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Her not at her peak is understandable, to be honest. She had some pretty neat fights through-out the series but her still suffering the effects of her shell shock after just being healed is pretty legit. I'm just kind of bummed that she doesn't really have much agency over her actions and really hasn't since Amon set his plans in motion in season 1. She can't fight at her peak because she is poisoned, or drugged, or bloodbended or something and she can't carve her own path because of world/friend-threatening villain coxes/demands her to do their bidding. So she comes off as a lesser protagonist because it seems like she can't do anything right or never takes the initiative or sets her own goals. It feels like they wanted a prodigy bender as an avatar, but who is also aggressive and brash, but realized half-way through production that if they did that the fights would be extremely one-sided so they threw in all these cheap handicaps to limit her ability. I think it would have been more effective for her character, at least early on in the series, if she fought at the best of her abilities against opponents and lost simply because they were better benders or were more clever at exploiting her aggressive fighting style. Jimbot fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 20:36
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blurry! posted:Gotta say that I really don't buy korra being a prodigy outside of her early development. Either that, or the definition of "mastering" the elements has slid quite a bit since the 100 Year War. Korra is supposed to be some amazing fighter but she never really does much besides splash around or toss chunks of dirt in between small tongues of flame. I know it's in character but watching this "prodigy" has been dull throughout the series. Azula was a prodigy too; you never knew what crazy move she was going to invent on the spot. Korra has all for elements going for her. Why does the writing insist on the same boring moves all the time? Kuvira acting smug? Blast some air from below her, shoot her into the air and body slam that rear end into the dirt. Throw a wall of flame at her and set your arena on fire. When she's dodging that change her landing point to sand. I think she is considered a "prodigy" for being able to control the elements at such a young age, and that her "mastery" is a reference to the degree of control she has rather than her level of creativity (which is barely there). This is even consistent with TLA's definition of mastery, if you think about it: once Katara was done training with Pakku, she had reached a level of waterbending where if she could think of a technique, she could bring it to fruition. Doesn't mean a thing if you can't actually come up with any new moves, though. And I mean, hey, airbending is supposed to be all about avoidance and redirection, but Korra's been doing a pretty darn good job of using it the same way she uses everything else (i.e. punching dudes).
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Nov 8, 2014 20:47
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I'm hoping we'll finally have a fight where korra can just go all out without some bullshit handicapping her. I like the approach they've taken with her PTSD, and I can understand her not being ready to fight. But this is the last we'll see of korra, so I want her to go out with a bang and wipe the floor as the avatar, like aang did to ozai.
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Nov 8, 2014 20:48
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VaultAggie posted:I'm hoping we'll finally have a fight where korra can just go all out without some bullshit handicapping her. I like the approach they've taken with her PTSD, and I can understand her not being ready to fight. But this is the last we'll see of korra, so I want her to go out with a bang and wipe the floor as the avatar, like aang did to ozai. Didn't Aang only do that once a writing contrivance put him in the avatar state? E: I mean granted he did have a clean shot to kill Ozai without it but
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Nov 8, 2014 20:51
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Korra being functionally shite at fighting isn't in itself a bad thing but what gets me is its all Korra is supposed to be good at. It's how they designed her from the start. She ranges from "sucks" to mediocre at diplomacy, politics, relationships, philosophy, spirituality, no interest in the arts, cooking, driving, the list goes on. so if they're gonna pour all her points into fighting, it feels cheap to me that she routinely gets routed through out the series. Everyone can dodge or out-maneuver her attacks, pull out a special move to neutralize her, or escape by a writing conceit/contrivance. I feel they should have everyone avoid fighting her in the first place, taking hostages to get her to stand down, or actually getting steam rolled. If you want to have a character who's defined by martial prowess be convincing, ya gotta let that character shine on their home turf. That way, it's actually shocking when something comes outta left field. Ending every fight with your Combat Monster being defeated in combat is lazy, imo. If she really is so good, Korra on her worst day should give every other fighter a run for their money. Kuvira should have taken more hits, no doubt.
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Nov 8, 2014 20:59
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Big Anime Fan Here posted:It's less interesting to watch Korra because she can't do a slam dunk  I beg to differ 
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Nov 8, 2014 21:05
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I want Korra to bloodbend Kuvira into a classic 'stop hitting yourself' routine.
PiedPiper fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Nov 8, 2014 |
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Nov 8, 2014 21:28
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blurry! posted:If she really is so good, Korra on her worst day should give every other fighter a run for their money. Kuvira should have taken more hits, no doubt. That's why I hope for a villain-of-the-week episode so badly. She's down, but she's still Korra! Give us some lackey to beat up! The first series was of course mostly build on this format, but with Korra, the stand-alone episodes have consistently been some of the best - just remember the episode of S3 that just had the new Air Nation doing stuff. Just, like... suddenly have the cast discover the bandits who stole from the airbenders in ep01 are nearby, so Korra gets to beat up twinblade dude (who's also a metalbender so that we get sweet swordbending ), and coincidentally it's revealed they worked for Kuvira all along. Almost stand-alone episode, and finally some fights to win.You're definitely right, though. The fight was a little too one-sided. I wrote it earlier - I think the series is too much on the nose about how much Korra sucks. I'm gonna be so angry if we don't get swordbending
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Nov 8, 2014 21:47
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You know it's a bad sign when the show itself is hating on Korra.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:02
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It would also be easier to go like "Well, she is young and growing up so things are hard as well" but then the first series is about a kid who is 12 and the last survivor of a genocide and he was much better at fighting.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:19
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Big Anime Fan Here posted:It would also be easier to go like "Well, she is young and growing up so things are hard as well" but then the first series is about a kid who is 12 and the last survivor of a genocide and he was much better at fighting. And he even hated fighting!
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Nov 8, 2014 22:23
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Big Anime Fan Here posted:I wish she was at least good at fighting... I was looking forward to some fighting
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Nov 8, 2014 22:24
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SparkPeople posted:I love how they have the bending styles broken down by each element, and then there's Toph. That's partly because all info from a season 2 teaser. I wish they'd do another one, because I'm pretty sure they've introduced a few more signature martial arts styles since then; metalbenders, Zaheer, and Tonraq's loving blade-bending, for a start.
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Nov 8, 2014 23:54
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I'm still wondering if Ghazan using his elbows so often meant something as far as real life inspiration is concerned...
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Nov 9, 2014 00:29
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I think we're seeing some fundamental issues with the writing emerge here. I think the creators designed Korra as a character before they really asked how'd she fit into the story they wanted to tell. They created a fighter, brash and stubborn in temperament. She's a prodigiously talented bender and combatant. Moreover, she loves to fight. Her entire personality revolves around her ability to kick rear end. There's plenty of ways to make this character type interesting. First and foremost, you present challenges and obstacles that the character's natural talents do not solve, putting them outside their comfort zone. We then watch as the character sinks or swims, and what they learn (or don't learn) from the experience. This uncertainty is called dramatic tension. Take Toph, for instance. She's basically just like Korra. Strong, independent, brash and stubborn, and above all, incredibly powerful and eager to fight. Toph's challenges come from conflicting expectations with those around her, like her parents and Katara. She can't just bend those problems away, and so we find how she deals with them interesting. The issue we see with Korra is both eager and talented in violence, yet the problems she's given to solve by the writers could in fact be solved by fighting. Alternative solutions aren't really presented or explored. So there's the rub. When you design a character that's powerful/talented by Avatar standards being presented with problems that could be solved or averted through the use of the Avatar power set, you quickly run out of dramatic tension. So you have to shoehorn some in, or circumvent and undermine your own character's strengths over and over. Give every mook on the street his own pound of kryptonite. The Equalists had strangely powerful abilities to dodge, and Korra, despite being a master bender, just couldn't figure out how to adapt to their mobility. Tarrlok was rightfully going to get his poo poo pushed in by Korra, and pulled a magic ability that didn't even jive well with the show's established poo poo. Amon had both supernatural dodgey-powers and magic-super-bloodbending. Unulaq challenged Korra in a straight, one-on-one fight with a fully realized Korra at the height of her powers, with full access to the Avatar state, and still trounced her despite the fact he was 3 bending disciplines and a thousand lifetimes short of her (in addition to Korra being younger and having trained her entire life as a brawler). With Zaheer and Kuvira, the writers have to put further shackles on the one avenue of ability their own character has. The true dramatic tension of past Avatars, like Aang and Roku, is that they purposefully held back. Internal, organically written forces kept them from simply over-powering and dominating their enemies. If you want to flip the script there and show how the eager use of power has negative results, then own it. Have Korra dominate her enemies, but explore how it doesn't solve her problems, and in some cases makes things worse. Korra could steamroll Amon, but is seen as a bully by his supporters. Kuvira could harp on the overreach of the Avatar into domestic matters. That sorta stuff.
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Nov 9, 2014 00:53
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From what we've seen of past Avatars, I'm seeing a trend of "Generals fighting the last war". Korra would have trounced Ozai before she hit puberty, Aang being perceptive as he was would have stayed close with his friend and taken measures to curb their aggression... Koshi? Well poo poo, she was a reaction to Kuruks inaction and, while ultimately effective, proved too harsh leading to Roku having a lenient streak that doomed him and the world to a hundred years of strife. Korra, not having her past lives, is at something of a disadvantage, but it's also a clean slate. But yeah given the short length of the season we don't have enough time to explore that beating the poo poo out of the figureheads doesn't resolve the core issue so we get a 30 second handwave at the start of season 2 and now the writers play Deus Ex Handicap from then on in to compensate. Rougey fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Nov 9, 2014 |
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Nov 9, 2014 01:12
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blurry! posted:I think we're seeing some fundamental issues with the writing emerge here. You're absolutely dead on, and I can think of lots of fascinating ways this could have panned out. Have Amon get captured halfway through Book 1 (courtesy of some cool battles), only to have his ideology persist, with Korra watching riots burn the city to the ground. Have Korra bust into Tarrlok's office (having had some cool battles with his security team) and lay out his master plan...only to have Tarrlok laugh and effortlessly push bills through the City Council that give him unrivaled emergency powers, no battles required. I've watched this far because we have had something kind of like this, but at the end of the day Korra keeps getting depowered like crazy and having any personal or emotional growth reset in favor of punchy punchy. She undoubtedly being emotionally challenged now, but we've been here before in Season 1 (the 1-on-1 showdown with Amon).
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Nov 9, 2014 01:12
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blurry! posted:Korra being functionally shite at fighting isn't in itself a bad thing but what gets me is its all Korra is supposed to be good at. It's how they designed her from the start. She ranges from "sucks" to mediocre at diplomacy, politics, relationships, philosophy, spirituality, no interest in the arts, cooking, driving, the list goes on. so if they're gonna pour all her points into fighting, it feels cheap to me that she routinely gets routed through out the series. Everyone can dodge or out-maneuver her attacks, pull out a special move to neutralize her, or escape by a writing conceit/contrivance. I feel they should have everyone avoid fighting her in the first place, taking hostages to get her to stand down, or actually getting steam rolled. If you want to have a character who's defined by martial prowess be convincing, ya gotta let that character shine on their home turf. That way, it's actually shocking when something comes outta left field. Ending every fight with your Combat Monster being defeated in combat is lazy, imo. See, to me that's part of Korra's character development. She defined herself as a fighter, but she was taught the old traditional styles of bending in a controlled environment, with everyone she came into contact with handpicked by a bunch of old people. Of course she's going to appear to be an incredible fighter, to herself and others. She came out of the compound and there's all these unusual benders and situations she has to adjust to, and Korra tends to rely on brute force so she's not a particularly quick and innovative fighter. She'd done great against more traditional benders (and for the most part still did through the series--look at all those mooks she defeated), but since bending has changed and there's so many more variations she doesn't do as well and that destroys her self-esteem--if she's not a fighter, who is she? Besides, couldn't it be argued that people being willing to challenge Korra fits in with the theme of the series as a whole, which is that people are starting to question the authority and purpose of the Avatar? People are starting to try their luck against her, which we didn't see as much in Aang's time. And for the most part the main villains have avoided fighting her directly, as well as the other stuff you mention. Amon avoided going after her until the last episode--he refused to fight her one-on-one in episode four, cautioned his forces not to underestimate her in Tarrlok's hideaway, for the most part avoided her until he couldn't personally justify it, and captured Tenzin and his kids. Unalaq didn't fight Korra until she was without her bending in the spirit world. He took Jinora hostage to get her to do what he wanted. He didn't go full-out until he merged with Vaatu and was her equal in power. The Red Lotus didn't ever battle her one-on-one as a whole (the four of them). They made attempts to disable and capture her, took an entire nation hostage to ultimately gain custody of her, and put platinum chains on her and poisoned her when they actually had her. Kuvira took her on but that's a part of her character and role--she's supposed to be a personal challenge to Korra, as the Avatar and as a person. Despite this, she took Su and her twin sons hostage as well. I agree that her losing time after time can be tedious from episode to episode, but when I watch the series as a whole I can generally see why it was done. I don't really have many issues.
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Nov 9, 2014 01:46
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Rougey posted:Korra would have trounced Ozai before she hit puberty Firelord Ozai would have hosed Korra up beyond repair
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Nov 9, 2014 01:58
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Big Anime Fan Here posted:Firelord Ozai would have hosed Korra up beyond repair Because most definitely yes if the latter
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Nov 9, 2014 02:00
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JT Jag posted:Are we talking every-day Ozai or Sozen's Comet Ozai is rocket boots a non comet power for non-Avatars? edit: never mind I remember iroh 2
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Nov 9, 2014 02:06
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Big Anime Fan Here posted:Firelord Ozai would have hosed Korra up beyond repair On one hand, Ozai was at that point quite possibly the most powerful firebender in the entire world. On the other hand, Korra would've shot loving lightning at the dude the moment he stood shirtless on a blimp
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Nov 9, 2014 02:08
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hiddenriverninja posted:is rocket boots a non comet power for non-Avatars? And Azula. 
thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Nov 9, 2014 |
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Nov 9, 2014 02:09
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hiddenriverninja posted:is rocket boots a non comet power for non-Avatars?
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Nov 9, 2014 02:11
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Y'all realize that Korra would be just as empowered by the comet as Ozai, yeah? I don't know if she would've beaten him outright, but she's fully capable of taking him on if need be.
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Nov 9, 2014 02:34
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Oh yah "fully empowered Korra" the so good fighter. Korra... so bad of Avatar: 1. Can't even win at pro sports of kung fu even with 1,000 years of training 2. Permanently lost connection to all past lives... lmao... no other Avatar in history is this bad 3. Couldn't close the portal and now hell and earth coexist lmao 4. Has like 20 team mates including psychic little girl... billionaire heiress inventor... policeman... whole family of air benders... fucks everything up. Ang has 4 friends and a yak that flies, saves the day just fine 5. Only tries diplomacy at soooo stupid time DUMBASS 6. Gets her rear end kicked in regular earth bender foxy boxing match
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Nov 9, 2014 03:00
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Torquemadras posted:On the other hand, Korra would've shot loving lightning at the dude the moment he stood shirtless on a blimp I don't think we've ever seen Korra do this (because we need some reason to keep Mako around) but shes always been good with fire and the comet would have helped
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Nov 9, 2014 03:04
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Jackard posted:I don't think we've ever seen Korra do this (because we need some reason to keep Mako around) but shes always been good with fire and the comet would have helped He's saying she would have immediately killed him if given the opportunity, not that she can redirect lightning. I don't agree, but she's certainly not constrained by a moral compunction against killing like Aang was.
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Nov 9, 2014 03:06
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Sato posted:See, to me that's part of Korra's character development. She defined herself as a fighter, but she was taught the old traditional styles of bending in a controlled environment, with everyone she came into contact with handpicked by a bunch of old people. Of course she's going to appear to be an incredible fighter, to herself and others. She came out of the compound and there's all these unusual benders and situations she has to adjust to, and Korra tends to rely on brute force so she's not a particularly quick and innovative fighter. She'd done great against more traditional benders (and for the most part still did through the series--look at all those mooks she defeated), but since bending has changed and there's so many more variations she doesn't do as well and that destroys her self-esteem--if she's not a fighter, who is she? I don't know if Kuvira had plans for the Avatar state, but she really hosed Korra up until that point because she was a more intelligent fighter who had obviously prepped for the battle. Honestly, Korra just randomly shot bolts of elements at her. Everyone knows that doesn't work, especially if you open with a fireball, as no one ever seems to get burned by one of those. When Roku fought Sozen, he disappeared at first and then got the jump on Sozen using the elements Ozen didn't have access to. His pulling out the Avatar state was just really to make a point about his authority. Korra could have used the environment around her to her advantage. Basically, she could have done anything but what she actually did and it would have been more effective.
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Nov 9, 2014 03:41
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How would Aang have dealt with Kuvira This is a serious question
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Nov 9, 2014 04:25
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ROSS MY SALAD posted:How would Aang have dealt with Kuvira The same way every other person handled Korra. Step outta the way the push her into the mud.
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Nov 9, 2014 04:27
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If he can fight off psychic blood bending in the avatar state then I don't think metal wrist straps are a big deal. Unless you mean child Aang in which case who knows, any proficient metal bender woulda whupped him.
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Nov 9, 2014 04:28
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ROSS MY SALAD posted:How would Aang have dealt with Kuvira Aang's Anti Earth Tyrant Strategy: 1. Have the opportunity to redirect a metal stake fired by the tyrant back lethally, choose to shoot it into the ground instead 2. Get the avatar state back after having previously lost it when knocked by the aforementioned tyrant into a conveniently placed block of ice 3. Remove bending
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Nov 9, 2014 04:31
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blurry! posted:The same way every other person handled Korra. Step outta the way the push her into the mud. Yeah probably that. He would never attack first anyway.
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Nov 9, 2014 04:31
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Man all she had to do was force choke Kuvira in front of her entire army
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Nov 9, 2014 04:37
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dj_clawson posted:I don't know if Kuvira had plans for the Avatar state, but she really hosed Korra up until that point because she was a more intelligent fighter who had obviously prepped for the battle. It actually just occurred to me that this was probably a major reason she specifically recruited Bolin. She knew the Avatar would be back eventually and knew that Bolin was writing to her so had an idea of her recovery schedule. He was intimately familiar with her bending style and weaknesses and isn't exactly discreet or immune to flattery. Add that to his lavabending, ties to the Air Nomads through Opal, the fact that Su respected him, and his ability to make friends and charm people easily and he was perfect for her plans. As far as I know Korra has never actually seen Kuvira battle--she was either knocked out or otherwise occupied whenever we saw Kuvira fight last season. She did what she always does with a new opponent, which is try to overwhelm them with force. ROSS MY SALAD posted:How would Aang have dealt with Kuvira Energybending. Either that or channel Kyoshi again.
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Nov 9, 2014 04:53
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Sato posted:Stuff Some good points, and that's certainly one way to look at it. I have some reservations, though. S1's pacing issues, abrupt resolutions and reveals leads me to believe the 12 episode limit snuck up on them somehow. Like they hardly planned out the initial season, much less a legitimate through-line for all four. Misstep or not, it does get tedious.
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Nov 9, 2014 05:35
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blurry! posted:I have some reservations, though. S1's pacing issues, abrupt resolutions and reveals leads me to believe the 12 episode limit snuck up on them somehow. Oh, I agree with you there. They were trying to cram too much in and failed to bring it all together, though I think the first ten episodes of the season were great. Seasons 2 through 4 have been a lot more unified and have had themes carry over, which I think was a mixture of having more episodes to breathe and play around with and inviting more writers in to broaden the idea pool. I'd love to see more Hiroshi and maybe some former Equalists/sympathizers like that loudspeaker protester to bring more links to season 1. Maybe some former Equalists, disillusioned by Amon's reveal, joined the Red Lotus? Or maybe bring the Lieutenant back as a punching bag--he wasn't beaten up enough in his original appearances and we were discussing how Korra needed small victories to get her groove back.
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Nov 9, 2014 05:56
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Frankly just having Korra hit her opponent with something would be nice. I understand the symbolism, just like I understood the symbolism in her fight with Zaheer. That doesn't make it any less boring when the whole fight is just Korra slamming into the ground over and over after missing over and over and she isn't allowed to even put on the appearance of competing with her opponents until the very last fight of the very last episode. As bad a villain Amon was to fight at least Season 1 got to show Korra do something against the other supporting villains. It's weird that I'm interested in basically everything except seeing Korra fight, is all. Seeing the Avatar fight should not be the equivalent of the alien of the week in Star Trek disabling Worf to prove how badass they are, final second PTSD episodes aside. You can have the protagonist lose a fight, keep your theme and narrative intact, and still making it interesting to watch.
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Nov 9, 2014 06:24
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Granted this is in an European Classical or Romantic style, Meelo could start a whole new artistic renaissance in the Avatar universe.
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Nov 9, 2014 06:46
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