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Relentlessboredomm posted:They explicitly mention him being there when they tried to take baby Korra. I always assumed that's how he died and that his tactical genius is the reason they capture the Red Lotus in the first place because boy howdy those same people were loving worthless at fighting them years later and the only change was no Sokka. The last time they fought Zaheer wasn't an Airbender.
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Oct 19, 2014 09:11
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Unrelated, but for whatever reason, I've had a preference for Zaheer's design when he was introduced than when he shaved it all off.
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Oct 19, 2014 09:18
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Relentlessboredomm posted:They explicitly mention him being there when they tried to take baby Korra. I always assumed that's how he died and that his tactical genius is the reason they capture the Red Lotus in the first place because boy howdy those same people were loving worthless at fighting them years later and the only change was no Sokka. Zaheer wasn't an air bender at the time, and Zuko & Tenzin were both younger. Zuko was hopefully trying to fight somewhere that wasn't the middle of the arctic at night, too  .Regalingualius posted:Unrelated, but for whatever reason, I've had a preference for Zaheer's design when he was introduced than when he shaved it all off. Me too, although I understand why he had the style change to reflect his wannabe air nomad status.
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Oct 19, 2014 09:43
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VanSandman posted:I do think Korra's going to have to stand for something politically at the end of this season. What, exactly, I don't know, but she's going to have to stand.
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Oct 19, 2014 11:55
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I knew that expression looked familiar - he looks like bleedin' Arnold Rimmer.
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Oct 19, 2014 12:00
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Mymla posted:Doesn't really make sense to me that she can see everything through the trees' roots, but not through the, you know, soil. This isn't blind sense, it's mystical spirit-sense. It's the "all life is connected" thing that Guru Pathik used to find Aang by touching Appa's forehead.
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Oct 19, 2014 12:23
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blurry! posted:If you're going to have a politically charged show, you have to be able to deftly describe each side of the debate. Even seemingly unreasonable philosophies, such as the Tea Party, have appealing sentiments that recruit people to their side. Otherwise, it'd gain little to no traction and wouldn't be a viable philosophy that could challenge a status quo, much less be the status quo. blurry! posted:Like in Season 4, we are left with this quandary: The World Leaders want to put an unqualified, incompetent prince on the throne to succeed an obviously corrupt Earth Queen, and Kuvira wants to rule with an iron fist. Either a dictator with a secret cultural police force that lets most of their citizens rot in poverty and crime, or a dictator with a more overt military. Both are lovely answers, but we're plainly meant to believe that Kuvira is wrong because she manipulates circumstances to her favor. Unlike Raiko who was manipulating Wu to his favor. Nobody involved her is right.
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Oct 19, 2014 13:26
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This season is going to end with kuvira in triple jail and wu introducing democracy to the earth kingpire, isn't it. No one will point out that kuvira did the best she could have under the systems that were there.
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Oct 19, 2014 13:47
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The real question on my mind is what the heck are all the airbenders doing? Supposedly they are helping people like Kai and Opal in the first episode, stopping bandits and thieves, but once a province signed loyalty to Kuvira, wasn't she guaranteeing the people's safety? And doesn't she already have most of the Earth Kingdom (oops, i mean Empire) under her control? I know there aren't many airbenders and they've only been training their abilities for 3 years but them being "streched too thin" does't quite jive with the amount of power Kuvira has taken. Also I'm glad Jinora and siblings finally have something to do. I was a little disappointed that the ONLY other Airbending master is stuck at home with the family. If Tenzin was planning on being the political head of the Air Nation, he should have sent Jinora to lead the 'troops' in the field, or vice versa. Since Tenzin already said he had all airbenders on the search for Korra, I don't know what he expects his kids to accomplish but I can't wait to see it. Sibling relationships is something I think Bryke has always done very well. EDIT: I keep forgetting that Jinora also has spirit-locator powers to help her find Korra. King of Foolians fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 16:44
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The Airbenders aren't just Earth Kingdom peace keepers, they're all around do-gooders wandering the earth and doing good. They could be anywhere doing any number of things; mediating spirit/human squabbles, cleaning up after natural disasters, doing yardwork for little old ladies, etc.
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Oct 19, 2014 18:04
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King of Foolians posted:EDIT: I keep forgetting that Jinora also has spirit-locator powers to help her find Korra. Given that Korra is not in contact with Raava, I wonder how successful she'll be. Yeah, Korra probably has a uniquely-Korra "spirit signature," but if she's looking for the avatar spirit specifically, then what if they run into trouble with Bizarro-Korra?  Spergatory posted:The Airbenders aren't just Earth Kingdom peace keepers, they're all around do-gooders wandering the earth and doing good. They could be anywhere doing any number of things; mediating spirit/human squabbles, cleaning up after natural disasters, doing yardwork for little old ladies, etc. Blowing kittens out of pipes... Carlton Banks Teller fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 18:49
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Carlton Banks Teller posted:Given that Korra is not in contact with Raava, I wonder how successful she'll be. Yeah, Korra probably has a uniquely-Korra "spirit signature," but if she's looking for the avatar spirit specifically, then what if they run into trouble with Bizarro-Korra? I'm almost certain Dark Korra is Raava trying to guide Korra where she needs to go. Given we haven't seen Dark Korra since she found Toph, and that little spirit could actually see Dark Korra, it's almost certainly not just mercury/PTSD hallucinations.
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Oct 19, 2014 20:01
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Oh yeah, I'm sure it's a manifestation of a spirit as well vs. hallucinations. I just don't know if it's Raava or (like someone in this thread guessed earlier I think?) a rebirth of Vaatu -- which I think would fit in with the season theme of Balance nicely, but also probably wrap up neatly by the end of the season..
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Oct 19, 2014 20:37
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To be honest, I think the spirit has been too helpful to be Vaatu unless recombining with Raava mellows him out a lot. Dark Korra has pretty much only ever really attacked Korra enough to keep her moving in a direction that ultimately took her where she needed to go. It just took Korra a long time to actually get there.
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Oct 19, 2014 21:58
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X_Toad posted:Doesn't that problem only arise when it comes to Amon? Unalaq didn't have followers because he was a charismatic leader with appealing ideas, he only inherited his authority over them and used a false pretense to mobilize them, with his final plan being something else entirely. Zaheer and the Red Lotus strike me as idealists and theoreticians, who wants to create a world based on an abstract concept. Only Amon's movements seemed to have really been born out of real social issues that the show could have really expanded upon instead of simply using them as a "justification" of Amon's incredible resources. I think Unulaq could have been an interesting villain had they played him as a straight theocrat. The civic issue that created him was a crisis of spirituality in a setting where spirits are manifest. In the avatar world, disrespecting or ignoring the spirits leads to dire consequences. The conflict could come from Unulaq's drive to control how people interact with the spirit world. Instead of making him into a boring 10,000 Year Reign of Super Evil villain, make him into Kung Fu Pope Gregory IX. People would follow a spiritual leader that promised to punish "heretics". That sorta thing would be right up the Avatars domain of duties. The conflict originates with Korra's lack of spirituality creating a vacuum of faith based leadership in a world that is rapidly progressing. Unulaq steps in to seize power and establish his version of spirituality, which people hop onto. It'd also make for more Grey areas with who is right. I know I didn't but Desna and Eska's crisis of loyalty when they were faced with the idea that their dad was Spirit Hitler. "Oh, he's going to destroy the world? But he's our dad!" That'd be more believable with the dad in question having more human motives.
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Oct 19, 2014 22:30
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blurry! posted:I think Unulaq could have been an interesting villain had they played him as a straight theocrat. The civic issue that created him was a crisis of spirituality in a setting where spirits are manifest. In the avatar world, disrespecting or ignoring the spirits leads to dire consequences. The conflict could come from Unulaq's drive to control how people interact with the spirit world. Instead of making him into a boring 10,000 Year Reign of Super Evil villain, make him into Kung Fu Pope Gregory IX.
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Oct 19, 2014 23:18
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X_Toad posted:Wouldn't we need an Avatar equivalent of the Church in order to have Kung Fu Gregory IX? I guess I just can't see Unalaq as a straight theocrat because the way humans interact with spirits isn't really detailed in any of the books. Even without a Church, we know that part of the Avatar position is as a bridge between the Spirit world and the physical world. Since Korra hadn't been strong in embracing her spiritual side at the beginning of season 2, Unalaq could have tried to declare himself the Bridge, punishing 'heretics' that don't respect spirits, etc.
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Oct 20, 2014 00:11
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I just hope we get about a paragraph from Bryke someday soon-ish about what happened to Sokka. I do think that him dying protecting Korra from the Red Lotus would be the best way for him to go out, but they missed their chance to make that a thing last season. I have to give them props for not giving all of the Gaang kids or grandkids though, it's nice to see the childless life get acknowledged, even if it's not how I'd like to live my life. Of course, Su-Yin: Secret Sokka-Toph lovechild would be pretty great.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:02
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NowonSA posted:I just hope we get about a paragraph from Bryke someday soon-ish about what happened to Sokka. I do think that him dying protecting Korra from the Red Lotus would be the best way for him to go out, but they missed their chance to make that a thing last season. I have to give them props for not giving all of the Gaang kids or grandkids though, it's nice to see the childless life get acknowledged, even if it's not how I'd like to live my life. Of course, Su-Yin: Secret Sokka-Toph lovechild would be pretty great. I hope we find out what happened to Sokka too, as well as some of the other characters like Suki, Ty Lee, and possibly Mai, depending on whether she actually married Zuko. One thing I like about this show is that the childfree characters are just as badass as the characters with kids, if not more: Lin personifies badass, and Bumi and Kya have accomplished a lot on their own as well. The adult characters as a whole have their own storylines, with their own regrets, fears, and desires, and that's fairly rare for a show like this.
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Oct 20, 2014 02:22
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I did sort of expect Unalaq to declare himself Avatar using Vattu's powers (only to be inevitably betrayed, precipitating Ten Thousand Years Of Darkness). But then, there's a lot about Book 2 that I expected to turn out better. Thankfully, it's awesome now. Change the thread title. Korra fears being the Avatar, although she doesn't think she does. That position has made her many powerful enemies, enemies who frightened her then and frighten her still even after their defeat. Amon alone would be traumatic enough, threatening to take away the part of her she values most and then fulfilling that threat, using the most terrifying of all bending arts, which leaves its victim utterly helpless. Unalaq and Vattu, in addition to the "end of the world" thing, symbolize the consequences of succumbing to the failure and ignorance that have hung over hundreds of past Avatars. And Zaheer worked with three of the most dangerous people in the world to try to brainwash her as a child. All this before she had to fight against the excruciating mind-altering poison that forced her to resist by any means drawing on the Avatar's defining power. And now the world lacks balance. There's no balance to be had between the feckless puppet Wu and the fascist thug Kuvira; even Mako and Bolin, despite their misgivings about their respective positions, won't be able to find reconciliation without her. Toph is trying to push her buttons by calling her "pathetic" and "the worst Avatar ever," but that's not going to work because she doesn't disagree. She's perfectly willing to stand there and get owned in the mud all day, because defeating the greatest earthbender who ever lived is something only the Avatar could do. She's afraid to win. However, despite what Tenzin says, the situation in the Earth Empire isn't something that requires the Avatar. All that's needed to bring balance is Korra. Reconciling the brothers will require not a spiritual leader but a friend. Thwarting Kuvira's ambitions without bringing ruin to her people, or war to all corners of the world, will not need someone who transcends the nations, just a strong and courageous fighter with an even stronger and more courageous conscience. While it's certainly appropriate for the bridge between humans and spirits to be the one who ends whatever blasphemous horror Varrick is about to unleash, the whole point of the aftermath of Harmonic Convergence was that people and spirits should realize for themselves that they shouldn't abuse each other. And although Tenzin echoed Ozai in sending his children off to fetch the Avatar, it's their connection to her as a person that will see them through their search.
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Oct 20, 2014 02:45
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Wouldn't Korra just punching Kuvira in the face until she was defeated just be another form of fascism? It's the same thing Kuvira would do to Korra if she felt it was necessary. It's hard to argue with Kuvira's desire to rule the earth kingdom when there aren't exactly a lot of other good options. The rest of the world is ruled by absolute monarchs whose position is chosen based on who came out of who's vagina. Reiko is the only exception to the rule, and season 2 REALLY skimmed over how he got his power, and now he's doing whatever he wants with it, including putting another despot on the throne of the earth kingdom, again on the basis of blood relations to the last despot, then picking his advisers for him. No one from the earth kingdom weighed in on the decision that we've seen. Democracy isn't a thing in their world that they talk about. It's more or less might-makes-right, or sounding like you'd be a good leader makes you a good leader, or being the child of a good leader makes you a good leader, even though we've seen plenty of examples of that not actually being true. So for Kuvira to come in and say, "Based on the last three years, I'm seem to be the only one who genuinely cares about the Earth Kingdom, and is willing to put in the hard work to keep society running, so gently caress it, it's mine," is not at all an unreasonable thing to do. Take away the whole prison camp thing and her being overbearing and evil about capturing villages and she's got a pretty good case for leadership. The show practically requires her to overreach, because if she didn't, there would be no reason for Korra to fight her.
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Oct 20, 2014 03:02
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Korra could live up to the season's title by finding a better option. Not an abstract one either, but something concrete. Without the Avatar, there's no balance, so of course the only options are gonna be Bad and Worse.
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Oct 20, 2014 03:09
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dj_clawson posted:Wouldn't Korra just punching Kuvira in the face until she was defeated just be another form of fascism? It's the same thing Kuvira would do to Korra if she felt it was necessary. So what you're saying is Kuvira is Bizarro and Korra will beat her to a pulp while crying 
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Oct 20, 2014 03:47
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Actually, why don't they just make the Avatar the ruler of the world? With the Avatar cycle, you basically never have any question regarding the succession, since new Avatars are literally reincarnated with the memories and experience of their past selves. The Avatar is also able to tap into mystical, reality-altering powers and commune with forces from beyond the physical plane of existence. Why not simply worship the Avatar as the living incarnation of Divine power that they literally, actually are, and instate him or her as their immortal God-King? In fact, I am surprised that an "Avatar cult" had not already arisen and established itself in the world long ago! Korra should seize power by force, and force everyone to kow-tow to her will!! 
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Oct 20, 2014 03:52
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DrSunshine posted:Actually, why don't they just make the Avatar the ruler of the world? With the Avatar cycle, you basically never have any question regarding the succession, since new Avatars are literally reincarnated with the memories and experience of their past selves. The Avatar is also able to tap into mystical, reality-altering powers and commune with forces from beyond the physical plane of existence. Why not simply worship the Avatar as the living incarnation of Divine power that they literally, actually are, and instate him or her as their immortal God-King? In fact, I am surprised that an "Avatar cult" had not already arisen and established itself in the world long ago! Yes, those 16-year breaks (plus all the training time) really worked out for Tibetan government and certainly no ministers murdered the reincarnated children before they could reach adulthood so the ministers could keep their jobs ruling the country as regents. (see: Dalai Lamas 8-12)
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Oct 20, 2014 03:56
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dj_clawson posted:Yes, those 16-year breaks (plus all the training time) really worked out for Tibetan government and certainly no ministers murdered the reincarnated children before they could reach adulthood so the ministers could keep their jobs ruling the country as regents. Not agreeing with the whole "Avatar as ruler" thing, but wouldn't the Avatar state kick in at moments of mortal peril like with Aang?
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Oct 20, 2014 04:03
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Sato posted:Not agreeing with the whole "Avatar as ruler" thing, but wouldn't the Avatar state kick in at moments of mortal peril like with Aang? ... and then if they succeed in killing him/her, end of cycle! Which is possible.
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Oct 20, 2014 05:01
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Also being the Avatar doesn't necessarily mean you have the knowledge to go with it without years of training. Otherwise you get Wu with superpowers.
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Oct 20, 2014 05:07
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Plus, well, all they've got to go on is that the next Avatar will come from the bending style in the cycle. As Roku demonstrated, even that can lead to it taking the better part of two decades to find the next; Korra's probably more of an outlier in terms of how soon she was found.
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Oct 20, 2014 05:30
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Regalingualius posted:Plus, well, all they've got to go on is that the next Avatar will come from the bending style in the cycle. As Roku demonstrated, even that can lead to it taking the better part of two decades to find the next; Korra's probably more of an outlier in terms of how soon she was found. They knew who Roku was; they just decided to hold to tradition and not tell him or begin his training until he was 16. They were supposed to do that with Aang, but they didn't wait, which is why Aang freaked out and flew away, and wasn't there when they needed him. Roku also spent like a decade training in the other elements, which now makes him look like a pretty slow learner, considering Aang got some level of mastery of all four elements by 13 and Korra mastered everything but air before she was 16.
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Oct 20, 2014 05:59
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The underlying theme and challenge for Korra is to make the Avatar relevant again. Since the first episode, we've seen that, either by intent or accident, that the Avatar is considered archaic and irrelevant by society at large. Despite knowledge of the Avatar's identity since a young age, she's been sequestered away, sheltered from society. She doesn't seem to have been schooled at all in even basic diplomacy or politics. She's met with disrespect, demands, and dismissal by nearly every person she meets besides her close friends. This is a far cry from the previous perception of the Avatar as a global institution that we see in previous incarnations (to the point I almost want to chalk it up to poor wiring). People used to revere the Avatar as a sacred being, even after a century of absence during an era of crisis. The word of the Avatar carried immense weight. Now the Avatar is treated as a simple mix of celebrity and politician, or a novel curiosity of a bygone era. What I hope to see with season four is the writers deconstruct Korra's superhero complex. She's acted for the most part with this viewpoint that the Avatar swoops in, beats up the bad guy, solves the problem, and BAM balance. The very first thing she does as Avatar is capture some common ne'er-do-wells. Just like a superhero! But that doesn't really help. She spends the next few seasons reacting to threats and problems like she's a comic book hero. Speak boldly, fight bravely. Be loud, throw some punches. But she didn't fix anything, not really. She didn't truly help anybody. The true power of the Avatar isn't the strength of their bending, or their ability to commune with spirits. These are just executive powers and badges of office. The true power of the Avatar has always been, we've seen, in the political. As a public institution. Kyoshi defeated Chin the Conqueror not by directly striking him down, but defying his right to rule, allowing him to break himself as he threw himself against the Will of the Avatar. Roku put Sozin in his place by defying his expansionist principles. Aang ended the war by bringing low Ozai by an action the went beyond a simple display of battle prowess. True, these were all backed up by the powers of the Avatar, but the point still stands that they were actions that lent credibility and legitimacy to the Avatar as a political leader that all others deferred to. And every foe had been defined by a unifying motive and Creed: the time of the Avatar is over. It's an obsolete idea that has no use in this modern era. Korra, in order to succeed, must prove them wrong. Korra has up until now acted as a pugilist. A cop. A fighter. Not a leader that works to provide answers and solutions to problems, but a hammer that simply beats down problems as the pop up. Even now she can only think of the Avatar as a super hero, which means someone who wins battles with blows. She asks Toph to get her back into Avatar "Fighting Shape". I think, no matter the expressed identity of the Dark Korra, it's a metaphor for Korra's perception of what the Avatar is "supposed" to be. It's savage violence and brute strength. It's going it alone, borne of her rejecting the help of others (after all, she was unable to beat any of the antagonists in season 3; her allies all came together to aid her). Korra sees it haunt her constantly as she tries to go it alone without enlisting and leading others. Toph, in her role as wise mentor, says one of the best lines "Get over yourself. The world doesn't need you!" But she leaves our the last bit: Korra needs everyone else.
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Oct 20, 2014 06:15
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blurry! posted:And every foe had been defined by a unifying motive and Creed: the time of the Avatar is over. It's an obsolete idea that has no use in this modern era. Korra, in order to succeed, must prove them wrong. The real gently caress here, and I think your analysis of the show's political weaknesses is spot-on but this is a separate yet related thing, is that not only has this been every villain's central thesis but every villain has been right. Each one has shown that even though the Avatar seems to be an unchallengeably powerful eternal institution, she can in fact be overcome and/or replaced with cleverness, gumption, and bravery. In theory the avatar will swoop down and wield their powers to defeat any miscreant whose actions threaten the order of the world, but that turns out to be exactly the same "in theory" that once described Firelord Ozai's world domination; though the status quo seems blessed with innumerable advantages, our heroes (in this case, our villains) are just plucky enough to turn the tides and save the day anyway. The end result is that, as you say, this is a superhero comic rather than the retelling of a myth. The show is primarily about Superman being interrupted and dragged down by forty different kinds of kryptonite (the latest is quicksilver kryptonite) rather than about a modern teenaged girl trying to deal with the fact of her being an incarnation of divine wrath. It'd be a lot more interesting to see how a fully-realized Avatar deals with a modern world that's spinning rapidly out of control than to see how a fully-realized Avatar deals with tranq darts and food poisoning.
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Oct 20, 2014 07:52
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blurry! posted:The underlying theme and challenge for Korra is to make the Avatar relevant again. Since the first episode, we've seen that, either by intent or accident, that the Avatar is considered archaic and irrelevant by society at large. Despite knowledge of the Avatar's identity since a young age, she's been sequestered away, sheltered from society. She doesn't seem to have been schooled at all in even basic diplomacy or politics. She's met with disrespect, demands, and dismissal by nearly every person she meets besides her close friends. It hit me on watching the last episode that Wu and Korra are facing the same issue: they're both groomed to be the Avatar/King from birth, roles that are (as you said) seen as archaic and irrelevant. The Avatar's a promotional photo for some guy's shack, the Earth King's throne is used to entertain kids in a gimmicky all-you-can-eat buffet.
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Oct 20, 2014 08:33
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blurry! posted:The underlying theme and challenge for Korra is to make the Avatar relevant again. Since the first episode, we've seen that, either by intent or accident, that the Avatar is considered archaic and irrelevant by society at large. Despite knowledge of the Avatar's identity since a young age, she's been sequestered away, sheltered from society. She doesn't seem to have been schooled at all in even basic diplomacy or politics. She's met with disrespect, demands, and dismissal by nearly every person she meets besides her close friends. blurry! posted:The true power of the Avatar isn't the strength of their bending, or their ability to commune with spirits. These are just executive powers and badges of office. The true power of the Avatar has always been, we've seen, in the political. As a public institution. Kyoshi defeated Chin the Conqueror not by directly striking him down, but defying his right to rule, allowing him to break himself as he threw himself against the Will of the Avatar. Roku put Sozin in his place by defying his expansionist principles. Aang ended the war by bringing low Ozai by an action the went beyond a simple display of battle prowess. True, these were all backed up by the powers of the Avatar, but the point still stands that they were actions that lent credibility and legitimacy to the Avatar as a political leader that all others deferred to. Is blurry! one of SuperMechaGodzilla's alts?
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Oct 20, 2014 09:16
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NowonSA posted:I just hope we get about a paragraph from Bryke someday soon-ish about what happened to Sokka. I do think that him dying protecting Korra from the Red Lotus would be the best way for him to go out, but they missed their chance to make that a thing last season. I have to give them props for not giving all of the Gaang kids or grandkids though, it's nice to see the childless life get acknowledged, even if it's not how I'd like to live my life. Of course, Su-Yin: Secret Sokka-Toph lovechild would be pretty great. Honestly I think that, if they were to do it all over again, Bryke wouldn't have killed off Sokka. The thing to remember is that originally, Korra was only going to be a one season mini-series, and it wasn't until after the premier of season one got such huge ratings that Nick turned around and signed them to four seasons at 12 episodes each. Once they realized they were going to be going for a lot longer, they felt more comfortable bringing back old characters like Zuko or Toph that would have just hogged the spotlight in a mini series. But with Sokka they specifically called out his death (Katara's line was something like "my brother and most of the others are gone") so they couldn't wiggle out of that one.
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Oct 20, 2014 09:22
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Kuriva kinda reminds me of Raava? If that makes sense? Kinda ruthless but ordered. I mean all the forces of evil so far have been chaos oriented till now so maybe its time for some lawful evil...
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Oct 20, 2014 09:46
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Kuvira certainly has Unalaaq's demeanour, though her plans are less crazy.
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Oct 20, 2014 09:50
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Kuvira has the advantage over Unalaq of not explicitly wanting to turn herself into Energybeam Hitlerzilla.
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Oct 20, 2014 14:29
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Hauldren Collider posted:Kuvira has the advantage over Unalaq of not explicitly wanting to turn herself into Energybeam Hitlerzilla. Yet... you never know with the Varrick experiment.
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Oct 20, 2014 14:57
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dj_clawson posted:Wouldn't Korra just punching Kuvira in the face until she was defeated just be another form of fascism? It's the same thing Kuvira would do to Korra if she felt it was necessary. Yes, perhaps fighting fascism is the real fascism.
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Oct 20, 2014 16:01
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