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The only real major difference between how FFG does the 40k and Star Wars RPGs vs how other companies did similar games is that instead of a bunch of splat books, they have a small number of supplements and sell multiple versions of the core book. On the one hand this means if you only want to play Space Marines you just need to buy the one book and not shell out for a separate corebook. On the other hand it means if you do want to play Space Marines AND Inquisitors, you're spending extra money to repurchase material you already have with the two corebooks. I'm honestly not sure whether either model is really superior.
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Oct 8, 2014 17:07
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Comrade Gorbash posted:The only real major difference between how FFG does the 40k and Star Wars RPGs vs how other companies did similar games is that instead of a bunch of splat books, they have a small number of supplements and sell multiple versions of the core book. I think it makes sense with the 40K RPGs, where being a space marine is vastly different than being some scrub who works for an inquisitor, and even a two game split would make sense to me in Star Wars because Old Republic Jedi adventures are quite different than Rebellion Era adventures, and it's difficult to balance Force users against non-Force users. But I don't see a reason to split up rebels and scoundrels, and from what I understand, there are balance problems around force users in the two games that are out. So it just seems rather pointless to me beyond being a different way to organize the line.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:20
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WordMercenary posted:I'm supposed to be running helping run some games for GameCity this month. What are some good, easy to understand one shot RPGs? (I'm assuming an audience with little to no experience) One Last Job is designed around one shots. I also find most people can pick up Leverage pretty quickly.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:23
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unseenlibrarian posted:Honestly I think how they split it was pretty true to how people tend to -play- Star Wars. You've got your Traveller with Wookies game, your brave heroes of the alliance game, and your "Holy poo poo, look at all the Jedi" game. So when is the Imperial book gonna come out? You know for those times when you want to kill moisture farmers and beat up Ewoks?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:25
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DocBubonic posted:So when is the Imperial book gonna come out? You know for those times when you want to kill moisture farmers and beat up Ewoks? You can already play RIFTS as the Coalition though.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:30
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PeterWeller posted:I think it makes sense with the 40K RPGs, where being a space marine is vastly different than being some scrub who works for an inquisitor, and even a two game split would make sense to me in Star Wars because Old Republic Jedi adventures are quite different than Rebellion Era adventures, and it's difficult to balance Force users against non-Force users. But I don't see a reason to split up rebels and scoundrels, and from what I understand, there are balance problems around force users in the two games that are out. So it just seems rather pointless to me beyond being a different way to organize the line. For what its worth, the Age of Rebellion stuff has a lot of different assumptions than Edge of the Empire, and the classes have more of a team/support focus. Even though they're rebels its still treated as a structured military organization and both the DM and Fluff chapters reinforce this with new material stressing those elements. Its geared towards a different sub genre, really, despite the same underlying rules system. I appreciate having both EotE and AoR, but I'm pretty sure I won't bother with Force and Destiny because Jedi are basically boring as poo poo (unless we're talking KOTOR 2) Suck it, space wizards
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Oct 8, 2014 20:46
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I'll never understand people who desperately ache for a Star Wars with no jedi in it. It's like wanting to play Shadowrun but hating the orks and mages. Dudes, there's settings and systems right there for you, just take the obligatory big animal race and call it a wookie.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:09
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ProfessorCirno posted:I'll never understand people who desperately ache for a Star Wars with no jedi in it. It's like wanting to play Shadowrun but hating the orks and mages. Dudes, there's settings and systems right there for you, just take the obligatory big animal race and call it a wookie. Pulp SF, familiarity, kickass visuals and an EU to pluck stuff. One of the best supplements I ever had for my Star Wars game was the EU maps book, where players could point at a star system and I could find out everything about it and accurately plot how long it would take to get there.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:24
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ProfessorCirno posted:I'll never understand people who desperately ache for a Star Wars with no jedi in it. It's like wanting to play Shadowrun but hating the orks and mages. Dudes, there's settings and systems right there for you, just take the obligatory big animal race and call it a wookie. I like the FFG system and also enjoyed WHFRP using basically the same dice  Also I've only ever used tech characters in Shadowrun. Maybe I'm the problem with games?
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Oct 8, 2014 21:32
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I guess I don't get the guy who watches Star Wars and groans and mutters every time Luke shows up. Like, guys, he's kind of a major character.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:50
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ProfessorCirno posted:I'll never understand people who desperately ache for a Star Wars with no jedi in it. It's like wanting to play Shadowrun but hating the orks and mages. Dudes, there's settings and systems right there for you, just take the obligatory big animal race and call it a wookie. Vader did nothing wrong. gently caress the telekinetic mind-police. Buy my deathsticks.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:58
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ProfessorCirno posted:I guess I don't get the guy who watches Star Wars and groans and mutters every time Luke shows up. Like, guys, he's kind of a major character. I don't really think anybody's doing that, though. Most of the anti-Jedi sentiment I've seen (insofar as TTRPGs, at least) falls into either "this game is set during the original trilogy era and there aren't any Jedi around"* or "practically every book, comic, video game, and TV show is all about Jedi, a change of pace would be nice." I've literally never seen someone say "Star Wars would be better without any Jedi in it," but "I'd prefer this game focused on things other than Jedi" is a valid statement. It's not one I particularly share, mind you, but it's one I can understand. * Admittedly this attitude was more common back in the early WEG days, before the EU took off and had roughly 500 Jedi survive the Purge; when you take Yoda at his word that "when gone I am, the last of the Jedi you will be" it makes a bit more sense to not have three or four Jedi running around your game.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:59
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Jedi are what distinguish Star Wars, yeah. Without the Well, that and wookies. 
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Oct 8, 2014 22:00
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GimpInBlack posted:I've literally never seen someone say "Star Wars would be better without any Jedi in it," It's kind of a really common statement whenever EotE comes up. It shows up nonstop in the thread.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:06
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ProfessorCirno posted:It's kind of a really common statement whenever EotE comes up. It shows up nonstop in the thread. Huh. Yeah, that's pretty dumb then.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:09
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ProfessorCirno posted:I'll never understand people who desperately ache for a D&D with no godwizards in it. It's like wanting to play WoD but hating the vampires and werewolves. Dudes, there's settings and systems right there for you, just take the obligatory dumb martial class and call it a fighter.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:15
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That is not what my friend Cirno said.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:24
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Grogs.txt again reminded me how much I miss cheesy eighties fantasy art. I should write up some kind of lovely fantasy heartbreaker just so I could kickstart it and get, I dunno, Clyde Caldwell or someone to illustrate it. My teenage years, right here: 
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Oct 8, 2014 22:30
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:That is what my friend Cirno said. Jedi are pretty stupid though, for real. They have the D&D alignment problem except worse, and it works out okay sometimes when someone else is telling the story but sometimes you want a fun, familiar space opera setting without "is this an Objectively Good Action or not" coming up. There's a reason that when authors like Avellone get a hold of the universe they start seriously rewriting poo poo with the Jedi.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:30
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Yep. The problem with Jedi in RPGs is the same as wizards in D&D (worse, really, because at least D&D wizards aren't also flashing whirling close combat ninjas). Jedi tend to overwhelm all other members of an adventuring party because in the canonical universe they have all kinds of encounter- and scenario-breaking powers. So either you play a party of Jedi, a Jedi whose powers are nerfed into something like Counselor Troi's, or a party with no Jedi if you don't just want to sit around and watch the Jedi character solve all the problems with his Jedi spell list. Of course, Star Wars without Jedi misses the point of most of the movies, and you end up with Traveller-but-with-Hutts-and-Wookies.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:30
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GimpInBlack posted:I've literally never seen someone say "Star Wars would be better without any Jedi in it," Karen Traviss
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Oct 8, 2014 22:31
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Error 404 posted:Karen Traviss
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Oct 8, 2014 22:32
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FMguru posted:Of course, Star Wars without Jedi misses the point of most of the movies, and you end up with Traveller-but-with-Hutts-and-Wookies. But the FFG core rulebooks are way, way better edited.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:36
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Siivola posted:Grogs.txt again reminded me how much I miss cheesy eighties fantasy art. I should write up some kind of lovely fantasy heartbreaker just so I could kickstart it and get, I dunno, Clyde Caldwell or someone to illustrate it. Wow, that image is from the AD&D Beginner Set, right? That was my entry into D&D and I *still* remember that picture (that was the pre-gen dwarf fighter).
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Oct 8, 2014 22:37
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RPZip posted:There's a reason that when authors like Avellone get a hold of the universe they start seriously rewriting poo poo with the Jedi.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:42
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Spincut posted:Wow, that image is from the AD&D Beginner Set, right? That was my entry into D&D and I *still* remember that picture (that was the pre-gen dwarf fighter).
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Oct 8, 2014 22:43
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Siivola posted:Was the reason "look how much I don't like Star Wars"? It can be both! quote:No part of KotOR2 was fun, and it was barely familiar. Woah now, though. KotOR2 was pretty great, albeit dragged down by not being finished and the huge number of bugs. You didn't like it at all?
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Oct 8, 2014 22:44
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18 Character Limit posted:FFG...rulebooks...better edited. 
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Oct 8, 2014 22:45
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It is not a coincidence that the best Star Wars computer games are the X-Wing/Tie Fighter games--the ones that have the least to do with the actual characters and setting
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Oct 8, 2014 22:46
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Jedi are fine as elements of the story and setting, but I don't really feel like having them as playable characters? Partially due to the aforementioned "I'm going to ignore the EU stuff about hundreds of Jedi running around". Jedi are cool, in moderation. When theres an entire party of them, or the story is only about them, or its Clone Wars/Prequel Syndrome it basically saps tension out of the room. Can it be interesting? Yeah, it can. I love the KOTOR games and just about everyone ends up a Jedi. KOTOR 2 is also probably one of the best Star Wars EU stories and its partially because it deconstructs and undermines the ridiculous simple morality of Jedi and Sith. Is that what I feel like playing or running? Not really. Theres more than just Jedi that define Star Wars and its nice to give people who aren't weird crazy wizard dudes the spotlight. Let's focus on Rogue Squadron guys, or do not-Firefly. Its a fun universe, and sometimes you want a story that isn't all about the mystical force and destiny and prophecies. Do they exist in the universe? Yeah. Might it be involved in the story? Absolutely But do I want it to be the focus? Not really, and its a matter of taste. ProfessorCirno posted:It's kind of a really common statement whenever EotE comes up. It shows up nonstop in the thread. I have literally never seen this said in the Star Wars RPG thread. What have I seen? Debates over the power level of the Jedi and the vast gulf between how they are portrayed in the Original Trilogy vs. All other media.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:47
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Siivola posted:No, it's the cover to R.A. Salvatore's novel Streams of Silver. 'Course, it might be they recycled the illustration for the set. It must be recycled then, because I have definitely seen that art before and haven't read Streams of Silver. Found the set, though, it was called "Intro to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons," was released in 1995 and was based off of AD&D 2e. Also came with a CD!
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Oct 8, 2014 22:48
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RPZip posted:Woah now, though. KotOR2 was pretty great, albeit dragged down by not being finished and the huge number of bugs. You didn't like it at all? But I what I actually meant was, the game's tone is really dark a lot of the time, as opposed to the fairly light-hearted fun romp through space of KotOR1.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:49
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FMguru posted:Yep. The problem with Jedi in RPGs is the same as wizards in D&D (worse, really, because at least D&D wizards aren't also flashing whirling close combat ninjas). Jedi tend to overwhelm all other members of an adventuring party because in the canonical universe they have all kinds of encounter- and scenario-breaking powers. So either you play a party of Jedi, a Jedi whose powers are nerfed into something like Counselor Troi's, or a party with no Jedi if you don't just want to sit around and watch the Jedi character solve all the problems with his Jedi spell list. "TTG writers are incapable of leaving the shadow of D&D" is not an inherent issue with Star Wars. Luke traveled with Han just fine without either overshadowing the other. RPZip posted:Jedi are pretty stupid though, for real. They have the D&D alignment problem except worse, and it works out okay sometimes when someone else is telling the story but sometimes you want a fun, familiar space opera setting without "is this an Objectively Good Action or not" coming up. There's a reason that when authors like Avellone get a hold of the universe they start seriously rewriting poo poo with the Jedi. Again, TTG writers being unable to leave the shadow of D&D is not an inherent problem with Star Wars. The original trilogy didn't have a Bioware morality meter and worked fine.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:49
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RPZip posted:It can be both! I've been playing the restored edition, and it has been a good experience to me, the lovable Plutonis.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:50
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Siivola posted:and the way nobody exposits what the hell the Exile has actually been up to was really confusing. It actually does a pretty good job of letting you determine both what your motivations were and what you did through your choices. The Restoration Patch expands on a lot of this content, but it was there in the original. A lot of stuff isn't info-dumped on you because you're the one making the choices.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:53
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I guess? I dunno, my experience was that the details came in disjointed bits and pieces. It might just be my poor people memory bleeding through, but it made me deeply uncomfortable when Bao-Dur's introduced and he goes "General! Long time no see! What fun adventures we had back in the war, eh?" and all I can say is "...Uh, sure did, whats-your-face." I honestly thought the Exile had amnesia for a long-rear end while, until something in the dialogue options tipped me off that she didn't and people were after her because of ~something~ she really did and remembered quite well. I'm glad somebody eventually spelled out just what happened, so I didn't have to find it out by letting Atton crash the Ebon Hawk into it.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:02
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RPZip pretending to be Cirno posted:I'll never understand people who desperately ache for a D&D with no godwizards in it. It's like wanting to play WoD but hating the vampires and werewolves. Dudes, there's settings and systems right there for you, just take the obligatory dumb martial class and call it a fighter. This joke reminds me that I want to use Vampire to run a game of pre-Republic Sith feudal intrigue (houses with Disciplines, Humanity to let you know when your eyes go yellow and such), but that I've changed the history enough that I may as well spin it off into something unique.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:06
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I'm going to shut up about Star Wars, but theres no one here saying what Cirno is railing against. Some people just would like to have the spotlight on non-Jedis sometimes. Some people think they're rare and some people think they're breeding like rabbits. Its your game, do what you want. Its not badwrongfun to play a Star Wars game without Jedi.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:06
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That was a feature, not a bug!  More games should dump you into the middle of a story and let you as the player decide/discover how your character got there through dialogue or other choices.I think my favorite one of those choices is when you're at the Telos Academy for the first time, and if you're a dude you're asked about what you think of Atris and why she's so interested in you. I loved how you could sort of set the tone of your later interactions with a wide range from "haha, ew, gross!" to "More evidence of Jedi hypocrisy about controlling their emotions" to "Maybe if i'd known back then, things could have been different." It's so minor, but you're sort of making official within the game that this is who your PC is and how they see the world.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:11
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ProfessorCirno posted:Again, TTG writers being unable to leave the shadow of D&D is not an inherent problem with Star Wars. The original trilogy didn't have a Bioware morality meter and worked fine. Oh God, this a thousand times. If you're trying to make Jedi morality more stringent or complex than "Marshall Matt Dillon with a laser sword," you've gone terribly wrong.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:11
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