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botany posted:during our military adventures in Afghanistan our soldiers ... spent most of their time eating and boozing
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Sep 30, 2014 11:32
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Nektu posted:Because creating a coherent EU military force is a nightmare compared to which bringing the Bundeswher up to par is really, really simple? It wasn't worded very well, but what I meant was that peacekeeping and rapid response troops could be expanded through a joint European force instead of Germany cooking up its own stuff. Everyone would still get to keep their cold war era commie-smashers as part of NATO. Landsknecht posted:While there were many problems associated with the creation of Germany, never forget that it is our home, and wir sind ein Volk. Germany was created at a time when other large groups (the English, the French, the Russians) were united and had a say in international affairs, and we didn't. That's just not the Germany I grew up in. In most major cities people are surrounded by "Migrationshintergrund" for several generations now and you can no longer appeal to some 19th century Volk idea to create a common identity for people living here. Being German means something different today and for most people that definition does not conflict with organizing a common European defense.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:17
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botany posted:And what, pray tell, makes you so proud to be part of the Volk? Is it the fact that our imbecilic austerity policies caused so much suffering that our boosted export rate was overshadowed by Greece's boost in infant mortality rates? Is it the fact that during our military adventures in Afghanistan our soldiers (when they weren't killing civilians by throwing bombs on fuel trucks) spent most of their time eating and boozing, to the point where the US and the UK had to tell us to get our poo poo together? The fact that we're supplying Schurkenstaaten with military equipment? So these few reasons you listed are reason enough to not be proud of Germany/to be German? Here's a few reasons why I am: - Inventions: The printing press, the automobile, x-rays, rockets (ok, maybe not so much this considering the circumstances), a whole pile of chemistry and physics discoveries - Look who won the world cup this year (with a multi-kulti team no less) -Beer - Made in Germany is known worldwide as the standard of high quality (look at German Schwerindustriekompetenz, with companies like Siemens, Volkswagen, BMW) - This is more 19th century dumb poo poo than anything, but look at Hermann and whatnot I guess there's also a sense that Germany is a generally great place to be. Maybe the weather is not that great all the time, but we have a successful economy, strongly protected civil liberties and a political process which isn't that hard to get involved with. Sure, there's all the stuff with WWII and the Holocaust, but at this point I see it more as a "remember, and make sure it never happens again" instead of "Germans are terrible and being German is terrible look what happened." Being proud of Germany doesn't mean "Germany is the best, Germans should control the world," but rather just "I like Germany and think there are many good things about it," at least for me. Should you want to see a country that has the weirdest pride in itself go to France. Many french people I know will be sure to talk about France's illustrious military history, including Napolean, and how the revolution was great and introduced democracy to Europe. They'll tell you about how French is the best language (this sentiment is responsible for much lower english knowledge than in surrounding countries), you'll here about how French wine and cuisine are the best, ever, and how the French Alps and south France are probably the best vacation destinations in all the world, and how Paris is the best city and the Louvre is the greatest museum. France has numerous lovely companies that do lovely things, the remnants of the overseas empire are a gallery of failed states, and figures like Napolean lead to a notorious reputation and eventually greatly diminished French stature (in their times), but most French people will probably tell you that the good far outweighs the bad. As for the specific things you mentioned: - Austerity is lovely for Greece, but do you have a better alternative? In a country where corruption, tax-evasion and graft were ripe, what could be done, short of some German/French bureaucrats taking over management of the country. - Maybe if the Bundeswehr wasn't so neglected, actually had a sense of mission, and didn't operate under among the most restrictive caveats during that mission, it would have been a better force. - Everyone sells weapons to lovely countries. Saudi Arabia is one of the top military spenders in the world, mostly on high-tech surveillance and stuff that American, Germany and other Europeans sell. Every dictator who isn't too over the top can buy weapons from anyone; I remember when the Libyan war was going on, some rebels managed to get their hands on a whole bunch of really shiny belgian stuff that had been sold to Gaddafi not so long before.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:34
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Landsknecht posted:So these few reasons you listed are reason enough to not be proud of Germany/to be German? Here's a few reasons why I am: I dunno, it's strange to me to be "proud" of something that was a product of the accident of birth. You could have just as easily been born anywhere else. But I'm a weird anti-patriot. Anyway, most of the things you list as reasons to be proud to be German are also exclusionary to the idea of a European identity (which you also claim as a reason for supporting a stronger German military and sense of German pride, since apparently that will somehow lead to greater European military integration through reasons  ). A strong sense of national identity is not specifically anathema to the idea of building international identities, but it doesn't help the matter either.Edit: it's not like Germany is a paradise or anything, far from it. But I see modern postwar Germany as being one of those western societies that arguably comes closest to the ideal of universal humanism (not that I didn't say they actually achieved it!). Up until fairly recently (2000ish?) I'd have argued that Germans tended to be much more universalist in their outlook, specifically because they tended not to allow a sense of national pride to encroach upon a feeling of mutual humanity. We're all Mitmenschen after all. Drone fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 19:41
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Just wait until he hears the plans for economic reform in Ukraine, Landsknecht.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:42
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I love being German. Proud not so much. I'm proud to have run a new 10 km personal record time last Sunday though.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:49
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:I love being German. Proud not so much. I'm proud to have run a new 10 km personal record time last Sunday though. A valid thing to be proud of. Just as if you had personally invented the printing press (a German didn't even do that...) It is a nice country you all have here though, I enjoy being in it.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:50
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waitwhatno posted:That's just not the Germany I grew up in. In most major cities people are surrounded by "Migrationshintergrund" for several generations now and you can no longer appeal to some 19th century Volk idea to create a common identity for people living here. Being German means something different today and for most people that definition does not conflict with organizing a common European defense. Just living next to each other (even with the greatest tolerance) means just that - I leave you alone, you leave me alone. There has to be something thats shared and in common, otherwise really pulling together (should the need arise) will be hard... Landsknecht posted:Being proud of Germany doesn't mean "Germany is the best, Germans should control the world," but rather just "I like Germany and think there are many good things about it," at least for me. 
Nektu fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 21:01
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Nektu posted:And thats honestly the biggest fuckup ever. America managed just that - to integrate everybody into a (new) common identity. And look how great that worked out for them.
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Sep 30, 2014 21:05
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As a German living in the 21st century I feel a lot closer to immigrants or foreign residents than to people who feel the need to identify with a Volk and to send the Bundeswehr to Africa to "put down" blacks.
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Sep 30, 2014 21:11
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botany posted:And look how great that worked out for them.
Nektu fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 21:11
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There's a false dichotomy whenever the "proud" thing comes up. On one hand, you have honest people who just want to be proud like everybody else. On the other hand, you have self-hating, fun-hating leftist Spar-Adornos who spend their days obsessing over historic guilt and what somebody's granddad did to the jews. (There's also actual nazis, but we don't like talking about that, don't we?) And I'd argue, I'm well aware of the specific historic situation, I think collective guilt is a concept with much merit, I'd argue fronting being proud of being German is undesirable even beyond the issue that none of the people I've seen claim to be proud of German beer are actually brewers themselves (or soccer captains, or Gutenberg ...),- but I'm still extremely glad to be here, I'd go so far as to say I love being here, I think Germany is a great place to be, and in many places behaves better politically than other nations; for example, I think we have less racism here than in many other places. That, I'd say, is the healthy middle. You don't have to be proud, you can just be happy. Being proud is a strange state usually brought up by people with a hidden agenda, or just a very narrow perspective. (Also, these people very rarely are participating in a German Leitkultur. You rarely see them enjoying Bach or Brecht. You see them going on about soccer and beer. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing; but, that's missing the best part! Watching some dude kick a ball is pretty poo poo compared to Bach or Brecht.) Drone posted:Up until fairly recently (2000ish?) I'd have argued that Germans tended to be much more universalist in their outlook, specifically because they tended not to allow a sense of national pride to encroach upon a feeling of mutual humanity. We're all Mitmenschen after all. Vanadium posted:As a German living in the 21st century I feel a lot closer to immigrants or foreign residents than to people who feel the need to identify with a Volk and to send the Bundeswehr to Africa to "put down" blacks. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 21:12
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Cingulate posted:Or even, "put up". I'm bewildered by Landsknecht's presupposition that of course, it'd be a good thing to have more interventionist options, because of course people "over there" benefit from clean educated Europeans coming there and shooting bad people. Why is it often a German's first response that sending in military detachments means the response is, of course, to shoot people, and not to build roads and bridges, construct sanitation and water treatment systems, and build emergency hospitals while training locals as staff?
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Sep 30, 2014 21:21
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Cingulate posted:Being proud is a strange state usually brought up by people with a hidden agenda, or just a very narrow perspective. Cingulate posted:Or even, "put up". I'm bewildered by Landsknecht's presupposition that of course, it'd be a good thing to have more interventionist options, because of course people "over there" benefit from clean educated Europeans coming there and shooting bad people.
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Sep 30, 2014 21:24
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My Imaginary GF posted:Why is it often a German's first response that sending in military detachments means the response is, of course, to shoot people, and not to build roads and bridges, construct sanitation and water treatment systems, and build emergency hospitals while training locals as staff? Nektu posted:Ho do you interpret for example french or american nationalistic pride in that context? I can see, I don't know, Basque patriotism. But Germany isn't the Basque country. Germany is on top of the world. Nobody needs pride in that state. Just enjoying the spoils should be enough. Nektu posted:Shhh, the real reason for interventionalism is not "human rights", but the securing of economic rights for oneself anyhow. E: Nektu, for some reason I thought I was responding to Landsknecht. I'll leave my replies standing to avoid the confusion of massive editing, but if the answers leave you unsatisfied, ask again. Cingulate fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 21:35
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Cingulate posted:And you'd think it'd be economically sane? I will admit that I am a terrible cynic in that regard, yes. Still, our way of life depends on getting all the raw materials it needs, each day, every day. And today that is no longer achieved by military power, but by economic power. Yes, that is progress, but the same basic ideas still apply. Nektu fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 21:41
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I'm not quite convinced we're looking at a bunch of cynic, but rational actors here. I think a lot of this is actually ideology, being in an extremely inhumane position, ... ah, I have no idea how those in power act and judge. Also please see my edit! Nektu posted:Still, our way of life depends on getting all the raw materials it needs, each day, every day. And today that is no longer achieved by military power, but by economic power. Yes, that is progress, but the same basic ideas still applies.
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Sep 30, 2014 21:45
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Being a little self-conscious about nationalism has served the republic so well throughout its history and I really don't see why it needs to change. Just one small example from daily life: Over here, when a university course needs to be in English for foreign students, it will be in English. No arguments. The German students have to be fluent in English by the end of their studies anyway, so suck it up. In comparison, I know some people who went to France for a exchange. They were absolutely shocked about the language attitude there. Some shithead co-workers even refused to talk to them in English because "You need to learn the language at some point, this is for your own good!"& "This is still France!". Yeah, gently caress that. Good luck with attracting foreign talent with that attitude. I'm sure your universities have a fantastic reputation among postdocs world wide! Nektu posted:And thats honestly the biggest fuckup ever. America managed just that - to integrate everybody into a (new) common identity. There are attempts to create a common European identity, for example, through student exchange programs like ERASMUS. But there is also heavy resistance from all kinds of of people worrying about how the EU is stealing their precious clay, which makes the process slow and difficult. It's easier for America, because you leave all your clay behind when you come there. No clay, no worries.
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Sep 30, 2014 22:53
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waitwhatno posted:Being a little self-conscious about nationalism has served the republic so well throughout its history and I really don't see why it needs to change. The language attitude works both ways. While there are many benefits to doing things in english, there is also something to be said for ensuring that a language is used for many things. While the French are bitchy to their detriment about having to use french, they've also managed to weasel it into things like the olympics, and during olympic ceremonies you usually hear some speeches and words in French. When was the last time you saw German used on an international level? Americans have a very different identity, and a problematic one. A lot of it isn't so much "come here and be what you want" but more "America is the best thing ever, what's wrong with you, why haven't you abandoned your culture in favour of ours?" While there is a lot of cultural mishmash (for example during this time you see a lot of "Octoberfests" in areas which had heavy german migration), you also have a lot of intolerance, especially in less urbanized areas and if you're trying to do something which comes from a non-european culture. The american right loves to make a huge stink about nearly anything islamic (or even eastern), and in the south you have all sorts of terrible poo poo which can be best understood with the phrase "but it's heritage, not hate!" How would a pan-european identity even be constructed? Europe can fairly easily be divided into a few key cultural/historical regions; which I'd say are the Iberian peninsula, greater-France, Germanic people, British isles, Italian peninsula, Nordics, Baltic peoples, west slavs and south slavs, with a few weird outliers like the Hungarians and the Greeks. You'd have trouble creating any sort of common identity within these groups (look at how much Bavarians and Berliners bitch about each other, or the Castillian-Catalonian issues in Spain), not to mention across them. I'd really worry that a pan-european identity would be used to push ideas about christianity, and how would you treat people like the turks? The turks are most certainly not a European people, looking at origin, culture, history, religion and even geography (besides istanbul/edirne), and historically one thing which united Europeans was getting together to defend against or attack the Turks (and other muslims). My experience with ERASMUS was that you'd go somewhere else and learn about it, with people from all over Europe, except there wasn't really a lot of pan-europeanism beyond "oh gosh the EU makes this easy also isn't it so nice that we don't all hate each other anymore."
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Sep 30, 2014 23:37
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Vanadium posted:As a German living in the 21st century I feel a lot closer to immigrants or foreign residents than to people who feel the need to identify with a Volk and to send the Bundeswehr to Africa to "put down" blacks. me2 Nektu posted:Yes, it did? Are you serious? The US is an incredibly racist society, there's no possible point of view from which you could claim that integration has been successful over there. My Imaginary GF posted:Why is it often a German's first response that sending in military detachments means the response is, of course, to shoot people, and not to build roads and bridges, construct sanitation and water treatment systems, and build emergency hospitals while training locals as staff? Because if that was all we wanted to do we'd be sending the THW rather than the army?
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Sep 30, 2014 23:44
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botany posted:Are you serious? The US is an incredibly racist society, there's no possible point of view from which you could claim that integration has been successful over there. I was kinda hoping you'd bring a better argument than "lol, there's still racism in the US" for that integration model, alas, to no avail.
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Sep 30, 2014 23:49
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Landsknecht posted:How would a pan-european identity even be constructed? Europe can fairly easily be divided into a few key cultural/historical regions; which I'd say are the Iberian peninsula, greater-France, Germanic people, British isles, Italian peninsula, Nordics, Baltic peoples, west slavs and south slavs, with a few weird outliers like the Hungarians and the Greeks. You'd have trouble creating any sort of common identity within these groups (look at how much Bavarians and Berliners bitch about each other, or the Castillian-Catalonian issues in Spain), not to mention across them Landsknecht posted:My experience with ERASMUS was that you'd go somewhere else and learn about it, with people from all over Europe, except there wasn't really a lot of pan-europeanism beyond "oh gosh the EU makes this easy also isn't it so nice that we don't all hate each other anymore."
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Sep 30, 2014 23:59
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Cingulate posted:Why, this surely is a great argument for German patriotism and national pride Europe as a whole is a continent with a very bloody history. Go see some heavily gold-oriented cathedrals in spain, portugal or the low countries, and realize that those tonnes (yes, there are probably at least a few hundred tonnes across spain) of new world Gold represents the deaths of millions of indigenous peoples. Look at what happened during the thirty years war. Napoleon's march across the continent. All of it is hosed, but I guess we have that in common. But I don't think you can make serious inroads across such vast cultural divides and histories, especially when you have issues across ethnic/national groups all ready. I see cultural union nations (Germany, France, Spain, Italy) as actually working to bridge divides, as it would probably be easy to balkanize the continent and people would end up thinking they have nothing in common anymore. How bad would it be if Bavaria actually left Germany, or Catalonia leaves Spain, and the people in other regions of these countries go from at least having a few things in common to starting to think "gently caress them they are different." Cingulate posted:Contrasted with a few other examples of Germans visiting the rest of Europe, that's actually pretty good. One of the funniest things I've ever seen working in the Bundestag is the international student night. There's a program which runs once or twice a year where people from all over Europe and the world come to intern in the Bundestag for a while (from a list of about 20-30 countries), and then one night they basically do some multi-kulti thing in the atrium at Paul Loebe Haus (one of the main office annexes to the Reichstagsgebaeude) where they set up little tables and and share alcohol and food from their home countries. Since so many lawmakers have their offices there this is actually a big deal and many embassies send money and staff to help set up/make sure displays are nice, but after all the Abgeordneten go home for the day they actually let all these international kids (as well as anyone else in the building) have a drunken dance party in the middle of the building. I don't know why, but every year when I see this happen I just think it's loving hilarious that there's a drunken international dance party in the main atrium of the building sandwiched between the Reichstag and the Kanzleramt.
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Oct 1, 2014 00:19
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Landsknecht posted:Americans have a very different identity, and a problematic one. A lot of it isn't so much "come here and be what you want" but more "America is the best thing ever, what's wrong with you, why haven't you abandoned your culture in favour of ours?"
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Oct 1, 2014 00:38
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There was a German poster in one of the China threads recently asking what's the deal with all these Chinese coming to Germany and not learning the language.
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Oct 1, 2014 02:05
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In America the racists are very loud and vocal but I would argue they have zero real power to actually affect the ethnic/cultural makeup of the country. NYC is one of the most diverse cities on earth, and it will stay that way no matter how loudly white racists in the South complain. Likewise with Hispanic immigration, the chances of it stopping are zero. Same with religious people and social conservatives, outside of making abortion harder in red states there's no way they can actually win and they know it. I don't know if American racists are more or less bad than European ones but the key difference is that European racists seem to have much more actual influence on policy.
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Oct 1, 2014 02:16
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icantfindaname posted:In America the racists are very loud and vocal but I would argue they have zero real power to actually affect the ethnic/cultural makeup of the country. NYC is one of the most diverse cities on earth, and it will stay that way no matter how loudly white racists in the South complain. Likewise with Hispanic immigration, the chances of it stopping are zero. Same with religious people and social conservatives, outside of making abortion harder in red states there's no way they can actually win and they know it. American political culture is also really wedded to the idea of its leaders being the most charismatically American and having the most American values of all, and when the country does something bad, it's because America and its leaders weren't being sufficiently American enough. But the problem is that not all Americans agree about which values constitute proper Americanism. This doesn't really translate into a European context. But I think pride can also be rooted in certain achievements. A lot of Americans didn't refer to the U.S. in the singular until after the civil war. When the British talk about pride (when they do) they tend to talk about things like the NHS. The European Union is so new, and so weak, that it's hard to make a positive argument for it other than the technocratic, practical arguments. The only people I really see talking about Europe as an idea, in these kinds of emotive terms, are Ukrainians who see it contrasted with this sort of Eurasian dictatorship in Moscow which they don't want to be a part of. (I also think Germans might be a little *too* practical and rational and post-ideological and so forth. Like the idea of saying "We're drawing a line in the sand for these values contrasted with Putin and Orban and etc. etc." makes people uncomfortable. "They're really just misunderstood you know...") BrutalistMcDonalds fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 02:56
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Landsknecht posted:The language attitude works both ways. While there are many benefits to doing things in english, there is also something to be said for ensuring that a language is used for many things. While the French are bitchy to their detriment about having to use french, they've also managed to weasel it into things like the olympics, and during olympic ceremonies you usually hear some speeches and words in French. When was the last time you saw German used on an international level? German has never been and will never be as much of an international lingua franca as French is. It's not because of the French's political maneuvering that French is one of the official languages of the Olympics -- it's because for centuries before English superceded it, French was the default language of diplomacy. For several hundred years, France was the most powerful country on the continent. And again, there's that whole massive French colonial empire that Germany just has nothing to compare to. Honestly in like 99% of things, I've never heard someone ever say "let's be more like the French" except when it comes to dietary issues.
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Oct 1, 2014 05:36
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Omi-Polari posted:discombobulates I just learned another word, thanks! 
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Oct 1, 2014 08:53
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Drone posted:German has never been and will never be as much of an international lingua franca as French is. It's not because of the French's political maneuvering that French is one of the official languages of the Olympics -- it's because for centuries before English superceded it, French was the default language of diplomacy. For several hundred years, France was the most powerful country on the continent. The main reason why they speak French at the olympic ceremonys is that Pierre de Coubertin (the founder of modern olympics) was French.
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Oct 3, 2014 16:15
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Omi-Polari posted:To me, this sounds a lot like Germany. It's more the opposite of Germany. If you want Germany, think of cranky old men grumbling "Why are all those people coming to us? What's wrong with them? They should stay in their own countries and stop bothering us."
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Oct 3, 2014 16:49
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Libluini posted:It's more the opposite of Germany. If you want Germany, think of cranky old men grumbling "Why are all those people coming to us? What's wrong with them? They should stay in their own countries and stop bothering us." No, Germany is more like "okay, if you really, really have to come into the best country of the world (Germany) atleast have the decency to adopt our winning ways and be exactly like us."
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Oct 3, 2014 18:31
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The Bundeswehr is stuck between the Translation from conventional fighting force to expeditionary force. Partly because considerable parts of the Establishment, for very valid reasons, were never very keen on being an expedtionary force. I would agree with them. The only real short mid or long term military threats are Russia and the USA, and expeditionary force would be inept against either, and couldnt even provide a modicum of deterrence. You also have the "Bonsai armee" effect. Germany tries to maintain operational skills for nearly everything, but because stuff is expensive, the everything is a pretty miniature version. It is actually really simple. If you want to fight some expeditionary war, and dont have to force to do so, you have to suffer the ignomity of paying market Prices for whatever resource you wanted to rob. If you have to fight a conventional war, and dont have the force to so, you may cease to exist as a nation. While I bitched endlessly about my own conscription (mostly because an unemployed guy got more money then I did), I have to say that, operationally speaking, conscription makes sense for a couple of reasons: -Considerably larger army -Creates a reserve if poo poo hits the fan -Conscripts dont get send abroad, so the entire army becomes less expeditionary which is a good thing imho. -Greater recruitment base for officers -An educational infrastructure to rapidly increase army size is in place One also shouldnt forget the influences of the transatlantic angle. When Washington partly decides were German troops go, the will to invest in Germanys army is decreased by an equivalent part. This and the fact that US Banking creates a certain "defence inflation" which considerably increases defence based Prices for any ally of the USA. I mean, I can see the Appeal of making war impossible by making it really expensive, but if this was the American plan, it just hurts US allies while giving non allies as comparative disadvantadge.
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Oct 4, 2014 17:32
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Landsknecht posted:One of the funniest things I've ever seen working in the Bundestag is the international student night. There's a program which runs once or twice a year where people from all over Europe and the world come to intern in the Bundestag for a while (from a list of about 20-30 countries), and then one night they basically do some multi-kulti thing in the atrium at Paul Loebe Haus (one of the main office annexes to the Reichstagsgebaeude) where they set up little tables and and share alcohol and food from their home countries. Since so many lawmakers have their offices there this is actually a big deal and many embassies send money and staff to help set up/make sure displays are nice, but after all the Abgeordneten go home for the day they actually let all these international kids (as well as anyone else in the building) have a drunken dance party in the middle of the building. I don't know why, but every year when I see this happen I just think it's loving hilarious that there's a drunken international dance party in the main atrium of the building sandwiched between the Reichstag and the Kanzleramt. You might've seen me there since I did IPS this past June!  And yeah Stipendiatenabend is basically the best. I have a video of the Abgeordneter I worked for getting down on the dance floor.
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Oct 4, 2014 20:37
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http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Radikale-Islamisten-bekommen-eigenes-Ausweisdokument-ohne-Chip-2427815.html Ich finde das geht nicht weit genug. Die sollte alle nen Halbmond auf die Klamotten genäht bekommen, damit die gleich ausgesondert werden. Gibts ja auch schon nen schönen Präzedenzfall.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:43
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Werft mir ruhig an den Kopf, ich könne Ereignisse nicht anders kontextualisieren als durch Videospiele, aber ich mußte erstmal an Papers Please denken.
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Oct 19, 2014 08:20
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Eezee posted:http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Radikale-Islamisten-bekommen-eigenes-Ausweisdokument-ohne-Chip-2427815.html Are you loving kidding me. I wonder how they are looking to decide who exactly is a "radical" who might look to travel to Syria? Beard length exceeding acceptable parameters? Tips from "helpful" neighbours? The clerk at the Meldeamt having a hunch?
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Oct 19, 2014 10:11
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Not to forget, keeping Germans inside the country and shooting them as a last measure is a a proud an honored tradition in Germany.
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Oct 19, 2014 11:14
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I like that potential terrorists (maybe - he totally had a beard!!) get a perso without a radio-chip, while I have to carry that thing around 
Nektu fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 11:56
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| # ? May 9, 2024 23:53 |
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Maybe that's the POINT. Maybe this thing is not even aimed at actual terrorists, but it's aimed at everyone else, so we actually see the RFID thing as a good thing to have. If we get it, but the terrorists don't, that means it's a reward right? But for serious, I had to check thrice that the URL wasn't "Der Postillon" on this one.
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Oct 19, 2014 12:20
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