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The problem I have with this isn't that it happened, but that after it happened the parents aren't helping their kid deal with it in a way that is helpful to the child. I went through a similar thing when I was that age of having no filter and arguing with other children who believed in things I didn't. But when I got upset and talked to my parents about it they didn't get mad at the other children, they helped me think about things differently. It isn't unreasonable that a child raised as an atheist is going to have these kinds of interactions. But it's the parents' jobs to teach them to make them more productive and less hurtful to all involved.
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Sep 26, 2014 12:22
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AngryRobotsInc posted:I totally can. I unfortunately known a ton of the super smug "lol you believe in an invisible sky wizard smuggity smug smug" style atheists, who see absolutely nothing rude, condescending, or just downright mean about acting that way to people. I can easily see them teaching their kids to be that way. Little kids say lots and lots of really impolite and embarrassing stuff all the time. You cannot teach a kindergartner nuance; many of the kid's Christian classmates probably do indeed believe in something like an "invisible sky wizard", but does that mean their parents told them that, and believe that themselves? If the dad is some kind of Dawkins-thumping loudmouth he's hiding it pretty well in that posting; he describes what happened to his daughter objectively, his claim that the Pledge has "no educational purpose" is not exactly inflammatory, and his daughter undoubtedly does risk ostracization for speaking her mind about not belonging to the "dominant cultural mythology", which is an appropriate, even clinical way to describe Christianity in the American South.
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Sep 26, 2014 12:46
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The Time Dissolver posted:Little kids say lots and lots of really impolite and embarrassing stuff all the time. You cannot teach a kindergartner nuance; many of the kid's Christian classmates probably do indeed believe in something like an "invisible sky wizard", but does that mean their parents told them that, and believe that themselves? If the dad is some kind of Dawkins-thumping loudmouth he's hiding it pretty well in that posting; he describes what happened to his daughter objectively, his claim that the Pledge has "no educational purpose" is not exactly inflammatory, and his daughter undoubtedly does risk ostracization for speaking her mind about not belonging to the "dominant cultural mythology", which is an appropriate, even clinical way to describe Christianity in the American South. He's certainly not just an irreligious person who didn't want to have his kid believe in something he didn't, he actively told them "no". Raising your kid atheist from that age is every bit as indoctrinating as the pledge of allegiance, and is directly harmful to them in a social aspect. At least the religious have an excuse, because religion is part of their culture and they want to involve their kids in it as soon as possible.
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Sep 26, 2014 13:27
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:He's certainly not just an irreligious person who didn't want to have his kid believe in something he didn't, he actively told them "no". Raising your kid atheist from that age is every bit as indoctrinating as the pledge of allegiance, and is directly harmful to them in a social aspect. At least the religious have an excuse, because religion is part of their culture and they want to involve their kids in it as soon as possible. Atheist culture is still culture. Same as furry culture.  (Livejournal is social media shut up)
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Sep 26, 2014 13:30
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Segmentation Fault posted:Atheist culture is still culture. Same as furry culture. Oh god, I remember this. Did social services ever stop this rear end in a top hat? Surely someone forwarded this on. That kid is 13 by now. What does rebellion against weirdo parents look like? Do you start dressing in formal wear and start hanging with the popular kids? Centripetal Horse posted:Edit: ^^ Oh, come on. You're not saying that poo poo actually happened, are you? That story can't possibly be real. I hope. Every time I've seen it, it wasn't meant as satirical or anything. I'd love to believe it's fake. Arsonist Daria has a new favorite as of 13:42 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 13:34
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Segmentation Fault posted:Atheist culture is still culture. Same as furry culture. He blew his wad early by putting "Furry Hour" right in the first sentence. I gave up after he barked at the teacher. Edit: ^^ Oh, come on. You're not saying that poo poo actually happened, are you? That story can't possibly be real. I hope.
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Sep 26, 2014 13:34
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You guys saw the "I barked at the teacher" line and still think it's real?
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Sep 26, 2014 13:39
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Hoooly poo poo, I can't imagine raising your child as an atheist and not explaining how rude it is to say stuff like that. I mean, having to conform to that sort of stuff also sucks, but I was never actually expected to say the pledge if I didn't want anyway. Sorry but I don't agree with this. How is it rude for an atheist to state their beliefs and not rude for a Christian to state theirs? The kid literally said "there is no God" not "neener neener flying spaghetti monster etc." I mean anyone who gets smug about theism or atheism deserves disdain, but I dislike the double standard that somehow atheists have to "conform" and not everyone else too. I'm not an atheist, but that bugs me.
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Sep 26, 2014 13:40
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Zero Star posted:You guys saw the "I barked at the teacher" line and still think it's real? You never had a weird kid in class that did poo poo like that? Stairs posted:Sorry but I don't agree with this. How is it rude for an atheist to state their beliefs and not rude for a Christian to state theirs? The kid literally said "there is no God" not "neener neener flying spaghetti monster etc." I mean anyone who gets smug about theism or atheism deserves disdain, but I dislike the double standard that somehow atheists have to "conform" and not everyone else too. I am an atheist and telling someone "God isn't real" is plenty smug to begin with. The kid obviously didn't understand that but that's kind of on the dad for telling her that so early. On principle, shoving God down people's throats is just as rude, but if you live in a rural area in America that's something you've got to build up a tolerance to.
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Sep 26, 2014 13:48
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:You never had a weird kid in class that did poo poo like that? Kids, sure. Parents? Come on.
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Sep 26, 2014 13:56
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Kids, sure. Parents? Come on. Weird, I always read that line differently, like he got kicked out of school as a kid for that. Maybe I always wanted to believe. On the other hand, foam adventure. Arsonist Daria has a new favorite as of 14:02 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 13:58
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robotsinmyhead posted:It actually kind of fell off. The OP claimed he wasn't familiar with InfoWars and didn't realize they were who they are. I really want to know what's in the middle of "child massacre happened" and "the government faked it."
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Sep 26, 2014 13:58
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Obviously the shooter killed half the people then the government came in and killed the other half. It's the only scenario that makes sense, really.
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Sep 26, 2014 14:02
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:He's certainly not just an irreligious person who didn't want to have his kid believe in something he didn't, he actively told them "no". Raising your kid atheist from that age is every bit as indoctrinating as the pledge of allegiance, and is directly harmful to them in a social aspect. At least the religious have an excuse, because religion is part of their culture and they want to involve their kids in it as soon as possible. Atheism doesn't need to be hidden like an unsightly rash or a sexual fetish. It absolutely is a value system and a culture that one can be involved in. Atheists have every bit the "excuse" the religious do to express their atheism by raising up little atheist kids from whatever age they drat well please. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I am an atheist and telling someone "God isn't real" is plenty smug to begin with. The kid obviously didn't understand that but that's kind of on the dad for telling her that so early. On principle, shoving God down people's throats is just as rude Even the most well-thought-out, nicest, most compassionate lesson in what atheists believe about Christianity is very, very likely to come out of a kindergartener as "God's not real and neither is Jesus and I'm better than you for knowing it." Just like the smug atheist adults we all love to mock, their personality has led them to embrace a simplistic, reductive understanding of the matter because it allows them to stroke their ego. Lumberjack Bonanza posted:if you live in a rural area in America that's something you've got to build up a tolerance to. gently caress you, dumbass. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 26, 2014 14:11
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The Time Dissolver posted:gently caress you, dumbass. Easy there, slugger. That last point is (sadly) a valid one. You can't exactly change the cultural norm in a given area. Your choices are limited to growing a thick skin, converting, or moving, unless you want to fake belonging to whatever the dominant group is.
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Sep 26, 2014 14:29
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The Time Dissolver posted:Atheism doesn't need to be hidden like an unsightly rash or a sexual fetish. It absolutely is a value system and a culture that one can be involved in. Atheists have every bit the "excuse" the religious do to express their atheism by raising up little atheist kids from whatever age they drat well please. Maybe some atheists feel differently, but you're the first one I've ever encountered who think we have a value system which is inherently atheist, or anything that can be called "atheist culture". That isn't to say we have neither morals or culture, of course, but I've never known the atheist community to be so organized as to codify their own meaningful rituals. Maybe it has something to do with having never actually met another atheist before and not caring so much about believing that there is no god. Oh, and thanks for the insult. I'm not exactly happy about the situation but it's kind of just loving true. Arsonist Daria has a new favorite as of 14:43 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 14:40
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:Easy there, slugger. That last point is (sadly) a valid one. You can't exactly change the cultural norm in a given area. Your choices are limited to growing a thick skin, converting, or moving, unless you want to fake belonging to whatever the dominant group is. This thread's definition of "growing a thick skin" apparently involves sitting down, shutting up, and never ever letting your wide, wide poo poo-eating grin waver for one moment even behind closed doors, and dishonor be upon you if your five-year-old daughter fails to do the same.
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Sep 26, 2014 14:42
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Is it really that hard to notice there's a difference between saying "I don't believe in God" and "God isn't real and Jesus isn't real either"?
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Sep 26, 2014 14:44
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The Time Dissolver posted:This thread's definition of "growing a thick skin" apparently involves sitting down, shutting up, and never ever letting your wide, wide poo poo-eating grin waver for one moment even behind closed doors, and dishonor be upon you if your five-year-old daughter fails to do the same. You're free to voice your opinion but don't be surprised when your opinion gets you in trouble. If you're an Athiest in the bible belt what the gently caress are you doing there?
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Sep 26, 2014 14:47
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Segmentation Fault posted:Atheist culture is still culture. Same as furry culture. This reads like it was written by the guy/goon behind that Dreaming of Utopia cartoon.
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Sep 26, 2014 14:47
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Segmentation Fault posted:You're free to voice your opinion but don't be surprised when your opinion gets you in trouble. If you're an Athiest in the bible belt what the gently caress are you doing there? Living there? Why is it the job of a minority to accommodate the majority's feelings? I don't go out of my way proclaiming my beliefs from the mountain tops but I also won't have my identity erased because it makes the local religious majority uncomfortable.
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Sep 26, 2014 14:53
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Segmentation Fault posted:You're free to voice your opinion but don't be surprised when your opinion gets you in trouble. If you're an Athiest in the bible belt what the gently caress are you doing there? Sometimes it's not economically viable to move? Especially if you're five years old?
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Sep 26, 2014 14:54
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Segmentation Fault posted:You're free to voice your opinion but don't be surprised when your opinion gets you in trouble. If you're an Athiest in the bible belt what the gently caress are you doing there? I wouldn't even say it's that bad. Yes, you're going to meet more rear end in a top hat Christians than in most places, but you have to be hearing banjos before you need to be afraid of anything. rear end in a top hat Christians are hardly something only atheists deal with either; I think you'll find the majority of other Christians hate people who don't shut up about Jesus. No one likes people being dicks about religion, even if they happen to agree. That's kind of why you shouldn't tell your kid that there is no god until they're old enough to understand "Oh yeah, basically everyone I meet thinks there is I should be careful not to piss them off." Moreover, given how basically every atheist was indoctrinated into one religion or another before later rejecting it, maybe you should let your kid just make up their own drat mind? Arsonist Daria has a new favorite as of 14:58 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 14:54
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losonti tokash posted:Living there? Why is it the job of a minority to accommodate the majority's feelings? I don't go out of my way proclaiming my beliefs from the mountain tops but I also won't have my identity erased because it makes the local religious majority uncomfortable. I don't want to seem like I'm heartless or I'm victim blaming or anything, exurbia loving sucks and I know this firsthand. I can also understand not having the ability to move to a nicer place. However, you need to understand that you're just not going to win a culture war by yourself.
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Sep 26, 2014 15:01
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:That's kind of why you shouldn't tell your kid that there is no god until they're old enough to understand "Oh yeah, basically everyone I meet thinks there is I should be careful not to piss them off." Moreover, given how basically every atheist was indoctrinated into one religion or another before later rejecting it, maybe you should let your kid just make up their own drat mind? By the time they are old enough to have a conversation, it's pretty inevitable that they are going to be exposed to it, and likely be curious about it(well, this could depend on where you live and the people in your family). What are you supposed to do when they ask about it? Tell them not to think about it? Treat it like santa? I totally agree with the idea that you should let them make up their own mind(though it's a given that they are likely to just believe the same as their parents), but I don't think that means "Avoid and ignore the topic entirely!" Apogee15 has a new favorite as of 15:11 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 15:04
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Henchman of Santa posted:Is it really that hard to notice there's a difference between saying "I don't believe in God" and "God isn't real and Jesus isn't real either"? Seriously. It's not hard to be polite and to share your beliefs/opinions without being a smug rear end. Believing or not believing in a god is still a belief. And believing in a creator does not immediately mean "christian." Even Carl Sagan was reluctant to make statements like "god's not real" because he recognized that when you get into the infinite big picture, it's really impossible to tell at this point. Teach your kid to say what you think as this is what I think and not this is what is. Rudeness avoided. Plus it's just a good habit. e: my favorite teacher in high school would interrupt us anytime we started to state an opinion like a fact with 'IN MY OPINION COMMA" and would not allow you to finish your sentence until you re-began it with "In my opinion comma," Rat Patrol has a new favorite as of 15:18 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 15:16
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The Time Dissolver posted:gently caress you, dumbass. Have you lived in rural America or even been there? Because whether it's morally right or not, when the majority of the people you live around are strongly religious what he's saying is true. Unless you enjoy making yourself into a social pariah I guess. I grew up in the Bible Belt as a member of non-religious family (not necessarily atheist, we just didn't do religion or church at all) and it really wasn't a big deal because we didn't make a thing out of it all the time. It was mildly annoying sometimes, but as a child I couldn't exactly go anywhere else and the parents didn't want to leave our extended family so you just go on with your life  Honestly most people didn't know or ask and knowing them they probably just assumed I went to a different church.
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Sep 26, 2014 15:16
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Huntersoninski posted:Seriously. It's not hard to be polite and to share your beliefs/opinions without being a smug rear end. According to the behavior of our new militant atheist friend, it actually is incredibly challenging and offensive to not be allowed to act like a douche to people who have different opinions.
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Sep 26, 2014 15:30
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Picnic Princess posted:According to the behavior of our new militant atheist friend, it actually is incredibly challenging and offensive to not be allowed to act like a douche to people who have different opinions. That's a hell of a definition of militant you've got there. Sorry for standing up for myself. Sorry for loving caring.
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Sep 26, 2014 15:36
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The Time Dissolver posted:That's a hell of a definition of militant you've got there. Sorry for standing up for myself. Sorry for loving caring. I forgive you, but remember, sorry means it won't happen again, you overdramatic baby
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Sep 26, 2014 15:38
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The Time Dissolver posted:That's a hell of a definition of militant you've got there. Sorry for standing up for myself. Sorry for loving caring. I guess I just live in a place where I don't have to go on the offensive when it comes to what a choose to believe and not believe. Like others have said, it's really easy to not be a douche when it comes to expressing opinions. You seem to struggle with that, however. Being atheist here is considered as normal as being religious, so very few people are ever dicks to each other. This kind of behavior is what others wish these kids were being taught, rather than that atheist dad encouraging "I'm 100% right and you're 900% wrong so gently caress you retards!"
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Sep 26, 2014 15:54
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So, I have atheist parents who also taught us very early on that nothing mystical or magical exists (no God, no Santa Claus, no Tooth Fairy, whatever) and one of the very first lessons I remember from them was "If someone thinks one of those things is real and you don't, be polite about it and don't ruin it for them." I don't understand why teaching your kids that reasonable people can disagree is so hard. My parents emphasized that although they didn't believe in God, they knew lots of people who did and they respected those beliefs; I was really curious about religion as a child (and actually ended up believing in God as an adult) and they let me go to church/synagogue/temple with friends to see what the deal was, so I would understand that it's really hard to understand what the right answer to this important question is, or even if there is a right answer. It always just seemed so crazy arrogant to me to say, "Oh, you know the fundamental question that underlies the existence of the universe? Yeah, using my limited human consciousness I have definitely figured out the only correct answer to that." I know that perspective is definitely a product of a) growing up in pretty diverse communities where there were lots of different faiths and also lots of atheists; and b) being taught to be pretty mellow about belief systems by my parents; but I honestly don't understand why other people don't gravitate toward that perspective as adults, because the opposite view seems really stressful and lovely.
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Sep 26, 2014 16:22
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Christianity and atheism are stupid and Norse paganism is the one true faith. Try explaining the lack of frost giants in science terms, Dick Dorkins. 
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Sep 26, 2014 16:28
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Apogee15 posted:By the time they are old enough to have a conversation, it's pretty inevitable that they are going to be exposed to it, and likely be curious about it(well, this could depend on where you live and the people in your family). What are you supposed to do when they ask about it? Tell them not to think about it? Treat it like santa? Well that's fair, and I doubt you'd be able to make it that far without broaching the topic. It's just that, atheists and the irreligious have the option to tell their kid that people believe a lot of stuff religiously and not have to reinforce what they should believe throughout the year. They alone have the real option of allowing their child choice, because even if other parents do honestly believe their children should choose, they're going to follow your example whenever you engage in one ritual or another. I'm not saying I know the perfect way to raise kids or the perfect way to talk about religion. I've given it a ton of thought, since I do want to have at least one kid some day. I'm just saying, if my kid did end up calling out a bunch of Christians about their beliefs being bullshit, I wouldn't blame the school.
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Sep 26, 2014 16:39
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Raising your kid atheist from that age is every bit as indoctrinating as the pledge of allegiance, and is directly harmful to them in a social aspect. Not indoctrinating a child is the same as indoctrinating a child. We learn something new every day here.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:10
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Stoatbringer posted:Not indoctrinating a child is the same as indoctrinating a child. Uh yeah dude, raising them to think "god isn't real" is just forcing your beliefs on your kid and shaping their developmental years.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:11
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losonti tokash posted:Living there? Why is it the job of a minority to accommodate the majority's feelings? I don't go out of my way proclaiming my beliefs from the mountain tops but I also won't have my identity erased because it makes the local religious majority uncomfortable. I'm going to use an example that actual teens have to deal with every day: imagine you're living in one of these Bible Belt areas. Also imagine that, hey, turns out you're having some pretty unchaste feelings toward kids in your class that are the same gender of yourself. You may try to deny it for a while, but eventually you realize that you're gay. Now you're faced with a decision: Do you come out of the closet? Or do you wait around, seeing if maybe it'll be easier in college? Coming out of the closet now means certain harassment and bullying, and possible physical harm, homelessness and death threats. Those who do come out of the closet have a far higher risk of suicide than those who decide to keep it a secret. That's why the whole "It gets better campaign" started. In this example, it's not your job to accommodate the majorities feelings. It's your decision, knowing full well what the consequences could be if you don't erase your identity. But we're not talking about teenagers. We're talking about children who don't have the capacity to know how just saying what their parents believe can lead to ostracization and teasing. As a parent, it might not be the best idea to make that choice for them. Wait until they're older, and they understand the consequences.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:25
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This should end well.  
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Sep 26, 2014 17:31
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Grrl Anachronism posted:This should end well. I don't know what's worse, the possibility that they met because he's also in a mental hospital, or the possibility that they met because he's a doctor at a mental hospital. Or the fact that this is mental patient #2 and that even though the first one fell apart this one will totally be different.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:37
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Don Gato posted:I don't know what's worse, the possibility that they met because he's also in a mental hospital, or the possibility that they met because he's a doctor at a mental hospital. Or the fact that this is mental patient #2 and that even though the first one fell apart this one will totally be different. She is definitely not a doctor, she was a patient herself when she met this new person. This may be even more than #2, but at this point it's getting hard to keep up with where she meets her crazy people. Also '#2' was a teenaged girl. Reanne is 26.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:42
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