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moths posted:rap werewolves, etc. Kinda wanna play this.
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Oct 8, 2014 16:07
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Gilok posted:Kinda wanna play this. Eazy-E, Bone Gnawer Galliard. It writes itself.
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Oct 8, 2014 16:16
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Loomer posted:Eazy-E, Bone Gnawer Galliard. It writes itself. And his rival, the Glass Walker Techno-DJ.
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Oct 8, 2014 16:21
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As someone who is normally pretty "meh" on OWoD, DAV20 looks really cool and the deluxe edition concept looks the best kinds of geeky.
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Oct 8, 2014 17:03
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Luminous Obscurity posted:As someone who is normally pretty "meh" on OWoD, DAV20 looks really cool and the deluxe edition concept looks the best kinds of geeky. They based it off the Sandman omnibus, which is a pretty classy book.
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Oct 8, 2014 17:19
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Luminous Obscurity posted:As someone who is normally pretty "meh" on OWoD, DAV20 looks really cool and the deluxe edition concept looks the best kinds of geeky. Is this book done using the oWoD system? Or can it be used in the current one?
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Oct 8, 2014 17:19
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Speaking of Mages doing immortality the right/wrong way, what combination of Arcana would it be to be able to produce an effect akin to Doctor Who regeneration or the D&D Reincarnation spell, where a dying mage casts a spell that rebuilds their body into a random young, healthy, intact one? How much Hubris would such an act have? I'm considering trying to homebrew something relating to that up, with themes of contiguity of awareness versus contiguity of identity and motifs relating to molting, shedding skin, and migration. I assume fairly high Life would be required, but I'm not sure what else would be involved.
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Oct 8, 2014 17:49
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Pfft, Hubris. Who the hell does the natural order think it is, anyway?!
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Oct 8, 2014 18:51
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Cryophage posted:I mean, it makes sense to hunt down Tremere-alikes for the same reason it makes sense to hunt down other magical serialkillers, but it seems odd that "Legacies who shape their physical forms past humanity who don’t survive beyond death have to make their status as not-liches exceedingly clear at Convocation." I assume that cracking the mortality barrier inevitably removes disfiguring yourself or transfiguring yourself in subtractive or destructive ways. If you could become immortal by just rendering yourself so healthy that your body never deteriorated with age, everyone would do that and the word "lich" wouldn't even exist in the Awakened lexicon. In practice, actually becoming ageless and undying is much more ruinous to your humanity than growing tentacles or something - you always have to hack away at the human condition and then staple your soul and nimbus to whatever scraps of ephemera or dust-dry skeleton remains afterward.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:54
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Pope Guilty posted:Pfft, Hubris. Who the hell does the natural order think it is, anyway?!
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Oct 8, 2014 18:54
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jagadaishio posted:Speaking of Mages doing immortality the right/wrong way, what combination of Arcana would it be to be able to produce an effect akin to Doctor Who regeneration or the D&D Reincarnation spell, where a dying mage casts a spell that rebuilds their body into a random young, healthy, intact one? How much Hubris would such an act have? I'm considering trying to homebrew something relating to that up, with themes of contiguity of awareness versus contiguity of identity and motifs relating to molting, shedding skin, and migration. There is a "Steal Body" spell for Death masters with life 3 but you can't create a new living body permanently simply because of the nature of magic as a basic mage.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:58
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I bet you can in 2E, since they've said they're not going to be leaning on the general ban against spells with lasting (rather than high-duration) effects as hard. Taking a huge pile of clay, using Life 4/Matter 4 to transmute it into a perfect simulacrum of your younger body, and then using mastery in something like Mind/Death/Prime to cleanly sever your self, soul, and nimbus from your old body and attach it "permanently" to the new one would seem to be practical. Here's what I assume, though: 1) Unless you do a trick like that with archmastery (for example, you need the practice of Dynamics to get your mind and soul to actually grow with and adapt to your new body rather than just sit inside it and pilot it around), you're going to see increasingly unpleasant side effects from inhabiting a copy of your body rather than your actual body that eventually render you into a lich in practice 2) That's only doable as a ritual, and the ritual will only work correctly with specific and ghoulish sacraments like "a human being (maybe even a mage???) as young or younger than the body you are conjuring" 3) Both...? Edit: On the topic, here's what I hope for mage 2E: I hope all rituals require sacraments and I hope that 2E is more aggressive about specifying that some ritual effects simply can't succeed without sacraments of a certain kind, that some ritual effects scale in power not with the casting roll per se but with the quality of the sacrament used, etc. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:06
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:It's only the "natural" order because of the Lie. Teach the controversy. And as with creationism in the real world, that line is generally code for "wah, reality doesn't conform to my delusions, wah." More seriously, it's right there in the Seers' book; the Exarch of Death is based around gradation of the dead, not the inevitability of it. So yeah, natural order is that things do die, and everything is ultimately temporary, even the end of the universe. Moros understand this as part of their Awakening; true immortality is genuinely a Thing That Should Not Be. End of story, it's in their very writeup (which has also been spoiled), have a nice day.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:14
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What kind of PC can't destroy all their enemies, accomplish all of their life's goals, and Ascend to godhood all in a single decade after Awakening?
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Oct 8, 2014 19:14
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Alright, humor me, but... why? A spell which casts off your current age, appearance, and other things like injuries by transforming your current body into a random new human form seems entirely different in concept and theme than transplanting your mind and soul into a new body, and not at all the same thing as creating new life. For context - in case anyone's unfamiliar with Doctor Who or D&D spell lists - the effect I'm looking to produce is basically one which allows, for example, an old, critically-injured male Asian mage shed his current form into that of, say, a randomized young, uninjured, Latino body. Creating a separate body and transferring yourself into it goes entirely cross-theme - it should be more along the lines of a snake shedding its skin, or a butterfly emerging from its chrysalis. If that kind of effect isn't possible - gaining youth and health in an act of randomized transformation where you permanently cast aside your old physical identity - let me know. I'm happy to admit I'm not the most well-acquainted with what Awakening Arcana are and aren't capable of. But things that create a similar effect with completely different themes and motifs won't really be relevant for the concept I'm playing around with.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:18
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Erebro posted:And as with creationism in the real world, that line is generally code for "wah, reality doesn't conform to my delusions, wah."
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Oct 8, 2014 19:20
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jagadaishio posted:Alright, humor me, but... why? A spell which casts off your current age, appearance, and other things like injuries by transforming your current body into a random new human form seems entirely different in concept and theme than transplanting your mind and soul into a new body, and not at all the same thing as creating new life. This is probably entirely possible, but because of the top-down thematic directive to make immortality really difficult to achieve for non-archmasters (perhaps even impossible to achieve in non-creepy ways), it's probably the case that the spell would only work if you made some immense sacrifices in the course of casting it, or that the break between your old body and your new one would have side effects that dehumanize you in some creeping way, or both.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:24
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Flipside: if your appearance, personality, health and...everything except continuity of memory are different now, what's the practical difference between this form of immortality and forcibly sticking your memories in someone else's mind? I mean, besides that you probably didn't just kill another person, just yourself.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:32
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Ferrinus posted:This is probably entirely possible, but because of the top-down thematic directive to make immortality really difficult to achieve for non-archmasters (perhaps even impossible to achieve in non-creepy ways), it's probably the case that the spell would only work if you made some immense sacrifices in the course of casting it, or that the break between your old body and your new one would have side effects that dehumanize you in some creeping way, or both. Okay, that's more like it. I'm hoping for the consequences to be more along the lines of hubris, mental changes, or loss of identity. After all, you're not just casting off a shell, you're casting of the total physical representation of your Self in favor of continued/new life. A contiguity of awareness, but not contiguity of form/physical identity. So, any suggestions? Act of Hubris, loss of memories, changes to personality traits like Virtues and Vices? I'm going more for personal, internal horror - the shock that everyone feels a touch of when they look back on who they used to be a decade ago and realize they're now a different person, but sudden, immediate, and larger. I'm unironically drawing on Doctor Who here for some of my inspiration, where each regeneration gives the Doctor not just a new appearance and a rejuvenated, healthy body, but also personality changes, despite contiguity of awareness and macro-identity. And, more to my original point, what Arcana would be needed, and at what levels, and what should it cost, to use a rote like this? I'm really pretty clueless when it comes to eyeballing Arcana - all I'm sure of is that Life would be needed, and even then, I'm not sure how much.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:37
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Mors Rattus posted:Flipside: if your appearance, personality, health and...everything except continuity of memory are different now, what's the practical difference between this form of immortality and forcibly sticking your memories in someone else's mind? That's exactly some of the personal horror I'm hoping to play up, rather than play down.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:38
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A Doctor Who reincarnation should definitely change your Virtue and Vice, at a minimum.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:39
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Why not make a legacy that staples your soul onto whoever else takes up the legacy? You wouldn't be truly immortal in your own body but your self and mind would be intact, and you could help out new mages through the generations. Obviously this would require insane levels of trust between master and apprentice, and has the potential for all sorts of abuse, but this is mage - that comes with the territory.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:40
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jagadaishio posted:So, any suggestions? Act of Hubris, loss of memories, changes to personality traits like Virtues and Vices? I'm going more for personal, internal horror - the shock that everyone feels a touch of when they look back on who they used to be a decade ago and realize they're now a different person, but sudden, immediate, and larger. I'm unironically drawing on Doctor Who here for some of my inspiration, where each regeneration gives the Doctor not just a new appearance and a rejuvenated, healthy body, but also personality changes, despite contiguity of awareness and macro-identity. I might make it work perfectly fine if you lose Skills, Attributes, Gnosis and Arcana, literally restarting as a new or mostly-new mage. The more of your original personality and arcane power you attempt to hang onto and cram into a refreshed body that hasn't become accustomed to it, the more rapidly you warp/age towards your original self, or the worse paradoxes you cause/constantly suffer from, or something like that. quote:And, more to my original point, what Arcana would be needed, and at what levels, and what should it cost, to use a rote like this? I'm really pretty clueless when it comes to eyeballing Arcana - all I'm sure of is that Life would be needed, and even then, I'm not sure how much. At minimum I'd use Patterning Life (to physically transubstantiate your body) and Unmaking Time (to scour away your property of "having gotten old"). To that I'd probably add Patterning/Unraveling Prime and Mind to reconfigure + partially flense away your existing knowledge and arcane power so that your mental and spiritual aspects are also ready for a fresh start.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:57
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Ferrinus posted:At minimum I'd use Patterning Life (to physically transubstantiate your body) and Unmaking Time (to scour away your property of "having gotten old"). To that I'd probably add Patterning/Unraveling Prime and Mind to reconfigure + partially flense away your existing knowledge and arcane power so that your mental and spiritual aspects are also ready for a fresh start. And those are at what dot levels, respectively? Again, not at all a master of what Arcana do at any given level.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:01
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jagadaishio posted:And those are at what dot levels, respectively? Again, not at all a master of what Arcana do at any given level. Patterning and Unraveling are four dots, Making and Unmaking are five dots.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:02
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Liches get the gently caress out, it's time to talk more aboutmoths posted:rap werewolves One of the few good ideas scattered about the Forsaken Chronicler's Guide was the setting hack where werewolves had to draw out Essence through ritualized competitions and displays of dominance, and local gatherings of werewolves would take the form of various modern showdowns and contests, not all of which take the form of physical combat. The metaphysics used to prop the concept up were kind of vague and confusing, but anything that proposes that the main reason the werewolves in your metropolitan area get together is to throw down in sick rap battles is worth it to me.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:03
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Ferrinus posted:Patterning and Unraveling are four dots, Making and Unmaking are five dots. So, this should be - at absolute minimum - a Life 4/Time 5 rote?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:04
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jagadaishio posted:And those are at what dot levels, respectively? Again, not at all a master of what Arcana do at any given level. Initiate (*) Knowing Signifying Unveiling Apprentice (**) Perfecting Ruling Veiling Disciple (***) Fraying Weaving Adept (****) Patterning Unraveling Master (*****) Making Unmaking
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Oct 8, 2014 20:04
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Werewolves generating points of essence by having contests with each other is stupid. Werewolves should generate essence by running things down and eating their hearts. Those aren't canon. The actual game has: * Compelling/Knowing/Unveiling ** Ruling/Shielding/Veiling *** Fraying/Perfecting/Weaving **** Patterning/Unraveling ***** Making/Unmaking
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Oct 8, 2014 20:06
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Quick, what's worse: werewolf rap battles or the adamantine arrow lawyer who fights his battles in the courtroom
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Oct 8, 2014 20:09
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Werewolf rap battles. The Arrow might at least be spending their after-hours at the dojo to eventually become a shounen badass.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:11
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tatankatonk posted:Quick, what's worse: werewolf rap battles or the adamantine arrow lawyer who fights his battles in the courtroom What about a Adamantine Arrow lawyer who fights his rap battles in the courtroom?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:16
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Robotic Folksinger posted:What about a Adamantine Arrow lawyer who fights his rap battles in the courtroom? Somewhere a Capcom employee just got an erection.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:25
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Ferrinus posted:Werewolf rap battles. The Arrow might at least be spending their after-hours at the dojo to eventually become a shounen badass. True Shonen badasses join the Silver Ladder to fight the evil secret masters of reality. Arrows are side-characters present only to fill out the Tournament Arc.  No but seriously, Werewolf Rap Battles are great. Frenzying (and being grappled by everyone nearby) would be the ultimate losing condition.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:28
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One of the people in my Mage game wants to summon a demon, specifically greed/pride. Anyone got some good ideas for minor/major/deadly tasks for a high school mastigos and his friends to undertake?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:29
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:It's only the "natural" order because of the Lie. Teach the controversy. The Psychopomp is the fear of death, that you'll be denied the afterlife. That's the Lie - the truth is that everyone dies, and noone knows what happens to souls afterwards.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:36
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Dave Brookshaw posted:The Psychopomp is the fear of death, that you'll be denied the afterlife. That's the Lie - the truth is that everyone dies, and noone knows what happens to souls afterwards. Don't they go to the Underworld though? Or is that just ghost storage? I'll admit, a lot of my confusion about death and the Lie might stem from my intro to the system being your The Soul Cage campaign, which probably isn't strictly canon. VanSandman posted:Why not make a legacy that staples your soul onto whoever else takes up the legacy? You wouldn't be truly immortal in your own body but your self and mind would be intact, and you could help out new mages through the generations. Obviously this would require insane levels of trust between master and apprentice, and has the potential for all sorts of abuse, but this is mage - that comes with the territory. This was actually one of the villains in the first Mage game I ever ran; he was one of my players' master. Though in that case it wasn't so much trust as it was a case of (deliberately) neglecting to research the Legacy being offered by a semi-Sinister recluse. I have fond memories of that campaign; it opened on a cabal of bright-eyed Mystagogue explorers and ended with the party being comprised of a Seer, Banisher, Lich, Mad, and Scelestus.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:30
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No, actually werewolves doing competitive poetry slams is extremely my poo poo. Tribal cultures having communal rituals is great.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:46
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VanSandman posted:Why not make a legacy that staples your soul onto whoever else takes up the legacy? You wouldn't be truly immortal in your own body but your self and mind would be intact, and you could help out new mages through the generations. Obviously this would require insane levels of trust between master and apprentice, and has the potential for all sorts of abuse, but this is mage - that comes with the territory. Grimoire of Grimoires has something similar, where you take on a Legacy that eventually turns you into a duplicate of the grimoire's maker. It's Extremely Slow Dollhouse.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:58
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Cryophage posted:Don't they go to the Underworld though? Or is that just ghost storage? I'll admit, a lot of my confusion about death and the Lie might stem from my intro to the system being your The Soul Cage campaign, which probably isn't strictly canon. The Underworld and the status of ghosts vis a vis souls are kind of a mystery to everyone, really. (I mean, mages do go there and pull ghosts out of there, but a ghost isn't the same thing as a soul at all, and the Underworld itself makes very little sense in any worldview.)
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Oct 9, 2014 00:07
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