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The_Doctor posted:They're apparently about 20 minutes from Gloucester, which is a sizeable city. Bristol isn't too far from that either and that's definitely large. So she wouldn't just be working in Ledworth. Amy can't drive, can she?
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Nov 12, 2014 19:03
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ashez2ashes posted:Is a kissogram even a thing? Seems to me if you were into buying that sort of thing you'd much rather have a stripper or a prostitute anyways. Unless they're way cheaper or something? It's like a candygram or singing telegram but with an innocent smooch instead. loving goons ...
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Nov 12, 2014 19:05
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Timby posted:Yeah, and the thing is, we've already had Davros telling the Doctor, "No, gently caress you, you are not a good man, you are the destroyer of worlds and you turn everyone you travel with into bloodthirsty monsters and by the way gently caress you." Isn't that exactly how Silence in the Library happens? I mean, yeah, Tennant wasn't a younger Doctor to us but...
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Nov 12, 2014 19:05
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Timby posted:Yeah, and the thing is, we've already had Davros telling the Doctor, "No, gently caress you, you are not a good man, you are the destroyer of worlds and you turn everyone you travel with into bloodthirsty monsters and by the way gently caress you." Yeah, more than once, really. I do think that's what he's best at, but we definitely need a break from that sort of thing after the most recent season.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:06
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armoredgorilla posted:It's like a candygram or singing telegram but with an innocent smooch instead. loving goons ... Really? Because if you Google for them in Manchester the first few results are for strippers. It's just not really a thing here at all.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:07
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PriorMarcus posted:What's a tiny English village need with a kissogram in this day and age? I mean... What it just Moffat not being able to call her a stripper or something? You know you can have a job and live in completely different locations right? I've lived in villiages like where Amy lived and been within 5 mins drive of a major city. Edit and yes, kissograms are a thing that are not strippers. Mr Beens fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 19:10
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Hilariously, the Wikipedia entry on kissograms, which is a mere stub, references Encarta as its source. I had no idea that they existed before Doctor Who, which is the only context I have ever encountered them, if I'm to be honest.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:10
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After they met Orson Pink, I spent the rest of the season expecting Danny and the Doctor to slowly become friends. I really thought we were going to have episodes with Danny, Claire, and the Doctor traveling together. I still kind of wish it happened.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:12
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They should have made her job grunt-o-grams instead.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:13
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PriorMarcus posted:Really? Because if you Google for them in Manchester the first few results are for strippers.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:19
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I thought it was strange too but mostly because it seemed like a weird thing for a show like Doctor Who to have a character doing.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:30
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PriorMarcus posted:Really? Because if you Google for them in Manchester the first few results are for strippers. You must suck at Google then, because pretty much every "kissagram" agency website you go to in the UK will offer you different rates for just a kissogram to a full strip - different girls will do different things
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Nov 12, 2014 19:34
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Spacebump posted:After they met Orson Pink, I spent the rest of the season expecting Danny and the Doctor to slowly become friends. I really thought we were going to have episodes with Danny, Claire, and the Doctor traveling together. I still kind of wish it happened. 
Soothing Vapors fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 19:35
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Moffat needed an excuse for Amy to be dressed as a police officer (and not actually BE a police officer, god forbid a companion have an interesting job like that) and landed on "fetish thing". Probably most other answers would have to reach a bit but I think it would be worth it to not have that in the episode.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:39
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And not just a police officer, but a police officer in a short skirt. That really was a good look for Gillan.
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Nov 12, 2014 19:42
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Honestly, the Doctor landing on Halloween would have worked just as well, if not better.
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Nov 12, 2014 20:03
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I think Amy has a few more jobs after she and Rory stop accompanying the Doctor full-time. She's a model with her own fragrance in "Closing Time", I believe she's a travel writer at one point, and obviously when she and Rory are trapped in the past in "The Angels Take Manhattan" she becomes a mystery novelist. There might have been another one in there. I'm not sure. Rory is still a nurse in "The Power of Three", which was their penultimate adventure, but in my mind he moonlighted as a freelance special forces operative who parachuted into Harare to singlehandedly pinch some old BBC tapes from Mugabe's private vault. Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Nov 12, 2014 |
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Nov 12, 2014 20:26
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Metal Loaf posted:I think Amy has a few more jobs after she and Rory stop accompanying the Doctor full-time. She's a model with her own fragrance in "Closing Time", Wasn't that Asylum of the Daleks?
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Nov 12, 2014 20:58
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I'm not sure about "Asylum" though there may well be a scene in it I've just forgotten, or maybe I've confused them. However, I definitely recall a scene in "Closing Time" where the Doctor in a department store when he notices Amy and Rory out shopping, then a little girl runs up to Amy for her autograph and he notices a poster of her advertising her perfume in the behind her. "Closing Time" was a Cybermen episode (well, an episode with Cybermen in it), wasn't it?
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Nov 12, 2014 21:06
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Both are true, you see an ad for her fragrance in Closing Time and in Asylum we see her at a fashion shoot.
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Nov 12, 2014 21:16
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It is Closing Time, yes. In Asylum when we first see her she's in a dressing room, but we never find out why. Also, the fragrance is basically called "Damp Soil" in a really lame call back to a previous episode. EDIT: ^ Oh, do we see the shoot? I just remember it being her dressing room we see.
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Nov 12, 2014 21:17
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PriorMarcus posted:EDIT: ^ Oh, do we see the shoot? I just remember it being her dressing room we see. I haven't watched Asylum of the Daleks in forever, but I'm pretty sure they at least establish that they're at a photo shoot. Like we see a photographer taking pictures of models.
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Nov 12, 2014 21:25
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PriorMarcus posted:What it just Moffat not being able to call her a stripper or something? I don't think so, since only a few episodes later there actually IS a stripper, though the Doctor takes her place and insists somebody go out and give the poor girl their coat 
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Nov 12, 2014 22:23
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The_Doctor posted:They're apparently about 20 minutes from Gloucester, which is a sizeable city. Bristol isn't too far from that either and that's definitely large. So she wouldn't just be working in Ledworth. I don't think she was working as a kissogram in Ledworth at all, considering nobody in the town seemed to know about it and they were all wondering if she joined the police. She probably just worked elsewhere. PriorMarcus posted:Amy can't drive, can she? Not that it's solid proof of being able to drive, but she sped and crashed the van during Amy's Choice.
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Nov 12, 2014 22:23
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I think kissograms were more of a thing in the 1970s and 80s, like go-go dancers and singing telegrams. Moffat showing his age.
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Nov 12, 2014 22:35
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Doctor Who Series 8(34): Kiss-o-grams are a thing?
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Nov 12, 2014 22:50
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PriorMarcus posted:Amy can't drive, can she? Public transit. There is sure to be a bus or train connection to the nearby cities.
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Nov 12, 2014 22:57
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Angela Christine posted:Public transit. There is sure to be a bus or train connection to the nearby cities. Pfft, you ever tried to catch a bus in the Greater Bristol area? The buses are so notoriously horrible that the government is currently in the process of devolving powers over transport down to their new elected mayor so he can do something about it. Yes, I am sperging over the realistic portrayal of public transport in a TV show where an alien travels in time in a blue box.
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Nov 12, 2014 23:24
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Rory had a car, didn't he? It would be just like Amy to make her boyfriend drive her to work as a kissogram, don't you think?
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Nov 13, 2014 01:23
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 With Cybermen on the streets of London, old friends unite against old enemies and the Doctor takes to the air in a startling new role. Can the mighty UNIT contain Missy? As the Doctor faces his greatest challenge, sacrifices must be made before the day is won. Peter Capaldi is the Doctor in Death in Heaven. X X X X X Cast Peter Capaldi (The Doctor) Jenna Coleman (Clara Oswald) Samuel Anderson (Danny Pink) Michelle Gomez (The Master) Nicholas Briggs (Voice of the Cybermen) Jemma Redgrave (Kate Lethbridge-Stewart) Ingrid Oliver (Osgood) Chris Addison (Seb) Written by: Steven Moffat Directed by: Rachel Talalay Trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8PPSwXHXZA Gifs by: J-Ru X X X X X #This is how the season ends# #This is how the season ends# #This is how the season ends# #Not with a bang, but with a thud# And I don't mean the thud of someone dropping the mic, I mean the thud of someone slamming into the Earth at high velocity. Death in Heaven sees the Doctor opposite the Master, as the insane Time Lord's plan comes to fruition: the creation of a seemingly limitless army of Cybermen. The story hits peak Moffat, as there are plenty of moments that seem awesome in the moment, but fail to hold up under scrutiny after the episode's end. Thankfully, the chemistry between Peter Capaldi's Doctor and Michelle Gomez's Master is off the charts, serving as the most memorable and enjoyable moments of the episode.  As Cybermen explode over the cities of the Earth and the Master claps her hands with glee, the Doctor finds himself once again alongside Kate Stewart and the Unified Intelligence Taskforce. But they can only watch, helpless, as the remains of the Cybermen form clouds over the cemeteries of the world. Each drop of rain contains the seeds of a horrific fruit; the means to turn human remains into fully-functional Cybermen! As the graves of Earth give up their dead, Clara finds that one of the Cybermen is none other than her dead boyfriend, Danny Pink. And having failed to delete his personality before being turned, Danny feels the pain of cyberconversion and the sorrow of being lost to Clara forever...  It's a Steven Moffat finale, and the script for Death in Heaven contains everything including the kitchen sink and the copper plumbing. It's a non-stop barrage of concepts, ideas, and moments, all meant to elicit an immediate reaction from the viewer, a quick shock to the emotional system before moving on to the next concept, idea, or moment. The complaint I've had all season about ideas “not being given a chance to breathe and grow” is on full display in this episode. The Doctor being made President of Earth. The idea of recently dead minds being stored in a “cloud” as their physical remains were being turned into Cybermen and that the Master has been storing these minds for as long as humanity has had the concept of an after life. Kate Stewart didn't die from being suck out of an airplane. And the deus ex “I am trying to break your heart” ending where the viewer finds out that the Master's bracelet allows one person a one-way trip out of the Nethersphere. Yes, a data cloud storage service meant to store the minds of the recently deceased can somehow send forth a physical body. It's on par with the “lost daughter/sister returns from the leaves” ending from In the Forest of the Night, something drat near nonsensical meant solely to tug on the viewer's heartstrings, any sense of continuity or faux-realism be damned. It's not even a case of “show don't tell.” It goes beyond that. It's “show, then show, then show.” After some great episodes this season where all kinds of ideas and concepts were given to the viewer without hand holding (Listen, Flatline), Death in Heaven is just a barrage, one after another, of shocking/cool moments where Moffat seems to be saying “don't think, just go with it,” but there's no place TO go with it because we're getting dragged along to the next plot point. This episode, put simply, had too many good ideas/moments with no chance to expand on them. It needed less of those moments, but more time to properly work with them. And I'll do my best not to get started on the CyberBrig, which was probably THE biggest slap in the face Moffat could have given fans of the classic series. Nicholas Courtney has sadly passed on. Let his memory rest comfortably. What's next, digging up Elisabeth Sladen for one more run?  (Of course, the idea behind CyberBrig opens up a whole new can of worms. What other companions were turned, even briefly, into Cybermen? Rory? Amy? Adric?) The few moments that truly stood up were thanks more to the directing than to the writing. Rachel Talalay, who also helmed Dark Water, takes those moments and gives them the space and time they need to hit home. The Doctor diving out of an exploding plane to catch his TARDIS, followed by a brief pause as the viewer wonders if he pulled it off, is something that would have been right at home in a Third Doctor story.  When the Cybermen were pulling themselves out of the ground, the scene looked like something from a top-tier zombie flick.  The scene where the Master breaks free from her bonds and kills Osgood after taunting her (and complete with a shout out to Toni Basil) has more tension than the big climactic moment in the graveyard.  And perhaps my favorite moment in the episode, the one moment that actually did break my heart, the Doctor slamming his fists against the TARDIS console as he realizes (and this is what I believe, other interpretations are valid) the Master has lied to him once again and Gallifrey is still missing.  From the opening of Into the Dalek, Danny Pink has been portrayed as a haunted soldier who is content to understand more of the world directly in front of him him as opposed to seeing more of it. By the time of his final fate in Death in Heaven, I came to a simple conclusion. Danny Pink's story arc, despite the best efforts of Samuel Anderson, was poorly handled and nearly a complete waste of time for the viewer. We see Danny Pink, as a Cyberman (and the viewer is initially reminded of this fact thanks to a piece of paper he clutches from his initial rise from the mortuary table all the way to Clara realizing who he is in the graveyard, thanks Steven!), initially begging for Clara to turn on his emotion inhibitor. The makeup effects are astounding as we see the final form of cyberconversion “under the hood” as it were, but other than that, CyberDanny's sole purpose in this story is to whine and complain. First, he pleads with Clara to activate the inhibitor. The Doctor convinces her not to, because a fully-cyberized Danny would try to kill her. But when the Doctor realizes that a fully-cyberized Danny could connect to the hive mind and reveal the truth behind Missy's plan for the Cybermen...thus weighing a calculated risk...Danny MOCKS him for it. (Full disclosure, this was the point in the episode where I screamed a very loud and very profane curse word that woke up my newly-minted wife on the top floor of our townhouse and caused the neighbor's dog to begin barking. At 2 am EST) As the Doctor waffles over the difficult decision, Clara, doing something that companions have always done for the Doctor, offers to make the decision for him and use his sonic screwdriver to activate the inhibitor. When the Doctor hands the screwdriver over, giving into Danny's decision and hoping for the best...Danny MOCKS him for it. “An officer can't get blood on his hands, after all.” (Cue a second use of the very loud and very profane curse word) After an entire season, Danny Pink was reduced to a mouthpiece to drive home the point that “soldiers are bad, officers are bad, and the Doctor is no better than either of them.” Davros makes the very same point in Journey's End that the Doctor turns his companions into soldiers, and throughout that season, the viewers saw it happen; to Martha, to Jack Harkness, and even to Sarah Jane Smith. This season, though, the only time we've seen Danny acting like a soldier was the flashback in Dark Water and marching the kids through London in In the Forest of the Night, along with shouting and saluting the Doctor in The Caretaker. Samuel Anderson did what he could with the material, and kudos to him for acting under all that makeup, but in the end all Danny Pink was a mouthpiece and a prop for Moffat's writing, with very few personality traits or a strong character arc to define him.  On the flip side, this episode was not Jenna Coleman’s swan song as Clara Oswald, as she’ll be starring in the upcoming Christmas special. On one hand, we’ll get an entire episode devoted to tying up the Clara/Doctor relationship with a proper goodbye. On the other hand…this episode WAS a proper goodbye for Clara and the Doctor. From her opening bluff convincing the Cybermen that they couldn’t kill her because she WAS the Doctor (I’m imagining the Cybermen going “we know this is bull, but considering all the stuff the Doctor’s pulled before, let’s make absolutely sure…”) to her agony over Danny’s condition as she tried to activate his inhibitor, to the cold logic of drawing down on the Master, Coleman gave a solid performance, but one that was overshadowed by that of Michelle Gomez. So while I’m glad Clara’s official goodbye is going to be given some screen time instead of being lost amid the season finale, I’m a little torn because, even though both of them were lying to one another, Clara and the Doctor’s farewell in the coffee shop was perfect. Reassuring the other person that everything was truly “ok” when it wasn’t is one of the lynchpins of Twelve and Clara’s time together, sad, bittersweet, but comforting. I just hope that the Christmas Special doesn’t go and cock up what was a truly beautiful moment. (Also, there’s a bit of “get off my lawn” here. Back in MY day companions just up and left 5 minutes before the end of a serial!)  The first half of this serial reminded me of the first half of Deep Breath. The Doctor really didn’t DO anything, and served more as the centerpiece for the other characters to explain just what the hell was going on. It wasn’t until the Doctor confronts the Master onboard the airplane that Capaldi begins to shine. The chemistry between Capaldi and Gomez immediately establishes the chemistry between the Doctor and the Master, former friends turned bitter enemies, but always with the underlying relationship under each word. Capaldi’s Doctor knows exactly what the Master is capable, and the Master knows what the Doctor is capable of figuring out, the anger of Capaldi mixes with the slyness of Gomez…until the end, where Capaldi’s cleverness mixes with Gomez’s dawning realization that her plan has, once again, failed. The key moment for me, as mentioned earlier, is when the Doctor realizes that the Master has lied to him again, and lets loose his anger and frustration in a shower of sparks and a slamming of fists. Just done in simple cutaways and no words, it nails the Doctor’s need for companionship; for someone, anyone, to be alongside him or waiting for him to drop in. In one season, Capaldi has firmly established himself at the Twelfth Doctor. Pragmatic, hiding his emotions, letting his disdain show, and willing to admit, with his flaws and virtues, that he’s not a good man, or a bad man. He’s an idiot. But he’s also honest.  And what else can be said about Michelle Gomez as the Master, aka Missy You’re So Fine You’re So Fine You Blow My Mind Hey Missy? Where one might have expected Moffat to drop the “SHE’S A LADY NOW” hammer over and over again, her gender barely came into play throughout the episode. Even with a female body, Missy was the Master, case closed, locked up for reasons of being absolutely bonkers. Roger Delgado’s Master was suave and calculating. Anthony Ainley’s Master was loud and bombastic. Eric Roberts’ Master was slimy and creepy. John Simm’s Master was a megalomaniac. Michelle Gomez’s Master was calculating while being a show-off. She had a long term plan, but absolutely had to revel in being the center of attention. Gomez lightly gnaws on the scenery while keeping the Master planted firmly in her reality. And that reality is to always, always, screw with the Doctor in any capacity possible. This time out, she’s not trying to take over the world. She’s instead giving the Doctor the KEYS to taking over the world with an invincible army of Cybermen. The ability to enforce his will, which he does anyway, but with an unstoppable force to ensure his will comes to pass. And she does this all…as a birthday present. So the Master and the Doctor could be friends again. Turning the bodies of the dead into Cybermen, all to make the Doctor happy. It’s peak Master, and Michelle Gomez deserves all the credit in the world for taking a “predictable” surprise and making it work. Missy being the Master was something people may have seen coming, but Gomez’s switch between showing off and being cold and calculating, as shown when she easily offs Osgood after taunting her with her impending demise, was spot on. I hope that the blue lines when she was “shot” was her teleporting away, ala the suicide devices in Time Heist, and not her final demise. And even then, the Master showing up, the Doctor going “I thought you were dead,” and the Master laughing it off without an explanation…it’s not a plot hole. It’s just the Master. This season has given us some stinkers (Kill the Moon, In the Forest of the Night), some decent episodes (Robot of Sherwood, The Caretaker), some solid outings (Listen, Mummy on the Orient Express, Into the Dalek), and an outright classic (Flatline). Dark Water/Death in Heaven will be more remembered for Michelle Gomez’s performance as the Master than anything else, but the two-parter manages to serve as a decent, but flawed, capstone to Peter Capaldi’s first season as the Twelfth Doctor. Capaldi owned the role and Jenna Coleman got some decent writing to make Clara Oswald a stand-out companion. All in all, this season could be considered a strong success despite a few speedbumps along the way. I can’t wait until next fall to see what Capaldi (and…sigh…Moffat) bring us next.  Next up... 
CobiWann fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 01:50
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I was actually under the impression that the reason Danny needed Clara to turn on his emotion inhibitor wasn't because it was faulty but because he hadn't deleted his own personality BEFORE being downloaded into a Cyber-Body. It makes sense that Cybermen can't access their own emotion inhibitors once converted since otherwise they might turn their emotions back on and go batshit, so Danny needed to get Clara to do it because he wasn't physically capable of doing it himself. Also I just want to stress again that as far as I could tell the Nethersphere wasn't grabbing up the mind of EVERY human who died throughout history - the Master was getting rich people to pay her for the privilege of being unknowingly cyber-converted, and tracking down people tangentially related to the Doctor (for Master-related reasons, i.e trolling) including Danny's victim. She needed just enough Cybermen to be in position in strategic points in different countries around the globe in order to make the nanocloud, which would then allow them to convert the dead bodies (and not ALL of them, since many were shown to remain unmoving in their graces) into Cybermen, all of which quite explicitly seemed to be mindless, just software programming awaiting command from whomever held the control bracelet. That's why I don't mind the CyberBrig, because I very much got the sense that his presence was very much down to something more than the Master's plan, an unspoken spiritual element ala The Unquiet Dead where the Brigadier basically reached across from the REAL afterlife to save his daughter and take a shot at the Master. After that? I assumed he just flew off to self-destruct the body in the same way Danny did with the Cyberdrones.
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Nov 13, 2014 02:16
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Jerusalem posted:I was actually under the impression that the reason Danny needed Clara to turn on his emotion inhibitor wasn't because it was faulty but because he hadn't deleted his own personality BEFORE being downloaded into a Cyber-Body. It makes sense that Cybermen can't access their own emotion inhibitors once converted since otherwise they might turn their emotions back on and go batshit, so Danny needed to get Clara to do it because he wasn't physically capable of doing it himself. Ah! Yes, you are right, allow me to go back and edit it, and pretend this never happened. And I still feel the CyberBrig could have been done better if it had to be done at all. "Oh, here's a pic of my Dad, oh here's my dead Dad saving my life and shooting the Master, oh here's the Doctor actually saluting someone." It felt so rushed and put in there solely to pull on a heartstring. The character and actor deserved a bit better.
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Nov 13, 2014 02:24
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Jerusalem posted:
The Doctor did sort of say "oh yeah, remember that whole afterlife thing? That was all her".
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Nov 13, 2014 03:06
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computer parts posted:The Doctor did sort of say "oh yeah, remember that whole afterlife thing? That was all her". The season makes it clear on multiple occasions that the Doctor has zero belief in the afterlife. That doesn't mean he is right (or that he is wrong!), and his claim that the Master is the one who created the human notion of the afterlife is a pretty severe leap of logic. Sure she might have influenced it or co-opted it, but I doubt the concept of the afterlife in the Doctor Who universe is restricted purely to humanity alone, we've seen many stories in the past that show different races with belief systems that include Gods and Devils, heaven and hell. It's a chicken and egg type thing, akin to the sound of drums we saw the Master suffer in previous stories - did Rassilon put that sound in there originally or co-opt the Master's pre-existing mental condition? Did the Master create the notion of the afterlife for humanity or just co-opt pre-existing beliefs to serve her actions thousands of years in the future when she convinced a couple thousand rich people to unknowingly volunteer to be turned into the vanguard of a mass cyber-conversion of the dead?
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Nov 13, 2014 03:13
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Which is dumb because no one alive knew about missyrealm, especially not the recent idea of "you can feel your dead body forever", and it's not like humans are the only species with the idea of an afterlife anyway. It's like the statue of liberty angel, it was a dumb idea that still made it to filming.
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Nov 13, 2014 03:13
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Jerusalem posted:That's why I don't mind the CyberBrig, because I very much got the sense that his presence was very much down to something more than the Master's plan, an unspoken spiritual element ala The Unquiet Dead where the Brigadier basically reached across from the REAL afterlife to save his daughter and take a shot at the Master. After that? I assumed he just flew off to self-destruct the body in the same way Danny did with the Cyberdrones. CobiWann posted:
Also, CyberBrig flys off into the sky, no bright explosion like the rest, so there's hope for a future appearance... e: or dread, if it might be thrown together again. Automatic Slim fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 03:16
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computer parts posted:The Doctor did sort of say "oh yeah, remember that whole afterlife thing? That was all her". No, he said that she'd been doing it as long as humanity had an idea of the afterlife. He never said she invented the concept of an afterlife, just that she exploited it. And the whole thing with the rich was that the rich were interred in 3W, leaving their bodies there out of paranoia. They were converted to Cybermen the old fashioned way and self destructed to cause the nanopollen rain. I get the impression every human mind was in the nethersphere, waiting for the rain phase. The whole point of a Cyberman is that you need a mind. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 03:17
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The Master carefully moving up and down time, creating an entire functional afterlife that persists for all human history, just so she can have grist to transform into soldiers for the Doctor on his birthday, is really absolutely perfect. It's immensely diabolical and totally ridiculous all in one.
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Nov 13, 2014 03:20
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MikeJF posted:The whole point of a Cyberman is that you need a mind. Proper Cybermen, yeah, but most of the ones we saw were mindless slaves to whoever held the control bracelet. Some clearly had minds (with their personalities deleted and emotions inhibited) but most of those self-destructed to make the nanocloud, and CyberDanny killed several others inside the 3W Building. There are clearly minds being housed in the nethersphere, but I don't think they're EVERYBODY who ever died, just the few thousand that the Master needed to at least have some level of autonomy when they weren't being directly controlled by her. Most of those would likely be the rich people she conned, as well as those who died during adventures of the Doctor's that she scooped up. Before given orders, the Cybermen in the graves are just kind of staggering about or standing/sitting in place by their graves waiting to be told what to do. The bodies that had been converted were just empty husks, no mind or soul left to them, just a crunchy filling for the Cyberman armor to make up the numbers in the army.
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Nov 13, 2014 03:29
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 12:53 |
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CobiWann posted:in the end all Danny Pink was a mouthpiece and a prop for Moffat's writing, with very few personality traits or a strong character arc to define him. I couldn't disagree with this more, though I think Danny's character arc is probably the biggest failure of an otherwise quite strong season. The pieces are there, though. We were bludgeoned over the head early on with the idea that Danny was (a) a soldier who'd (b) done something horrible while serving, probably involving the death of a civilian. That much is obvious. I don't think his reaction to the Doctor (and specifically to the relationship between the Doctor and Clara) is just about OFFICER BAD SOLDIER BAD DOCTOR BAD ALL BAD BAD BAD (though you can't deny that element entirely of course, as it's all wrapped up in the Doctor's own identity crisis, and Clara's increasing taking on of the Doctor's moral code and way of doing things). It's there to show that (c) Danny almost certainly had an officer while he was a solder, someone he saw as an inspirational figure, someone who 'inspired' him to do that horrible thing and was probably quite unsympathetic about it afterwards. Unfortunately, we never actually saw (c), we had to infer it, but I think it's absolutely there to be inferred. It's the missing piece that makes everything else make sense. Danny sees Clara as a potential fellow victim of a charismatic monster in authority, because he views everything through the lens of his own traumatic experience and his own failures. He's really overbearing toward her at times as a result (most notably at the end of The Caretaker, where he flat-out makes his ability to help her through what he sees as her going down exactly the same path that he did a deal-breaker for their relationship). And that final moment where Danny's berating the Doctor for what he assumes (wrongly!) will be a moment where the Doctor will casually toss away his morality in aid of a tactical advantage is the culmination of this. It's not about Danny judging the Doctor, it's about Danny fundamentally misjudging the Doctor, because he's not had the chance to see him any other way. The agony with which Capaldi plays this moment is one of my favorite moments of the episode. I think it could have been played stronger (because the Doctor should always be the person who absolutely refuses to do something terrible to prevent something worse, in favor of something awesome that no one had even thought of because he's the goddamned motherfucking Doctor), and I think the payoff could have been better than Heroic Sacrifice #37842, but I think they were at least trying for something. Danny is, I think, a very smartly written character who just plain got about half the screen time that he needed, and that's a real shame. He also needed layers beyond his trauma, and I think he had them (most visible in In The Forest Of The Night) but, again, we just didn't get to see as much of it as we could have. docbeard fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Nov 13, 2014 |
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Nov 13, 2014 04:00
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