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Do goons actually play MP regularly?
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Oct 1, 2014 05:22
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| # ? May 28, 2024 10:51 |
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Based on an earlier conversation I decided to try out Mongolia on a huge 12-civ Great Plains Plus map. I have 8/12 capitals and it just became the industrial era, I can probably finish up before Keshiks are obsolete despite the gigantic map. Holy poo poo, Keshiks are literally all I've ever wanted in a unit.
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Oct 1, 2014 05:23
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Azran posted:Do goons actually play MP regularly? There's two types: The type people are talking about in the thread lately is GMR, which is short for Giant Multiplayer Robot, which is a service that allows for easy coordination of PBEM (Play By EMail) games. You don't use email though, just the GMR client. The second type is a live game played over a day, and, in theory, continued on a weekly basis until finished. I say in theory because I've never completed a multiplayer game that needed to stop, it's either one shot or bust. Secondly, this sort of game rarely happens as people don't show up for whatever reason. I've played in about 4 or 5 in the past 5 months, and most of those were with my private Skype group which no longer really plays.
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Oct 1, 2014 05:34
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Azran posted:Do goons actually play MP regularly? We have several PBEM games going on right now. A few people also do the regular kind I think though I'm not in on any of them. majormonotone posted:Based on an earlier conversation I decided to try out Mongolia on a huge 12-civ Great Plains Plus map. I have 8/12 capitals and it just became the industrial era, I can probably finish up before Keshiks are obsolete despite the gigantic map. I wasn't joking when I said they were the best unit in the game 
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Oct 1, 2014 05:34
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I would love to play a live goon game, but the last one was in I think May.
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Oct 1, 2014 05:43
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HappyHelmet posted:I wasn't joking when I said they were the best unit in the game They really, really are because they are so loving abusable. Fast, bonus movement, ability to move after attacking, 50% bonus to both experience and production of your unique great generals that heal. Yes they get screwed by the promotion system but if you can get March then you'll still have a wall of undying Cavalry when you're forced to promote, oh and 2/3 of the world at least. Honestly though I prefer the Huns because they're actually really good builders too with their free bonus to production on stables. Their Horsemen are basically earlier, resource free Keshiks. They don't get all the bonuses Keshiks do but you get them faster, don't even need to connect horses to get them, and they come with a tier 1 promotion for free at a stage where you likely don't have the luxury of building a barracks. They also get just as hosed by the promotion system, but again by the time you have to upgrade them you really don't care because you ate a neighbor or two. Anyways, as to the conversation of worst/weakest civs, my bottom five are:
Alkydere fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 10:37
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Platystemon posted:I would love to play a live goon game, but the last one was in I think May. Add me on Steam. Saturday is a horrible day for me.
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Oct 1, 2014 10:41
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Azran posted:Do goons actually play MP regularly? I play it a lot, but only over LAN
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Oct 1, 2014 10:46
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I feel bad taking Tithe every single game, but as much as I try to look for alternatives there really is no founder belief that really compares for the vast majority if situations, is there? Everything else gives so little or is too situational. Also, hah, Church Property. AKA the poor man's Tithe.
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Oct 1, 2014 12:08
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I think Pilgrimage may be useful if you manage to get a religion without a decent faith output. And maybe Ceremonial Burial for wide civs. And now I wonder... Is it possible to found or enhance a religion with a captured GP?
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Oct 1, 2014 12:33
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Before BNW, some players preferred Ceremonial Burial, but then it got nerfed in half. Tithe was generally agreed to be the best even then, but now it’s no contest. It’s a shame that culture and faith options specify foreign cities. Peace Loving has that problem and the vulnerability where any human player can declare war to deny you the benefit. Ulvino posted:And now I wonder... Is it possible to found or enhance a religion with a captured GP? Well normally a captured prophet has a religion associated with it already, and you can either spread that religion or create a holy site, but if you managed to capture another civilization’s prophet before they found a religion, it just might be possible. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 12:39
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Platystemon posted:Before BNW, some players preferred Ceremonial Burial, but then it got nerfed in half. Tithe was generally agreed to be the best even then, but now it’s no contest. Yeah, if they weren't foreign only, I'd love so many more Founder beliefs. At least the other tiers have some variation, and Pantheon has a giant, wide pile of good options.
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Oct 1, 2014 12:45
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Kaal posted:Byzantium is only bad at high difficulties where the AI faith production bonuses get absurd. The Dromon is an excellent UU, and the Cataphract is perfectly acceptable. And Iroquois can be ok on some of the special forest maps where everything is a forest. Denmark is definitely pretty bad regardless of map type though. What are the bonuses AI get to faith? On the bonus charts I've seen I didn't notice anything faith specific. I always thought the AI advantage with faith on higher difficulties could be chalked up to starting with more techs (including pottery), being almost impossible to beat to the faith-producing wonders, and being dumb enough to rush the faith policy tree.
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Oct 1, 2014 13:16
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You've never seen the AI do its missionary and great prophet spam? They poo poo those things out and it's incredibly hard even at lower difficulty levels to get any headway outside your borders (and sometimes in them!) with your state religion.
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Oct 1, 2014 13:26
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Spain on a Terra map is good to amazing if you get to Astronomy and Chivalry early. What's not to like about a Settler that can defend itself when it gets to the other continent? Edit. If you don't have Horses by then, expand or buy some. They're not that expensive. biscuits and crazy fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 13:27
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Ulvirich posted:You've never seen the AI do its missionary and great prophet spam? They poo poo those things out and it's incredibly hard even at lower difficulty levels to get any headway outside your borders (and sometimes in them!) with your state religion. I have, but it's usually been by one particular AI in a game that rushed all the faith wonders, completed the piety tree, and/or had a faith natural wonder. I usually don't try to spread my religion outside my borders in higher difficulties because I don't want to waste the time or resources, but in my Babylon game where I was so far ahead in science I had plenty of time to dick around I actually ended up having the dominant religion in every capital city by the end of the game, and that was on Immortal. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the AI did have some static bonus to faith generation I'm not aware of, but in my experience on King/Immortal I haven't seen anything that can't be explained by the AI being willing to play sub-optimally for the purposes of actual victory in order to win at the religion game.
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Oct 1, 2014 14:02
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Last game Poland was making GBS threads out missionaries every 3 turns and trying to convert my Civ. Ended up pushing through World Religion and pissing Poland off at which point I razed their cities. My God can beat up your god 
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Oct 1, 2014 14:20
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If you think about it you can easily get 50 or so faith per turn in the early game just from a couple of faith wonders, having temples and shrines in all your cities, the grand temple, and good relationships with a couple of faith city-states. That's a missionary every 4 turns in the medieval era, and that doesn't even account for faith natural wonders, faith producing pantheon/religion beliefs, holy sites, and any other bonuses you might get from Piety.
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Oct 1, 2014 14:42
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Alkydere posted:Anyways, as to the conversation of worst/weakest civs, my bottom five are: The Ottoman UA is fantastic if there's any oceans at all. Unit maintenance is a massive money sink and the Ottomans get an absurdly huge discount. On a water map the Ottoman UA is worth an extra trade route or two. Polynesia is still pretty drat good on continents. They're basically a poor man's version of Shoshone with their ability to scoot all over the map gobbling up little island ruins. Spain still isn't that bad if you miss your Natural Wonder chances. I'm pretty sure they get double the basic +1 Happiness for discovering natural wonders, so that and 100 free gold for each wonder puts them above most of the bottom tier even if you completely miss out.
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Oct 1, 2014 14:48
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Yeah, I think the AI missionary production is mostly a matter of having a ton of cities, going Piety, actually building shrines/temples in most of their cities, and not having any faith-buy building beliefs or the foresight to save for Great Person purchases in the late game. What else are they going to spend faith on?
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Oct 1, 2014 14:52
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So my latest game I decided to go with Arabia and turn myself into a trading powerhouse since I got a great start with lots of luxuries. I am currently making +135 gpt. I used to have a nice army too until I decided to try and liberate Carthage from the Zulu. I got every other nation to join me in this war and it went poorly. Due to a ship, archers and a flank attack by a hoard of Impi, my siege failed and I was forced to hold off the Zulu army at a pass until peace was declared. now the Zulu are the only ones with a sizable army. Man those Impi are strong. The other nations armies got whipped as well.
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Oct 1, 2014 15:12
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Gabriel Pope posted:The Ottoman UA is fantastic if there's any oceans at all. Unit maintenance is a massive money sink and the Ottomans get an absurdly huge discount. On a water map the Ottoman UA is worth an extra trade route or two. Yeah, I'm not saying they're bad. I'm just saying they're among the weakest in my opinion due to how gimmicky or dependent on certain map scrips they are they are. And I know how hilarious Spain can be. Last time I played as them I got Cerro de Potosoi in an easy expansion slot. +20 gpt from a single tile is hilariously powerful.
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Oct 1, 2014 15:21
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It's really funny to me that Cerro de Potosi is so good with the Spanish, in a historical-funny sense. 
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Oct 1, 2014 15:25
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How is the holy city determined? I always just assumed it was the capitol of the civ, but in one game China took Cape Town and a little into the future they founded a religion with Cape Town as the holy city. Further on Cape Town was liberated meaning we had the strange situation of a CS being a holy city.
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Oct 1, 2014 15:31
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DarthBlingBling posted:How is the holy city determined? I always just assumed it was the capitol of the civ, but in one game China took Cape Town and a little into the future they founded a religion with Cape Town as the holy city. Further on Cape Town was liberated meaning we had the strange situation of a CS being a holy city.  I always thought that AIs automatically settled their prophets in their capital. The holy city is the city where you use the found religion action with a great prophet. I think sometimes it can be worth to move your founder prophet to a second or third city to get the pressure spreading faster towards a clump of city states, for example. Succesive prophets will spawn on the holy city.
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Oct 1, 2014 15:56
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DarthBlingBling posted:How is the holy city determined? I always just assumed it was the capitol of the civ, but in one game China took Cape Town and a little into the future they founded a religion with Cape Town as the holy city. Further on Cape Town was liberated meaning we had the strange situation of a CS being a holy city. It's the city the Great Prophet is standing in when they found the religion. 99% of the time it's the capital (since that's where Great Prophets spawn), but if you lose your capital or get a Great Prophet through unusual means (gift, capture) or simply decide to move your Great Prophet before founding the religion, you can get a non-capital Holy City.
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Oct 1, 2014 15:59
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Alkydere posted:I feel bad taking Tithe every single game, but as much as I try to look for alternatives there really is no founder belief that really compares for the vast majority if situations, is there? Everything else gives so little or is too situational. A bit late, but Interfaith Dialogue is actually pretty good (not, Tithe good, but pretty good). It actually works in favor of the AIs missionary spam even because you don't actually want to convert their cities. Instead you just keep spamming your own missionaries and prophets while sending them anywhere that your religion is weakest so you get a larger science boost. It's not the most amazing thing ever, but I can usually get 2-2.5 free techs out of it before the Renaissance.
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Oct 1, 2014 16:42
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Ulvino posted:
In retrospect China may have lost their capital at this point. I remember them being wiped out eventually.
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Oct 1, 2014 17:19
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DarthBlingBling posted:In retrospect China may have lost their capital at this point. I remember them being wiped out eventually. Yeah, that's the only time I've seen this happen to an AI in my games, too.
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Oct 1, 2014 17:29
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Just wondering, does anyone know what a good counter to the Impi is? My swordsmen get slaughtered by the double attack and they get a bonus vs calvalry and gunpowder.
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Oct 1, 2014 19:01
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jadebullet posted:Just wondering, does anyone know what a good counter to the Impi is? My swordsmen get slaughtered by the double attack and they get a bonus vs calvalry and gunpowder. Well, they come out at the same time as pikemen and you should be using the bonuses of your civilisation to get ahead of the Zulu in some fashion, so I'd say use pikemen supported by composite bows/crossbows and leverage the bonuses your civilisation gives you to outdo the Zulu in another field. They're also not particularly good at attacking cities, so go on the defensive where possible and use your cities as hedgehogs.
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Oct 1, 2014 19:06
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jadebullet posted:Just wondering, does anyone know what a good counter to the Impi is? My swordsmen get slaughtered by the double attack and they get a bonus vs calvalry and gunpowder. Not being forced to fight a war with Shaka right when he's in the middle of his Impi power curve is the answer, but I suspect it may not be the answer you are looking for. To try to put it in a more helpful way, "What is a good counter to England having 20 ships of the line and is pounding the poo poo out of my coastal capital" also gets an answer of "Try not to let things get to that point." Either you have to slow Shaka down, or you need him to fight with another Civ, or you need to wear him down in Defensive wars purely to prune his military. Alternately you need to not face him head on right when Impis are relevant and awesome - you would want to fight him sometime later when they are outclassed by other units. If you have musketmen and cannons, Impi really aren't a big deal anymore. After a while you can pull off all kinds of BS against the computer with a few compbows and melee units screening. Shaka + Impis are a nasty combo though and you need to try to manage the game such that you aren't the one facing them right when they are at their strongest, against a Shaka that is able to pump them out (good econ), and is focusing waging war on YOU during that time.
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Oct 1, 2014 19:08
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Are there guides that specifically help you make the jump from King to the higher difficulties? I want to read something that gives me pointers beyond "Do what you did except better" and I don't want to watch MadDjinn play the game for 8 hours
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Oct 1, 2014 19:56
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Are there guides that specifically help you make the jump from King to the higher difficulties? I want to read something that gives me pointers beyond "Do what you did except better" and I don't want to watch MadDjinn play the game for 8 hours What's stopping you on Emperor? I mean, we can throw general advice at you but probably there's a specific thing that's going wrong and it'd be more effective to focus on that. If you're just nervous about stepping up to Emperor, play Poland or Babylon or Korea.
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Oct 1, 2014 20:05
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The Keshik is absurdly powerful, against the AI it will be able to win wars until you run into airplanes and artillery. On an unrelated note, all my mods just disappeared. I could view them for a moment, then they vanished from the Mods menu and I don't have any. How can I get them back? I tried deleting the moddatabase.db file but it didn't work, I'll restore it now.
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Oct 1, 2014 20:18
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:What's stopping you on Emperor? I mean, we can throw general advice at you but probably there's a specific thing that's going wrong and it'd be more effective to focus on that. Agreed. People overstate the impact of switching between difficulties. Obviously Emperor is a fair step up from King, but playing America on Great Plains on King is much harder than playing Babylon on Archipelago on Emperor.
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Oct 1, 2014 20:53
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Finally making a serious stab at Polynesia Cultural (speaking of going for an easy game going for a civ's strengths) and I'm way too amused by the historical accuracy of this island: Mainly how the island has been almost completely deforested to make Moai (which is what happened on Easter Island). Every single Moai tile on that island used to have a forest on it. Or would it be historically inaccurate since the population is thriving (which didn't happen when the Easter Islanders chopped down the trees to make Moai)? Also, loving how polynesian sky scrapers are bright orange.
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Oct 1, 2014 21:16
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Alkydere posted:Finally making a serious stab at Polynesia Cultural (speaking of going for an easy game going for a civ's strengths) and I'm way too amused by the historical accuracy of this island:
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Oct 1, 2014 21:20
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Poil posted:I'm amazed you got so much flat grassland as Poly. I only ever get plains, tundra, desert (oh gods does the game love useless tiles) and/or a ton of hills so I can't work the drat things. I also got a lot near my capital and Samoa which was nice. My third city's on a cramped little island with no room between all the resources except for maybe a single 1-tile Moai (which are never really worth it) but it makes up for it in other ways. But Nuka Hiva's size and design (seriously, got four 4-culture tiles out of it) are making it a great bastion for culture and tourism.
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Oct 1, 2014 21:48
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| # ? May 28, 2024 10:51 |
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I can't say I ever found Polynesia particularly good at cultural victories. Moai provide culture, it's true, and that translates into tourism later in the game, but they go on tiles you should be putting farms on for food. Brazil's the real tourism powerhouse if you want the easiest possible culture victory.
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Oct 1, 2014 22:11
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