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Angry Walrus posted:Is Korea really that good when both of its' unique units get rid of the whole point of making that unit in the first place? Yeah, the science boost is pretty insane. I didn't know about the reduced penalties on huge maps, that explains why happiness has been such a piece of cake to maintain in my current game. The inca have 30-40 cities and are currently taking over everything but I should be able to get to space by the time they get close.
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Oct 7, 2014 23:24
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Angry Walrus posted:Is Korea really that good when both of its' unique units get rid of the whole point of making that unit in the first place? Not really. Trebs are awful city attacking units anyway, but giving them a huge defensive bonus and changing their role makes them worth making. Caravels are valuable for exploring, but Navigation is only a tech away, and tortleships have a long shelf life. Again, a huge role change, but you can work around it.
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Oct 7, 2014 23:25
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Unique units are almost never the reason to pick a civ (exception: Keshiks). Battering ram? Siege towers?
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Oct 7, 2014 23:25
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Cythereal posted:Battering ram? Siege towers? Are they really good enough on their own to justify choosing that civ? I admit I haven't played with either civ in question. I mean, there's plenty of good unique units out there; I was just saying "you shouldn't say "this civ is bad" just because its UUs are underwhelming."
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Oct 7, 2014 23:34
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The only downside to Korea is the UU which replaces the Caravel means you can't explore the oceans early. On any non-island map, that's probably not a big deal. The upside to Korea is you can tech into privateers/frigates (so you can go ocean-exploring) really, really fast, so you probably come out even in the long run.
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Oct 7, 2014 23:37
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Do you pay for maintenance if you build roads inside a City-State influence zone?
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Oct 7, 2014 23:37
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Just your own territory. Go nuts in other civs!
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Oct 7, 2014 23:43
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alcaras posted:Any tips? I'm still struggling with 4-city Tradition on Immortal. (I could, in theory, post a VoD of what I'm doing if folks would offer advice.) For me the changing point was when i started to realize the things i did to piss of the AI and adjust accordingly. Anything from proxy settling to being the wrong religion to just existing warrants a change of strategy towards some AI's. Before Deity i was going max simcity on all my cities. Sometimes you have to realize that building a shrine in all cities just isn't as important as building a comp bow. Some civs such as Arabia and England might also require preemptive wars which i did not really do before deity either. Another thing i found useful was specializing my cities and knowing what roles each city was going to fill before i settled it. Just knowing if you want to build the iron works and several of the guilds in your capital or in your expansions makes a huge difference towards their usefulness. I also don't mind looking at VoD's.
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Oct 7, 2014 23:49
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Palleon posted:Do you pay for maintenance if you build roads inside a City-State influence zone? Yeah, just roads in your territory and roads you put in unclaimed land cost maint. I'll have to try a Liberty/Pyramid offensive roadspam game sometime.
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Oct 8, 2014 00:43
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It's a little-known fact that workers are actually a stealth combat unit, if you have a neighbour you need to drag down and a spare worker, build roads in their territory to force the neighbour to pay upkeep. The AI never notices when you're doing this and won't get angry.
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Oct 8, 2014 04:39
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:It's a little-known fact that workers are actually a stealth combat unit, if you have a neighbour you need to drag down and a spare worker, build roads in their territory to force the neighbour to pay upkeep. The AI never notices when you're doing this and won't get angry. That’s too much effort for me (and probably not worth it when you factor in opportunity cost and upkeep on the workers), but I do pillage roads in the neutral territory between cities.
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Oct 8, 2014 04:49
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Doesn't the ai not care about money anyway?
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Oct 8, 2014 11:44
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Fhqwhgads posted:Doesn't the ai not care about money anyway? They have a lot less money in BNW, especially earlier in the game. Negative income should at least tank their science output and keep them from doing things like purchasing walls when you roll up on one of their cities. Also keeps them from doing research agreements.
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Oct 8, 2014 17:05
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I think my copy of the game has a cursed version of Poland. I keep restarting to see nothing but salt around my capital and not getting any pasture-able resources. I mean salt's amazing to have, but I'd really, really like to get some mileage out of my UB.
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Oct 8, 2014 17:58
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Pvt.Scott posted:They have a lot less money in BNW, especially earlier in the game. Negative income should at least tank their science output and keep them from doing things like purchasing walls when you roll up on one of their cities. Also keeps them from doing research agreements. I always see a number of AIs with low but passable amounts of gold, some that lost a war and are hemorrhaging money, and a couple like Shaka with +2000 GPT and 30,000 gold in reserve.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:20
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Is Hiwatha's AI designed to poo poo cities every 3 panels or is it just my games? I know the AI players in general just love to do it, but he always seems to have the most cities around the midgame.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:39
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KillerQueen posted:Is Hiwatha's AI designed to poo poo cities every 3 panels or is it just my games? I know the AI players in general just love to do it, but he always seems to have the most cities around the midgame. Yes he is. Hiawatha literally settles cities constantly.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:43
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Hiawatha still thinks he's playing Civ 3.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:46
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KillerQueen posted:Is Hiwatha's AI designed to poo poo cities every 3 panels or is it just my games? I know the AI players in general just love to do it, but he always seems to have the most cities around the midgame. There's a website with a nice pretty table of all the AI personality biases. Hiawatha has a 9 in expansion (out of 10, which can adjust by 2 up to 10 or down to 7) which makes him super expansionistic. The only one who's higher is Shaka at 11, but he also has really huge War and Offense scores which means he spends a bunch of time building combat units, while Hiawatha is fairly peaceful so he takes all that production and puts it into settlers instead.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:11
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Glidergun posted:Hiawatha has a 9 in expansion (out of 10, which can adjust by 2 up to 10 or down to 7) which makes him super expansionistic. The only one who's higher is Shaka at 11, but he also has really huge War and Offense scores which means he spends a bunch of time building combat units, while Hiawatha is fairly peaceful so he takes all that production and puts it into settlers instead. However, if you let him survive until he gets Iron Working, guarantee he'll have so many cities that he'll just poo poo out Mohawk Warriors and ruin your day.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:26
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What's the best generic civilization to learn the game? I've got the basics figured out, but having a different civ with different abilities every game is still too confusing, so I'd like to just pick one and stick with it for a while.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:02
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Mentos Dan posted:What's the best generic civilization to learn the game? I've got the basics figured out, but having a different civ with different abilities every game is still too confusing, so I'd like to just pick one and stick with it for a while. Rome is pretty good for beginners. They have some strong early game units, but their UA is straightforward and useful: every building you build in the capital is cheaper to build in other cities afterwards.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:04
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Arguably Denmark is most generic (by virtue of being weakest?)
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Oct 8, 2014 23:08
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Mentos Dan posted:What's the best generic civilization to learn the game? I've got the basics figured out, but having a different civ with different abilities every game is still too confusing, so I'd like to just pick one and stick with it for a while. Poland's pretty good with their free Policies. They're nice and generalized while also being strong enough to give a learning player some training wheels while they learn the reigns. Alkydere fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 23:13
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Mentos Dan posted:What's the best generic civilization to learn the game? I've got the basics figured out, but having a different civ with different abilities every game is still too confusing, so I'd like to just pick one and stick with it for a while. Poland, Babylon, or China are generally considered the best overall Civs in the game so I'd say that's a good place to start. My personal lean is toward China as being the best in the game because my play-style matches well with them, and their UA/UB/UU are all good to very good. Though that isn't to say Babylon and Poland aren't equally good in the right hands.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:18
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Cool, thanks.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:22
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Poland is the most adaptable. Free policies will help you no matter what playstyle you're going for. Babylon and Korea are great for science, which is also useful in all playstyles, but is somewhat less suited towards conquering (in the short term, anyway -- long term, being a generation ahead of your enemy makes wars trivial).
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Oct 8, 2014 23:25
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SHAKA!!!  I leave three tiles of empty desert between the northern and southern halves of my empire, and you jam a city in there, breaking all but one of my city connections. You're not supposed to be taking a leaf from Hiawatha's book.
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Oct 9, 2014 01:20
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Some VoDs for your critique/commentary/advice! Here's an attempt at playing some early game on Immortal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy7bc1L8F0c My goals were to get Stonehenge and go for a religion-based opener. I ended up getting beat to Stonehenge by a few turns. Probably made several poor decisions, but I'm not sure what they were. Initial tech researches were to unlock my resources near me, but I didn't have the turns to make a worker or a fishing boat before I felt like I had to start Stonehenge to even have a chance at it. Skipped monument because I figured I'd get it for free with Tradition. Not sure double scout was the right call though. Feel free to tear it apart -- all the decisions I made at the time seemed reasonable but clearly they were wrong. What should have I done to grab Stonehenge here? When should I be trying to build my first city and settler? I was frustrated enough that I quit and tried again, reasoning maybe I have to play the map more and given that start, I shouldn't have even tried for Stonehenge. Attempt 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmjNfXZZ30A Well, starting Marble just screams early wonder to me, so I decide to go for it. Unfortunately, once again, I miss out on it. This time it isn't even close. Attempt 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VxcPvGZ_JU This felt the best. I got Stonehenge by just going Monument->Worker and chopping like a madman. Not sure it was the right call, however. Ended up eventually just prioritizing Growth once I had more cities so I didn't have to Production bug every time each city grew (laziness? not sure it's worth the micro, especially past early game as you get more and more cities). However, Washington forward settled the heck out of me and if he hadn't decided to be friends, I'm pretty sure I'd be dead already (if he had been aggressive, not sure what I should have done or how I should have known apart from seeing units marching out of fog). Feels like I got lucky more than I did anything right. Not sure where to grab a 4th city either. Paused here because it should be enough for commentary, and also because I'm not sure where else to go. Almost feels like I should backstab my buddy Washington and take his capital as my 4th, razing everything between. Not sure what to do to build up to the capability to do that, however. I also feel really blind as to the map because I haven't built a scout, but didn't want to miss out on Stonehenge again... .. Looking for general, broad strategic advice (e.g., never skip Monuments, fool) as well as specific instances of "at this spot, you did this wrong. Should have done X instead because Y."
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Oct 9, 2014 01:32
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So I'm playing Portugal for the first time. Naus came at the right time to give me the cash I needed and having a Feitoria in EVERY city- state is pretty good. The extra cash from trade routes is also really nice . I've got some routes where my capital is making 30+ GPT and the target is getting 6 or so.
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Oct 9, 2014 01:49
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I was wondering why one of my cities wasn't able to create a stoneworks for the longest time until I opened up the Civilopedia. Apparently Stoneworks have the kicker "city cannot be placed on plains"  . No idea why that's such a big deal for your stoneworks. Oh well I guess I'll just have to satisfy myself with my city having only having 3 salts and not having a fully boosted quarry.In other news, as Poland I managed to find and settle a city location with 3 sheep, 2 cows and a horse.  Pvt.Scott posted:So I'm playing Portugal for the first time. Naus came at the right time to give me the cash I needed and having a Feitoria in EVERY city- state is pretty good. The extra cash from trade routes is also really nice . I've got some routes where my capital is making 30+ GPT and the target is getting 6 or so. Yeah, Portugal is insanely rich. Enjoy having ALL of the loving money from Naus and trade routes, and never having to worry about luxury resources once you can steal them from city states regardless of everything else. I didn't play Portugal for the longest time and then kicked myself when I finally got a game with them. International sea trade routes with them are insane, and their international land routes might as well be everyone else's sea routes. Alkydere fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 01:51
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Things are not looking rosy for Portugal. I'm wedged on an isthmus between Order Iroqouis and Autocracy Indonesia and my only Freedom buddy is the Celts on the other side of the planet. Askia just ate Monty and William just denounced me for not being on team Order. I might have also shot down William's proposal for Order as the world ideology. Sure am glad I just got flight and am sitting on mountains of oil. No coal or aluminum in my territory, but that's nothing a few "liberations" can't help. E: got ground down by endless waves of Iroqouis. Can't win em all. Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 02:41
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I dunno, I was not super impressed by Portugal. The extra trade route money is nice but it's a pretty tiny bonus in most cases. Feitoria and naus are nice but they're too little, too late. They're a fun screwing around civ for lower difficulties but I prefer the Ottomans for getting rich goofing off with naval stuff.
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Oct 9, 2014 03:45
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The Maya are also regarded as a top-tier civ due to their early science boost, and their UA might be good for teaching you about great people (get a scientist first).
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Oct 9, 2014 04:09
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Is there an IRC for Civ stuff?
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Oct 9, 2014 04:41
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Man that Immortal Portugal game was rough. I keep forgetting I installed that "dlc" pack of mods and tweaks that someone posted pages back. The free promotions on AI units actually make warfare a challenge.
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Oct 9, 2014 05:25
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When a bunch of civilizations declare war on you at once how many turns must pass before they're willing to negotiate peace? It's been a long while since they did it (20+ turns), and I've managed to hold them off and become the No. 1 military power, but none of them will budge. I need peace so these dudes will stop plundering my trade ships.
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Oct 9, 2014 08:48
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Tip #1 for new players: Never base a strategy on getting a specific Wonder. It might work reliably at low difficulties but it'll fall apart later on. Assume you'll get beaten to every Wonder when you're planning your strategy, only build early Wonders using Great Engineers, and hard-build as few Wonders as possible.
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Oct 9, 2014 10:12
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Gort posted:Tip #1 for new players: Never base a strategy on getting a specific Wonder. It might work reliably at low difficulties but it'll fall apart later on. This changes when you catch up to the AI in the mid-late game and you can start to leverage your larger city sizes and more tile improvements to outproduce them. But while the AI still has a tech advantage, you're much better off just throwing your production into units and conquering a few capitals for their wonders.
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Oct 9, 2014 12:24
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Alkydere posted:I think my copy of the game has a cursed version of Poland. I keep restarting to see nothing but salt around my capital and not getting any pasture-able resources. I mean salt's amazing to have, but I'd really, really like to get some mileage out of my UB. I know you ended up finding a god spot after all, but for anyone else reading I suggest going with the Great Plains map if you want to ensure you get a ton of pastures with Poland. Nothing but horses and cows for miles and miles.
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Oct 9, 2014 14:14
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