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well if we're splitting my vote i don't see why you shouldn't split yours
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Oct 13, 2014 20:19
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IceAgeComing posted:for what its worth; Cameron is questioning the lack of Green inclusion in the debates, since they have an equal number of MPs to UKIP and actually elected one at the last general election Because he wants the Greens to split the left vote like UKIP are splitting the right. Cleggomania almost worked last time.
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Oct 13, 2014 20:21
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Isn't UKIP splitting the Labour vote too, if only to a lesser extent?
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Oct 13, 2014 20:30
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Lugaloco posted:Isn't UKIP splitting the Labour vote too, if only to a lesser extent? FPTP and they're hoping to eat all the disaffected Lib Dem votes, which is consistent with polling. It's Ed's election to lose: watch.
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Oct 13, 2014 20:35
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Zohar posted:Nothing 'stealth' about it in UKIP's case. Yeah, it's weird but it doesn't even need to be. Really depressing how many traditional labour voters I've heard interviewed being reminded of the fact that they will basically be more Tory than the Tories, to no effect. "But they're different from politicians, they're regular people, I trust them to stop the immigration madness" and so on.
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Oct 13, 2014 20:41
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Lugaloco posted:Isn't UKIP splitting the Labour vote too, if only to a lesser extent? http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/aa174284-5096-11e4-b73e-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3FTyepMaW quote:One Tory figure summed up the challenge facing the governing party: “Ukip take votes from everyone but they take seats from us.”
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Oct 13, 2014 20:41
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UKIP being put in the debates is just another reason for the media to cram UKIP into every single avenue of news that they possibly can, because they're full of big personalities and spit soundbites out all the time. If it was really about representing UKIP because of their MP, Plaid Cymru would have some representation.
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Oct 13, 2014 20:47
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Spooky Hyena posted:UKIP being put in the debates is just another reason for the media to cram UKIP into every single avenue of news that they possibly can, because they're full of big personalities and spit soundbites out all the time. If it was really about representing UKIP because of their MP, Plaid Cymru would have some representation. Like the SNP, Plaid Cymru will never get representation outside of regional debates because they are regional parties. Its not right that a party standing only in Scotland or in Wales takes part in a debate for the entire UK. Even as a practicality, its a waste of a debater for ~83% of the population. As poo poo as it is that UKIP are in the debates, its pretty much damned if you do and damned if you don't. If they didn't let UKIP in the debates, then they'd play "the establishment hates us and doesn't want you to know the truth" card.
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Oct 13, 2014 21:02
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HortonNash posted:Because he wants the Greens to split the left vote like UKIP are splitting the right. Cleggomania almost worked last time. Here's a fun idea mateys, instead of spoiling your ballot with a throbbing communist dick or whatever, pretend when filling it out that you're living in a universe where we have preferential voting, and number all the candidates from smallest rear end in a top hat to biggest.  Worst case scenario the counter decides to interpret the biggest number as clear preference for [poo poo party] 
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Oct 13, 2014 21:32
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Private Eye posted:Like the SNP, Plaid Cymru will never get representation outside of regional debates because they are regional parties. Its not right that a party standing only in Scotland or in Wales takes part in a debate for the entire UK. Even as a practicality, its a waste of a debater for ~83% of the population. UKIP in the general election are effectively an English regional party
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Oct 13, 2014 21:48
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With a Scottish MEP. I don't think that UKIP should be in the leadership debates - I think the whole idea of a leadership debate in the first place should be abandoned, it's too presidential, just mindless show-boating and quite unseemly - but they are indisputably a national party. kapparomeo fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 21:56
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Cerv posted:UKIP in the general election are effectively an English regional party Both UKIP and the Conservatives were the only parties to stand in every constituency in this year's European elections.
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Oct 13, 2014 21:57
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Does it make much of a difference? Even if minor parties stand solely in bumfuck nowhere, having more MPs in the house of commons means they have more influence on issues that affect the whole of the UK (a little more complicated in Scotland, but still). Plaid have more MPs, so even from an anglocentric point of view they have more influence on the price of bread in Staffordshire than UKIP does.
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Oct 13, 2014 22:01
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Will voting reform ever have a chance of happening again in the next parliament seeing as the public said no in this one? (GE voting not Scotland if that isn't clear)
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Oct 13, 2014 22:01
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kapparomeo posted:With a Scottish MEP. TinTower posted:Both UKIP and the Conservatives were the only parties to stand in every constituency in this year's European elections. specifically said uk general election, not european or whatever 
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Oct 13, 2014 22:02
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What the gently caress is going on at the Daily Star? 
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Oct 13, 2014 22:05
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Nothing new, it's always been like that. I thought it was a bad parody for years.
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Oct 13, 2014 22:07
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I guess their original front page story was considered libelous at the last minute.
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Oct 13, 2014 22:07
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quote:specifically said uk general election, not european or whatever UKIP contested 34 seats in Scotland in the 2010 General Election and they'll be pushing Scotland aggressively in 2015 as well. They polled more votes in Scotland than the Greens in both General and European Elections. It's silly to put Farage in a leadership debate but UKIP are definitely a national party.
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Oct 13, 2014 22:09
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kapparomeo posted:With a Scottish MEP. The debates continue this abandonment of cabinet in favour of presidentialism that Thatchy started. It's well poo poo. If we're going to have debates I'd much rather have university challenge style "Cabinet Vs Cabinet" debates with audience questions. Much harder to hide your shitheel members behind one well oiled PR figurehead.
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Oct 13, 2014 22:12
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What the gently caress are we gonna do about Crabzilla?
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Oct 13, 2014 22:14
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Phoon posted:What the gently caress are we gonna do about Crabzilla?  Megagull has got it sorted.
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Oct 13, 2014 22:16
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Phoon posted:What the gently caress are we gonna do about Crabzilla? Replace labour MPs with a left-wing alliance. Also face paints.
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Oct 13, 2014 22:17
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Even though the SNP are a party that represents itself only in Scotland. It still gets seats in the house of commons in the general election and can affect the policies that are made through the house of commons as a result even though it only has six seats. The SNP infact can possibly become a party that forms a UK government in the general election. Even though to do that you must have the turnout in the rUK split the votes a very good margin between every party possible, the SNP getting a lot more votes in Scotland and the turnout itself being poo poo in the rUK which might give the SNP a chance of becoming the UK government...as much as it sounds impossible. But as others have said, it only focuses itself in Scotland. But depending on how much Scotland votes for them, it can affect the rUK so...you are kind of in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation where you do include them or not. Now the Greens on the other hand can be said the same way for not getting in because they are not a UK wide party because of how S-Greens are focused in Scotland only as well and are seperate entities from the E&W-Greens, even though they do share the same principles. It's...a werid one to say the least.
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Oct 13, 2014 22:19
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winegums posted:The debates continue this abandonment of cabinet in favour of presidentialism that Thatchy started. It's well poo poo. This is a good idea actually! "Can your Chancellor of the Exchequer answer some simple questions about foundation economics?" *All parties* "Oh poo poo!"
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Oct 13, 2014 22:19
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namesake posted:
The Asylum will be working on this movie very soon!
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Oct 13, 2014 22:19
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kapparomeo posted:UKIP contested 34 seats in Scotland in the 2010 General Election and they'll be pushing Scotland aggressively in 2015 as well. They polled more votes in Scotland than the Greens in both General and European Elections. It's silly to put Farage in a leadership debate but UKIP are definitely a national party. They aren't polling higher than the greens, they're consistently at around 4-5% (greens have around 7-9%) and that gives them 0 seats no matter how generous you are. And as for their plans to take over Falkirk, ahahaha
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Oct 13, 2014 22:21
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kapparomeo posted:UKIP contested 34 seats in Scotland in the 2010 General Election and they'll be pushing Scotland aggressively in 2015 as well. They polled more votes in Scotland than the Greens in both General and European Elections. It's silly to put Farage in a leadership debate but UKIP are definitely a national party. They got less than ten percent of the vote in the European elections; the Greens stood 14 less candidates than UKIP in 2010 and only got 400 less votes; and in the 2011 Scottish elections the Greens got 4% of the vote and 2 MSPs and UKIP got less than 1% of the vote. The Greens look like standing a whole lot more candidates in 2015; assuming this common candidate list thing with the SNP and SSP amounts to nothing. You can't use European elections to describe the situation for UKIP, especially since they have much lower turnouts to General Elections, with them getting anti-European protest votes and having a base that's far more likely to turn out in a European election than the average voter of other parties. UKIP will get 5% of the Scottish popular vote share in the General Election maximum: they'll get nowhere near a seat and lose more of their deposits. The Greens probably won't poll as well as that, but there are other factors in that - they generally do better in PR elections (like locals and Holyrood) where they actually have a chance of winning something; and it wouldn't surprise me if there's some kind of unofficial deal with the SNP for the Greens to not stand in seats that they are targeting, especially since Green voters seem to think of the SNP as a decent second preference. In short; I reject the idea that UKIP are a significant political force in Scotland: at best they are the fifth political party in Westminster elections and sixth in Holyrood elections. Hell, the bloody SSP seems to have more influence on the people of Scotland than UKIP does... e: Also the Greens are polling near the Tories in recent Holyrood election polls, but they usually do a year or so out from the election so I wouldn't expect them to actually get anywhere near
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Oct 13, 2014 22:26
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madey posted:What the gently caress is going on at the Daily Star?
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Oct 13, 2014 22:28
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A cursory google search shows that their "clearly a bullshit hoax" exclusive isn't even an exclusive, they nicked it from some nutter's website. They can't even make their own poo poo up, what a bunch of hacks. Still... cheaper than the Mirror! Edit: and a free website! tooterfish fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 22:31
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Cabinet v cabinet would be great. If we're forced to pick one of these groups for power, they shouldn't be able to hide the shitters behind closed doors. I would relish Gideon being grilled by Paxman with little prep.
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Oct 13, 2014 22:48
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I appreciate that Crabzilla is fairly serious news, at the moment, but what are we going to about this plauge of black eyed children!?   Maybe the cow-sized rats could help us: 
Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 22:49
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Pesky Splinter posted:I appreciate that Crabzilla is fairly serious news, at the moment, but what are we going to about this plauge of black eyed children!? If they ask this in the debate I'll tune in to watch.
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Oct 13, 2014 22:58
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Ah yes, UKIP, the party that gets chased after with coke bottles and locked into pubs whenever they set foot in Scotland, are truly a political force because of their Scottish voters.
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Oct 13, 2014 23:00
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Coohoolin posted:Ah yes, UKIP, the party that gets chased after with coke bottles and locked into pubs whenever they set foot in Scotland, are truly a political force because of their Scottish voters. And yet somehow considerably more popular than the SSP?
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Oct 13, 2014 23:06
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Pissflaps posted:And yet somehow considerably more popular than the SSP? Why, is someone claiming that the SSP should take part in the national debates?
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Oct 13, 2014 23:16
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If the SNP and Plaid are going to be included then should we not have the Northern Ireland parties as well?
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Oct 13, 2014 23:23
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gorki posted:If the SNP and Plaid are going to be included then should we not have the Northern Ireland parties as well? Before UKIP, that was my point to start with. I only mentioned Plaid because it's the smallest of the bunch, if I'm remembering right.
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Oct 13, 2014 23:28
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Lord Twisted posted:Cabinet v cabinet would be great. If we're forced to pick one of these groups for power, they shouldn't be able to hide the shitters behind closed doors. I would relish Gideon being grilled by Paxman with little prep. Paxo has retired until M&S up the quality of their undercrackers, so we have to depend on Old brillo pad refusing to take an unrelated answer to a sensible question, then besting the lying bastards.
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Oct 13, 2014 23:29
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Excellent photo in the Guardian: they're all right, sometimes. he's like a terrifying Roomba
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Oct 13, 2014 23:37
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