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rotinaj posted:I was never sure which superteam Paladin was she on. Was she with Feral? I don't think we've been told yet. She hasn't appeared or been mentioned before this chapter, iirc.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:20
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rotinaj posted:I was never sure which superteam Paladin was she on. Was she with Feral? Nah, Feral's team members are dead(OD'D), incarcerated(For killing a judge) and working as a bouncer at a titty bar. Paladin seems to be an Iron Man style superhero, no known team affiliations as of yet.
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Sep 20, 2014 20:36
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Patrick Spens posted:Who quite possibly sexually abused his daughters. I don't think there was really any suggestion of that, I mean it can't be ruled out but he's more likely to have "merely" physically abused them.
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Sep 21, 2014 01:09
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Hollismason posted:She's loving batshit so maybe. I'm not super surprized about how this turned out. I hope this issue focuses a bit more around the whole idea or at least addresses the " Government totally was okay with a Adventurous Teenage Murder Club". so not to pick on this post or anything, but how exactly is she "batshit?" she seems to have a pretty level head about what she's doing, and hasn't shown herself to be self-delusional or anything. Sure she's straight up killing dudes and that's wrong, but killing rapists, DV judges, and baby killers is wrong in the way that is technically true in a moral sense but really doesn't provoke that much of a sense of outrage.
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Sep 21, 2014 07:47
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A big flaming stink posted:so not to pick on this post or anything, but how exactly is she "batshit?" she seems to have a pretty level head about what she's doing, and hasn't shown herself to be self-delusional or anything. Sure she's straight up killing dudes and that's wrong, but killing rapists, DV judges, and baby killers is wrong in the way that is technically true in a moral sense but really doesn't provoke that much of a sense of outrage. I kind of have to agree. There's no madness here. Sure, I disagree with her, but nothing she's doing is really irrational per se.  No more so than trusting in the system and the idea of changing it from within at least!
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Sep 21, 2014 08:05
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Crazy is a loaded term to use, but I'm not sure how you can argue against her being in an incredibly psychologically unhealthy place. Healthy people do not self righteously kill people who are helpless to stop them. Healthy people do not say things like "I am not a who." Rereading this page, I noticed that Moonshadow says "I know what you're going through. I know what it is that you feel." Does this mean Moonshadow was sexually assaulted at some point?
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Sep 21, 2014 10:05
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Wittgen posted:Healthy people do not self righteously kill people who are helpless to stop them. Why not? What does the victim in question being able to fight back or not have to do with whether that person should be killed?
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Sep 21, 2014 12:18
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Hollismason posted:It would have been better if the judge had just let the boys go because of a mistake or technicality like the evidence had been tampered with or destroyed accidently. It would have at least made it some sort of argument, but right now she's murdered rapist, a wife beating judge, and apparently war criminals. Having thought about this some since it last came up in the thread, I'm actually pretty convinced it's better this way. In fact, if it were the other way, that's what would destroy the argument. Let's take your scenario. Let's say the judge had to let them off on a technicality, and she killed him anyway. That would mean that she murdered an innocent man for doing his job correctly. At that point, we can safely say that she's just a psycho and dismiss her. The only reason there can be a debate about her actions at all is that she's only killing people who are genuinely guilty of something. That's what makes the whole thing kind of uncomfortable, and what allows her to make the argument she's making right now, and, importantly, what draws a straight line between the classic superhero stuff she was doing before and what she's doing currently.
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Sep 21, 2014 13:34
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ChairMaster posted:Why not? What does the victim in question being able to fight back or not have to do with whether that person should be killed? All life is sacred. HTH.
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Sep 21, 2014 14:03
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Male Man posted:All life is sacred. HTH. Nah.
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Sep 21, 2014 14:10
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Male Man posted:All life is sacred. HTH. True dat, I'm gonna gently caress up a bell pepper for my salad later. Also what's up with people saying human life has equivalent value? I definitely would put posters in this thread's lives at a higher value than that guy who shot up that island full of kids.
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Sep 21, 2014 15:41
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:True dat, I'm gonna gently caress up a bell pepper for my salad later. Also what's up with people saying human life has equivalent value? I definitely would put posters in this thread's lives at a higher value than that guy who shot up that island full of kids. Even the most despicable piece of human garbage has the right to live. They don't have the right to hurt other people, and if somebody presents an immediate threat to others and the only way to stop them is with lethal or potentially-lethat force, then killing them may be necessary, but just because something is necessary doesn't mean it's right or good. You could argue that because the justice system failed to prosecute the rapists there's no way to make sure they don't hurt somebody again except for a vigilante to take matters into their own hands and kill them, but hoooo boy does that take you down some real dark roads real quick (vigilante justice starts to look a whole lot less appealing once it's pointed at people you don't think "deserve" it). That's also explicitly not Moonshadow's motivation; she's executing them, and if you don't see why a vigilante appointing herself the sole arbiter of who deserves to live and who deserves to die is a bad thing I don't know what to tell you. (See, it's kind of like how executions by the state are a bad idea, except it's more arbitrary and there's even less accountability.) Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 16:10
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Without due process, there's not very much difference between murdering people for crimes they may have gotten away with or killing them because they were rude in a convenience store.
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Sep 21, 2014 16:36
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Basically, this. If violence has to be committed, it has to be done so by the state, in a legally sanctioned way, with rules governing how it is applied. Moonshadow's being a murderous vigilante, but it's okay because all her victims magically deserve it, what with being rapists, abusers, and supposedly war criminals (this last assertion being presented only as a "tell, don't show" exposition from Moonshadow herself about just one of her latest batch of victims). The storytelling itself seems undecided between "Moonshadow's right" and "Moonshadow's wrong". There's some sort of criticism of vigilante justice notably in Moonshadow's rant about how nobody complained when she was violent against other superpowered people, but at the same it's implied all of her victims deserved it.
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Sep 21, 2014 17:35
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I;m pretty sure sneaking up on someone and cutting their throat because you think they're bad isn't a good thing, or even a bad thing a normal person might do like littering or using the last of the toilet paper without replacing it, but clearly I'm no comics moral philosopher
Tubgirl Cosplay fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Sep 21, 2014 |
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Sep 21, 2014 18:51
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SlothfulCobra posted:Without due process, there's not very much difference between murdering people for crimes they may have gotten away with or killing them because they were rude in a convenience store. Cat Mattress posted:Basically, this. If violence has to be committed, it has to be done so by the state, in a legally sanctioned way, with rules governing how it is applied. Due process is kind of a failed idea, though. These are all people who got away with the poo poo they do and would have continued to do so in perpetuity. The American justice system is fuckin useless, and relying on it to make the world a better place is outright foolish. Moonshadow's doing way more to make the world a better place than Allison is.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:17
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ChairMaster posted:Due process is kind of a failed idea, though. These are all people who got away with the poo poo they do and would have continued to do so in perpetuity. The American justice system is fuckin useless, and relying on it to make the world a better place is outright foolish. I'd like to remind anyone who condones vigilante justice that those arguments are just about the exact same justifications used in the deep south by lynch mobs.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:23
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I, too, support the execution of those who cut me off in traffic. A society of trigger-happy executioners is a crime-free society.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:24
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Poison Mushroom posted:Where do you draw the line? Vigilante justice is kind of perfectly set to be a slippery slope, and very quickly just becomes targeting whoever the vigilante (or mob) thinks deserves it. Sure, but you can just as easily say in response to blanket condemnation of extrajudicial killings, well what about slave revolts? Are they wrong to revolt against the system and commit violence against those who have committed "no crime" in the name of freedom? I mean if we're gonna take this to the Old South 
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Sep 21, 2014 21:43
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Cat Mattress posted:Basically, this. If violence has to be committed, it has to be done so by the state, in a legally sanctioned way, with rules governing how it is applied. A good post by a bad poster.
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Sep 21, 2014 21:46
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ChairMaster posted:Due process is kind of a failed idea, though. These are all people who got away with the poo poo they do and would have continued to do so in perpetuity. The American justice system is fuckin useless, and relying on it to make the world a better place is outright foolish. The guy who said "it is better to risk saving a guilty person than to condemn an innocent one" was clearly a doodiehead and a moron.
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Sep 21, 2014 22:23
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Cat Mattress posted:The guy who said "it is better to risk saving a guilty person than to condemn an innocent one" was clearly a doodiehead and a moron. I think the situation changes when a large part of the legal system is build on systemic protection of certain classes
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Sep 21, 2014 22:24
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RickoniX posted:I think the situation changes when a large part of the legal system is build on systemic protection of certain classes Lord knows there was never a class system before Amerikkka
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Sep 21, 2014 22:30
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RickoniX posted:I think the situation changes when a large part of the legal system is build on systemic protection of certain classes The fact that the system has grievous flaws doesn't make "lets go out and kill people we personally think are guilty" a valid alternative.
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Sep 21, 2014 22:44
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I think the story has been portraying Moonshadow as being in the wrong in this, if you look at the rapists they had mixed feelings about the trial and what they had done, some died crying. The judge was an interesting kill since he was implied to be a domestic abuser on multiple levels however Moonshadow slit his throat right in his wife's face showing a clear lack of care for his victims. Protecting or avenging innocent people isn't the priority here, it's an excuse a bit of self-righteous justification for murder and other than the judge she's messed with all her victims beforehand. Also there really should be a better system for compensating people who've been wrongfully convicted and execution doesn't support that nor does it act as disincentive and it's actually more expensive to execute someone than it is to imprison them for life. I oppose the death sentence because I'm a cold blooded rear end in a top hat who doesn't give a poo poo about other people's need for vengeance or emotional closure. Cry me a river hippies!
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Sep 21, 2014 22:51
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It's Party Time!!  Interesting to note that she goes for the guy with the broken ribs first. Probably because he doesn't panic and starts trying to get a plan of action going.
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Sep 23, 2014 13:33
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Huh, I'd assumed it was just invisibility, but... that panel where he seems to be firing hazy bullets through a misty version of her... what's going on? Can she create illusions and basically becomes invisible by creating the illusion of not being there?
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Sep 23, 2014 13:51
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How many mercs are there? I thought it was 5 and I tried lining up balloon colors and facial features but I end up with a lot more than 5...
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Sep 23, 2014 14:42
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MikeJF posted:Huh, I'd assumed it was just invisibility, but... that panel where he seems to be firing hazy bullets through a misty version of her... what's going on? Can she create illusions and basically becomes invisible by creating the illusion of not being there? Makes sense it would explain were the blur of her power comes from. It's the place were her illusions meet reality.
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Sep 23, 2014 15:15
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They are doing a nice job of building up Moonshadow's villain cred with the last few panels.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:26
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Brought To You By posted:It's Party Time!! He had a diploma, that's why.
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Sep 23, 2014 16:32
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I'm gonna have me some fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGitN3vC0xE
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Sep 23, 2014 16:48
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I don't think it's illusions. I think she's going incorporeal. So invisible and intangible.
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Sep 23, 2014 19:50
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packsmack posted:I don't think it's illusions. I think she's going incorporeal. So invisible and intangible. Well she has to walk through doors and not walls, also she frequently got injured after Alison left the Guardians I think it's just illusions, but that's a pretty drat good power to have.
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Sep 23, 2014 20:38
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Yeah she's going full villian.
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Sep 23, 2014 21:04
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Hollismason posted:Yeah she's going full villian. She's going to stab the world!
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Sep 23, 2014 21:53
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She's going to get enough attention that other superhumans are going to have to get involved. That won't work as easily as it 'should', and it will culminate with Sonar completely No Saleing her invisibility and either arresting her without incident, or screaming at her until her eyes and heart explode.
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Sep 23, 2014 21:58
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Keep in mind that, according to Alison, Moonshadow can sneak up on Sonar. I'm not saying he can't detect her, that would just be a new twist.
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Sep 23, 2014 22:09
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idonotlikepeas posted:Keep in mind that, according to Alison, Moonshadow can sneak up on Sonar. I'm not saying he can't detect her, that would just be a new twist. Threat wise he might be one of the first biodynamics she takes out then. I hope Brad gets out of this ok, he seems like a decent guy. 
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Sep 23, 2014 22:24
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:Threat wise he might be one of the first biodynamics she takes out then. I hope Brad gets out of this ok, he seems like a decent guy. Which makes him that much more likely to die per comic book rules.
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Sep 23, 2014 22:38
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