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Ddraig posted:In Far Cry 2 you weren't the white god come to save the ignorant savages from a threat they couldn't possibly best on their own, you were a literal merc who was sent into a very unstable regime and basically given a mission to do. God is white though, sorry you had to find out this way
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Nov 9, 2014 19:29
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pengun101 posted:But, he seems capable enough and it looks like he know what pissed people off about 3. http://www.gamespot.com/articles/how-far-cry-3s-dude-bro-led-to-changes-in-far-cry-/1100-6421181/ "Hunting animals is core to the Far Cry games" "At this point, a man behind us playing the Far Cry 4 E3 demo shoots an elephant in the head. Kershner buries his face in his hands" "The elephant incident, although briefly terrifying"  what the hell is wrong with people. I'm going to blow the gently caress outta elephants and crash jeeps into them and ride them off cliffs cause that sounds fun as all get out.
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Nov 9, 2014 19:39
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The other weird thing is that hunting animals has only really been "core" to one of the three main (currently) released Far Cry games, and none of the godawful periphery Far Cry games (like "Instincts", etc.)
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Nov 9, 2014 19:52
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I mean, in fairness, I was all about how cool the hunting was gonna be in Black Flag, and then I'm playing the game and throwing giant spears into a whale as it tries desperately to run away, blood running over its body and turning the water red as it struggles to survive, and at that point I wasn't really having as much fun anymore. Elephants are cool and I can imagine that shooting one in the face might make me feel a little bad.
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Nov 9, 2014 19:54
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Homefront was a really good story imo, and there was some  stuff they threw into that game to drive home the scale of North Korean oppression that gave it a unique vibe, so I'm looking forward to seeing what happens in FC4.
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Nov 9, 2014 19:56
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:The other weird thing is that hunting animals has only really been "core" to one of the three main (currently) released Far Cry games, and none of the godawful periphery Far Cry games (like "Instincts", etc.) Yeah hunting has only been an active part of Far Cry 3. Animals existed in other games, but they were purely background and mostly kept out of your way unless you happened to crash into one.
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Nov 9, 2014 19:57
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Crappy Jack posted:Elephants are cool and I can imagine that shooting one in the face might make me feel a little bad. That's why you throw a bunch of C4 on them.
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Nov 9, 2014 19:57
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:That's why you throw a bunch of C4 on them. If I launch them into space, it's not killing them, it's turning them into astronauts!
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Nov 9, 2014 20:05
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Xander77 posted:... I'd actually be more interested in hearing how Far Cry 2 is racist.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:06
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Okay so you have a grappling hook and a wingsuit, but can you wingsuit somewhere, go out of wingsuit and just hook onto a random cliff face and swing upwards, then get back to wingsuiting? I'm asking because otherwise, what's the point?
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Nov 9, 2014 20:06
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Great Joe posted:Okay so you have a grappling hook and a wingsuit, but can you wingsuit somewhere, go out of wingsuit and just hook onto a random cliff face and swing upwards, then get back to wingsuiting? This just sounds like Just Cause 2 to me. Which is good, because every game should be compared to Just Cause 2.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:08
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I never tried it in FC3, but can you dive into someone with the wingsuit and tackle them to death? Whether or not this will also kill me is irrelevant.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:10
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Volkerball posted:Homefront was a really good story imo, and there was some
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Nov 9, 2014 20:14
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Xander77 posted:Press F to dive into an elephant mass graveyard? As you fly with bad guy after the part in the trailer, there will be soldiers lining up elephants against the wall and executing them brutally, then baby elephant runs up and nudges the dead bodies.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:16
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Volkerball posted:I don't think I like Buck.  You're not supposed to.I laughed when he acted like he didn't know you're friend's name, then was like "I thought his name was *Makes screaming noise into his hand*" Didn't feel good about it, but it happened.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:19
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:I'd actually be more interested in hearing how Far Cry 2 is racist. If I am not mistaken, Far Cry 2 was a white savior narrative too, it was just that you aren't the savior. The Jackal was. The game pretty much encourages you to gently caress up a country and make a mess of it and then at the last moment, NOPE, you have to save these people now.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:34
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Like I said before, that storyline just writes itself, because it's so common in the last few hundred years of fiction. It takes serious effort to NOT write it if you're writing an adventure story set in an exotic (from a Western perspective) place. It appears that in 4, just maybe, they actually did make that effort.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:38
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Samurai Sanders posted:Like I said before, that storyline just writes itself, because it's so common in the last few hundred years of fiction. It takes serious effort to NOT write it if you're writing an adventure story set in an exotic (from a Western perspective) place. But it was simple, all they had to do was make you the greedy gently caress that you are and actually murder The Jackal completing the job. In actuality, you shouldn't give a gently caress about the people whose country you helped gently caress up.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:41
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Samurai Sanders posted:Like I said before, that storyline just writes itself, because it's so common in the last few hundred years of fiction. It takes serious effort to NOT write it if you're writing an adventure story set in an exotic (from a Western perspective) place. I think it's more that the game is designed for the main character to be Rambo, and it based its characters around the demographic who would be playing it. Sure, they could've had the main character be some Rakyat fighter who was born on the island and changed the story to fit, but I don't blame them for not doing that. American characters are just the standard because games are largely played by Americans. That's why you've got foreign countries in the AC series where everyone speaks flawless English, etc. I don't think if Jason Brody was a black American, and all his friends on the trip with him were black, that the flaws in the story would have changed at all.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:45
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Volkerball posted:I think it's more that the game is designed for the main character to be Rambo, and it based its characters around the demographic who would be playing it. Sure, they could've had the main character be some Rakyat fighter who was born on the island and changed the story to fit, but I don't blame them for not doing that. American characters are just the standard because games are largely played by Americans. That's why you've got foreign countries in the AC series where everyone speaks flawless English, etc. I don't think if Jason Brody was a black American, and all his friends on the trip with him were black, that the flaws in the story would have changed at all. I think people would have found that equally as 'problematic'. "Oh, so cut off from white society, the black man 'goes native' and becomes a mass-murderer? This is just perpetuating stereotypes about black men and look at his friends, they're all just social constructs of blackness!"
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Nov 9, 2014 20:48
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AxeManiac posted:"Hunting animals is core to the Far Cry games" loving seconded. And Steam gallery is gonna be filled with retarded-assed elephant glitches
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Nov 9, 2014 20:49
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Volkerball posted:I think it's more that the game is designed for the main character to be Rambo, and it based its characters around the demographic who would be playing it. Sure, they could've had the main character be some Rakyat fighter who was born on the island and changed the story to fit, but I don't blame them for not doing that. American characters are just the standard because games are largely played by Americans. That's why you've got foreign countries in the AC series where everyone speaks flawless English, etc. I don't think if Jason Brody was a black American, and all his friends on the trip with him were black, that the flaws in the story would have changed at all. ...in reality, they may be right, and 4 might not sell as much as 3 because the player character isn't white.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:51
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BottledBodhisvata posted:I think people would have found that equally as 'problematic'. "Oh, so cut off from white society, the black man 'goes native' and becomes a mass-murderer? This is just perpetuating stereotypes about black men and look at his friends, they're all just social constructs of blackness!" Agreed. It seems they've circumvented the whole thing altogether by having the main character in this one be native to Kyrat, despite living in exile in the US for basically his whole life. So he'll be easy to relate with for American players, while also getting in touch with his roots and his home culture rather than something foreign.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:51
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Crappy Jack posted:This just sounds like Just Cause 2 to me.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:53
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, I know exactly why the protagonist is white, and it's always depressing to me when writers think that their audience can't identify with characters unless they are the same race/gender/whatever as themselves. Its a weird argument to me because it just says that people can put themselves in the head of a loving Lombax but not someone from another country. Then people have the nerve to say that they are "colorblind"
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Nov 9, 2014 20:54
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blackguy32 posted:Its a weird argument to me because it just says that people can put themselves in the head of a loving Lombax but not someone from another country. Then people have the nerve to say that they are "colorblind" I attribute that to people not having any preconceived ideas about a made-up alien race, while they do about central Asians or whoever.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:56
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Alright, I'm just gonna assume you can't use the grappling hook except if you're standing, which is the worst possible way to handle a grappling hook ever (looking at you, lost planet). So, game's just gonna be more of the same.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:58
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In the end, the only "correct" way to make characters is make characters whom you, the writer, can write well, believably, or have an interest in. Trying to make a character to appeal to some other person's idea of what a character should be will only result in something shallow, and will not stop someone, somewhere, from getting pissed off or offended or whatever.
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Nov 9, 2014 21:00
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BottledBodhisvata posted:In the end, the only "correct" way to make characters is make characters whom you, the writer, can write well, believably, or have an interest in. Trying to make a character to appeal to some other person's idea of what a character should be will only result in something shallow, and will not stop someone, somewhere, from getting pissed off or offended or whatever.
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Nov 9, 2014 21:03
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BottledBodhisvata posted:In the end, the only "correct" way to make characters is make characters whom you, the writer, can write well, believably, or have an interest in. Trying to make a character to appeal to some other person's idea of what a character should be will only result in something shallow, and will not stop someone, somewhere, from getting pissed off or offended or whatever. Please tell me what level of depth Jason Brody had because even as typical protagonists go he's about as deep as a puddle and not nearly as reflective.
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Nov 9, 2014 21:04
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Mill Village posted:Is there a particular mod that you recommend? There's multiple mods that do this on the Far Cry Nexus. It looks like Swartz mod is the best choice. I like Ziggy's Mod. Although the crafting recipes seemed kinda excessive, so I just figured out how to edit those myself.  BottledBodhisvata posted:Postal 2 never had to justify poo poo As rough and dumb as it was, I always kinda liked Postal 2. Trying to play it straight and not as a lunatic was fun, but I always eventually caved and ended up smacking grenades around with a shovel. 
Beeb fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Nov 9, 2014 |
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Nov 9, 2014 21:05
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Samurai Sanders posted:I had to look up a Lombax, I guess that's what the protagonist in Ratchet and Clank is called? I don't think so. Those are designed to be fantasy games, where everything about everything is completely made up. You go into those games knowing that. Far Cry is more like a GTA type thing, where they are trying to sell the vision of a specific place. Like Liberty City has to maintain the image of NYC, while Kyrat is going to have to have portrayals with links to the Himalayas and India. A character who has lived their life in those places obviously knows every nuance of the place, whereas the player probably doesn't know poo poo about it. GTA gets away with this, because they take you from being just an average guy starting from the bottom in the city and go from there, which everyone can relate with, even if they've never been to a big city. Even so, sometimes they still have the character be new to the city. What the hell does anyone know about starting from the bottom in Nepal? I mean sure, they could just start you off there anyways, but I think that culture shock where you're like what in the world, that the character doesn't think twice about because he's been doing it his whole life, would kind of throw you for a loop. Whereas with the story of your mother dying and you honoring her wish to scatter her ashes in a foreign land, then bang, crazy poo poo, is something pretty much anyone could see happening to them in an alternate universe, which makes it easier to role play as the character. It'd just be a big jump from the norm in that regard to have the character be a native who lived their entire life in this foreign place the player knows nothing about, but it'd probably make for an interesting game once you got past the learning curve. You'd have to be open-minded about it to get into it though. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Nov 9, 2014 |
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Nov 9, 2014 21:09
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Ddraig posted:Please tell me what level of depth Jason Brody had because even as typical protagonists go he's about as deep as a puddle and not nearly as reflective. He's not very deep at all and is kind of a dull main character, what's your point? Samurai Sanders posted:Maybe this writer was, and Jason Brody is literally him as a college student. Jason Brody is basically "Typical College Kid Caricature" and that's likely the furthest extent of his character. He's not really supposed to be anything more than a blankish slate everyman with two defining characteristics--weakness and privilege. He's a bit whiny, a little cowardly, driven by a lunatic need to survive and completely alien to the world he's tumbled into. The juxtaposition between him and his macho, go-getter, skilled ex-soldier brother is at the heart of that--you basically see the game kill off who would normally be the protagonist of any other action game to demonstrate that this isn't a game for heroic warriors, this is a game for sneaky motherfuckers who'll snipe people in the neck, gut them from behind, and shoot rockets at them from the tops of radio towers. Writing aside, the main gameplay conceits are nicely established right at the start of the game. You couldn't ask for a better tutorial to introduce you to both the atmosphere, game mechanics, and the general goal of gameplay--kill and survive and sneak. The only real downside is, the game wants to set up an upward scaling to your character, but from the very start you can just run out there and take out bases right away. It's great gameplay, but then you have a predicament where I've killed a hundred dudes and taken six coastal facilities all on my own and then I start the first couple story missions and Brody's like "What? Killing people? I can't do that!"
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Nov 9, 2014 21:12
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Volkerball posted:I don't think so. Those are designed to be fantasy games, where everything about everything is completely made up. You go into those games knowing that. Far Cry is more like a GTA type thing, where they are trying to sell the vision of a specific place. Like Liberty City has to maintain the image of NYC, while Kyrat is going to have to have portrayals with links to the Himalayas and India. A character who has lived their life in those places obviously knows every nuance of the place, whereas the player probably doesn't know poo poo about it. GTA gets away with this, because they take you from being just an average guy starting from the bottom in the city and go from there, which everyone can relate with, even if they've never been to a big city. What the hell does anyone know about starting from the bottom in Nepal? I mean sure, they could just start you off there anyways, but I think that culture shock where you're like what in the world, that the character doesn't think twice about because he's been doing it his whole life, would kind of throw you for a loop. Whereas with the story of your mother dying and you honoring her wish to scatter her ashes in a foreign land, then bang, crazy poo poo, is something pretty much anyone could see happening to them in an alternate universe, which makes it easier to role play as the character. It'd just be a big jump from the norm in that regard to have the character be a native who lived their entire life in this foreign place the player knows nothing about, but it'd probably make for an interesting game once you got past the learning curve. You'd have to be open-minded about it to get into it though. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Nov 9, 2014 |
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Nov 9, 2014 21:14
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BottledBodhisvata posted:The juxtaposition between him and his macho, go-getter, skilled ex-soldier brother is at the heart of that--you basically see the game kill off who would normally be the protagonist of any other action game to demonstrate that this isn't a game for heroic warriors, this is a game for sneaky motherfuckers who'll snipe people in the neck, gut them from behind, and shoot rockets at them from the tops of radio towers. I tackled the game like Rambo and that worked until I installed mods that made it harder, though.
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Nov 9, 2014 21:14
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I think the original point was that it's hard for people to create believable characters if they're not actually that character themselves (or at least in the same situation as them), which is patently bullshit as pretty much all of literature throughout time has proven this to be false. It also goes to show what a crappy writer the writer of Far Cry 3 is in that he can't even create a believable 'average white dude' when he himself is an average white dude and supposedly has all the necessary elements to be able to write that particular character. Again, it all just reeks of retroactively justifying what is a terrible piece of offensive writing by waving his hands and going 'You just don't get it, man!"
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Nov 9, 2014 21:17
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Ariza posted:How many posts in this thread have been about Far Cry 4 and how many have been nerds falling over themselves to say stuff is racist/sexist? Don't you sort of people still have your own thread somewhere to circle jerk? Relax, we haven't hit peak yet. FC3 had people arguing that tourism is literally slavery and anyone that travels abroad is abusing the populace like the white devil they are.
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Nov 9, 2014 21:18
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Volkerball posted:American characters are just the standard because games are largely played by Americans. That's why you've got foreign countries in the AC series where everyone speaks flawless English, etc. Eh, AC is self aware of that and tries to justify using the magic of the Animus. Except for 4, that was corporate meddling.
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Nov 9, 2014 21:20
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Ddraig posted:I think the original point was that it's hard for people to create believable characters if they're not actually that character themselves (or at least in the same situation as them), which is patently bullshit as pretty much all of literature throughout time has proven this to be false.
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Nov 9, 2014 21:22
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ayn rand hand job posted:Eh, AC is self aware of that and tries to justify using the magic of the Animus. Does it ever specifically say that everything is English in the Animus? It always seemed to me they just gave everyone a slight Italian accent and were like "See! It's Italy!"
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Nov 9, 2014 21:31
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