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Condiv posted:could someone tell me why the cops needed to identify her still if her husband was free to go? if they concede her husband is not a john, then how can they suspect she's a prostitute. if her husband is not charged with whatever you get charged with for having sex in public, how could she be? To be fair, having his ID but not hers doesn't prove they are married to each other. Of course, since LAPD claims that they did not have suspicion of prostitution, this is irrelevant.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:38
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Condiv posted:could someone tell me why the cops needed to identify her still if her husband was free to go? if they concede her husband is not a john, then how can they suspect she's a prostitute. if her husband is not charged with whatever you get charged with for having sex in public, how could she be? Nobody was charged with anything. The cops rolled up and were like "Hey, we got this report about you guys, what's up with that?" and her husband was like "I'm Lucas and here's my ID and she's my wife and didn't you see that Jamie Foxx movie? (I guess)" and they were like "Ok cool we're going to verify this story because every john we've ever busted says that." and when they asked for her ID she wouldn't give it to them and walked off. So they cuffed her and put her in the back of the car until they could figure out who she was, and then both of them were free to go.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:38
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Pohl posted:This is really loving stupid. His consensual sex life has nothing to do with anything, but somehow it has become a thing in D&D to bring it up anytime he posts. I don't even engage in that type of BDSM with my current partner, but it doesn't matter because there's A) nothing wrong with that and B) It's none of your business The thing is the only people who care about it are people who have a problem with me being vocal about racism.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:39
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wateroverfire posted:Nobody was charged with anything. The cops rolled up and were like "Hey, we got this report about you guys, what's up with that?" and her husband was like "I'm Lucas and here's my ID and she's my wife and didn't you see that Jamie Foxx movie? (I guess)" and they were like "Ok cool we're going to verify this story because every john we've ever busted says that." and when they asked for her ID she wouldn't give it to them and walked off. So they cuffed her and put her in the back of the car until they could figure out who she was, and then both of them were free to go. and back to assuming she was a hooker based on absolutely nothing.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:40
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blackguy32 posted:You know this really is a thing, and the post he quoted is a perfect example of it. Apparently, black people don't know what real racism is or something and he has to explain it to us. The skewed perspective of white people's views on racism is very real, but when you call it "whitesplaining" it makes you sound like a retard.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:41
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Zeitgueist posted:I don't even engage in that type of BDSM with my current partner, but it doesn't matter because there's A) nothing wrong with that and B) It's none of your business Don't defend yourself, because you don't have to, and it will only derail the thread. I'm just tired of people thinking they are loving cute by posting poo poo that has no relevance, while their only intention is to harm someone else. I don't care if people don't like each other; stop with the personal attacks you assholes.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:42
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blackguy32 posted:You know this really is a thing, and the post he quoted is a perfect example of it. Apparently, black people don't know what real racism is or something and he has to explain it to us. 1) Almost everyone (possibly actually everyone?) getting indignant over the HORRIBLE RACIST TREATMENT of Watts is white. 2) Being compelled to show ID during a police investigation: real racism.
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Sep 16, 2014 20:43
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DARPA posted:and back to assuming she was a hooker based on absolutely nothing. Um...they investigated based on a complaint that she and a guy were having sex in his car, which is not nothing?
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Sep 16, 2014 20:45
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Condiv posted:if her husband is not charged with whatever you get charged with for having sex in public, how could she be?
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Sep 16, 2014 20:47
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wateroverfire posted:Nobody was charged with anything. The cops rolled up and were like "Hey, we got this report about you guys, what's up with that?" and her husband was like "I'm Lucas and here's my ID and she's my wife and didn't you see that Jamie Foxx movie? (I guess)" and they were like "Ok cool we're going to verify this story because every john we've ever busted says that." and when they asked for her ID she wouldn't give it to them and walked off. So they cuffed her and put her in the back of the car until they could figure out who she was, and then both of them were free to go. This sounds about right as a summation of events. I don't really think that any parties dispute these facts. Everything here hinges on whether the officer actually had probable cause to believe she committed a crime either before or during the stop. If he did then the later detainment was lawful. If not then it wasn't. My view is that the officer responded to dispatch reporting lewd conduct, and found them making out and matching the description and location (triggering reasonable suspicion), but didn't see evidence (no jizz tissues or nudity) corroborating the lewd conduct claim (thereby not providing probable cause). Asked for ID like it was a traffic stop (it wasn't) and overreacted when she refused to provide the ID, claiming he had probable cause which required her to provide it. When she still refused and left the scene he forcibly detained her (without probable cause, because refusing to provide a an ID under reasonable suspicion and then leaving the scene also does not provide probable cause). The fact that he claimed to have probable cause does not create the requirement to follow his command. Edit: I think it is quite possible that the officer believed in good faith that he had probable cause, or else that he had the right to require Driver's Licences because they were in a vehicle when stopped. This case sounds like regular incompetence, perhaps compounded by lack of discretion. I can't know if the lack of discretion had other motivators, but I think it's reasonable to ask if it did. amanasleep fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 20:52
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wateroverfire posted:Nobody was charged with anything. The cops rolled up and were like "Hey, we got this report about you guys, what's up with that?" and her husband was like "I'm Lucas and here's my ID and she's my wife and didn't you see that Jamie Foxx movie? (I guess)" and they were like "Ok cool we're going to verify this story because every john we've ever busted says that." and when they asked for her ID she wouldn't give it to them and walked off. So they cuffed her and put her in the back of the car until they could figure out who she was, and then both of them were free to go. they no longer had any reason to suspect her of prostitution, so how was it legal to hold her for identification considering california law requires they have reasonable suspicion she committed a crime? amanasleep posted:To be fair, having his ID but not hers doesn't prove they are married to each other. Of course, since LAPD claims that they did not have suspicion of prostitution, this is irrelevant. they don't need to prove they're married in this case. by letting the husband go early, the police proved they no longer believed he was a john, and without a john, they have no reasonable reason to believe she's a prostitute. also, where did the LAPD deny the claim they stopped her on suspicion of being a prostitute?
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Sep 16, 2014 20:59
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Neo Duckberg posted:The skewed perspective of white people's views on racism is very real, but when you call it "whitesplaining" it makes you sound like a retard. I don't think it does, and if it does, it's because people who already don't agree with being called out on their own racism poisoning the well on that term. wateroverfire posted:1) Almost everyone (possibly actually everyone?) getting indignant over the HORRIBLE RACIST TREATMENT of Watts is white. Case in point.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:01
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Condiv posted:they no longer had any reason to suspect her of prostitution, so how was it legal to hold her for identification considering california law requires they have reasonable suspicion she committed a crime? Here is the recent news report. LA Weekly posted:An LAPD official said Parker had responded to a call reporting lewd acts. The official told us the exact dispatcher comments of the citizen's report were that a white man and a black woman in floral shorts were ... Also, LAPD posted this: LAPD Rampart Division posted:Officers may "detain" someone when they have "reasonable suspicion" that criminal activity has, is, or is about to a occur and the person being detained may be involved. You are not free to leave during a legal detention. If you try to leave, it is a violation of 148(a)(1) PC - Resisting, Delaying, or Obstructing Officer; and you may be subject to arrest. So their view is that the officer determines when detention under reasonable suspicion ends. amanasleep fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 21:11
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Neo Duckberg posted:The skewed perspective of white people's views on racism is very real, but when you call it "whitesplaining" it makes you sound like a retard. Ok? So, we have racism, and the solution is to make the conversation about white people's skewed views on racism? No, that is what happens in every conversation about racism, even when the incidents are unrelated. "But what about black on black crime! A black person called me Cracker once!" wateroverfire posted:1) Almost everyone (possibly actually everyone?) getting indignant over the HORRIBLE RACIST TREATMENT of Watts is white. Here is a hint: this username isn't just for show. wateroverfire posted:2) Being compelled to show ID during a police investigation: real racism. The real racism had already occurred by that point. First, people immediately jumping to the conclusion that she must be a prostitute because she was black and he was white. Second, the fact that it is well within your rights to not have to show ID. You only have to mention your name. What if you don't have ID? There are plenty of minorities that don't. wateroverfire posted:Um...they investigated based on a complaint that she and a guy were having sex in his car, which is not nothing? I can make up poo poo that will press the right buttons, but that doesn't mean the police should immediately take their word for it. Here is an example of this stupidity in action: http://atlantadailyworld.com/2014/06/27/black-man-falsely-accused-of-home-robbery-saved-by-little-girl/
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Sep 16, 2014 21:15
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blackguy32 posted:Here is a hint: this username isn't just for show. I'm not black, but I've seen this story all over various websites/blogs that are by and for people of color. Saying only white folks care about it is a pretty great example of whitesplaining.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:20
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Zeitgueist posted:I'm not black, but I've seen this story all over various websites/blogs that are by and for people of color. Saying only white folks care about it is a pretty great example of whitesplaining. It's all over the place because it's a great example of the constant micro-aggressions that black people have to put up with that *somehow* just never seem to happen to white people. But because the officer has claimed probable cause and there's no video and the woman was only injured and detained, it's a terrible hill to pick to die on because nobody outside of the immediately affected is going to fight this one.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:23
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bassguitarhero posted:It's all over the place because it's a great example of the constant micro-aggressions that black people have to put up with that *somehow* just never seem to happen to white people. But because the officer has claimed probable cause and there's no video and the woman was only injured and detained, it's a terrible hill to pick to die on because nobody outside of the immediately affected is going to fight this one. Another great example of micro-aggressions is how every time somebody brings up poo poo like this we get told how it's not racism. Somehow racism exists, but without any examples beyond KKK lynchings.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:25
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I've seen a lot of black people off site disgusted how she is playing the race card in a time when the race card is all a lot of black people have when confronted with oppression. She resorted to her last excuse to save face. People who take the race card seriously hate being manipulated for personal gain, as evidenced by Miss Call My Dad.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:28
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Zeitgueist posted:Another great example of micro-aggressions is how every time somebody brings up poo poo like this we get told how it's not racism. Somehow racism exists, but without any examples beyond KKK lynchings.  
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Sep 16, 2014 21:29
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Zeitgueist posted:Another great example of micro-aggressions is how every time somebody brings up poo poo like this we get told how it's not racism. Somehow racism exists, but without any examples beyond KKK lynchings. bassguitarhero personally went to the site of the Brown shooting, and I think he has video where he was actually shot at. He isn't hand waving this away, he is trying to refocus the discussion. I can understand why he is annoyed with the way this thread has gone.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:30
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temple posted:I've seen a lot of black people off site disgusted how she is playing the race card in a time when the race card is all a lot of black people have when confronted with oppression. She resorted to her last excuse to save face. People who take the race card seriously hate being manipulated for personal gain, as evidenced by Miss Call My Dad. Holy poo poo. loving goldmine this poo poo.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:31
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temple posted:I've seen a lot of black people off site disgusted how she is playing the race card in a time when the race card is all a lot of black people have when confronted with oppression. She resorted to her last excuse to save face. People who take the race card seriously hate being manipulated for personal gain, as evidenced by Miss Call My Dad. People are going to get upset at the race card being played even when it is very appropriate. So I really have little sympathy for people who think it is something to be saved for the opportune moment.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:32
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blackguy32 posted:Here is a hint: this username isn't just for show. Except for at least two dudes who aren't white, almost everybody out of the approximately five people who are complaining are white. Doggie fresh
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Sep 16, 2014 21:33
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Why does it matter what color people are when we talk about discrimination? Suddenly, we are arguing a Right Wing talking point and not actually talking about the discrimination.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:36
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Can I say that anyone who names themselves Cheffy Be*live is probably a giant douchebag?
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Sep 16, 2014 21:37
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I pasted this link 3 pages ago but I'll paste it again: http://www.upworthy.com/one-easy-thing-all-white-people-could-do-that-would-make-the-world-a-better-place-5 In this story, a black woman and her sister are going through the checkout lane of a grocery store. They are both paying by check. Her sister, who can pass for white, has her check accepted by the cashier right off the bat, no ID needed. The black woman, on the other hand, hands her check over and the cashier asks for ID and then start going through the book of fraudulent IDs to make sure it's legit. Meanwhile the black woman's daughter is asking why the sister gets waved through but she does not. These kinds of micro-aggressions are real and happen all the time. Not trusting black people at their word is just what the system does, because as a general rule you are supposed to ID EVERYBODY, but white people get a trust pass. The same happens when black people are trying to walk into hotels or businesses with buzzed-in doors and white people, who would let in other white people without a second glance, will suddenly turn around and stop them and say that they need to know who they are or where they're going in order to pass. I've worked in the same building downtown for 3 years and I had to eventually give up going through the front door because every time we had new employees they would go out of their way to stop me, even though I'm building management and am here every single business day of the week. The argument is, "Did the cop have probable cause to require this woman's ID?" Everybody here knows that he did not, but the officer says he did, and when it comes to black people in America that is good enough for 88% of the country. This is a terrible hill to die on because there's no evidence, no video, just her word versus his which means it's a discussion that'll never go anywhere. In my opinion if it went to a court of law (it won't), a judge or jury would instantly find the cop had probable cause and throw the rest out, so if you want to work it into a bigger picture discussion that's great but fighting over the specific terminology of probable cause in this instance is wholly worthless.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:38
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blackguy32 posted:People are going to get upset at the race card being played even when it is very appropriate. So I really have little sympathy for people who think it is something to be saved for the opportune moment.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:43
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Neo Duckberg posted:The skewed perspective of white people's views on racism is very real, but when you call it "whitesplaining" it makes you sound like a retard.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:43
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temple posted:I've seen a lot of black people off site disgusted how she is playing the race card in a time when the race card is all a lot of black people have when confronted with oppression. She resorted to her last excuse to save face. People who take the race card seriously hate being manipulated for personal gain, as evidenced by Miss Call My Dad. Oh my god, how stupid can you be? This is incredible. "All you theoretical white people on this site disagree with theoretical black people on another website, what do you have to say in your defense? Those potential blacks on another place on the internet agreed with me, so there. I have more imaginary blacks on my side, so I cannot be the wrong one." Jesus Christ. temple posted:LOL because I feel that's exactly what Coco for Django Unchained is doing. Yes we get that, but then you invoked an unknown number of potentially black people posting on the internet to support your argument. What is wrong with you?
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Sep 16, 2014 21:44
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amanasleep posted:Here is the recent news report. allowing "reasonable" to be defined by the officer makes the term worthless hope this actress sues and gets even more money to roll in
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Sep 16, 2014 21:44
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I just went to blackpeopleopinions.gov and there were a ton of threads posting about how it was racist to assume this lady was a prostitute, so I win.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:47
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Oh my god, how stupid can you be? This is incredible. Black people are not a monolith. Insane! I'll tell you a secret: There are predominantly black messageboards were people discuss the same topics as SA. Strangely, they often reach different conclusions from white liberal heaven. temple fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 21:48
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you're really my black friending it up
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Sep 16, 2014 21:52
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Condiv posted:you're really my black friending it up I'm black
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Sep 16, 2014 21:53
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temple posted:Black people are not a monolith. Insane! I know you think your'e not offensive, but yeah you're really stirring poo poo up, just to let you know. Is that your intention? Like you're the one who can speak for everybody, and this place is white liberal heaven when there are more than just black people posting here, or white people posting here.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:53
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Condiv posted:allowing "reasonable" to be defined by the officer makes the term worthless Well, legally, the officer's definition of reasonable is subject to review by the courts. Operationally, the officer on the scene obviously has to use his judgement as to whether he has reasonable suspicion grounds for further detention after the initial stop. It is in the interests of the Police for people to believe that the officer has unlimited discretion to detain them during an investigation. Technically, an officer can detain you under reasonable suspicion, then charge you for interfering with an investigation for refusing to identify yourself or leaving the scene. But that's pretty unlikely to hold up in court. Note that this is exactly what happened in this case but the officer did not charge her, only detained her. According to LAPD she could have been charged for interfering. Traditionally, the courts have been pretty deferential to defendants who have asserted that they had a right to exit a street detention after being asked for ID (and either ignoring or refusing the command). Keep in mind that this was not a "stop and frisk" during which the detainee may be forcibly detained to determine if they are carrying a weapon. No reasonable suspicion of weapons possession is asserted by the police in this case.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:56
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"Prejudice? Some blacks disagree." 
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Sep 16, 2014 21:58
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Nonsense posted:I know you think your'e not offensive, but yeah you're really stirring poo poo up, just to let you know. Is that your intention? Like you're the one who can speak for everybody, and this place is white liberal heaven when there are more than just black people posting here, or white people posting here. I'm speaking for myself and I mentioned the fact that I literally have been following the same discussion elsewhere with very different results. It is so strange to me that people on SA immediately assume everything is racism. Edit: Yeah everything in America is racism but there are more factors at play and there is a possibility that the cop was just doing his job and the woman was just being spoiled. temple fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 21:59
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temple posted:Black people are not a monolith. Insane! Like I said I checked blackpeopleopinions.gov where you have to be black to post, the blackest forum on the very dark beating heart of the internet, and there were threads that said you are wrong. Go now, in shame at your wrongness.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:59
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Pohl posted:bassguitarhero personally went to the site of the Brown shooting, and I think he has video where he was actually shot at. He isn't hand waving this away, he is trying to refocus the discussion. I can understand why he is annoyed with the way this thread has gone. He met up with me there in the daytime, I was the one who was shot at, multiple times by both parties may I add. I'm not trying to seem like try hard badass but he and I actually have invested time and money into this because we care about the issue and threads like this are inevitable ruined every time and it makes me sad.
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Sep 16, 2014 22:00
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