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Surprisingly Dope
Jan 12, 2011

Lope burgs again
Meelo was annoying. Especially with the food thing. Hopefully next episode is better.

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theblackw0lf
Apr 15, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"
I don't mind them fixing Korra so quick. I just wish the cause of her being fixed made more sense. Maybe I'm just dim but I don't see what happened to make her all better now.

Deakul
Apr 2, 2012

PAM PA RAM

PAM PAM PARAAAAM!

Neo_Crimson posted:

Seriously, the kids weren't that bad. I found that one dumb guard obsessed with macaroons to be more obnoxious than Meelo.

Macaroons own tbh so I let that slide.

Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 2 years!

theblackw0lf posted:

I don't mind them fixing Korra so quick. I just wish the cause of her being fixed made more sense. Maybe I'm just dim but I don't see what happened to make her all better now.
This is what I've been saying. Toph did help Korra by at least pointing that she still had some mercury in her, but then she tells Korra she has to get over her PTSD and remove it herself. I guess Toph had no sedatives on her.

Genocyber
Jun 4, 2012

Baron Bifford posted:

This is what I've been saying. Toph did help Korra by at least pointing that she still had some mercury in her, but then she tells Korra she has to get over her PTSD and remove it herself. I guess Toph had no sedatives on her.

Because the actual problem wasn't the metal you dumb dumb.

Torquemadras
Jun 3, 2013

Neo_Crimson posted:

Seriously, the kids weren't that bad. I found that one dumb guard obsessed with macaroons to be more obnoxious than Meelo.

No. He was great. You're wrong and evil. :mad:


theblackw0lf posted:

I don't mind them fixing Korra so quick. I just wish the cause of her being fixed made more sense. Maybe I'm just dim but I don't see what happened to make her all better now.

I think the point was that Korra was still hanging on to her past battles, because they hurt her deeply (and personally). Because she couldn't overcome the pain and loss from those fights, she also couldn't purge the poison from her body. It's basically a metaphor becoming real. And since this is Avatar, the well-being of the body is directly linked to spirituality and whatnot - so obviously Korra couldn't become better until she overcame her past...

Or something. Short version: Korra found out why she couldn't let go of her trauma (doubt, balance, they had a point etc.), so she got the resolve to fix the metaphor poison. Wasn't that clear, really, but I think that's the message...

Deakul
Apr 2, 2012

PAM PA RAM

PAM PAM PARAAAAM!

I wouldn't even say that they fixed Korra that quick, she's been on this journey of self discovery for what 3 years?

theblackw0lf
Apr 15, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"

Torquemadras posted:

No. He was great. You're wrong and evil. :mad:


I think the point was that Korra was still hanging on to her past battles, because they hurt her deeply (and personally). Because she couldn't overcome the pain and loss from those fights, she also couldn't purge the poison from her body. It's basically a metaphor becoming real. And since this is Avatar, the well-being of the body is directly linked to spirituality and whatnot - so obviously Korra couldn't become better until she overcame her past...


Well yea I got that. I just don't see how she overcame her past.

Spergatory
Oct 28, 2012
Jesus Christ this thread hates fun. I hope to god none of you ever actually have kids. :psyduck:

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

hiddenriverninja posted:

The kids are know-it-alls, especially Jinora. And maybe it's just the way I grew up (I'm Asian), but I feel like they come off as rude when they address elders by just their name. Korra, whatever, but I feel like should have at least called Toph "Auntie Toph".

Kids should be as rude to "elders" as they like IMHO, preferably as rude as possible. The vast majority of "elders" are garbage.

Baron Bifford
May 24, 2006
Probation
Can't post for 2 years!
I expect kids to be as polite to adults as I have to be.

Read
Dec 21, 2010

hiddenriverninja posted:

The kids are know-it-alls, especially Jinora. And maybe it's just the way I grew up (I'm Asian), but I feel like they come off as rude when they address elders by just their name. Korra, whatever, but I feel like should have at least called Toph "Auntie Toph".

Yes, I know that would have would set up a shipping firestorm, and yes, I know the show is made by two white guys.

You probably shouldn't expect children in a fictional universe to ascribe to arbitrary cultural norms.

Sato
Apr 28, 2013

Spergatory posted:

Jesus Christ this thread hates fun. I hope to god none of you ever actually have kids. :psyduck:

There is nothing fun about Meelo. :colbert:

Jinora and Ikki are fine and normal and I have no problem with them (except Jinora at her most grating in the last two seasons).

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

hiddenriverninja posted:

The kids are know-it-alls, especially Jinora. And maybe it's just the way I grew up (I'm Asian), but I feel like they come off as rude when they address elders by just their name. Korra, whatever, but I feel like should have at least called Toph "Auntie Toph".

Yes, I know that would have would set up a shipping firestorm, and yes, I know the show is made by two white guys.

Did you have this same expectation of Aang and the rest of the Avatar protagonists? They're the same age.

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

ImpAtom posted:

Did you have this same expectation of Aang and the rest of the Avatar protagonists? They're the same age.

I wanna say that I did, but it's been a while since I saw TLA.

Slime
Jan 3, 2007

hiddenriverninja posted:

I wanna say that I did, but it's been a while since I saw TLA.

I doubt Toph gives a poo poo about respecting your elders now that she is one.

MatildaTheHun
Aug 31, 2011

here's the thing donovan, I'm always hungry
The kids weren't just poorly written, but badly voice acted, and not funny. They are a failure of characterization from their core to their visual design. The less time spent on them the better.

If I pause the episode 4 minutes in because it is too awkward to move on, somewhere, someone has failed.

Hauldren Collider
Dec 31, 2012
I watched through 3 seasons of little kids when I watched AtLA. I didn't really like Aang's voice actor but it didn't bother me that much because most of the time he wasn't insufferable and obnoxious. I can't stand the kids in this show because they're annoying, not because they act like kids.

Read
Dec 21, 2010

Is that the general opinion people have? I thought the kids were fine. They seemed like kids.

Genocyber
Jun 4, 2012

TheModernAmerican posted:

The kids weren't just poorly written, but badly voice acted, and not funny. They are a failure of characterization from their core to their visual design. The less time spent on them the better.

If I pause the episode 4 minutes in because it is too awkward to move on, somewhere, someone has failed.

You have dumb opinions please leave tia

Sato
Apr 28, 2013

Read posted:

Is that the general opinion people have? I thought the kids were fine. They seemed like kids.

I don't think they're a complete failure or anything, but I do think they're best in moderation. They can't sustain an episode on their own.

Jackard
Oct 28, 2007

We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It
Yea finally watched the episode and it was fine - nothing in it as grating as Bolin bird calls and :thejoke: sock.

Jackard fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Oct 24, 2014

ufarn
May 30, 2009
I think the show is too fond of jumping between characters as an excuse for avoiding developing the main character(s). I don't mind it in theory, but this is the last season, and the show still struggle with its main characters.

I could totally see an interesting arc around the kids, if only we had more seasons ahead of us, but we don't.

BrianWilly
Apr 24, 2007

There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand
The kids were fine, holy poo poo. Like, Meelo was annoying sometimes but :airquote:deal with it.:airquote:

Buncha crazy farts itt raging about cartoon children.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

hiddenriverninja posted:

I wanna say that I did, but it's been a while since I saw TLA.

The characters in TLA did not show reverence and deference to elders as a default. They did when it came to their masters or certain wise respected characters but there was a lot of casualness (or outright sassiness) from Katara, Sokka, Zuko and especially Toph. (Aang was pretty polite to most people.)

Empress Theonora
Feb 19, 2001

She was a sword glinting in the depths of night, a lance of light piercing the darkness. There would be no mistakes this time.

ImpAtom posted:

(Aang was pretty polite to most people.)

Flameo, Hotman.

Nude Bog Lurker
Jan 2, 2007
Fun Shoe
My favorite episode of Avatar was when Sokka farted on Zuko while Katara pestered Aang for twenty minutes.

dj_clawson
Jan 12, 2004

We are all sinners in the eyes of these popsicle sticks.

Deakul posted:

I wouldn't even say that they fixed Korra that quick, she's been on this journey of self discovery for what 3 years?

So like real life, Korra's recovery wasn't straight uphill. There were a lot of stops and starts and a lot of parts where she thought she was better but she'd really just hit a wall and she needed something to happen to her to get past it. I'm surprised they spent so long on it, what with the guy at the AV Club complaining about it taking too long and cutting down on the action. I thought it was a pretty dynamic depiction of PTSD.

PicklePants
May 8, 2007
Woo!
Didn't mind the kids too much.

Meelo seems to be going through the same thing that Sokka went through, when he and Katara left on their adventure with Aang. He's just young, obnoxious, and obsessed with being, A MAN. Without understanding. He's desperate to prove himself, after being sheltered for so long as one of the few airbenders left, and on his first real excursion out into the world, he's forced to go with his sisters. It's annoying, a small bit understandable, but still annoying.

Of course, with Sokka, Katara and Toph made him suffer for his stupidity. So, maybe Korra'll thump some sense into him, as she greatly respects Jinora. Or just seeing Korra and Kuvira battle, could be his wake up call, at least, I hope.

ImpAtom
May 24, 2007

Nude Bog Lurker posted:

My favorite episode of Avatar was when Sokka farted on Zuko while Katara pestered Aang for twenty minutes.

My favorite is the one where Toph burped a lot and picked gross stuff out of her feet!

Wildeyes
Nov 3, 2011
AV Club review is up. The writer shares my growing impatience for the lack of fight scenes this season. Seriously, we've gone from action-tastic season 3 to this?

This is where I say, for maybe the eighth time, that they should have just let the Red Lotus survive for one final season.

SpiderHyphenMan
Apr 1, 2010

by Fluffdaddy
If you want action scenes that are there for the sake of being action beats rather than serving a purpose in the story and having the weight of buildup and tension behind them, I suggest you look to a more episodic series.
That conversation between Su and Kuvira last episode was way more exciting to me then, say, the Kya vs. Zaheer fight last season (the one on the island, not the Air Temple).
Will agree that this episode felt like a backslide in quality, though. But the answer is definitely not "MORE ACTION!" The answer is tighter writing and, in the case of Meelo and Jinora, voice acting.

Also Raiko said at the end of Season 3 "Who knows how many Red Lotus members are still out there" which is right up there with "Toph went off in search of enlightenment and no one knows where she is" in terms of obvious foreshadowing. And since we got no mention of there being any success finding them over the past three years, I would be shocked if they don't come back.

SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Oct 24, 2014

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012




Oh, she got fixed already. Well drat, I guess that the mercury was pretty much the only problem. I was expecting her Avatar State version of herself to be a much bigger problem in the series but oh well.

Deakul
Apr 2, 2012

PAM PA RAM

PAM PAM PARAAAAM!

dj_clawson posted:

So like real life, Korra's recovery wasn't straight uphill. There were a lot of stops and starts and a lot of parts where she thought she was better but she'd really just hit a wall and she needed something to happen to her to get past it. I'm surprised they spent so long on it, what with the guy at the AV Club complaining about it taking too long and cutting down on the action. I thought it was a pretty dynamic depiction of PTSD.

Yeah, I've been loving this season.
Especially how relatively low key it's been, it's just the pieces getting put into position for poo poo to hit the fan.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute

Sato posted:

I hope so too, though you're forgetting Hiroshi, who has been confirmed for this season

I'm assuming both he and Zaheer will return, along with somebody associated with season 2's plot (Varrik I guess?) and Korra will have a confrontation with an artifact of each of the previous villain plotlines. Each of them can represent how Kuvira stands at the opposite extreme of each of the previous villain's agendas: threatening equality with her conquest, the spirit/human balance with her abuse of spirits for technology, and freedom via fascism.

Jackard
Oct 28, 2007

We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It
Sounds like poo poo hits the fan next episode - Kuvira attacks Zaofu? Going by the dialogue in this one and the last.

SpiderHyphenMan
Apr 1, 2010

by Fluffdaddy

RareAcumen posted:

Oh, she got fixed already. Well drat, I guess that the mercury was pretty much the only problem. I was expecting her Avatar State version of herself to be a much bigger problem in the series but oh well.
It haunted her around the world for six months.

During the last thread when people were talking about how Korra was so much weaker than Aang since she had so much trouble taking out Zaheer even in the Avatar State, I said this:

I posted:

I think you vastly underestimate the advantage that not being confined by gravity gives you in a fight with projectiles. And there's a deeper, thematic level that a lot of people are ignoring here.

The Aang vs. Ozai fight is, in the first half, a little boy against a towering human inferno, who struggles to survive while refusing to land a killing blow, despite getting the opportunity. In the second half, we see the souls and powers of a hundred men and women embodied in this twelve year old boy, as they prepare to use his body to enact divine vengeance. The tension comes from whether or not Aang will regain control in time, which he does with no time to spare. It is only the fact that is will is strong enough to overcome 100 generations of righteous fury that he is able to take Ozai's bending. This is what the battle is about : the ultimate test of Aang's soul. It wasn't about the bending, it was about the characters.

The same is true of Korra fighting Zaheer. Korra, unlike Aang, does not have the past lives controlling her. She is Korra, chasing down the man she believes to have murdered her father. She is driven by rage alone, her style the exact opposite of Aang's before he enters the Avatar State. She is prepared to kill. Her complete lack of inner-peace, caused by the poisoning of her body and her soul, means that she cannot win this fight. Zaheer, however, has detached himself from the earth, literally and figuratively. He is nigh-untouchable, physically and spiritually. It is only a tornado, formed by collective will of the New Air Nation, led by Jinora, that brings him down. It is only that embodiment of what is wrong with Zaheer's philosophy, the irrefutable fact that leadership and teamwork are essential to success, that defeats him, both in battle and philosophically. That is the point of the scene. Not whether or not Korra is stronger than Aang, but rather whether or not many on the ground are greater than One Who Has Ascended.

Both battles are about souls and ideals and what victory actually is beyond beating the other guy in a fight. This shared emotional core is why the visual similarities between the two battles feel right and earned, rather than cheap and desperate like, for example a dozen of the scenes in the Star Wars prequels that mirror scenes from the Original Trilogy on the most superficial level.
Similarly, saying "oh I guess it was just a bunch of metal that was the problem LOOKS LIKE THE WRITERS hosed UP CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT ONCE AGAIN" completely ignores that the poison functions on a narrative level as poison to her soul. It is, literally and metaphorically, a reminder of the trauma she has suffered that has thrown her out of balance. Even as soon as it enters her body the poison serves this function, causing her to hallucinate all of her past enemies. And the reason her trauma has thrown her out of balance is because she hasn't learned from her enemies. She hasn't understood why these things have happened to her. In "Korra Alone" all she says about what Zaheer did to her is "A crazy man poisoned me." And as long as Korra sees Amon, Unalaq, and Zaheer as random crazy people with no real motive except to hurt her, she will always be afraid. That poison will always be inside her. In Korra's hallucination in the Red Lotus cave, she links all her foes by the common thread of them wanting to destroy the Avatar as part of their vision for a new world (something they share with Sozin.) Toph helps her see the other side of this. That all her enemies are linked by being people with positive ideals, who have been thrown horribly out of balance. And then Toph gives her a lesson that a lot of people were hoping to see in Book 1: the very true, very hard to accept lesson that bad people sometimes have good ideals at the core of what they do, and you should try to learn from them even when they hurt you. And that is what Korra needed to hear. That's what allows her to release the fear that's been poisoning her for three years. All this time she's been afraid of the very real possibility (really it's an inevitability) that returning to being the Avatar means sooner or later she's going to come into conflict with another fanatic. But now it will be different. Rather than another bullet point in a long list of traumas, she will face the challenge not as an existential threat, but as an opportunity for further growth so she can help shape the world. When she inevitably faces off against Kuvira, she will not be running away in terror, she will not be a blue giant, she will not be a mindless embodiment of wrath and pain. She will be Korra, standing against someone not unlike herself. And rather than being terrified by the similarities of their ideals, she will use that as her greatest strength, and shall, being balanced, prevail over Kuvira, who is out of balance.

It's gonna be legendary.

hiddenriverninja
May 10, 2013

life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way


Good post.

I'm excited for Korra to get her Avatar on.

Torquemadras
Jun 3, 2013

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

It's gonna be legendary.

Y'know, just gonna throw this out there, but I think you make pretty good posts. Keep doin' that.

So, who else hopes for another giant collaborative airbending effort to take down this season's big bad, only this time with Meelo and fartbending?

Nobody?

I'm sorry

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Gnome de plume
Sep 5, 2006

Hell.
Fucking.
Yes.
If Toph likes Meelo, not liking Meelo is the wrong path.

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