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I think it was a great idea done in the most boring way by an old man desperately trying to write a bunch of teenagers. For the record, I liked the original Spider-Girl ongoing okay but every book after that successfully killed any good will I have for that setting and those characters. Spider-Girl: The End in particular is one of the most intelligence insultingly bad comics I've ever read.
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Nov 11, 2014 01:31
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I liked the original Spider-Girl series and enjoyed how some characters were handled. But DeFalco's dialogue gets loving OLD after a while.
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Nov 11, 2014 02:21
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Remember how Spider-Girl was supposed to be set in an alternate present and then thirty+ year old Arana shows up out of nowhere as a villain (hint: the reason is because DeFalco hates the character) In fact there's a legend that Arana was supposed to launch as Spider-Girl and DeFalco threw a hissy fit about it and got his way, just like he did constantly for like ten years.
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Nov 11, 2014 02:29
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Blockhouse posted:Remember how Spider-Girl was supposed to be set in an alternate present and then thirty+ year old Arana shows up out of nowhere as a villain (hint: the reason is because DeFalco hates the character) Alternate present? Full of aged versions of dozens of Marvel characters? It was always laid out as a future from what I recall. And the second part is no legend, that was fairly well known.
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Nov 11, 2014 03:14
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I never understood what people saw in Spider-Girl. I always thought it was a mediocre to bad book. I honestly don't care if Slott kills them all off and then Hickman finishes up that universe for him.
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Nov 11, 2014 03:16
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Rhyno posted:Alternate present? Full of aged versions of dozens of Marvel characters? It was always laid out as a future from what I recall. I haven't read any MC2, but that's any easy case to make, just start with the idea that Peter Parker was 15 in the 60's, which he was when he was created, then 30-40 years later he's aged in normal time and has a teenage child.
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Nov 11, 2014 03:27
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Skwirl posted:I haven't read any MC2, but that's any easy case to make, just start with the idea that Peter Parker was 15 in the 60's, which he was when he was created, then 30-40 years later he's aged in normal time and has a teenage child. The book is a What If that pins directly out of the Clone Saga and heavily references it throughout it's run. The most 90's of 90's crossovers spawned the series. It was never an alternate present.
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Nov 11, 2014 03:30
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Rhyno posted:The book is a What If that pins directly out of the Clone Saga and heavily references it throughout it's run. The most 90's of 90's crossovers spawned the series. It was never an alternate present. Don't blame me that's what DeFalco insisted on!
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Nov 11, 2014 05:58
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Blockhouse posted:Don't blame me that's what DeFalco insisted on! Well he's dumb.
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Nov 11, 2014 06:19
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Blockhouse posted:I think it was a great idea done in the most boring way by an old man desperately trying to write a bunch of teenagers. Not sure who'd I get on art, but whatever. Maybe keep Frenz on, or bring back the guy who did the art for Spider-Girl #51 (one Casey Jones. I don't know if he hangs out with any Ninja Turtles). But then I'm an idiot who overthinks these sort of things. Deadpool posted:I never understood what people saw in Spider-Girl. I always thought it was a mediocre to bad book. I honestly don't care if Slott kills them all off and then Hickman finishes up that universe for him. Well she had the longest-running solo series of any female hero at Marvel, so there is that. Also, like Spider-Man Adventures, it was a universe that focused on being fun, but at the same time was still capable of some good dramatic beats. I won't deny nostalgia probably plays a big part in it (hell the first comics I bought that weren't single issues were 4 Spider-Girl digests, so I'm in no way impartial), but it did have its own charm. Also, I believe for much of Spider-Girl run, the contemporary Spider-Man books were kind of bad. This was before JMS took over, I think. It had a dedicated enough fanbase to stave off cancellation I think it was 3 times, so it definitely had something going for it, even if I'm struggling to put it into words.
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Nov 11, 2014 12:27
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Deadpool posted:I never understood what people saw in Spider-Girl. I always thought it was a mediocre to bad book. I honestly don't care if Slott kills them all off and then Hickman finishes up that universe for him. Slott using them is actually one of the few things keeping the character around. At least being included in Spider-Verse means the character doesn't get shunted off to obscurity or included in the various worlds that are incursioned out of existence. Plus giving her a baby to look after means that they have intentions of the character not dying. Blockhouse posted:I think it was a great idea done in the most boring way by an old man desperately trying to write a bunch of teenagers. Honestly this is just the same for me. It's just that relic of old editors getting to do a ridiculously outdated book for years, it's a failed (early) attempt at Ultimate Spider-Man but it continued on for years because of DeFalco's sway at Marvel and then he threw a tantrum when Quesada eventually cancelled the book. I point out J2 specifically with the books because just looking at him you see a style of middle aged dudes trying to pick what's hip in the 90's (even though they are a few years too late with style). I get people having an emotional attachment to the book, I got into Spider-Man when the Clone Saga was coming out and still want Ben Reilly around but I'm not going to pretend that time for Spider-Man was overall some legitimate great piece of work. Waterhaul fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 12:51
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I've read maybe half a dozen comics with Spider-Girl in them ever, but Spider-Girl (for a long time) had a small but loyal fanbase that kept the sales chugging along at a profitable level for years. I always got the impression it was a self-indulgent cul de sac for Tom DeFalco, but it was also a straightforward throwback-to-Silver-Age non-bloody self-contained superhero book through a period without many of those at all. Plus it had a female lead. This seems like a surefire path to a devoted cult following, and while it wasn't for me I say good for all parties who ran that formula until the wheels fell off.
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Nov 11, 2014 19:23
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Waterhaul posted:Slott using them is actually one of the few things keeping the character around. At least being included in Spider-Verse means the character doesn't get shunted off to obscurity or included in the various worlds that are incursioned out of existence. Plus giving her a baby to look after means that they have intentions of the character not dying. I'm not a Spider-Girl fan but "a character keeps getting written in dark, depressing or bad stories" isn't inherently better than them fading away, especially when they have their own universe. The inability for comic book authors to let a story go rarely works out.
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Nov 11, 2014 19:28
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ImpAtom posted:I'm not a Spider-Girl fan but "a character keeps getting written in dark, depressing or bad stories" isn't inherently better than them fading away, especially when they have their own universe. The inability for comic book authors to let a story go rarely works out. Spider-Girl herself has not been written as dark or depressing and the outcome of Spider-Verse won't be either, bad is subjective. I agree though that the complaints from DeFalco is an example of an authors inability to let go.
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Nov 11, 2014 19:34
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Waterhaul posted:Spider-Girl herself has not been written as dark or depressing and the outcome of Spider-Verse won't be either, bad is subjective. I agree though that the complaints from DeFalco is an example of an authors inability to let go. "Her father was murdered by a dimension-travelling vampire" is dark and depressing. You know what I was saying with my other comment too. I get you don't like Spider-Girl but the "shut up, unhappy fans, you shouldn't have liked the thing you liked anyway" stuff is pretty silly.
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Nov 11, 2014 19:35
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ImpAtom posted:"Her father was murdered by a dimension-travelling vampire" is dark and depressing. That's a story, not the character themselves being dark and depressing. And again none of Slotts events or stories so far have actually ended on a downer. There is clearly a lot more to happen with this character. And I never said shut up unhappy fans. I said I understood how people have emotional connections to first stories/old stories they read but nostalgia clouds a lot of the outrage over the Spider-Girl stuff and if you're talking quality it's not as if it's miles beyond what Slott is doing. Waterhaul fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 19:38
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Waterhaul posted:That's a story, not the character themselves being dark and depressing. And again none of Slotts events or stories so far have actually ended on a downer. A story and character are innately intertwined. Even if Slott pulls a magical retcon that undoes everything, it doesn't change the core of the story being the story of characters people like being murdered repeatedly. If anything it just kind of underlines how pointlessly crude it is because it's just scenes of violence without consequence because "check it out, Spider-Man (x) died, but it's okay he'll be back at the end!" Like I said, I don't care about Spider-Girl but that doesn't make it any less depressing for her fans for her to be brought back for a story like this, even if they end it with a happy reset ending. (and while I agree Slott will do a positive ending, that doesn't necessarily mean a reset ending.) Waterhaul posted:And I never said shut up unhappy fans. I said I understood how people have emotional connections to first stories/old stories they read but nostalgia clouds a lot of the outrage over the Spider-Girl stuff and if you're talking quality it's not as if it's miles beyond what Slott is doing. What if they disagree with you on the quality? I have a friend who is a big comic fan and loves Spider-Girl not because of nostalgia (he got into it fairly late) but because he liked the universe and characters. I don't think much of Spider-Girl myself but there are people who do and I think it's unfair to say they're all just nostalgia addicts. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 19:45
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ImpAtom posted:I'm not a Spider-Girl fan but "a character keeps getting written in dark, depressing or bad stories" isn't inherently better than them fading away, especially when they have their own universe. The inability for comic book authors to let a story go rarely works out. Welcome to literally all "AAA" comic books. From reading this stuff when I was younger to looking at it now it's like groundhog day. Nothing would make me happier than the creative teams letting these beloved franchises actually evolve. Doing that stuff in just alternate universe books just feels non-committal. If Miles Morales was the main Spider-Man and that was the way it would be until the story again moved on nothing would make me happier.
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Nov 11, 2014 20:56
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Edge & Christian posted:I've read maybe half a dozen comics with Spider-Girl in them ever, but Spider-Girl (for a long time) had a small but loyal fanbase that kept the sales chugging along at a profitable level for years. I always got the impression it was a self-indulgent cul de sac for Tom DeFalco, but it was also a straightforward throwback-to-Silver-Age non-bloody self-contained superhero book through a period without many of those at all. Plus it had a female lead. This seems like a surefire path to a devoted cult following, and while it wasn't for me I say good for all parties who ran that formula until the wheels fell off. And recently it's become clear through Ms. Marvel that those stories are still viable, if done right.
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Nov 11, 2014 21:10
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I wish the writers of big two would learn that death above all else has become loving boring. Look how far writers have to stretch to give it impact, digging up nostalgia bait and sad pets to have anybody care.
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Nov 11, 2014 21:37
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SirDan3k posted:I wish the writers of big two would learn that death above all else has become loving boring. Look how far writers have to stretch to give it impact, digging up nostalgia bait and sad pets to have anybody care. Yeah, 100% Death for shock value is just not interesting to be in comic books any more. It doesn't excite me. I am not excited by current Spider-Man. What does excite is the opportunity to tell interesting and engaging stories that try new things. Miles Morales when that happened, and Thor. It's not super hard. What if the Amazing Friends stuff could have been re-evaluated or explored in some new way? But no they died oh wow so edgy so much excitement put me down for a standing order. Great job.
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Nov 11, 2014 21:45
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Probably Magic posted:I unironically feel this way. Well people really like Kamala Khan so it's not like there's not a market for "teenage dork gets powers, is a legacy, really loving loves being a hero despite being a doofus". Edit: And Nova too. notthegoatseguy posted:Hell the Spider-Man 2099 stuck in 616 isn't even from the original 2099-verse. He's like the the third one. Original, the one from Exiles, and the current guy. No, the one stuck in 616 is the original. The other two were Exiles and Timestorm versions and both of those guys were killed by Morlun.
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Nov 11, 2014 22:06
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Yvonmukluk posted:Well who would you suggest to write the series instead, if Marvel decided tomorrow to do a new series? I'd probably go with Sean McKeever, since he actually wrote her before in a very good fill-in issue and after his work on Spider-Man loves Mary Jane among other things, he'd probably be able to juggle the superheroics and the domestics ably, while keeping the overall light tone of the series. I'd leave DeFalco and Frenz as editors a)so nobody is pressuring them to kill off her parents, and b)so they can focus on keeping continuity for their baby straight. You know, what editors are supposed to do. Not McKeever. Not after his own super hissy fit about being pulled away from his characters in Onslaught Unleashed. I don't trust that guy at all. Honestly? I'd let G. Willow Wilson have a go at it. And I don't want DeFalco involved at all.
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Nov 11, 2014 22:27
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Twist: every Spider-Man from every issue of Slott's run has been from a slightly alternate universe. All of them team up to save the day in an event Slott has literally been planning from day one. My tablet keeps autocorrecting Slott to Sloth.
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Nov 11, 2014 23:21
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Sure, if they want to keep Spider-Girl going they could give it to Roger Stern (granted, a writer who was quite strongly against Peter getting married) or J. M. DeMatteis or (to a lesser extent) Peter David. Edit: Oh, yeah, or G. Willow Wilson. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Nov 11, 2014 |
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Nov 11, 2014 23:21
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Blockhouse posted:Not McKeever. Not after his own super hissy fit about being pulled away from his characters in Onslaught Unleashed. I don't trust that guy at all.
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Nov 11, 2014 23:51
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Yvonmukluk posted:Well who would you suggest to write the series instead, if Marvel decided tomorrow to do a new series? I'd probably go with Sean McKeever, since he actually wrote her before in a very good fill-in issue and after his work on Spider-Man loves Mary Jane among other things, he'd probably be able to juggle the superheroics and the domestics ably, while keeping the overall light tone of the series. I'd leave DeFalco and Frenz as editors a)so nobody is pressuring them to kill off her parents, and b)so they can focus on keeping continuity for their baby straight. You know, what editors are supposed to do. I can't wait until we get one page of an already dead SMLMJ Spidey while one of the Morlun Goofs makes a snarky remark about how "nobody loved him" or something to poo poo on fans of that book as well because Slott's trolling the dumb fanboys so hard and drinking their tears.
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Nov 11, 2014 23:59
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Suben posted:I can't wait until we get one page of an already dead SMLMJ Spidey while one of the Morlun Goofs makes a snarky remark about how "nobody loved him" or something to poo poo on fans of that book as well because Slott's trolling the dumb fanboys so hard and drinking their tears. 
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Nov 12, 2014 00:10
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Edge & Christian posted:I guess I missed this, what was the hissyfit? Essentially erasing Rikki out of existence and having Toro go away forever because he wouldn't get to write them anymore. surprised he didn't have Gravity just spontaneously combust too. Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 00:39
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Blockhouse posted:Essentially erasing Rikki out of existence and having Toro go away forever because he wouldn't get to write them anymore. But reading a summary of the series it sounds kind of like... wrapping up his plotlines? Where he also left openings for either character to return? Maybe it feels more like a "super hissy fit" if you were reading it as it came out.
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Nov 12, 2014 01:15
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I've been against a lot of the killings in Spider-Verse, but Morlun eating the Hostess Spider-Man is hilarious, especially because if you read it as "Morlun pauses for an entire page to enjoy a twinkie."
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Nov 12, 2014 01:20
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Blockhouse posted:Essentially erasing Rikki out of existence and having Toro go away forever because he wouldn't get to write them anymore. How do you know the Rikki thing wasn't editorially mandated?
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Nov 12, 2014 03:00
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Yvonmukluk posted:And recently it's become clear through Ms. Marvel that those stories are still viable, if done right.
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Nov 12, 2014 03:03
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Flameingblack posted:Anya was like that too, until they killed her father and orphaned her. Never underestimate editoria's misguided attempts to "SHAKE THINGS UP FOREVER!" I honestly didn't care much for Anya until she adopted the Spider-Girl thing. I thought that first issue was good but then that dumb writer went on and on about "an Uncle Ben moment" so of course her father had to be murdered.
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Nov 12, 2014 04:17
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Anya was always a great character trapped in bad books. Arana was rough, Ms. Marvel had her getting partially depowered and then being made into a teenage mind slave, Spider-Girl had like one good issue. Amazing Spider-Girl and Young Allies weren't bad, though, and Avengers Assemble was the best.Suben posted:How do you know the Rikki thing wasn't editorially mandated? You're right, I don't, but why would it be mandated? Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 08:06 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 08:04
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I enjoyed Spider-Verse #1, but it does absolutely nothing to advance the plot. It's really just Edge of Spiderverse #6. Which is fine, because I really liked those comics, but the rebranding is misleading. The Penelope Parker story in particular was a lot of fun, and it has no Inheritors whatsoever.
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Nov 12, 2014 17:14
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I want Morlun and crew to end up in a world undergoing an incursion.
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Nov 12, 2014 17:28
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^^^^ A re-match with Morlun and Black Panther by a writer that doesn't suck would be a good read. Well I didn't really care for the second Spider-verse story. I enjoyed the first one and Slott trolling the gently caress out of Newspaper Spider-Man was pretty funny. But it did nothing to advance the plot. I guess this is going to be the comic where all the other alt Spideys will get that didn't get their own Edge of Spider-Verse book.
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Nov 12, 2014 17:49
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I enjoyed seeing the requisite Spider-Man Hostess pie ad and the newspaper Spider-Man in this issue but yeah, it's not tied heavily into the event itself. It seems like Spider-Verse will actually not be that sprawling after all and the spin-offs/tie-ins are just nice flavor stories. I guess we'll see how things like Spider-Man 2099, Spider-Woman, and the Scarlet Spiders really tie in once the event gets going.
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Nov 12, 2014 18:05
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Blockhouse posted:Anya was always a great character trapped in bad books. Arana was rough, Ms. Marvel had her getting partially depowered and then being made into a teenage mind slave, Spider-Girl had like one good issue. Amazing Spider-Girl and Young Allies weren't bad, though, and Avengers Assemble was the best.
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Nov 12, 2014 18:12
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