at all was disappointing. If WoR was more like the first half, I could easily see it being one of the best RPGs ever. Wouldn't it have been fantastic if they did another character split in the WoR? First you control Celes, Edgar, and Sabin. Then you control another three characters somewhere else in the world. Then another three. Then they all meet up at the end. Locke, Strago, and Cyan for example. Imagine what adventures they could have. ImpAtom posted:Huh? Almost every major character gets plot and development in the second half of FFVI. It is just based around their own story instead of them being party members. Which is how it is in the first half too. You don't get Edgar and Sabin's plot unless you bring them along, you don't get Locke's plot unless you visit a certain place, ect. Required character plot development in FFVI is limited to like Celes and Terra and maybe Locke aside from that one section where everyone splits up. Those little stories for each character are so disconnected from everything else. Even from the rest of the cast. Characters are given one moment and then tossed aside never to be discussed again. There were parts like that in the WoB, but there were also like you said, the branching stories part, in fact the whole beginning up to the point where Terra flies away, the part where Locke and Celes go to the Opera House, the part where Terra, Locke, and Shadow go to Thamesa and meet Strago and Relm. All my favorite parts of the game. WoB required you to have to certain members most of the time. And when they weren't, major world events were still happening such as the Empire making a truce. In WoR, the villain just sits in a tower the whole time. There's no sense of urgency. You don't even have a secondary villain like Ultros being a nuisance. You're just going around collecting characters. Since it's optional, you know nothing you find will have implications other than for that one character. You know characters in your party won't react to that character's story in any meaningful way.
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Sep 14, 2014 21:23
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Since it's optional, you know nothing you find will have implications other than for that one character. You know characters in your party won't react to that character's story in any meaningful way. Except they do? Like, it's specifically structured so this can happen. Not every character reacts to every scene but that would be silly. Celes is there to react to Locke, Cyan is there to react to Gau, Relm and Strago obviously are there for each other, Sabin will have reactions to Edgar if you've recruited him beforehand... like the stuff you're claiming isn't true. Edit: Also, honestly, you're not wrong about 'characters are there for their plot and kinda ignored otherwise' but that applies to the bulk of Final Fantasy games. It's something I'd prefer to be fixed but it isn't exclusive to FFVI at all. It even shows up in FFIV which has a set cast and super-linear progression, let alone the later games. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 22:54
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ImpAtom posted:Except they do? Like, it's specifically structured so this can happen. Not every character reacts to every scene but that would be silly. Celes is there to react to Locke, Cyan is there to react to Gau, Relm and Strago obviously are there for each other, Sabin will have reactions to Edgar if you've recruited him beforehand... like the stuff you're claiming isn't true. Well, I did say meaningful way. Celes in reacting to Locke just had two lines. One of them was "What's up?" The other is "Locke.." Then they never speak to each again until the ending. Compare that interaction to their interaction in the first half. No one else talks to Locke again either. Cyan has two lines talking about Gau's hat. That is seriously the limit of his interaction with another character in the party in the WoR. I think they clearly made relationships and chemistry of the cast less of a priority in WoR. quote:Edit: I like that FF4's cast are constantly talking to one another. Each of your party members are always reacting to an event in their own way, they're exchanging banter, butting heads with each other, or flirting with each other in the case of Edge and Rydia. FFX did this same thing but x 100. A large part of why it's easily my favorite FF.
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Sep 15, 2014 01:50
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Terranigma good. A goat begs you to eat its dead mate so you can live, then soliloquizes about eat or be eaten. Also the MC is the literal alpha and omega and gets to see most of the stuff in between, like the birth of Simba.   Hes got the whoooole wooo-oorld~ in his hands~
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Sep 15, 2014 05:20
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Nathilus posted:Terranigma good. A goat begs you to eat its dead mate so you can live, then soliloquizes about eat or be eaten.
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Sep 15, 2014 05:24
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How can you talk about the best snes rpgs without mentioning Mario RPG? I realize it's not as weighty as some others but it had some of the most fun gameplay of any game on the system. And the story good goofy fun too.
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Sep 15, 2014 05:30
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Mario RPG is a god damned masterpiece.
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Sep 15, 2014 06:03
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I love Mario RPG but I always kinda go back and forth on just how good it is. I love parts of it but other parts of it are kinda bad. I'll always enjoy it and it's charming as gently caress but the later Mario RPGs really refined the combat system. Not that it's fair to hold Mario RPG to the standards of the things inspired by it, but still. I do miss having three-person parties though, even if it was effectively Mario + Peach + whoever else you wanted due to Mario being require and Peach being busted as hell, especially with the Lazy Shell.
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Sep 15, 2014 06:18
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The later Mario RPGs never clicked with me. Both the world and characters of the original are just really charming and I love the heck outta 'em. Mario and Luigi wandering around the Bean Kingdom just isn't as much fun I don't think. I recognize that nostalgia plays some part in that, but I really do feel like it's missing that charm factor that Square brought to SMRPG. It's such a simple mechanic next to everything else, and I know it's brought up a lot, but I wish more JRPGs had timed attacks like SMRPG did. It had the perfect approach to it too: take advantage of the mechanic if you want, but it's never required.
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Sep 15, 2014 06:32
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The Mario & Luigi series is made by AlphaDream, whereas Paper Mario came from Intelligent Systems (also responsible for Fire Emblem). They're hard to compare directly.
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Sep 15, 2014 06:41
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Bongo Bill posted:The Mario & Luigi series is made by AlphaDream, whereas Paper Mario came from Intelligent Systems (also responsible for Fire Emblem). They're hard to compare directly. Having only played a little of either I'd say Mario & Luigi are more directly Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 06:48
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BloodWulfe posted:The later Mario RPGs never clicked with me. Both the world and characters of the original are just really charming and I love the heck outta 'em. Mario and Luigi wandering around the Bean Kingdom just isn't as much fun I don't think. I recognize that nostalgia plays some part in that, but I really do feel like it's missing that charm factor that Square brought to SMRPG. This may sound crazy, but I personally think the South Park RPG is probably the best homage battle wise to Super Mario RPG. It's all about timing your attacks, and trying to extend yours through silly timing that in all honestly didn't matter.
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Sep 15, 2014 07:01
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Leper Residue posted:This may sound crazy, but I personally think the South Park RPG is probably the best homage battle wise to Super Mario RPG. It's all about timing your attacks, and trying to extend yours through silly timing that in all honestly didn't matter. The South Park game was an intentional homage to Paper Mario. Like straight up. It's even why it has the two-person parties with the swapping in and out because Paper Mario has that.
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Sep 15, 2014 07:02
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It would be a pretty impressive trick for Mario & Luigi to be the "ancestor" of a game that came out eight years previously. Less pedantically, Paper Mario was called Super Mario RPG 2 while in development.
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Sep 15, 2014 07:04
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Bongo Bill posted:It would be a pretty impressive trick for Mario & Luigi to be the "ancestor" of a game that came out eight years previously. Less pedantically, Paper Mario was called Super Mario RPG 2 while in development. I meant descendant, you self described pedant. And Paper Mario is a sequel to SMRPG in the same sense Yoshi's Island is Super Mario World 2 compared to the New Super Mario Series.
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Sep 15, 2014 07:38
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Has anyone ever hacked a non-hardmode version of the US 7th Saga release? I got pretty far in that game even with the US insane difficulty, but it required a shitload of grinding in every area. Soul Blazer does still hold up really well, but I challenge anyone not to spend the entire end segment with "Soul Man" stuck in their head.
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Sep 15, 2014 13:46
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Am I alone in preferring Illusion of Gaia over Terranigma? Wonky translation aside, it just seemed like a much more intimate and well told story.
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Sep 15, 2014 13:48
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Nate RFB posted:Am I alone in preferring Illusion of Gaia over Terranigma? Wonky translation aside, it just seemed like a much more intimate and well told story. From a purely plot perspective? I'd still say that on the whole the story is better presented in Terranigma.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:05
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BloodWulfe posted:It's such a simple mechanic next to everything else, and I know it's brought up a lot, but I wish more JRPGs had timed attacks like SMRPG did. It had the perfect approach to it too: take advantage of the mechanic if you want, but it's never required. I despise this mechanic and it turns me off of playing any turn-based / menu-driven-battle JRPG that has it (most recently Lost Odyssey). It stresses me out and I just want to select an option and know what will happen, not have to do a QTE every time I hit Attack.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:14
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chairface posted:Has anyone ever hacked a non-hardmode version of the US 7th Saga release? I got pretty far in that game even with the US insane difficulty, but it required a shitload of grinding in every area. There's this: http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/264/ - it gives back the normal stat gains from the japanese version making the game a bit easier.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:21
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hubris.height posted:From a purely plot perspective? I'd still say that on the whole the story is better presented in Terranigma.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:21
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BloodWulfe posted:It's such a simple mechanic next to everything else, and I know it's brought up a lot, but I wish more JRPGs had timed attacks like SMRPG did. It had the perfect approach to it too: take advantage of the mechanic if you want, but it's never required. Not that timed attacks matter for too long in that game, since you can pretty quickly start doing ridiculous damage without them.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:30
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Armor-Piercing posted:Coolest Game Final Fantasy VIII has timed attacks, but I will confess that I could never land them consistently with anyone other than Squall. Most of the other characters I could get it with once in a while, but I think with Rinoa I just gave up entirely on trying to figure out the timing. None of the other characters have them. That's the reason why Squall and Seifer both only crit for 150% damage instead of double like everyone else.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:38
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dis astranagant posted:None of the other characters have them. That's the reason why Squall and Seifer both only crit for 150% damage instead of double like everyone else.
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Sep 15, 2014 14:41
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Armor-Piercing posted:That makes me feel a lot better about not being able to pull it off with the other characters, but a lot worse for beating the game twice without somehow noticing that.
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Sep 15, 2014 15:04
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Nate RFB posted:Am I alone in preferring Illusion of Gaia over Terranigma? Wonky translation aside, it just seemed like a much more intimate and well told story. I like the characters and world more in IoG but I feel Terranigma is better told.
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Sep 15, 2014 16:16
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dis astranagant posted:None of the other characters have them. That's the reason why Squall and Seifer both only crit for 150% damage instead of double like everyone else. Oh. Well. Now I feel like a moron.
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Sep 15, 2014 18:06
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BloodWulfe posted:Oh.
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Sep 15, 2014 18:07
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I've started switching up Dawn of the New World with bouts of Tales of Vesperia, as I've never played it before either and wanted to enjoy a good Tales game. Repede is awesome. Why can't more JRPG's have a badass pipe-smoking dog as a party member? 
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Sep 15, 2014 18:21
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Endorph posted:How many times have you played FF8, trying to land timed hits with everyone? Be honest. Only three times, but one of those was just this last year.  R1, R1, R1 What the hell, c'mon! When do I need to trigger this? Is it right when her whip goes CRACK? Ugh Rinoa you're the worst. Maybe if I wait a split second longer next time. 
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Sep 15, 2014 18:29
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BloodWulfe posted:Yeah, I agree. Honestly I think the whole Soul Blazer Trilogy has aged well. No surprise that they got better as the series grew, but even Soul Blazer still feels pretty good mechanically. It'll always be really satisfying to rebuild a town by exploring a dungeon imo. I've just downloaded this and given it a go, maybe I'm missing something but the combat seems really aggressively difficult? The basic attack has no hitstun or knockback so if I don't time my swings and step back perfectly I end up exchanging a hit for hit with the goblin monsters every time, I used my healing herb and still died twice just in the first dungeon. Is there something I'm missing to this or does it pick up soon? Because these are things Zelda 1 got right on the NES ...
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Sep 15, 2014 21:41
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A Steampunk Gent posted:I've just downloaded this and given it a go, maybe I'm missing something but the combat seems really aggressively difficult? The basic attack has no hitstun or knockback so if I don't time my swings and step back perfectly I end up exchanging a hit for hit with the goblin monsters every time, I used my healing herb and still died twice just in the first dungeon. The trick is that your attack's hitbox has some width to it. If you're facing left or right, your swing will hit stuff above and below you (though they still have to be in the weapon's arc); up or down, your swing is wide enough to hit things to your side. Hitting enemies with the end of your swing will also double up on the number of times they take damage. It takes a little getting used to, but you'll be glad that you figured it out: it sounds cheesy, but some of the bosses in that game, man. You'll be glad you mastered the side-swing.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:50
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IIRC you can also hold the attack button to do a goofy 'poke' attack which in a bunch of cases is actually a lot easier to get hits in with without taking damage yourself. Edit: I'm wrong, you actually hold L or R to do it apparently.
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Sep 15, 2014 21:53
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:IIRC you can also hold the attack button to do a goofy 'poke' attack which in a bunch of cases is actually a lot easier to get hits in with without taking damage yourself.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:05
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ImpAtom posted:Edit: FF6 has the legitimate excuse of running into the SNES cart size wall. The relatively low amount of general character development is the result of the devs making a trade-off; significant expansion to character storylines would have necessarily required the removal of other things. Corvinus fucked around with this message at 22:08 on Sep 15, 2014 |
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Sep 15, 2014 22:06
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:IIRC you can also hold the attack button to do a goofy 'poke' attack which in a bunch of cases is actually a lot easier to get hits in with without taking damage yourself. The hero's poke attack has a fixed damage rate. I never found it to be very useful, especially later on when health bars explode in size, but you can take advantage of it by walking backwards while enemies (slowly) impale themselves on your sword. You can use it to quickly strafe too. Mostly you'll want to use White Dragon's advice and smack enemies diagonally from or next to you with your sword arc. You'll always have access to free healing herbs (one at a time max though) so don't worry about gobbling them up, and warp checkpoints are placed pretty reasonably. Also the first dungeon has an incredibly catchy tune.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:15
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BloodWulfe posted:The hero's poke attack has a fixed damage rate.
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Sep 15, 2014 22:24
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Soooo.. Fairy Fencer F tomorrow. How 'bout that?
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Sep 15, 2014 23:38
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Million Ghosts posted:Soooo.. Fairy Fencer F tomorrow. How 'bout that? oh that's tomorrow? ImpAtom is it any good? i assume you know.
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Sep 15, 2014 23:41
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Keeping in mind good for Compile Heart and good for real companies is a very different scale.
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Sep 15, 2014 23:42
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