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Terrible writing confessions time? In 6th grade I hand wrote a multi-page story about two 12 year old girls who commited suicide in messy ways because their parents wouldn't let them be best friends anymore. This was later followed by a 200 page novel (written in 4-page only documents on an Apple ][e child's publishing processor) about a girl who had been murdered by her rival for a boy's affections and was haunting her best friend to forward the message, in a terrible rip off of a Christopher Pike novel. You're all welcome.
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Oct 10, 2014 14:01
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Sithsaber posted:That was the joke. Good news, apparently my computer might be fixed without wiping the data. I'll know tomorrow. I'll leave because of the hostility. Have you ever considered that everybody in your life is hostile towards not because they're a bunch of great big meanies who don't get it, but because you're kind of an rear end in a top hat? That you demand criticism but have no idea how to take it? It's funny looking back through your rap sheet, because every single time the same thing happens:  "Hi I'm Sithsaber and this is my thing." "Okay Sithsaber, this looks ... interesting. Have you tried doing xyz?" "gently caress YOU rear end in a top hat GO DIE IN A FIRE YOU JUST DON'T GET MY GENIUS." "What the hell dude, calm down." "EVERYBODY IS AGAINST ME IT'S ONE BIG CONSPIRACY I'M TAKING MY BALL AND GOING HOME."and then yes, all the goons start pissing into the well. People try to be nice to you and you just spit it back in their faces, and eventually they give up and just start mocking you. I get the distinct feeling you're going to try claim at some later point that you were 'just trolling lol' (see your "it was a joke guys jeez louise" above; you are so 18 it hurts) so let me tell you ahead of time: everybody sees through it. One day you're going to look back on this and laugh, or maybe groan. Until then, please do flounce off. You won't be missed.
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Oct 10, 2014 14:14
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now i want to buy a long black coat
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Oct 10, 2014 14:15
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systran posted:This is 100% essential for me. I cannot write at home. It also creates this feeling of "going to work" in that you have to become presentable, gather your things, travel there, and if you end up opening google docs or whatever and can't think of a single thing to write, you won't just say "hmm gently caress it" and play League of Legends, you'll think, "I came all this way..." and you generally end up sitting there and staying focused on the writing. Jumping in to stress this for anybody still doubting the efficacy of getting up from their game-playing/gently caress-around station and going somewhere else to do some serious work. Whether it's a cafe, library, park, or whatever, I've found that getting out of my apartment to write over the last month has exponentially increasing my productivity. Also, turn off your wifi. I've found this to be true: "You can't call yourself a writer if your writing machine gets internet." (or something like that) - some author (Jonathan Franzen I think)
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Oct 10, 2014 14:23
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Jagermonster posted:Also, turn off your wifi. I've found this to be true: "You can't call yourself a writer if your writing machine gets internet." (or something like that) - some author (Jonathan Franzen I think)
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Oct 10, 2014 14:27
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nvrmnd
Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 14:42
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Stop caring so much what other people think about you. That way you won't run yourself into getting all flustered like you do.
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Oct 10, 2014 15:05
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:PYF Terrible Writer confession. Around the time Ocarina of Time came out, I contributed several chapters to an online chain fanfic set in the Zelda universe. I found them like a decade later and it was horrifying but also hilarious what 11-year-old me thought writing was. 
Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 15:44
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Sithsaber posted:That's a long paragraph for a kick that stemmed from a protracted DYEL joke. I still appreciate the criticism, even if I don't wholly agree with it at the time. (Different tastes, first works of fiction always partially being about one's self, experimental language and structures falling into common cliches etc) My one request is that people don't take things so seriously. You should know that I don't value people only because of their pecks. You should know that was a joke meant to diffuse the situation. Just to be clear, nobody was hostile to you when you first darkened our doorstep. People gave you some good criticism. Yes, it was harsh (because your story was irredeemable poo poo) but a harsh critique is not a reflection of you as a person. There are stories that I've absolutely hated by people that I have a ton of respect for in this forum, and that doesn't diminish them as a person or as a writer in my eyes. People turned hostile because literally (literally) everything you posted that wasn't your story was defensive, reactionary, whiny, and rude. People took time out of their busy days to give you feedback and genuine advice on a piece that an 8th grade ESL student would wipe their rear end with, (and as an aside, usually when someone dumps a story in here that hasn't even been proofread, nobody even gives it the time of day) and you heeded absolutely none of it. You actively spurned it. I'm also fairly certain you are just 100% full of poo poo, since you came in here saying you lost a pen drive with all your work on it and now apparently it's an issue with your computer wiping the data. I'm guessing you actually haven't written anything or improved whatsoever since you last showed up and dropped trou in this thread, and I'm guessing you will now use this as an opportunity to run off again. Which is fine. It's not a matter of "not taking things so seriously." People around here can be very lighthearted. CC as a whole has a very laid-back atmosphere. But a lot of people here are serious about writing because it's something we are passionate about. We are also serious about providing feedback and helping people grow. You aren't interested in any of that, and that's ok. Just realize that this might not be the place for you, then. TVTropes has a forum that would probably be right up your alley.
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Oct 10, 2014 16:20
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Maybe there should be a separate thread for stupid slapfights that no one gives a poo poo about
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Oct 10, 2014 16:23
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nevermind
Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 16:24
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Sithsaber posted:The pen drive is hosed. The computer apparently is not. Haha you're whole gripe was "my pen drive is gone, I lost my work, should I start over or scrap it?" but apparently you also had everything saved on your computer so in actuality none of it was lost at all this entire time? You're saying some drat good poo poo GP but I think it's all in vain to be honest so we might as well just not bother.
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Oct 10, 2014 16:27
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Cpt. Mahatma Gandhi posted:Haha you're whole gripe was "my pen drive is gone, I lost my work, should I start over or scrap it?" but apparently you also had everything saved on your computer so in actuality none of it was lost at all this entire time? Some old versions of things are saved to the old computer. (Technically a laptop you supersleuths) The newer stuff was done exclusively on the pen drive at multiple locations. As for me saying that people should relax, in context you'd know that I was talking to the people who didn't like my lifting jokes because of something something masculinity. Why am I even explaining this? I know this post has been reported five times by now. If I stillhave my stuff iI'll post here and if I still have the outlines on the computer I'll scrap the project and use it for something else. Sorry I came in here and banged my head on the keyboard yesterday rather than bang my fists against...nevermind. Sithsaber fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 16:39
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Let's talk about plotting and structure!  I'm developing an outline currently, and man, it is always the ending which gets me. I know the Three Act structure is the most common way to structure stories, so in terms of that, is the climax at the turning point between two and three, or what? I know Two is the rising action, where things snowball and get worse and worse, but what is the break into three? Is it a new twist that leads to a resolving climax in three? Let's discuss, perhaps even advise. Anything but a prolonged shitfit 
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Oct 10, 2014 16:45
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I'm developing an outline currently, and man, it is always the ending which gets me. I know the Three Act structure is the most common way to structure stories, so in terms of that, is the climax at the turning point between two and three, or what? I know Two is the rising action, where things snowball and get worse and worse, but what is the break into three? Is it a new twist that leads to a resolving climax in three? I think the third act is the finale, so that's your climax. How you get there is up to you. I assume there is a conflict in your story. Resolve it. If you raise the stakes throughout your second act this should be doable without a twist. Eventually things just come to a head. Don't overthink it. But this is stupidly vague and formulaic stuff so it's probably better if you tell us what you're working on and why the ending is giving you troubles.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:02
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Let's talk about plotting and structure! I feel like having it at the turning point of act 2 and 3 is too soon, and would rather put it as close to the end as possible. For example, I just finished reading American Gods by Neil Gaiman, and the climax happens around page 480 of 520 and even extends a little into the epilogue. Everything that happens after the climax, when you wrap up loose ends and whatnot, should be rather short, because no one wants to read tons of pages of characters finding their place in the world or whatever. Hell, Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds practically ends right after the climax; there's like a page and a half where the characters are like "Whoa, that was crazy, welp time to leave." and the book ends. Your mileage may vary in terms of how long you want the conclusion of the story to be, but I feel like ideally you want that to be fairly short and for the climax to occur right beforehand.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:03
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Let's talk about plotting and structure! Before I go into this, I will say that it's really easy to get bogged down in structure to the point that it gets in the way of telling your story. The issue is that there are dozens of different charts and graphs and outlines for the 3-act structure, and almost none of them agree on the "right" way to do it. For instance, Wellman has it structured like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Plot_Line_Graph_Ver.2.png So there, AIII begins directly after the descending action and culminates in the climax. However, this version is also really common: http://cliffordgarstang.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/ThreeActStructureFlat.jpg Here, you have a primary climax in AII and a secondary climax in AIII. This one has AIII begin with the descending action / denouement leading into the final resolution. As you can see, the issue is that these are two contradictory definitions. There are even more of them out there, and endless arguments about which one is "correct." Personally, I think the elements are more important than the structure, in that if you incorporate things like rising action, conflict, denouement, and resolution, the structure is going to arise organically. I don't think there are a whole lot of successful authors out there (if any) that actually sit down and stress out about fitting their story into one of these structures. They are kind of interesting as a tool to analyze literature and break it down into base components for the purpose of theory, but, imo, they don't really have a place as an actual, practical writing tool in any meaningful sense.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:13
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Entenzahn posted:But this is stupidly vague and formulaic stuff so it's probably better if you tell us what you're working on and why the ending is giving you troubles. Well, my ending is pretty vague right now as it stands, I just know roughly that these two main guys have a confrontaton and then one shoots the other. That is literally all I have regarding "act three" at the moment. I'm just not great at getting to endings, which is why I asked the question, really. I can come up with what I think is an interesting bit, like a NaNo I wrote years ago where the protagonist was bodyguarding someone only to have to kill him in the end to solve the conflict, but it always feels really thin to me when I go into it, because I just have no idea how it should work. Maybe it's middles I have trouble with?
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Oct 10, 2014 17:29
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Musical theatre's hosed me up, man; I intellectually understand the three act structure and use it for my own novels, but the two act structure comes more naturally to me.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:46
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Well, my ending is pretty vague right now as it stands, I just know roughly that these two main guys have a confrontaton and then one shoots the other. That is literally all I have regarding "act three" at the moment. I'm just not great at getting to endings, which is why I asked the question, really. I can come up with what I think is an interesting bit, like a NaNo I wrote years ago where the protagonist was bodyguarding someone only to have to kill him in the end to solve the conflict, but it always feels really thin to me when I go into it, because I just have no idea how it should work. Honestly, I'd just sit down with some good books and take a look at how they handle the ending. Things to watch for, in my experience: 1) Is your ending showing the result of the story's main conflict? The conflict is what keeps people reading, and the ending / resolution is the payoff. Some stories state it outright, others merely suggest it. If you are going to be subtle, make sure there is enough information that the reader can reasonably infer what is likely to happen after that last sentence. 2) Is your ending drawing from the beginning / middle of the story and reaching an organic conclusion? Unless you pulling an O. Henry, you probably want one or two threads that form a throughline in your story. Your reader wants to see a logical resolution for all of the conflict and complication that the characters have gone through. 3) Is your ending stemming from the actions and challenges of your characters? This kind of ties into the previous question, but at a deeper level. So imagine your story is about a guy that desperately needs money for some reason. There are a ton of ways that can go. Does he get in debt to the wrong people? Borrow money that he might not be able to pay back? Rob a bank? Your climax and your resolution need to develop from the actions that your characters take. This is why nobody likes deus ex machina endings; imagine that in this hypothetical scenario, the character buys a winning lotto ticket on the last page. You've just taken the wind out of the story's sails. The stakes are suddenly gone and the problem is solved through pure luck. This is, technically, a resolution, but it's an awful one because the character's agency is irrelevant.
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Oct 10, 2014 17:46
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Let's talk about plotting and structure! I hate the formulaic nature of some of this stuff so take this as vaguely as possible, but when you're at the lowest point you need to inject some new information that carries you through the last fifth of the story. Ideally, you'd have some kind of B-story running throughout that comes to a head and converges with the A-story; it might be the love story, it might be a revelation, it might be a character from earlier taking on greater relevance, maybe some investigation has turned up something new, etc. You then go through a series of minibosses until you get the the final boss and deal with them. If possible, the actual ending should evoke the opposite of the beginning. The Shrek movies, especially 1 and 2, are extremely transparent: Shrek: At the lowest point the group is seperated and you have sad music, slow camera pans and everyone is bummed out; Donkey reignites Shrek's passion and they head out to stop the wedding with the help of the dragon; wedding climax. Began with Shrek alone in the swamp, ends with Shrek surrounded by people in the swamp. Shrek 2: At the lowest point the group is arrested and you have sad music, slow camera pans and everyone is bummed out; Shrek's friends rescue them and have the muffin man build a giant gingerbread man to storm the castle; the awesome "I Need A Hero" sequence and the confrontation with Godmother is the climax. Began with shakey relationships (parents, in-laws, friends, lovers), ends with strenghtened relationships. Granted, these are films, but you're outlining and the same kinda applies. But also treat structures somewhat tenuously.
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Oct 10, 2014 19:02
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Let's talk about plotting and structure! http://www.openculture.com/2014/02/kurt-vonnegut-masters-thesis-rejected-by-u-chicago.html
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Oct 10, 2014 23:27
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So the most common advice seems to be "Just keep writing until you finish the first draft". But what if it turns out to be really short? Not short story length or anything, but maybe it ends up being only 40k words or something. Because I'm sweating through my first draft and basically just winging it, and while I have a couple of characters and the basic idea of the main conflict, I'm still just making it up as I go along. Do I just keep doing that until I hit 75k or however long I'm trying to make this novel? How do I keep it from becoming meandering incoherent crap? Or is the first draft SUPPOSED to be meandering incoherent crap, and through the process of writing it, you get to know the characters better, and develop new ideas for the plot and setting and so on, and then can go back and write the second draft with these new ideas in mind? Then the novel gets longer (because you've got more stuff to write about) and/or becomes clearer and more focused?
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Oct 11, 2014 09:56
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I spent a very long time outlining and structuring the novel I'm working on at the moment, before I even vomited up the first line. What I discovered at the end of the first draft, to my brief dismay, is that all that work was rather wasted. The characters have an internal logic of their own, and by forcing them to fit the technically correct and well-researched outline, I've crippled the story through inflexibility. The biggest leap for me from first to second draft has been to throw the outline out of the window and start over with all that I have learned about the cast of the novel. gently caress structure, write characters. This is what seems to have worked for me, anyway. If you're having trouble outlining, maybe don't. Maybe only come back to trying to outline once you have the first draft. It might not be right for you, but it's a real option.
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Oct 11, 2014 10:04
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I think an outline should be very barebones ie start, main points, and end (though maybe that will be open-ended). Character motivation should be the meat, as in whatever the character would do to get from A to B (could encompass a lot) is where the story comes from.
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Oct 11, 2014 12:57
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thehomemaster posted:I think an outline should be very barebones ie start, main points, and end (though maybe that will be open-ended). My initial outline was 2 pages long, just sentence after sentence of "and then X goes to Y. Y lies to X about Z because she's afraid of chemtrails" Or whatever. And then, each one of those lines becomes a chapter, or a scene. It helped me to map it all out in advance, to avoid going down a 30-page alley with no way out. Prepare your nano NOW. Use the snowflake method of plotting. Go get the free download of Scrivener (30 day free trial, total of 30 days, not 30 sequential days so you can start using it now, just bear in mind you'll need to write some chapters in Google Docs or Word during the Nano), use note cards to identify each scene, try to visualize how long each scene should be, in relationship to the other scenes, and that'll give you a sense of your word count goal for each scene. Larry Brooks made a spreadsheet that helps you get a general idea of where your beats should fall. It's interesting to look into. http://jamigold.com/for-writers/worksheets-for-writers/#Story Engineering  Of course, bear in mind - these are a methodical approach to what should be a wildly creative process. But doing that eliminates the stress, at least during Nano, of worrying about word count, in either direction. "Am I writing too little? Too much?" If you've set up your goal of 1700-2000 words per day, (and you should) you'll want to be sure your initial draft aligns with that number. One of the best apps I used during nano was WRITEORDIE. You set a word count, and a time frame, and off you go. The screen turns red if you type too slowly for your goal. And here's the thing. Muffin is right, to an extent. Your first MS will be turds smeared across old wallpaper. However, before you hose it off, get in there and really pick the poo poo apart. You'll find glorious peanuts of genius that you forgot about. You'll find corn and even a dime or two that will cause you to revel in your brilliance. Hopefully. And when it's over, don't delete your file. Use it. You're got an opportunity to crit the gently caress out of bad writing. Tear it apart and try to fix it. I've done Nano two years in a row, and I won both years. The first year, I was in love with my book because I wrote it. After ten months of revising and learning where I'd hosed up, I was ready to do it all over again. My second Nano wasn't a steaming pile of poo poo. At the core of it was a good story with interesting characters and conflict and a climax and a gently caress TON of "what happens next" moments. It's a good story. Muffin was wrong*. At least about my second Nano. it's not ready to go to the press, yet, but it will. * in saying your Nano book will always be poo poo. At least, that one time. magnificent7 fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 11, 2014 15:07
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magnificent7 posted:Muffin was wrong*.  There are two main types of writer: a gardener and an architect. I'm more of a gardener: I sorta just let the flow of things take me and then I go and trim it all/edit it up later. Mag's pretty clearly an architect: he plans things out very logically before he begins. The method that works for you sorta depends on how your brain works. The best way to find out where you stand is to try both and see which gets you a better piece. A lot of people sit somewhere in the middle, but it's nice to be aware of both approaches.
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Oct 11, 2014 16:12
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i need a metaphor. i'm like the guy who owns a lot, but it's in a bad part of town so I never go check on it and it's overgrown and filled with old tires and broken bottles and smells of piss.
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Oct 11, 2014 16:17
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:
I abhor following a formula, (Save The Cat! for example). However, for a person with lots of ideas, a little structure helps me map my story. I'm not saying my finished story is identical to that original blueprint. Right now, I'd say my latest novel is 50% of the original idea. The original main character is a minor player. The original idea was, "crazy old lady takes photos of murderers and blackmails them". Story now is "twenty-something woman finds proof that her grandfather might be a killer, while her grandfather tries to bury his past by killing the people who knew about it, (including a crazy old lady who photographed him)". My first Nano was definitely more loose. "Aliens the size of fleas with a hive mind, take over the planet before we trash the place." Notice what's missing from that idea? Characters. Conflict. But there was plenty of room to roam. I ended up with a mess of a story with a barfly who just kind of went with whatever was happening. Conflict? Nah, it's cool. At the very least, I need to know my main characters; who they are at the start and the ending of my story. Hell, y'all taught me that. "What does the MC want? What is in the way?"
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Oct 11, 2014 17:42
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crabrock posted:i need a metaphor. i'm like the guy who owns a lot, but it's in a bad part of town so I never go check on it and it's overgrown and filled with old tires and broken bottles and smells of piss.
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Oct 11, 2014 18:11
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Authorial slumlord? Haha, that's great. Apt term for all those people you meet who never clean up and submit. 36 hours to go, I've managed a single paragraph over the last two days but at least I haven't jumped in front of a train. Small victories!
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Oct 11, 2014 18:42
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magnificent7 posted:I abhor following a formula, (Save The Cat! for example). If it makes you feel any better, the greatest film accomplishment of the Save The Cat! guy was Blank Check.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:19
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 e: If you put this on infinite loop and stare at it you may be compelled to write
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Oct 13, 2014 00:26
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General Battuta posted:
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Oct 13, 2014 00:40
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General Battuta posted:
Great video and good luck on your final push! I am looking forward to seeing the final product one of these days!
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Oct 13, 2014 00:54
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I'm looking forward to not cluttering up a nice thread with whining! Appreciate the support.
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Oct 13, 2014 05:29
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General Battuta posted:a nice thread which?
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Oct 13, 2014 05:47
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PYF Weightlifting Putdowns
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Oct 13, 2014 05:55
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General Battuta posted:PYF Weightlifting Putdowns lol
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Oct 13, 2014 06:01
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Is there anything in specific you find yourself struggling with? I originally wrote the story when I couldn't think of a city to base it in, so I set it in New York City, US. Some paragraphs relied heavily on this (referring to US politics, laws, etc). As I was writing more and more, I started wanting to create a much different city than New York City, so I did. I gave it a name and I wrote a new introductory paragraph setting the scene for the city. Then I realized that this city did, of course, not exist in the United States. I'd also changed the tone to much darker than I'd written earlier, so my earlier parts didn't make sense. So I had to scan through and rewrite all those earlier parts. I'm also questioning my basic format for the entire novel. I have two central characters, and I've been going back and forth with each chapter describing how they're going to meet. They're the central protagonist and antagonist of the story. The chapters that are specific to that person are 3rd-person omniscient for that person only (i.e. if they saw the other person before *they* knew them they wouldn't know who they were). I'm wondering if this is going to cause me trouble later. I've also just sort of run out of ideas of what to do with them. Like, I have the basic arc of the story: The hero and villain are created, they're drawn to each other, and they have to collide at some point, but it's that big middle between that I don't know what to fill it with.
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Oct 13, 2014 06:19
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