|
Cythereal posted:I'm not looking forward to it, to be honest. All of ADB's 40k works have felt very same-y to me. He tells a good story with good characters, but he's almost as bad as the Ciaphas Cain books when it comes to my sense of "Haven't I read this before?" when I read each book of his. Each to their own, the guy is at the start of his career and has a lot of room to grow. He posted this about it which has me pretty pumped tbh. ADB posted:In this case, at the last BL Weekender on one of the Heresy panels, it was asked what happened in the First Black Crusade, seeing as Cadia wasn't reinforced by that point. And I replied that I liked the idea of the Imperium victorious after the Scouring, committing the Nine Legions to the role of myth and legend while the Legions were trapped in the purgatory of the Eye. So when the newly formed Black Legion returns at the vanguard of the Armies of the Damned, they're almost entirely unopposed. Almost. "There's this ancient knight-king, leaning on his sword as he sits on his throne, a thousand years old but too proud and dutiful to die. And when the Black Legion break out of the Eye, the Black Templars are waiting for them." Hugely outnumbered: the only ones that insisted the Imperium's sins would come home to roost, the only Chapter to face humanity's sins coming back to haunt the species. As the Crusade unfolds, a lot of the Imperium joins in. But Sigismund was there first, waiting for Abaddon. The one duel he never got to fight on Terra.
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 01:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 16:22 |
|
|
Boon posted:Oh but it is. Pretty sure it's: Roll to hit. Roll to wound. Roll Look out Sir! Allocate wounds. Roll for armor saves. So you either you LOSir the wounds away OR you try out your fancy 2+ save. You don't get to use LOSir if you fail an armor save.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 01:27
|
|
|
Boon posted:I don't think FNP would stop it from dropping because you would have still technically failed the save. "... is lost for the rest of the battle at the end of any phase in which the model suffers one or more unsaved wound." Failing your 2+ but passing on your FNP means you don't end the phase with an unsaved wound. At least, this is my reading of it. Lovely Joe Stalin fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Oct 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 01:29
|
|
|
^^^ Ah okay. Thanks for the clarification - even better then. CyberLord XP posted:Pretty sure it's: Yeah, I edited original post - but I contend that it's still very beneficial to Wraithguard. To me, the Archon isn't meant to stay alive. His purpose is to put a deadly unit in a critical place and then to help them survive. If/when he dies, who cares? He grants a 2+ save to the unit (if he's closest) while receiving a T6 for shooting purposes. Boon fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Oct 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 01:29
|
|
|
Chiwie posted:He posted this about it which has me pretty pumped tbh. Eh. I suspect it's already obvious what the major story beats are going to be. We know Abbadon isn't going to die. We know Sigismund is probably going to die. It will be sweeping and emotional and tragic and very normal for an ADB book. I like the guy as an author and he tells a good story, but I have trouble telling his stories apart from book to book. From my armchair author's perspective, I think ADB needs to stretch himself more, write different stories and characters. I have no plans to pick up any more of his books because of how same-y they've all felt.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 01:29
|
|
|
I've only read a little black library literature, mostly just the early books from the horus heresy series and they were pretty good for the most part. Has anyone read Dead Men Walking? Is it worth paying like 60 bucks or so for it on amazon so I can read a novelization of my army playing against my friend's necrons or should I just put that money toward buying more mans?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 01:55
|
|
|
I read 40k literature for the well written story arcs + characters
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 02:21
|
|
|
Y'all abunch of boneheads
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 02:23
|
|
|
Direwolf posted:Well, a bike gives you relentless twin linked bolters, +1T (and therefore more instant death survival), turbo boost faster than cavalry run; the steed gives you +1A and Outflank, which means that you will come in later and possibly on the wrong side of the board. You are font of wisdom and inspiration for a hopeless list builder! I really appreciate the input and I'm going to get to building what you suggested straight away. I'll probably do a biker lord on a bike, but one day I'm going to build the "Four Horsemen of Chaos". They will each be riding a mutated dinosaur. I see it in my mind and it is GLORIOUS! It's probably already been done:(. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 02:36
|
|
|
Lord Thrust posted:You are font of wisdom and inspiration for a hopeless list builder! I really appreciate the input and I'm going to get to building what you suggested straight away. I'll probably do a biker lord on a bike, but one day I'm going to build the "Four Horsemen of Chaos". They will each be riding a mutated dinosaur. I see it in my mind and it is GLORIOUS! It's probably already been done:(. Thanks!  Godspeed!
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 02:40
|
|
|
Rapey Joe Stalin posted:"... is lost for the rest of the battle at the end of any phase in which the model suffers one or more unsaved wound." Failing your 2+ but passing on your FNP means you don't end the phase with an unsaved wound. At least, this is my reading of it. Except that FNP specifically isn't a save, I thought. So you would suffer an unsaved wound according to a literal reading. Who knows with the way the rules are written what the intended interaction is, though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 02:44
|
|
|
According to the wording of the FNP entry it isn't a "saving throw" but it is a save. It stands to reason that if FNP saves a wound, and thus that wound never alters the character's statline, then that character did not "suffer an unsaved wound".
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 02:54
|
|
|
Rapey Joe Stalin posted:According to the wording of the FNP entry it isn't a "saving throw" but it is a save. Yeah the wording of "unsaved wound" is to clarify confusion that may arise from the fact that you are wounded, and then save the wound, and thus technically your character could be wounded ten thousand times in a battle but not actually lose any wounds, so if you just talked about "wounds" or characters being "wounded" it would be a much broader category. "Saving throw" isn't as discrete a category/term.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 03:07
|
|
|
I just double-checked and that's correct--FNP entry says "treat it as having been saved" so my bad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 03:28
|
|
|
Direwolf posted:Well, a bike gives you relentless twin linked bolters, +1T (and therefore more instant death survival), turbo boost faster than cavalry run; the steed gives you +1A and Outflank, which means that you will come in later and possibly on the wrong side of the board. Acute senses also, so you reroll the outflank edge.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 03:46
|
|
|
Do we know if Ultramarines are in the next book? They are, right?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 03:57
|
|
|
REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Do we know if Ultramarines are in the next book? They are, right? They are, along with the Solar Auxilia. It's the Calth book.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 04:00
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:They are, along with the Solar Auxilia. It's the Calth book. I think the next book has a mix of the legions already shown so far. Maybe with the dark mechanicus and the auxilia? I'm pretty sure Calth will be book 5.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 04:05
|
|
|
If a model, multi-wound or otherwise, doesn't remove a wound from its profile, it doesn't suffer the effects from it. The exception is weapons that specify the effect takes place when hit by said weapon/effect, rather than wounded.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 04:06
|
|
|
Safety Factor posted:I think the next book has a mix of the legions already shown so far. Maybe with the dark mechanicus and the auxilia? I'm pretty sure Calth will be book 5. I think it's both. IIRC, Calth is the Ultramarines, Solar Auxilia, Dark Mechanicus, and Shattered Legions - cobbled together Iron Hands, Raven Guard, and Salamanders forces.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 04:09
|
|
|
Right, so about Grey Knights and the Nemesis Strike Force. The basic idea of the NSF is pretty easy - show up turn one and saturate some of your opponent's army with all of yours. Demolish one flank and work your way down. Last week I played in a Rogue Trader tourney - 1500 points, min 600 points of troops, no non-troop duplicate units - and I don't think that plan ever loving worked. Still, I went 3-1 and I can at least go over damage control when reserve rolls loving hate you. My army was: Librarian: Level 3, Hammer, Combi-melta, Domina Liber Daemonica Purifiers: 2 Halberds, 2 Hammers, 2 Incinerators in a - Stormraven: Melta, Assault Cannon, Locator Beacon Strike Squad: Combat Squad 1 - Hammer Justicar, 4 Halberds. Combat Squad 2 - 3 Swords, 2 Psycannons. Combat Squad 2 is in a- Imperial Bunker: Comms Relay Terminator Squad: Hammer, 2 Halberds, Psycannon Terminator Squad: Hammer, 2 Halberds, Psycannon Dreadknight: Teleporter, Heavy Psycannon This is pretty typical, though if I had to do it again I'd drop the Strikes for a third Termi Squad and find the points to buff the Purifiers to 10. If you're not constrained to 40% troops a second Dreadknight would definitely be on the table. Game 1 - Tau Fireblade 2x 12 Fire Warrior teams Devilfish 2x 10Kroot Snipers with Krootox 8 Pathfinders AA Missile Team - 2 Crisis Suits with 2x MP and Skyfire, one with Puretide and C&C Node Single Suit with 2x Fusion Riptide with Ion and Interceptor Ion Hammerhead with Longstrike Aegis Line  The mission setup was two objectives, worth three points each. Quirk was an unengaged unit controlling an objective could deepstrike within 6" of the other objective at the beginning of the movement phase. Pretty basic deployment, as seen below. I set my bunker up front and center, holding my objective, Tau set up a gunline to do Tau bullshit. I'm going second. Turn 1: Big goddamn mistake. The fusion suit uses his objective to deep strike next to my bunker, hits, pens, massive explosion, 22 S6 hits on the unit inside, they're wiped out. Oops. I start joking about being tabled turn 1. The Riptide takes a Nova wound, everyone shuffles. In comes my Dreadknight and Both Terminators. Command team goes first - I place them smack-dab in the middle of his army. It's a big risk, I only have an inch or two clearance on every side. I'm praying for my Warlord Trait re-roll scatter and the chance to mess with his Riptide interceptor is too valuable to pass up. They scatter 8" off the table, but hit on the re-roll. The Dreadknight enters flanking his Aegis line. The Ion Accelerator scatters off the table, leaving my Terminators pristine. Invisibility goes off and I start doing the Grey Knight thing. Manage to put a hull point on Longstrike with a Psycannon, the Dreadknight kills 8 Firewarriors with the Psycannon. Turn 2: Both Kroot Squads come in to take my bare objective. Shooting takes down one Terminator and the wounded Firewarriors and missile team manage to kill the Dreadknight. Man, I was pissed about that. Everything flees away from the Terminators. The second squad of Terminators lands behind a building to deny him an Interceptor shot and also block off that part of the board, and the Strike Squad comes in to try and hold my own objective. Shooting kills half the right Kroot, another hull point on Longstrike and takes a point on the Devilfish. A multi-charge against the 'fish and the full Firewarrior team kills off the Devilfish but the Firewarriors stand fast, which was the hope by diluting. Turn 3: With Terminators on his right flank and everything murdered or in combat on his left my opponent is forced to move toward the middle of his line. Kroot fire kills a few of my Strike Squad and firepower kills two members of the unengaged Terminators. In response I fire on and charge the Kroot unit, and win combat eventually. The Stormraven makes it in, flying the full 36" as the Purifiers jump out the back - normally I'd switch to hover and disembark them, but I can't pass up the opportunity to deal some damage. They don't scatter enough to matter and set up for a Cleansing Flame that wipes out both surviving infantry units, kills two missile suits and puts 2 wounds on the Riptide. Missile fire from the 'raven and the Terminators cleans up the left, and Purifier and Assault Cannon finishes off the missile suits. Between the Stormraven and using the objective to redeploy the second Kroot squad dies and my opponent is tabled turn 5. Game 2 - Chaos Chaos Lord with Murdersword Chaos Termies x4 Land Raider Cultists x10 Noise Marines 2x Blastmasters Warp Talons x6 Maulerfiend Helldrake (Everything marked Slannesh. Everything.) Mission setup was whichever is d3+2 objectives. We got 3.  Turn 1: I get first turn, everyone comes in. Strike Squad comes in out of LoS of the Noise Marines, Librarian tries to hit the rocks to take advantage of having Shrouding. Terminators move to support the bunker if the Land Raider moves forward instead of to my flank, and the Dreadknight tries for behind the Maulerfiend but mishaps and gets put in a corner. My first round of shooting leaves the Maulerfiend exploded from the Combi-melta and several Warp Talons dead - but enough are left to catch my Strike Squad and massacre it. Turn 2: The 'raven puts two hull points on his LR and shooting kills half the cultists. On his side the Helldrake Vector Strikes the 'raven for a hull point and the flamer depopulates my bunker. Turn 3: The Dreadknight catches the Talons and punches them. Purifiers abandon ship, Cleansing Flame the Helldrake from the sky. Shooting pops oopen the LR, but I fail my charge. On his turn he hits my Librarian unit with his lord, I accept the Murdersword challenge because I'm not a bitch. Librarian and his unit die. Turn 4: Lord and his unit eat all the Stormstrike missiles, cease to be. Cleanup.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 04:19
|
|
|
EDIT: Thought better of it, I might not be able to comfortably do that just yet.
Dr. Red Ranger fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Oct 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 04:28
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:One thing to beware of if you play a 40k army against a 30k: 30k has some of the meanest special characters ever to grace the battlefield, including not only the Primarchs but also characters like Sigismund, Kharn, and Sevatarion who will happily slapchop supposedly dangerous melee units. It does, but the fact that 30K armies don't have ATSKNF (and are typically a bit middling on morale overall) ends up being quite a disadvantage. Also, the fact that they are compelled to take large blocks of infantry, making them easy targets for blast weapons and limiting their flexibility in shooting/assaulting. ("Good job killing those five Dire Avengers with your Fury of the Legion attack.") 30K has some scary stuff in it, but it's chained to such an awkward basic setup that it isn't really in any danger of being strong most of the time. raverrn posted:Right, so about Grey Knights and the Nemesis Strike Force. The basic idea of the NSF is pretty easy - show up turn one and saturate some of your opponent's army with all of yours. Demolish one flank and work your way down. Last week I played in a Rogue Trader tourney - 1500 points, min 600 points of troops, no non-troop duplicate units - and I don't think that plan ever loving worked. Still, I went 3-1 and I can at least go over damage control when reserve rolls loving hate you. Well, the big problem is that your locals are running a really lovely and restrictive system for tournaments. Grey Knights barely have any options in their book, so taking away even more of them is incredibly punishing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 06:11
|
|
|
That is a pretty interesting overview to me, even with the strict restrictions on them. Any reason for not going with two ranged weapons on the dreadknight aside from points?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 06:22
|
|
|
AbusePuppy posted:Well, the big problem is that your locals are running a really lovely and restrictive system for tournaments. Grey Knights barely have any options in their book, so taking away even more of them is incredibly punishing. Rulebook Heavily posted:That is a pretty interesting overview to me, even with the strict restrictions on them. Any reason for not going with two ranged weapons on the dreadknight aside from points? raverrn fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Oct 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 15:14
|
|
|
You've had to cover most of the vehicle since at least 5th edition.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 16:59
|
|
|
raverrn posted:Honestly it's not that bad. Sure GK take it low, but its nice to see just one Annihilation Barge or Wraithknight on the other side of the table. I dislike that sort of thing because it heavily punishes some books while leaving others pretty much untouched. For example, a Space Marine Bikers list- which, I will note, is arguably top three in the game right now- gives almost exactly zero shits about those restrictions; on the other hand, Dark Eldar and Sisters of Battle, codices that hardly need to be reigned in, take it in the pants from those kind of restrictions. It's exactly the kind of short-sighted, slapdash attempts to "fix" things that really irk me. I understand that a lot of people don't like where the game is at right now, and I can hardly blame them for that, but the problems aren't as simple as "force everyone to take more troop units and ban spamming and everything will be fine." Those restrictions can't even really be defended from a pure-fluff standpoint, because it makes armies like Speed Freaks or Haemonculous Covens or many others completely unplayable.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 17:07
|
|
|
Squifferific posted:Mind posting the full list you used? Tank Commander Pask– Leman Russ Punisher – 210 Leman Russ Exterminator – 130 Company Command Squad – Master of Ordnance – 80 Commissar – 25 Ministorum Priest – 25 Tempestus Scions – 2 melta guns – 90 Platoon Command Squad – missile launcher – 45 Infantry Squad – plasma gun, autocannon – 75 Infantry Squad – plasma gun, autocannon – 75 Infantry Squad – plasma gun, autocannon – 75 Platoon Command Squad – 4 flamers – 50 Infantry Squad – melta gun, power axe – 75 Infantry Squad – melta gun, power axe – 75 Infantry Squad – melta gun, power axe – 75 3 Scout Sentinels – autocannons – 120 Leman Russ Executioner – 155 Manticore – 170 Aegis Defence Line – quad gun – 100 Total: 1650 Basically I felt the sentinels weren't worth it (I knew already, but I felt I needed something for linebreaker), neither was the ADL or the way I used my stand-back infantry blob. I would also be inclined to go all-tanks or all-artillery for my support.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 18:10
|
|
|
code:Playing against my friends Chaos list, he's got 2 heldrakes and Belakor in his list, plus an invisible biker lord riding with a tide of nurgle spawn. He's a pretty competitive player, does well in tournaments, and I'm trying to become a better player in general. Does this look like a balanced list for taking on that kind of flak? My game plan is to have two smaller blobs sitting in my backfield plinking away, while a third blob with two flamers led by the Lord Commissar sneak through cover to capture objectives and hit his troops (mostly cultists). I've got two flak missiles launchers for flying targets, and two vendettas (with an Navy officer to try and get them in on turn 2, or maybe to delay his Heldrakes). My Russes have a lot of dakka in case his Biker Lord with Sorcerer and Spawn get invisibility off, and battle cannons for if they don't (and firing ordnance wouldn't affect the sponsons and hull shooting because I am betting I'll have to snap shoot with them at his death star all game anyway). I'm not using artillery so I can make room for the Vendetta's. I plan on housing my Platoon Command Squads in the Vendetta's to drop on objectives late in the game as they are ObSec. He's fielded similar lists to this before and I've always struggled. So I included krak grenades on my blobs for when they get stuck in combat. I'm hoping that I'll get off the take aim order and maybe be able to snipe his sorc to diminish his psychic phase (if he get's off invisibility I need sixes to hit, so may as well make those sixes that hit actually go where I want with precision shots). I didn't bring any pyskers because with the models I have, it wouldn't make a big enough difference to allow me better shots at denying invisibility. Figured more firepower would be just as effective. And I'm always going to save whatever dice I have to try and deny invisibility. Edit: Also I know that I don't have the best manoeuvrability as Guard, so I'm going to go for the outflanking warlord trait if I can. Just to get the Lord Commissar and his squads up a bit faster - and possibly to move my Russes up a little closer. I know someone was saying that you should have thirty man blobs as a rule, but I'm not as worried about the volume of firepower I'll be facing. More what will happen when I get caught up in CC or he hits me with a psychic scream. Two baleflamers don't worry me any more than two regular flame throwers would since I'm guard. So I think he'll probably be going for my flak missile squads or trying to vector strike my Vendettas and Russes. Sir Teabag fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Oct 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 18:13
|
|
|
Everybody is taking pyskers these days but nobody seems to take the cullexis. I'm thinking about taking one just for fun next weekend.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 18:53
|
|
|
A few things on that list: If your opponent is running a pretty hard list like that against you, there will be problems. Command squad, fine, the main issue is your plan for it - are there infantry units heavily equipped enough for it to be giving orders to? I didn't even give mine any weapons last time, as it is better off out of LoS. Why offer your opponent the warlord point? Lord Commissar, why are you taking him? His combat ability is negligible against an army like chaos, so a regular commissar gives your squad the same morale benefit for 25 pts. Infantry: Here is where I disagree with your list. What do you envision using krak grenades for? Because they seem limited use against this kind of opposition. Why flamers and grenade launchers? What you need is plasma, or to a lesser extent melta, to do wounds to high T targets. Autocannons are ok, consider lascannons as well. Vendettas are fine. Tanks - never take weapon upgrades on a leman russ or demolisher, because the turret weapon is ordnance they can only snap fire those hull weapons when firing the turret. Overall the ordnance ones are considered less useful, and this is certainly the case against the targets you are describing. Consider punishers or exterminators instead. Maybe a demolisher to double out his spawn. Do not run them in a squadron, you are giving up flexibility and exposing yourself more to enemy fire for no benefit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 19:00
|
|
|
LingcodKilla posted:Everybody is taking pyskers these days but nobody seems to take the cullexis. I'm thinking about taking one just for fun next weekend. The bugger is out of stock on the GW site! I have an eversor, just bought a Vindicare on ebay. Will but callidus and culexus as soon as the latter is available. I am very excited they made the assassins proper scary again and would love to take all 4 in an apocalypse game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
The best assassin model is the Olde Timey one with authentic ninja sandals, which is what I used as Marbo for a long time. Now it'll be a great Culexus!
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 19:07
|
|
|
Genghis Cohen posted:A few things on that list: Thanks man! Maybe I'll sub out the CCS lascanon for a MoO and hide him as much as possible? I figured I'd keep him by the 20 man squads with autocannons and missile launchers to issue orders to them. I'd equip them with plasma or melta if I had my plasma gunners assembled! I could just proxy them - I'll try building a list using proxies instead. I've just used Grenade launchers since 5th ed, and they've always been handy for me. The other thought I had (while trying to save points) was that it would only be four plasma guns, which is not going to be enough to cut through his spawn and force saves on his lord and/or sorcerer with invisibility. Did I mention I loving hate invisibility? Hahaha. The last 20 man squad with flame throwers was meant to just sneak the Lord Commissar back up the field and take out cultists and other objective holders. I figured it wouldn't be threatening enough to warrant a trip from his two most deadly units, but has enough wounds to stick around in a fight with some cultists. Would it be better to just roll them into the other 20 man squads and run two 30 man squads with plasma? I also thought I'd be able to use the krak greandes in combat against his spawn, instead of just flailing the butts of their rifles helplessly. I'm still learning 7th so I might be wrong here. I've just had incidents in the past where say a wraith knight charges me and all I can do is twiddle my thumbs for a round or two, so I thought that might be useful vs Bel'akor (not sure what his toughness is). My only worry is that if I'm using only two 30 man squads that I won't have enough flexibility to move around and hit multiple targets. Hadn't considered not squading my Russes - I usually have to to fit in the artillery I'm bringing! Thanks for the tip. I was thinking of brining an executioner, but if he gets invisibility off then it's useless against most of his list due to it's blast templates. I really like the autocannon Russ suggestion, thanks! I'll likely be playing against a DA list after this game, so I would like to have some flexibility in my list (maybe against Orks if I'm lucky!). I just happen to know what the Chaos player tends to bring. I was expecting to lose, but do you think my original list would even put up a good fight? I'm pretty terrible at this game and my usual goal is "don't get tabled"! So sorry in advance if some of my questions are really stupid. Edit: I've also got a Vindicare assassin I could bring, but when I play guard I generally like to have as many bodies on the table as possible and he seems quite expensive. I'm also sure he would have a massive bullseye on his head for Bel'akor to psychic scream at. Edit 2: How does this look? I would only be using my Battle Tanks as proxies for Exterminators, which makes me happy. code:Sir Teabag fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Oct 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 19:31
|
|
|
Ork troops selections seem pretty crap in this codex. What's the recommended setup to pay the troop tax? Mobs of 20+? 'Ard boyz in Trukks? gently caress it and take 60 points worth of grots?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 19:42
|
|
|
IG ideas posted:
Well, so you know what you need to kill - Belakor, Heldrakes, and fast moving high toughness stuff. A t5 or t6 model will need to be shot 1/2*1/6*1/3 = 36 times to take 1 wound. You have enough lasguns in your list that if they are all constantly firing the whole game with orders for extra shots they might eventually kill his Spawn/Lord squad, assuming it never gets into combat and no guardsmen die. They cost 600 points, so you're spending 600 points to do that - there are cheaper ways. Best role for your blobs is to hold him up with them + commissars, just tarpit him as much as you can. Sacrifice sergeants to challenges, keep the commissar alive and shoot the rest of him to bits. Grenade launchers are always terrible, I don't know why they're even an option. Heldrakes are really good and Vendettas are really good at killing them. I'd say you're right on the money with those, and make sure your vendettas come on a. after his Heldrakes b. in such a way that they can't fly through you or escape. Even with 3 twin linked lascannons each, your Vendettas aren't going to kill two AV 12 5+ invul HP regenerating monsters in a single turn. Do you have any more vendettas? If you know the deal is Invisibility then ordanance isn't your best bet - obviously battlecannons are great but like the previous poster said consider either the S10 for instant death or the shots for invisibility. His list counters yours in a specific way - he's going to be immune or resistant to most of your fire. Your job is to give him too many targets to kill, and focus on objectives/the scenario, and sniping important elements as you can.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 19:45
|
|
|
How were you planning on moving the 20 man flamer squad? 21 models don't really "sneak" anywhere, and if it's just to take out some cultists then I think you have enough long range fire power to do the job after the harder targets are dealt with. Maybe fold them into the other squads and boost their staying power, or use them and a priest as a super cheap conscript squad and run interference. 85 points for Fearless conscripts is much cheaper than the 190 points for two squads and a Lord Commissar.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
CyberLord XP posted:Ork troops selections seem pretty crap in this codex. What's the recommended setup to pay the troop tax? Mobs of 20+? 'Ard boyz in Trukks? gently caress it and take 60 points worth of grots? Big mobs of slugga boys or 'ard boys running up behind screening vehicles (battle wagons, bikes, whatever). I wouldn't put boys in trukks, trukks are made of tissue paper and a unit of 12 boys will flee if they lose almost any models. Grots are only good as objective holders. All advice may be ignored at will. Orks is orks, and they make bad lists work due to sheer luck and number of models; so do what you like really.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 19:50
|
|
|
Direwolf posted:Well, so you know what you need to kill - Belakor, Heldrakes, and fast moving high toughness stuff. Posted a modified list just above! So with two Leman Russ tanks, three blobs, a CCS I'll try and keep my Russes out of LoS and range of Oblits (I'm assuming he'll have Oblits - why wouldn't he?) and use the MoO to try and hit anything he hides from me. With my Vendettas on the board, and eventually disgorged PCSs, I'd have 11 targets. If I were to include Plasma Guns, I'm not sure what I would cut at this point. There's not much fat to trim other than the Vindicare. If I replaced him, I could throw in some heavy weapon squads (which will die to Heldrakes) or maybe Scout Sentinels? Edit: I'll stop posting lists now, god drat are Guard lists huge. But I'm really appreciating this advice! You're all beautiful hams! Squifferific posted:How were you planning on moving the 20 man flamer squad? 21 models don't really "sneak" anywhere, and if it's just to take out some cultists then I think you have enough long range fire power to do the job after the harder targets are dealt with. Maybe fold them into the other squads and boost their staying power, or use them and a priest as a super cheap conscript squad and run interference. 85 points for Fearless conscripts is much cheaper than the 190 points for two squads and a Lord Commissar. Mostly I was going to try and get the outflanking/infiltrating warlord trait then walk them on from the side of the board in his deployment zone. I like the priest + conscript idea. Maybe using real guardsmen with krak greandes is overkill for this idea. I could use the remaining points for an HW squad with heavy bolters for more shots at his invisible units/deamons. Sir Teabag fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Oct 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 19:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 16:22 |
|
|
Sir Teabag posted:Mostly I was going to try and get the outflanking/infiltrating warlord trait then walk them on from the side of the board in his deployment zone. I like the priest + conscript idea. Maybe using real guardsmen with krak greandes is overkill for this idea. I could use the remaining points for an HW squad with heavy bolters for more shots at his invisible units/deamons. Yeah, planning around a specific random warlord trait is very risky. It's a nice bonus, and sometimes it's actually useful, but the odds of getting the Outflank trait is...30%? With the reroll? Plus it means that your Warlord is running around with a target on his face and will give up an easy victory point when he eventually buys it. I love conscripts. Just don't expect them to do much beyond get in the way and die horribly, and they'll surprise you every time. First Rank Second Rank is very effective on them (once you buff their leadership) since everyone has a lasgun and will put out a silly number of shots. Things that reduce their BS or require snapshots only don't really effect them as badly as they do regular squads, since they can't shoot for poo poo anyway. The best part is your opponent's face when you deploy them in front of the Aegis line. Yes, that's intentional. Yes, they're marching towards the big mean alien things instead of hiding in cover. No, I'm not finished deploying yet, let me get the second box.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 20:42
|
|