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NO LISTEN TO ME
Jan 3, 2009

「プリスティンビート」
「Pristine Beat」
Does the converter do anything if you're blue baby? Should I just never buy it as him ever?

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Dackel
Sep 11, 2014


Ghost Head posted:

holy poo poo gently caress bob's brain. I was having a great run early and that stupid loving item ruined everything.

I honestly don't pick it up anymore, I just can't get used to it

Dias
Feb 20, 2011

by sebmojo

im gay posted:

I need help badly. I played the original BoI briefly and learned the basics. After playing Rebirth I seem to be struggling on Normal with Isaac and I only have 1 mom kill out of 30+ deaths. Is this normal? Should I be resetting if I have bad spawns on floor one?

Any advice other than playing slow? Are there any guides for intermediate players?

You guys all seem to have lots of completed things and I'm nowhere near any of that.

Some Isaac tips from a lovely player, but that have helped me become less lovely:

- Dark Bum, flight, damage, full map - your priorities. Dark Bum is highlighted because he's that awesome (Devil Store for one heart, it's worth it). Flight gets you more items and makes dodging easier, damage is damage and knowing where stores, items and bosses are makes your life easier, especially at the Womb and beyond. You can sorta buy those things in most runs between the Devil rooms and the store, and it's usually worth the loss of the heart containers/the 15 coins.
- Use your consumables well. Keys are for item doors unless you get 15 coins. I use bombs for digging up secret rooms and breaking marked rocks. The tarot cards are situational, so you better learn what they do. Pills...well, you probably shouldn't use them unless a stat down won't hurt you too bad. Coins are up to you. If you can spare a key and the store is selling something good, it should be your priority. Otherwise, dumping money at an arcade usually gives you a bunch of consumables/hearts. Solo slot machines and bums aren't that great, but in a pinch/if you have nothing to spend coins on, they're okay. gently caress the fortune telling machine.
- Cheese bosses and annoying enemies whenever you can. That's why I really like getting flight - it breaks bosses that can't hit you over rocks and jumping enemies. If you are so lucky to get flight AND a beam, there's very few enemies that actually pose a threat to you. Some bosses have very exploitable patterns too, like the horsemen - they almost always dash at you if you're facing them.
- Also, don't explore more than you need to. You got the boss door location, decent health, the free item and maybe bombs/keys? GTFO. Chances are you'll stumble into a room full of spikes with six vagina-beam enemies if you keep on going. Or a small room with Masks. Or a corridor with four of those bomb flies. What I'm trying to say is that this game hates you.

Zoness
Jul 24, 2011

Talk to the hand.
Grimey Drawer

Ghost Head posted:

Also what's the deal with items and bosses showing up constantly? Bob's brain is so common. So is Gurdy and Monstro. It kind of ruins the whole "hey I wonder what's going to happen next" vibe at least on the early floors. It gets pretty good at around the depths I think

Unlock more stuff and you'll get more variety in item/boss spawns.

Monstro might be boring but Monstro II is probably the third most frustrating boss, probably because I face him the most often when I don't have an outright overpowered loadout.

Broken Cog
Dec 29, 2009

We're all friends here
Monstro II is only frustrating because holy poo poo he has so much hp.

SuccinctAndPunchy
Mar 29, 2013

People are supposed to get hurt by things. It's fucked up to not. It's not good for you.

Random rear end in a top hat posted:

Yeah, getting no-hit achievements with it should be fixed (along with the second-floor only bug for those),

They're not "no-hit" achievements, they're "no-damage" achievements. It ain't a bug, it's working as intended.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

Broken Cog posted:

Monstro II is only frustrating because holy poo poo he has so much hp.

Gish is even worse. He has at least double that and isn't threatening at all.

Just discovered that the Polaroid still makes you invulnerable every hit if you're on a soul hearts only build. Made Satan a loving joke (I didn't get any womb 2 devil rooms before I unlocked It Lives and the Cathedral is usually easier for me than Sheol).

Alkydere
Jun 7, 2010
Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.



I have been loving blessed this round. Dead Baby run, Epic Fetus on floor 1, pill pull is full of Hematosis (reduces your red heart pool to 1, drops hearts at your feet), Health Up and Balls of Steel. Dark Bum on floor 2 deal, as well as the item that gave double of all item drops (keys, hearts, bombs and coins) in the store. I can blow myself up as much as I want and still stay at max health without trying.

Also, Epic Fetus really does need a damage buff. I should not need 30-40 bombs to kill Gurdy.

FKJB-NFDH if anyone is curious.

Magres
Jul 14, 2011

legendsuper posted:



This run's safety provided to you by: the Trinity Shield, the Mask of Infamy, three orbital flies, and blue flies every other second.
Not pictured: Monstro's Lung + Ipecac.

How exactly do Trinity Shield and Mask of Infamy work? I know they're both defensive and if I'm not mistaken, Trinity Shield eats bullets that touch it, but I have no idea how the Mask works (because my immediate guess is that it does the exact same thing as Trinity Shield, which seems wrong)

ThisIsACoolGuy
Nov 2, 2010

Shaped like a friend

Had a run that I gave up on completely with vanilla Isaac. No D6 yet or anything. At one point I was just grabbing devil items desperate for something good as all I got was a attack fly and a bunch of beans and stuff. My most powerful item was the nail, 3 dollar bill and Lord of the Pit.

I had like 3 orbitals and the upgrade that makes flies and such huge so moms heart couldn't hit me so it was just this extremely slow plodding death and just ughh miserable.

Crosspeice
Aug 9, 2013

Mask will block shots sometimes, but not everytime, or it blocks every shot that hits the mask on your character. I swear I wasn't looking at some shots but they were still blocked.

It's also kinda annoying when your spiders kill Isaac before you can even fire off a shot. :sigh:

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

The mask is flaky and annoying. I've had it tank the entire Isaac fight and I've had it let through every other pooter shot, with no real idea what went different other than the results.

octobernight
Nov 25, 2004
High Priest of the Christian-Atheist Church

Broken Cog posted:

Ludevico generally leads to hilarious results no matter what other mods it's paired up with.
I wish it showed up more often...

I got Ludevico and Magnetic Tears after walking into a dice room. The only problem was I also got Tiny Planet. It was a near impossible to control tear that would suck all the enemies into me. I had to restart that run.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
Extra card slot = amazing. extra pill slot (without phd) = terrible.

The fact that these items synergize with the pill bottle and the card deck and change every pill/card drop makes a massive difference. I assume that if you have PHD you could possibly get infinite stat ups with the pills but otherwise you can get screwed over by the RNG.

VDay
Jul 2, 2003

I'm Pacman Jones!
Got the D100, and had enough umph to truck through cathedral and chest and beat ??? :toot:

Got mom's contacts as the first item, then got lucky and got a bunch of fire rate items in a row that let me keep bosses more or less perma-frozen. Then that ramped up perfectly into getting a bunch of damage buffs and some orbitals which definitely saved me a few times. Surprise MVP of the run was definitely getting spirit of the night. Having my tears be spectral let me hide behind/over/next to rocks and completely avoid all kinds of damage while killing something.

By the time I got to the boss rush room I had a pretty typical "Everything dies or can't do anything" build and the rush was mostly about avoiding the few stray shots that got through my frozen tear spam. Closest call was whichever loving version of Gurdy or Monstro or whoever it is that shoots Brimstone at you, who I even thought about and reminded myself about before the rush started. I was on the right side finishing up the previous wave's boss and the fucker spawned on the left and immediately let off a brimstone blast that I was pixels away from flying straight into.

All in all, I'm really liking the Lost and think it's a fantastic addition to the game. It adds a whole new element of challenge to the game and makes just getting to the womb or cathedral/sheol rewarding again, which is nice if you're at a point where beating Mom's heart isn't really that exciting anymore. I kind of wish it kept track of your negative streak as well, but I get why they don't. I think I was at like -75 when I finally got that run, with most of my deaths coming to early annoying stuff like spiders in the basement. My favorite was getting a Judgement card, immediately using it, assuming it'd be regular judgey, and then dying immediately when a dark heart judgey spawned instead. Fun times.

Ghost Head
Sep 16, 2008

Zoness posted:

Unlock more stuff and you'll get more variety in item/boss spawns.

Monstro might be boring but Monstro II is probably the third most frustrating boss, probably because I face him the most often when I don't have an outright overpowered loadout.

I've already unlocked everything is terrible. I'm not sure what else I need to do.

AndroidHub
Feb 28, 2007

I've seen some stuff that would really make you say "like what?"
Figured I'd share this, I used a dice room with a 1 to reroll a probably doomed run on cathedral before fighting isaac, I didn't start recording until I had done a few rooms of the chest though, not really sure what all it gave me, but at the very least it was ipecac, tiny planet, three dollar bill and so much more. If I kept tapping fire to launch ipecacs fast enough none of them would actually hit the ground because they would despawn.

e: oh yeah and it had magnetic tears :v:

Disgusting Coward
Feb 17, 2014
I had to buy some lime freeze pops because of a totally insane run with poisonous brimstone.

Poisoned blood-barf just looks so tasty.

AHungryRobot
Oct 12, 2012
The lost would be a lot less lovely if they removed the HP up items from the drop pools when you play as him.

egg tats
Apr 3, 2010

Ghost Head posted:

I've already unlocked everything is terrible. I'm not sure what else I need to do.

Keep knocking out mom's heart kills until you unlock It Lives, then start going for wins in sheol and the cathedral. The goal now is to beat each final boss with each character. You basically just unlocked "the real game starts now"

Ghost Head
Sep 16, 2008
One thing I've noticed, particularly in hard mode, is that the basement levels should maybe be a tad more forgiving. I mean, if the game is going to gently caress me with item drops and room and enemy layouts and then give me the haunt boss then I am just going to gently caress it back by restarting. At that point I'm not very invested in the run so why put up with that garbage?

Broken Cog
Dec 29, 2009

We're all friends here
The "Cat got your tongue" and "Solar System" challenges are the worst. That is all.

Alkydere
Jun 7, 2010
Capitol: A building or complex of buildings in which any legislature meets.
Capital: A city designated as a legislative seat by the government or some other authority, often the city in which the government is located; otherwise the most important city within a country or a subdivision of it.



Welp, super Fetus in a Jar run came to an end.

A few notes: Dr. Fetus bomb tears definitely need a damage buff, holy poo poo. There needs to be a multiplier greater than 1 applied to your damage when you're throwing bombs everywhere.

Enemy piercing bomb tears are literally the worst thing. It's great watching your bombs that would previously stop when they hit an enemy (and often gently caress with the enemy's pathing so they'd just sit there until the bomb detonated) slide harmlessly though the fly/zombie/boss you shot it at.

Mask of Infamy needs to wrap his mouth around an exhaust pipe and breathe deep until he is no more. He is the most obnoxious, tedious boss in the game, especially his second phase. He's not even hard. He's just a pain in the rear end to damage in his second phase that poses no more threat than Larry Jr.

Broken Cog posted:

The "Cat got your tongue" and "Solar System" challenges are the worst. That is all.

Pray for a good carry, that's all I can tell you. Devil Rooms provide the best carries with Devil Bums, Brimstone Baby (letting you attack via proxy) and Krampus Heads.

Alkydere fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Nov 10, 2014

Shadow Ninja 64
May 21, 2007

"I stood there, wondering why the puck was getting bigger...

and then it hit me."


Ask me about ruining a The Lost run where I got Brimstone and Holy Mantle because I got blindsided by a red fire in a Krampus fight, then hit by Krampus's last shot after dying.

It sucked. That's the answer.

On a more positive note, I got the Cursed challenge done second try.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

Alkydere posted:

Welp, super Fetus in a Jar run came to an end.

A few notes: Dr. Fetus bomb tears definitely need a damage buff, holy poo poo. There needs to be a multiplier greater than 1 applied to your damage when you're throwing bombs everywhere.

Enemy piercing bomb tears are literally the worst thing. It's great watching your bombs that would previously stop when they hit an enemy (and often gently caress with the enemy's pathing so they'd just sit there until the bomb detonated) slide harmlessly though the fly/zombie/boss you shot it at.

Mask of Infamy needs to wrap his mouth around an exhaust pipe and breathe deep until he is no more. He is the most obnoxious, tedious boss in the game, especially his second phase. He's not even hard. He's just a pain in the rear end to damage in his second phase that poses no more threat than Larry Jr.


Pray for a good carry, that's all I can tell you. Devil Rooms provide the best carries with Devil Bums, Brimstone Baby (letting you attack via proxy) and Krampus Heads.

Fetus bombs, while based on your damage, scale really fast. You start doing some pretty nasty endgame worthy damage at about 4 pips.

On an unrelated note: I somehow finished my first ever chest run despite going in with only 4 hearts. ???? seemed even easier than Isaac.

VDay
Jul 2, 2003

I'm Pacman Jones!

AHungryRobot posted:

The lost would be a lot less lovely if they removed the HP up items from the drop pools when you play as him.
To be fair, that would make him significantly easier so I see why they didn't do it. It would basically turn the Lost into a weaker version of Isaac with a D6. Being able to remove or re-roll bad/useless powerups is what leads to the really fun/broken runs.

Ghost Head posted:

One thing I've noticed, particularly in hard mode, is that the basement levels should maybe be a tad more forgiving. I mean, if the game is going to gently caress me with item drops and room and enemy layouts and then give me the haunt boss then I am just going to gently caress it back by restarting. At that point I'm not very invested in the run so why put up with that garbage?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with just restarting over and over and over again until you get a good first item if you're just trying to beat a certain boss or unlock something or just want to have a fun run. That's what I do 99% of the time I play BoI and the only exception is if I'm bored or just screwing around or want to see what streak I can go on before dying to something stupid. Play the game however you want and exploit/break it as much or as little as you feel like. That's the whole point and it's why I keep rolling my eyes any time people bring up nerfing items.

Shadow Ninja 64 posted:

Ask me about ruining a The Lost run where I got Brimstone and Holy Mantle because I got blindsided by a red fire in a Krampus fight, then hit by Krampus's last shot after dying.

It sucked. That's the answer.
I ruined a Lost run where I got epic fetus in the first item room in like 2 minutes by accidentally flying into a fire in the corner while dodging a spider and trying to aim the rocket to hit multiple dudes.

VDay fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Nov 10, 2014

Ghost Head
Sep 16, 2008

senae posted:

Keep knocking out mom's heart kills until you unlock It Lives, then start going for wins in sheol and the cathedral. The goal now is to beat each final boss with each character. You basically just unlocked "the real game starts now"

Does It Lives also unlock some new bosses on the lower levels? Because I was under the impression I should have unlocked pretty much all of the basement bosses by now. In the basement I've seen Gemini, Monstro, Pin, Larry Jr and Famine. My problem is that I see Monstro all the time. I feel like there's a problem with the spawn rate of the basement bosses for me to be seeing him so often

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006

Ghost Head posted:

Does It Lives also unlock some new bosses on the lower levels? Because I was under the impression I should have unlocked pretty much all of the basement bosses by now. In the basement I've seen Gemini, Monstro, Pin, Larry Jr and Famine. My problem is that I see Monstro all the time. I feel like there's a problem with the spawn rate of the basement bosses for me to be seeing him so often

Pretty sure the only other basement boss is Steven, and he unlocks after some number of heart kills on the way to It Lives. The rest of the bullshit is hiding in the Cellar, which unlocks by killing the little part of Gemini first. Don't loving do it unless you're really bored, the cellar sucks balls.

Mindblast
Jun 28, 2006

Moving at the speed of death.


There's an item I only found once (first run too, strangely enough) that disables your regular tears and gives you a big floating tear instead. It controls like a character. You hurt enemies by moving the ball into them. This means you're basically controlling two characters at once with directly opposite goals; you're constantly avoiding all harm with isaac while trying to intercept/ram things with the tear. It's confusing but fun as hell.

...just don't pick up tiny planet or whatever it's called. It'll cause the tear to revolve around as you'd expect, so now you have to counteract both the rotation and it's desire to follow after Isaac! :argh:

AHungryRobot
Oct 12, 2012

VDay posted:

To be fair, that would make him significantly easier so I see why they didn't do it. It would basically turn the Lost into a weaker version of Isaac with a D6. Being able to remove or re-roll bad/useless powerups is what leads to the really fun/broken runs.
I don't think it'd make him that much easier. Getting a damage upgrade or a tears upgrade would be nice but it's not like it'll loving magically carry you all the way to the chest all by itself. The item room drop pool is massive so removing the HP ups there won't really have that noticeable of an effect, you'd only really notice a difference in the boss drops, and they don't drop anything that amazing anyways.

Ghost Head
Sep 16, 2008

VDay posted:


There's absolutely nothing wrong with just restarting over and over and over again until you get a good first item if you're just trying to beat a certain boss or unlock something or just want to have a fun run. That's what I do 99% of the time I play BoI and the only exception is if I'm bored or just screwing around or want to see what streak I can go on before dying to something stupid. Play the game however you want and exploit/break it as much or as little as you feel like. That's the whole point and it's why I keep rolling my eyes any time people bring up nerfing items.


Yeah I pretty much agree with this. I don't think they need to nerf anything. Obviously if you get the dark bum every single time that would defeat the purpose of the game but it's great when you snag that rare op item drop in the middle of your run. That's what this whole genre is about. And also, all the so-called "overpowered" items are pretty balanced on hard mode.

Cryohazard
Feb 5, 2010

Stelas posted:

Holy poo poo, I'm finally done with Beans!, Solar System, and Cat Got Your Tongue. Please tell me there aren't any more blindfold challenges.

Are you much of a family man?

Stelas
Sep 6, 2010

If that means there's a follower-only run coming along, I reckon I'd probably be okay with that. As long as I've got something that can shoot loving tears rather than have to bump into things or fart on them.

Luceid
Jan 20, 2005

Buy some freaking medicine.

dis astranagant posted:

Don't loving do it unless you're really bored, the cellar sucks balls.

It has tight music though!

Dizz
Feb 14, 2010


L :dva: L
To unlock The Lost, Must I get the kills on the players in a row? or can I have deaths in between?

Wugga
Oct 30, 2006

I BEAT MEAT

Dizz posted:

To unlock The Lost, Must I get the kills on the players in a row? or can I have deaths in between?

Also: do you have to do them in a specific order?

SuccinctAndPunchy
Mar 29, 2013

People are supposed to get hurt by things. It's fucked up to not. It's not good for you.

Dizz posted:

To unlock The Lost, Must I get the kills on the players in a row? or can I have deaths in between?

They must be consecutive, no deaths inbetween. I'm given to understand you can get away with holding "R" to reset to avoid dying to something that would gently caress the chain up.

And yes, the specific order is needed.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006



What is that first item?

Maha
Dec 29, 2006
sapere aude

dis astranagant posted:



What is that first item?

Black Lotus, I think. One red heart, one soul, one black.

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SuccinctAndPunchy
Mar 29, 2013

People are supposed to get hurt by things. It's fucked up to not. It's not good for you.

dis astranagant posted:



What is that first item?

Pentagram? It's hard to tell with the filter blurring the poo poo out of everything.

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