Eastern Europe: Poland rip in pis

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HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

I didn't even get a chance to post info about the elections, I couldn't keep up with the speed everyone was posting arguing with Majorian. They have a Clancychat thread now and this one can get back to posting news.

I thought this bit of news was interesting.

http://business-review.eu/featured/romania-takes-charge-of-ukraines-cybernetic-defense-70232

# ? Sep 15, 2014 01:53

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 12:42

Lead out in cuffs: Sep 18, 2012; "That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."

Majorian posted:

This is a good idea. I'll start up a new thread in an hour or two, if that's all right with everyone.

Thanks!

In case anyone missed it, the thread for clancychat / NATO theorycrafting is here, leaving this thread for discussion of actual events in Eastern Europe.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 02:51

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,

OddObserver posted:

There have been plenty of news, too: today most (all?) Ukrainian political parties released their parliamentary election lists.
Quite a few surprising choices. Weirdest of all: Timoshenko is #2 in her party, with number 1 being...
Nadejda Savchenko, the Ukrainian pilot that's being held by Russia after being captured in Luhansk and transferred
across border.

Also a couple of journalists have joined Poroshenko's list, some community activists, and, sadly, plenty of volunteer
armed group commanders in just about every party list.

Edit: also, 3 Ukrainian servicemen died defending the Donetsk airport today. Nice ceasefire...
Edit #2: there were also local elections in Russia (and occupied Crimea).

That's an interesting strategy with the fighter pilot. It'll probably net the party a few votes, but if she gets elected what's the effect? Is there diplomatic precedent for foreign prisoners becoming politicians in their home countries?

# ? Sep 15, 2014 03:16

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

I'm pretty sure Russia is not interested in a "neutral" Ukraine. If anything it wants a client state.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 03:40

Cliff Racer: Mar 24, 2007; by Lowtax

How is it actually legal though? How could she file or accept her nomination, etc?

# ? Sep 15, 2014 03:41

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Cliff Racer posted:

How is it actually legal though? How could she file or accept her nomination, etc?

Through attorney?

# ? Sep 15, 2014 03:52

Numlock: May 19, 2007; The simplest seppo on the forums

Dolash posted:

That's an interesting strategy with the fighter pilot. It'll probably net the party a few votes, but if she gets elected what's the effect? Is there diplomatic precedent for foreign prisoners becoming politicians in their home countries?

Wasn't there a MP from Northern Ireland that spent his entire term in British Prison? Point is its a symbolic gesture that means "gently caress YOU" to who ever is accusing the person in question of crimes and also pointing out that Russia is in the business of kidnapping people.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 04:25

NEED TOILET PAPER: Mar 22, 2013; by XyloJW

Numlock posted:

Wasn't there a MP from Northern Ireland that spent his entire term in British Prison? Point is its a symbolic gesture that means "gently caress YOU" to who ever is accusing the person in question of crimes and also pointing out that Russia is in the business of kidnapping people.

I think you mean Bobby Sands? He was elected an MP while imprisoned. He died not long afterwards--still in jail--from a hunger strike.

But yeah, the pilot's definitely supposed to be a giant middle finger to Russia. Interesting if that party does win, but I think they'll just find someone to represent the pilot because I doubt Russia's going to let her go.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 04:56

Charliegrs: Aug 10, 2009

So does anyone here bank with Chase? I just tried to purchase a TV show on Amazon and my card was declined. I log into the Chase app on my phone, and I get a "Cyberattack warning" I call up Chase customer service, spend over half an hour on hold (at 9:30pm on a Sunday night) before I finally get through. The Indian customer service rep tells me they are doing system upgrades and that I won't be able to use my card for 2 hours. I asked about the cyber attack warning on my mobile app and she was very dismissive.

I went on twitter and it seems as though this is affecting a lot of people. Also a few people had said it was Russian hackers. So it got me wondering maybe this might be related to the new sanctions put on Russia? Maybe they are trying to tell us they can hit our major banking systems in retaliation? I mean we already know they can but maybe they are starting to flex their muscles?

# ? Sep 15, 2014 05:54

Majorian: Jul 1, 2009

Vladimir Putin posted:

I'm pretty sure Russia is not interested in a "neutral" Ukraine. If anything it wants a client state.

I'd be interested in hearing why you think this is in the other thread.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 06:02

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

OddObserver posted:

Timoshenko is #2 in her party, with number 1 being...
Nadejda Savchenko, the Ukrainian pilot that's being held by Russia after being captured in Luhansk and transferred
across border.

Hmmph, are there explanations to this, alternative to a PR stunt by Timoshenko?

# ? Sep 15, 2014 08:36

Dusty Baker 2: Jul 8, 2011; Keyboard Inghimasi

kalstrams posted:

Hmmph, are there explanations to this, alternative to a PR stunt by Timoshenko?

Your avatar is hilarious and I keep reading your posts in what I imagine her voice is.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 09:11

Hazamuth: May 9, 2007; the original bugsy

Here is something rather disturbing picked from liveuamap. Can't verify due to not being able to read cyrillic.

https://twitter.com/kanalukraine/status/511430265064157184

"Ministry of Defense: the terrorists in the Donbas have nukes with yield of 2 kilotons."

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:20

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Hazamuth posted:

Here is something rather disturbing picked from liveuamap. Can't verify due to not being able to read cyrillic.

https://twitter.com/kanalukraine/status/511430265064157184

"Ministry of Defense: the terrorists in the Donbas have nukes with yield of 2 kilotons."

You got it right. :smith:

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:22

Forgall: Oct 16, 2012; by Azathoth

Hazamuth posted:

Here is something rather disturbing picked from liveuamap. Can't verify due to not being able to read cyrillic.

https://twitter.com/kanalukraine/status/511430265064157184

"Ministry of Defense: the terrorists in the Donbas have nukes with yield of 2 kilotons."

That is what it says. Whether it's true or not is another matter of course.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:24

Lucy Heartfilia: May 31, 2012

Are the separatists still firing artillery out of Donetsk?

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:28

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Link in tweet points to an advisor of minister of defence of Ukraine saying that separatists and Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine use SM-240(2S4)s, that have, amongst others, nuclear and neutron charges.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:28

Forgall: Oct 16, 2012; by Azathoth

kalstrams posted:

Link in tweet points to an advisor of minister of defence of Ukraine saying that separatists and Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine use SM-240(2S4)s, that have, amongst others, nuclear and neutron charges.

Yes, but just because they can shoot charges like that doesn't mean Russians gave them actual nukes. I loving hope.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:33

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Forgall posted:

Yes, but just because they can shoot charges like that doesn't mean Russians gave them actual nukes. I loving hope.

Given that it is advisor, not minister, it might as well be sensationalist bollocks or something along those lines.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:35

Hazamuth: May 9, 2007; the original bugsy

kalstrams posted:

Link in tweet points to an advisor of minister of defence of Ukraine saying that separatists and Russian troops in Eastern Ukraine use SM-240(2S4)s, that have, amongst others, nuclear and neutron charges.

So they only have the artillery platform with the supposed ability to launch nuclear rounds. I really do hope that the russians haven't supplied ammunition to bear.

e;fb

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:36

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Hazamuth posted:

So they only have the artillery platform with the supposed ability to launch nuclear rounds. I really do hope that the russians haven't supplied ammunition to bear.

e;fb

Yeah, that's everything the article says if you boil it down to the point.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:38

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

Giving the separatists warheads would be suicide. Literally be suicide. Murder suicide. Of all people. I would guess that Putin has more sense then that (!).

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:45

The New Black: Oct 1, 2006; Had it, lost it.

Forgall posted:

Yes, but just because they can shoot charges like that doesn't mean Russians gave them actual nukes. I loving hope.

Let's face it, we can say Russia might do stupid stuff that may be bad for them in the long run because of nationalism/feeling threatened/spheres of whatever, but surely, surely they would never do anything as monumentally stupid as that, which would be incredibly bad for them immediately. Especially since MH17 should have taught them that giving the rebels serious hardware leads to them using it and loving up in the worst way possible.

tbh I'd only believe it when I saw pictures of the mushroom cloud.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:46

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

The New Black posted:

Let's face it, we can say Russia might do stupid stuff that may be bad for them in the long run because of nationalism/feeling threatened/spheres of whatever, but surely, surely they would never do anything as monumentally stupid as that, which would be incredibly bad for them immediately. Especially since MH17 should have taught them that giving the rebels serious hardware leads to them using it and loving up in the worst way possible.

tbh I'd only believe it when I saw pictures of the mushroom cloud.

I was trying to articulate why this is such a particularly insane and dangerous idea because it's difficult to put into words. I couldn't parse the enormity of it; grasping at visual metaphors of Putin threatening the Ukraine with a handgun to his own temple or him handing a very small match to the separatists while the remainder of the room looks on ankle deep in gasoline and horror.

Then I realized it was such a stupid idea my brain can only process it in political cartoons.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 11:57

Peel: Dec 3, 2007

It's even more almost certainly nonsense than the earlier claim that Russia was threatening Ukraine with tactical nukes. It serves no Russian objectives and the Ukrainian government has an enormous interest in erecting boogeymen.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 12:16

Libluini: May 18, 2012; I gravitated towards the Greens, eventually even joining the party itself.

The Linke is a party I grudgingly accept exists, but I've learned enough about DDR-history I can't bring myself to trust a party that was once the SED, a party leading the corrupt state apparatus ...; Grimey Drawer

After the sea, now the land: NATO-exercise "Rapid Trident" has started in the Ukraine.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 12:28

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

kalstrams posted:

Hmmph, are there explanations to this, alternative to a PR stunt by Timoshenko?

I don't like Timoshenko enough to think of any other explanation than that --- that she thinks her party's chances will be improved by having someone viewed as a hero heading the party list.
Anyway, UP has a nice article, in Russian, listing all that happened with various party lists:
http://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/articles/2014/09/15/7037772/

# ? Sep 15, 2014 13:01

HUGE PUBES A PLUS: Apr 30, 2005

Hazamuth posted:

Here is something rather disturbing picked from liveuamap. Can't verify due to not being able to read cyrillic.

https://twitter.com/kanalukraine/status/511430265064157184

"Ministry of Defense: the terrorists in the Donbas have nukes with yield of 2 kilotons."

That's chilling news. :smith:

I hope it's wrong.

Belarusians fighting with the Russians in Donbass recorded this video on August 28. You can see the smoke from their shelling in the background.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crXjvNg5ENo

The Russian Embassy in Latvia is recruiting people to go fight in Donbass.

http://www.lsm.lv/ru/statja/obschestvo/novosti/jiteley-latvii-verbuyut-na-voynu.a98355/

quote:

Latvian TV received information about the inhabitants of Latvia who intend to go well, Ukraine to fight on the side of Russia. This can be done through the Russian embassy - in this assured journalists met in Latgale Latvians intending to become a Russian mercenaries in Ukraine, according to the transfer Panorāma Latvian TV.
Despite the fact that none of radically-minded political group in Latvia does not confess that actually engaged in recruitment of mercenaries, support it, for example, the National Bolsheviks Vladimir Linderman. A Russian Soyuz Tatyana Zhdanok says they understand the people who want to go to war on the Donbass to champion Russian. Concerned, there are among the activists of the party "Consent". Without revealing themselves, they were told that the Russian embassy is ready to quickly draw up the documents, while promising to pay well.

Reporter: You have already submitted the documents?

Sergey: Yes.

F: And what say? When can I go?

C: Yes, even now. Sorry to smoke, nerves.

M: And you can get the money, if we agree?

C: All you can. Mercenaries in fact.

F: They promised?

S: Yes.

F: And how much can you get?

C: One thousand five hundred for each dead

F: This is the euro?

S: Yes, in euros.

Russia willing recruits and former Latvian prisoners who would be willing to go to war in Ukraine. As told Dmitry transfer, it needs to abandon the Latvian citizenship, while at the embassy, you can immediately get the tickets and go to Ukraine.

"They did not just say that there is such an opportunity, and said: We are looking forward to when you come. I thought so - I do not mind to go to war no one knows where. It is not known how much time I spend there, but I know that I am protecting my identity, I am Russian, and I have the right to do "- said Dmitry.

The only thing that prevents him to do it now - after the release from prison of his conviction has not yet been settled and he can not travel outside of Latvia.

HUGE PUBES A PLUS fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Sep 15, 2014

# ? Sep 15, 2014 14:02

Finlander: Feb 21, 2011

Wasn't there another claim of the Russian terrorists having nuclear weapons, a few weeks back or so?

# ? Sep 15, 2014 14:05

Cheatum the Evil Midget: Sep 11, 2000; I COULDN'T BACK UP ANY OF MY ARGUEMENTS, IGNORE ME PLEASE.

I hear they have a time machine and have been going back to get velociraptors to ride into battle

# ? Sep 15, 2014 14:21

Zohar: Jul 14, 2013; Good kitty

Fairly sure the linked article only says the artillery they're using has nuclear capabilities, but someone with a better understanding of Russian than me can confirm:

http://www.segodnya.ua/regions/donetsk/terroristy-v-donbasse-imeyut-yadernye-snaryady-moshchnostyu-do-dvuh-kilotonn-minoborony-552181.html

# ? Sep 15, 2014 14:37

TeodorMorozov: May 27, 2013

Hazamuth posted:

Here is something rather disturbing picked from liveuamap. Can't verify due to not being able to read cyrillic.

https://twitter.com/kanalukraine/status/511430265064157184

"Ministry of Defense: the terrorists in the Donbas have nukes with yield of 2 kilotons."

Twitters Ministry of Defence just need a justification for returning to Ukraine status of nuke country.
For example here he is blaming US & EU what your countries doesn't helping him in war with his own people.
http://www.vz.ru/news/2014/9/14/705574.html

Your new pet so pathetic. Untrained monkeys could've done better.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 14:51

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; by Fluffdaddy
(and can't post for 6 days!)

TeodorMorozov posted:

Twitters Ministry of Defence just need a justification for returning to Ukraine status of nuke country.

I think the Russian invasion of Crimea and Donbass are quite adequate justification for Ukraine to wish they had kept nuclear weapons.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 14:55

Elukka: Feb 18, 2011; For All Mankind

Zohar posted:

Fairly sure the linked article only says the artillery they're using has nuclear capabilities, but someone with a better understanding of Russian than me can confirm:

http://www.segodnya.ua/regions/donetsk/terroristy-v-donbasse-imeyut-yadernye-snaryady-moshchnostyu-do-dvuh-kilotonn-minoborony-552181.html

That's what it looks like from Google Translate, yeah. It doesn't really mean anything if that's the case. Russia has no special nuclear artillery, it's all shells fired by common artillery pieces. Both sides have tons of 'nuclear capable' artillery but it doesn't mean they have nukes. It's kinda like how basically every fighter is technically nuclear-capable.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 15:10

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

http://www.eurointegration.com.ua/rus/articles/2014/09/15/7026002/

Nice UP article (in Russian) about what the heck happened with the delay of implementation of trade portion of association agreement between Ukraine and EU. The most interesting bit: apparently some EU member states threatened to block ratification if Ukraine doesn't do it to mollify Russia.

... Why am I suddenly reminded of liberum veto?

# ? Sep 15, 2014 15:27

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Zohar posted:

Fairly sure the linked article only says the artillery they're using has nuclear capabilities, but someone with a better understanding of Russian than me can confirm:

http://www.segodnya.ua/regions/donetsk/terroristy-v-donbasse-imeyut-yadernye-snaryady-moshchnostyu-do-dvuh-kilotonn-minoborony-552181.html

Yeah, that's what I wrote a dozen of posts ago.

Edit: I'll translate Latvian article about mercenaries in an hour or so.

Edit2: Rereading my post I mention - it's badly worded, perhaps, the capability was meant.

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Sep 15, 2014

# ? Sep 15, 2014 15:27

Ardennes: May 12, 2002

OddObserver posted:

http://www.eurointegration.com.ua/rus/articles/2014/09/15/7026002/

Nice UP article (in Russian) about what the heck happened with the delay of implementation of trade portion of association agreement between Ukraine and EU. The most interesting bit: apparently some EU member states threatened to block ratification if Ukraine doesn't do it to mollify Russia.

... Why am I suddenly reminded of liberum veto?

That is quite a kick in the head, Ukraine desperately needs the capital that would come from an increase of exports right now, not 2016.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 15:33

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

Ardennes posted:

That is quite a kick in the head, Ukraine desperately needs the capital that would come from an increase of exports right now, not 2016.

Actually that part isn't a problem: EU is unilaterally waving tariffs from Ukraine, and Russia is even saying it won't be quite as dickish --- except that's subject to change the moment they don't like anything, so like 2 days from now or so...

# ? Sep 15, 2014 15:46

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,

TeodorMorozov posted:

Twitters Ministry of Defence just need a justification for returning to Ukraine status of nuke country.
For example here he is blaming US & EU what your countries doesn't helping him in war with his own people.
http://www.vz.ru/news/2014/9/14/705574.html

Your new pet so pathetic. Untrained monkeys could've done better.

Did they scrape you directly from the comments section of an RT article, or something?

Anyway, they obviously didn't give the separatists nuclear weapons since we've seen from the MH17 debacle that they can't be trusted with heavy weaponry with serious potential blowback - that's why the Russian army's started doing the heavy lifting. I could see why Putin might want to, though, since they're the ultimate backstop. If Donetsk/Luhansk were nuclear-capable and threatened the non-nuclear, non-NATO Ukraine with retaliatory strikes if they attempt another "invasion", that'd be the end of the war right there.

Could you imagine the shitstorm if Russian forces set up some kind of nuclear weapon within separatist territory and then Russia hand-waved it by saying "Oh, I guess those treacherous Ukrainians didn't give up all their nuclear weapons after all, because the separatists just found one in a liberated Ukrainian arsenal!"? I couldn't imagine Putin giving a nuke to the idiot locals, but I could almost imagine something that brazen with the regular army.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 16:15

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 12:42

ranbo das: Oct 16, 2013

Dolash posted:

Did they scrape you directly from the comments section of an RT article, or something?

He's Russian, he probably believes it. You have to remember what a strong grip on the media Putin has, it's easy to believe something when it's all over the TV and newspapers every day.

Also, he still hasn't explained how 13 > 15 in his world.

# ? Sep 15, 2014 16:43

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