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GreyPowerVan posted:I hope they don't get down on Vice. Those guys produce some of the best content in some of the worst places. Vice is currently enjoying a major scandal caused by killing articles that might offend advertisers.
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Oct 3, 2014 03:33
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I know all the cool kids are saying Ebola's not very infectious, but please PLEASE keep in mind that the bulk of our knowledge of how this virus operates comes from small populations that were quickly stamped out. We now certainly have novel strains that are specializing in aerosol resilience. We know we have these strains because countless iterations of virus have been selectively pressured to reproduce in this manner for months now: those that do it well, live, those that don't, die and Ebola overall is definitely NOT dying! Early in the outbreak every conversation was bracketed by the tut-tuting of "the fear is worse than the disease." Well, we've left that point behind. Yes in a perfect utopian world the combined efforts of ten thousand medics would easily eradicate the virus in weeks, but if such a world existed the virus wouldn't ever be propagated in the first place. We have been stupid, the virus has exploited this by flooding West Africa with quadrillions of novel iterations. They aren't airborne but anyone who isn't wearing a full hazmat suit is vulnerable to symptomatic people in close quarters, even for a moment. Oh, and if the virus evolves to shed BEFORE the host is symptomatic? Don't think that can't happen with essentially unlimited genetic dice rolls.
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Oct 3, 2014 03:37
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Alas Boobylon posted:I know all the cool kids are saying Ebola's not very infectious, but please PLEASE keep in mind that the bulk of our knowledge of how this virus operates comes from small populations that were quickly stamped out. We now certainly have novel strains that are specializing in aerosol resilience. We know we have these strains because countless iterations of virus have been selectively pressured to reproduce in this manner for months now: those that do it well, live, those that don't, die and Ebola overall is definitely NOT dying! Early in the outbreak every conversation was bracketed by the tut-tuting of "the fear is worse than the disease." Well, we've left that point behind. Yes in a perfect utopian world the combined efforts of ten thousand medics would easily eradicate the virus in weeks, but if such a world existed the virus wouldn't ever be propagated in the first place. We have been stupid, the virus has exploited this by flooding West Africa with quadrillions of novel iterations. They aren't airborne but anyone who isn't wearing a full hazmat suit is vulnerable to symptomatic people in close quarters, even for a moment. Oh, and if the virus evolves to shed BEFORE the host is symptomatic? Don't think that can't happen with essentially unlimited genetic dice rolls. I suppose I wonder, what are you adding to the discussion here, is it just that you do not see a sufficient level of fear in what people are saying?
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Oct 3, 2014 03:40
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Nessus posted:Why stop at the hazmat suit? Surely we could also assume the virus can travel through transparent faceplates. Worry not.
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Oct 3, 2014 03:44
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fits my needs posted:I don't think proper containment procedures are being followed in Dallas. Your post freaked me out, but it is wrong. This is one of the residents, not an aid worker. Also you were leaching, so i rehosted it. Here's the series http://www.gazettenet.com/living/health/13803096-95/family-who-hosted-ebola-patient-confined-to-home
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Oct 3, 2014 03:55
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Nessus posted:Why stop at the hazmat suit? Surely we could also assume the virus can travel through transparent faceplates. People are having a grand old time fantasizing about the imminent collapse of human society from rampant Ebola infections. Hardly a page goes by before, "So Ebola is airborne now and our medical establishment is completely corrupt & useless so this is basically Black Death II, right?" 
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Oct 3, 2014 03:56
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Epitope posted:Your post freaked me out, but it is wrong. This is one of the residents, not an aid worker. Also you were leaching, so i rehosted it. Here's the series Why does a resident have access to the people inside? Once again, failure. Thanks for the link.
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Oct 3, 2014 03:58
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Alas Boobylon posted:I know all the cool kids are saying Ebola's not very infectious, but please PLEASE keep in mind that the bulk of our knowledge of how this virus operates comes from small populations that were quickly stamped out. We now certainly have novel strains that are specializing in aerosol resilience. We know we have these strains because countless iterations of virus have been selectively pressured to reproduce in this manner for months now: those that do it well, live, those that don't, die and Ebola overall is definitely NOT dying! Early in the outbreak every conversation was bracketed by the tut-tuting of "the fear is worse than the disease." Well, we've left that point behind. The fear is still worse than the disease, and I'm sure the Africans whose societal infrastructure is collapsing en-masse would confirm that. That rhetoric isn't head-in-the-sand stuff: it's pointing out, generally in fairly pragmatic terms, that mass-hysteria and panic is the most dangerous part of the outbreak.
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Oct 3, 2014 03:59
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Brannock posted:Worry not. You're right, we should all be scared shitless about the virus becoming airborne. First step is to go into posting quarantine. You first, Brannock.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:00
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Zeroisanumber posted:People are having a grand old time fantasizing about the imminent collapse of human society from rampant Ebola infections. Hardly a page goes by before, "So Ebola is airborne now and our medical establishment is completely corrupt & useless so this is basically Black Death II, right?" I don't think anything you wrote is true. Our system is dysfunctional as poo poo, and this is a good time to bring up how bad it is. No one is fantasizing anything except for you.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:01
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Pohl posted:Why does a resident have access to the people inside? Once again, failure. Pohl posted:I don't think anything you wrote is true. Our system is dysfunctional as poo poo, and this is a good time to bring up how bad it is. No one is fantasizing anything except for you.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:01
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Vice is currently enjoying a major scandal caused by killing articles that might offend advertisers. That's actually kind of lovely, then.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:01
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For what it's worthhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/for-quarantined-relatives-in-us-ebola-case-extra-cautions-hope-and-prayer/2014/10/02/add51488-4a5f-11e4-891d-713f052086a0_story.html posted:Fifteen minutes later, two paramedics knocked on the door. Jallah greeted the two men but told them that they couldn’t enter until they put on gloves and facemasks. Also I don't know what's proper protocol, but it seems pretty problematic the hospital isolated the guy for symptoms/travel history consistent with ebola, and then just let his relatives hang out in the waiting room for a while before going home. Obviously they weren't likely to have been contagious at that point, but it seems like they could have done a bit more follow up, instead of waiting 3 days to visit them.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:03
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Pohl posted:Why does a resident have access to the people inside? Once again, failure. Because they can't transmit the virus unless they are symptomatic. The CDC is taking their temp 2x times a day. They are now under an official quarantine order because they weren't always available for their 2x daily temp checks so now they are.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:03
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Alas Boobylon posted:I know all the cool kids are saying Ebola's not very infectious, but please PLEASE keep in mind that the bulk of our knowledge of how this virus operates comes from small populations that were quickly stamped out. We now certainly have novel strains that are specializing in aerosol resilience. We know we have these strains because countless iterations of virus have been selectively pressured to reproduce in this manner for months now: those that do it well, live, those that don't, die and Ebola overall is definitely NOT dying! Early in the outbreak every conversation was bracketed by the tut-tuting of "the fear is worse than the disease." Well, we've left that point behind. Yes in a perfect utopian world the combined efforts of ten thousand medics would easily eradicate the virus in weeks, but if such a world existed the virus wouldn't ever be propagated in the first place. We have been stupid, the virus has exploited this by flooding West Africa with quadrillions of novel iterations. They aren't airborne but anyone who isn't wearing a full hazmat suit is vulnerable to symptomatic people in close quarters, even for a moment. Oh, and if the virus evolves to shed BEFORE the host is symptomatic? Don't think that can't happen with essentially unlimited genetic dice rolls. Ya this is exactly why HIV became an airborne virus oh wait
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Oct 3, 2014 04:05
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Nessus posted:Okay, so how exactly do you get food to these people then? Granting that perhaps they could erect some kind of airlock thing, Dallas clearly doesn't want to do that. Would it also be breaching quarantine if they set it all out there, got everyone out to twenty yards, and told them they could bring it in? A quarantine is useless if people can just walk up and knock on the door. They are people and they deserve respect and compassion, but a quarantine means nothing if people can just drop by and talk to them. I would have hoped that they had people with experience caring for them. You don't put people into quarantine and forget them, you take care of them. That means bringing them food and whatnot.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:05
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Nessus posted:Would it also be breaching quarantine if they set it all out there, got everyone out to twenty yards, and told them they could bring it in? Pretty sure this is what's happening. You guys are just yearning to see the worst possible scenario now.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:05
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Benedick Cuckold posted:You're right, we should all be scared shitless about the virus becoming airborne. First step is to go into posting quarantine. You first, Brannock. Ebola will be inconsequential.  It won't mean anything. It will be a trifle. You pathetic peasant -- why are you panicking? Trust.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:06
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Pohl posted:No one is fantasizing anything except for you. SkySteak posted:What is the worst case in regards to the US? A black death style population loss? It is depressing enough that a similar thing is happening in some areas of West Africa.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:06
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Pohl posted:A quarantine is useless if people can just walk up and knock on the door. They are people and they deserve respect and compassion, but a quarantine means nothing if people can just drop by and talk to them. I would have hoped that they had people with experience caring for them. You don't put people into quarantine and forget them, you take care of them. That means bringing them food and whatnot. The picture you're so angry about is someone giving them food, holy poo poo. People aren't just "dropping by."
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Oct 3, 2014 04:07
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Nessus posted:Is it just that you do not see a sufficient level of fear in what people are saying? I just have a long memory of this outbreak. The people in charge, the CDC, the WHO, have been completely cavalier regarding the ability of the virus to transfer itself from one host to the next. "It can only be spread by direct contact." False. "It's can't survive in aerosol for more than a few seconds." False. "Gloves and Facemask and gown prevent infection." False. Everything they state is about lowering the alertness level, not raising. They're using the game plan they developed from HIV - the fear is worse than the disease. How can they separate the incompetence of the response to the resilience of the virus's evolution? They loving can't. So why don't they assume the virus could be behaving in completely novel ways, when it has thousands and thousands of vectors, people that never even make it out of the bush, let alone get analyzed by virologists. Yes, people aren't loving scared enough. I hope I'm wrong, but really, Ebola is an evolving killing machine - perfectly specialized to grow stronger every time it kills or cripples us, and its basically going to destroy the places its taken root in. We need to stop focusing on stamping it out and start focusing on amputating the regions that are heavily infected. Travel bans, trade bans, blockades, Nigerians machine gunning Liberians until they go home and let the virus burn out in their homes, (the only way to stop it where its fully taken root). Hope I'm wrong! Really do!
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Oct 3, 2014 04:08
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Pohl posted:A quarantine is useless if people can just walk up and knock on the door. They are people and they deserve respect and compassion, but a quarantine means nothing if people can just drop by and talk to them. I would have hoped that they had people with experience caring for them. You don't put people into quarantine and forget them, you take care of them. That means bringing them food and whatnot. That picture was before the quarantine order and remember, the people are under twice daily checks for symptoms so we actually know that they aren't contagious.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:10
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Alas Boobylon posted:I just have a long memory of this outbreak. The people in charge, the CDC, the WHO, have been completely cavalier regarding the ability of the virus to transfer itself from one host to the next. "It can only be spread by direct contact." False. "It's can't survive in aerosol for more than a few seconds." False. "Gloves and Facemask and gown prevent infection." False. Everything they state is about lowering the alertness level, not raising. They're using the game plan they developed from HIV - the fear is worse than the disease. How can they separate the incompetence of the response to the resilience of the virus's evolution? They loving can't. So why don't they assume the virus could be behaving in completely novel ways, when it has thousands and thousands of vectors, people that never even make it out of the bush, let alone get analyzed by virologists. Yes, people aren't loving scared enough. I hope I'm wrong, but really, Ebola is an evolving killing machine - perfectly specialized to grow stronger every time it kills or cripples us, and its basically going to destroy the places its taken root in. We need to stop focusing on stamping it out and start focusing on amputating the regions that are heavily infected. Travel bans, trade bans, blockades, Nigerians machine gunning Liberians until they go home and let the virus burn out in their homes, (the only way to stop it where its fully taken root). Hope I'm wrong! Really do! This still isn't GBS.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:10
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Alas Boobylon posted:I just have a long memory of this outbreak. The people in charge, the CDC, the WHO, have been completely cavalier regarding the ability of the virus to transfer itself from one host to the next. "It can only be spread by direct contact." False. "It's can't survive in aerosol for more than a few seconds." False. "Gloves and Facemask and gown prevent infection." False. Everything they state is about lowering the alertness level, not raising. They're using the game plan they developed from HIV - the fear is worse than the disease. How can they separate the incompetence of the response to the resilience of the virus's evolution? They loving can't. So why don't they assume the virus could be behaving in completely novel ways, when it has thousands and thousands of vectors, people that never even make it out of the bush, let alone get analyzed by virologists. Yes, people aren't loving scared enough. I hope I'm wrong, but really, Ebola is an evolving killing machine - perfectly specialized to grow stronger every time it kills or cripples us, and its basically going to destroy the places its taken root in. We need to stop focusing on stamping it out and start focusing on amputating the regions that are heavily infected. Travel bans, trade bans, blockades, Nigerians machine gunning Liberians until they go home and let the virus burn out in their homes, (the only way to stop it where its fully taken root). Hope I'm wrong! Really do! You are also sort of calling for pre-emptive genocide here, which I think is generally held to be morally unacceptable.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:10
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Trabisnikof posted:Because they can't transmit the virus unless they are symptomatic. The CDC is taking their temp 2x times a day. They are now under an official quarantine order because they weren't always available for their 2x daily temp checks so now they are. The idea of a quarantine is, you don't expose people to a possible virus. It doesn't matter if the people aren't showing symptoms, etc. You keep contact to a minimum. Trabisnikof posted:That picture was before the quarantine order... Well that changes everything I've said then.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:11
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Alas Boobylon posted:Hope I'm wrong! Really do! It's not the Borg or anything, it's a pathogen. Influenza kills more people every year than Ebola ever has, but I don't see threads of people panicking about that.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:11
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Pohl posted:The idea of a quarantine is, you don't expose people to a possible virus. It doesn't matter if the people aren't showing symptoms, etc. You keep contact to a minimum. Right, which is why once they were under the quarantine order they placed a police officer at their door. They were only placed under quarantine to make it easier to observe them.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:11
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Someone was asking a question, they weren't saying it was going to happen. This is the stupid fearmongering you are looking for: Alas Boobylon posted:I just have a long memory of this outbreak. The people in charge, the CDC, the WHO, have been completely cavalier regarding the ability of the virus to transfer itself from one host to the next. "It can only be spread by direct contact." False. "It's can't survive in aerosol for more than a few seconds." False. "Gloves and Facemask and gown prevent infection." False. Everything they state is about lowering the alertness level, not raising. They're using the game plan they developed from HIV - the fear is worse than the disease. How can they separate the incompetence of the response to the resilience of the virus's evolution? They loving can't. So why don't they assume the virus could be behaving in completely novel ways, when it has thousands and thousands of vectors, people that never even make it out of the bush, let alone get analyzed by virologists. Yes, people aren't loving scared enough. I hope I'm wrong, but really, Ebola is an evolving killing machine - perfectly specialized to grow stronger every time it kills or cripples us, and its basically going to destroy the places its taken root in. We need to stop focusing on stamping it out and start focusing on amputating the regions that are heavily infected. Travel bans, trade bans, blockades, Nigerians machine gunning Liberians until they go home and let the virus burn out in their homes, (the only way to stop it where its fully taken root). Hope I'm wrong! Really do!
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Oct 3, 2014 04:12
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Zeroisanumber posted:It's not the Borg or anything, it's a pathogen. Influenza kills more people every year than Ebola ever has, but I don't see threads of people panicking about that. This is a stupid argument considering that Ebola is on course to kill a lot more people in 2015 in West Africa than every other infectious disease combined.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:13
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Ebola is a short-lived memory -- perhaps, even, a meme -- in human thought.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:14
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:This is a stupid argument considering that Ebola is on course to kill a lot more people in 2015 in West Africa than every other infectious disease combined. Source? I'm particularly interested in the numbers you used for "all other infections diseases combined" in Africa. This being D+D and not GBS you did make a calculation right?
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Oct 3, 2014 04:15
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The real danger I'm concerned about is Ebola evolving to become transmissible backwards through time.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:16
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Alas Boobylon posted:I just have a long memory of this outbreak. The people in charge, the CDC, the WHO, have been completely cavalier regarding the ability of the virus to transfer itself from one host to the next. "It can only be spread by direct contact." False. "It's can't survive in aerosol for more than a few seconds." False. "Gloves and Facemask and gown prevent infection." False. Everything they state is about lowering the alertness level, not raising. They're using the game plan they developed from HIV - the fear is worse than the disease. How can they separate the incompetence of the response to the resilience of the virus's evolution? They loving can't. So why don't they assume the virus could be behaving in completely novel ways, when it has thousands and thousands of vectors, people that never even make it out of the bush, let alone get analyzed by virologists. Yes, people aren't loving scared enough. I hope I'm wrong, but really, Ebola is an evolving killing machine - perfectly specialized to grow stronger every time it kills or cripples us, and its basically going to destroy the places its taken root in. We need to stop focusing on stamping it out and start focusing on amputating the regions that are heavily infected. Travel bans, trade bans, blockades, Nigerians machine gunning Liberians until they go home and let the virus burn out in their homes, (the only way to stop it where its fully taken root). Hope I'm wrong! Really do! Wow you're really hosed up about this, man. Maybe you should take some time off, go rent a cabin in the Ozarks or something and wait to calm down.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:16
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Trabisnikof posted:Right, which is why once they were under the quarantine order they placed a police officer at their door. They were only placed under quarantine to make it easier to observe them. I didn't know that picture was pre quarantine. I apologize and I'm sorry.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:16
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Pohl posted:I didn't know that picture was pre quarantine. I apologize and I'm sorry. To be fair, its horrible image control regardless. Not exactly inspiring confidence in the public even if it ends up not being as dangerous as it appears.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:18
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Alas Boobylon posted:I just have a long memory of this outbreak. The people in charge, the CDC, the WHO, have been completely cavalier regarding the ability of the virus to transfer itself from one host to the next. "It can only be spread by direct contact." False. "It's can't survive in aerosol for more than a few seconds." False. "Gloves and Facemask and gown prevent infection." False. Everything they state is about lowering the alertness level, not raising. They're using the game plan they developed from HIV - the fear is worse than the disease. How can they separate the incompetence of the response to the resilience of the virus's evolution? They loving can't. So why don't they assume the virus could be behaving in completely novel ways, when it has thousands and thousands of vectors, people that never even make it out of the bush, let alone get analyzed by virologists. Yes, people aren't loving scared enough. I hope I'm wrong, but really, Ebola is an evolving killing machine - perfectly specialized to grow stronger every time it kills or cripples us, and its basically going to destroy the places its taken root in. We need to stop focusing on stamping it out and start focusing on amputating the regions that are heavily infected. Travel bans, trade bans, blockades, Nigerians machine gunning Liberians until they go home and let the virus burn out in their homes, (the only way to stop it where its fully taken root). Hope I'm wrong! Really do! Viruses tend to mutate to become less deadly, not more. Survival of a virus depends on host survival. Just as they put pressure on their hosts to develop better defenses, hosts put pressure on viruses to become less virulent. When a virus is less virulent, it's more likely to transmit to another host. http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/071201_adenovirus
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Oct 3, 2014 04:20
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FWIW re: panic/mass hysteria, my housemate has been following this here and elsewhere for months and he's about one more "'we have this under control' - CDC" from packing up and heading into the woods (he was also out-of-state at Emory yesterday for unrelated reasons). I get that the CDC needs to take things more seriously and that someone needs to tell them that, but drilling the fear of poo poo-blood apocalypse scenarios into your average layreader with all the mutation what-ifs isn't going to help that at all. Let's educate people and leave the theorizing to qualified individuals.
zgrowler2 fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 04:20
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:This is a stupid argument considering that Ebola is on course to kill a lot more people in 2015 in West Africa than every other infectious disease combined. The Flu killed 284,000 in 2009. If you count the number of deaths it caused indirectly, it's probably closer to a half-million. So, no, it's not a stupid argument.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:22
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zgrowler2 posted:FWIW re: panic/mass hysteria, my housemate has been following this here and elsewhere for months and he's about one more "'we have this under control' - CDC" from packing up and heading into the woods (he was also out-of-state at Emory yesterday for unrelated reasons). I get that the CDC needs to take things more seriously and that someone needs to tell them that, but drilling the fear of poo poo-blood apocalypse scenarios into your average layreader with all the mutation what-ifs isn't going to help that at all. Let's educate people and leave the theorizing to the officials. No one is panicking, except that one guy. Why does everyone think we are panicking? We are talking about how loving stupid our government and healthcare systems are.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:23
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Pohl posted:No one is panicking, except that one guy. Why does everyone think we are panicking? We are talking about how loving stupid our government and healthcare systems are. I'm referring specifically to the one guy. Possibly also sources external to this thread, but mostly him.
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Oct 3, 2014 04:24
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