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e: double post
Bacarruda fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Nov 14, 2014 |
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Nov 14, 2014 00:05
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Cyrano4747 posted:edit: in all seriousness the bodies don't even need to be cold yet for advertisers to get in on this poo poo. That's just the tip of the very, very big iceberg of war-time advertisements. Madison Avenue had no qualms about using the war to sell poo poo. Or if they couldn't sell poo poo because the military was using it, they used that fact for branding. "Look at how patriotic we are, helping the war" or "our products are so great, they can kill Nazis!" In retrospect, these ads can seem really insensitive. Their war is usually cheery, bloodless, and morally unambiguous. But the ads have such an earnest "aw shucks" attitude, it's hard to not like them.           (this is actually a magazine cover, but I've included it because the family's expressions are goddamn great)   (actually a post-war ad from 1946, although thematically similar to war-time ads)          Some companies even used the war as an excuse to rebrand. Lucky Strike cigarettes are probably the best example of this. Prior to the war, Lucky Strikes came in a green box (see below).  But by the early 1940s, Lucky Strike executives were getting disenchanted with their box design. They didn't think the green box appealed to women. And with more and more women smoking, Lucky Strike wanted a piece of their business. In fact, they even advertised Lucky Strikes as a dieting aid...   So when the war broke out, Lucky Strike redesigned their box. The company declared that "Lucky Strike Green has gone to war," claiming that their green dyes needed copper vital to the war effort (Lucky Strike's green dye was actually chromium-based). Now, Lucky Strikes would come in a patriotic white box. In fact, Lucky Strike's had redesigned the box because they thought women would prefer the white box and it was cheaper to make the undyed white boxes.  
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Nov 14, 2014 00:08
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Groda posted:Meanwhile Europeans still think rationing is on and keep buying chocolate cut with hazelnut byproducts. Don't you loving dare speak ill of Ragusa. I will goddamned cut you.
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Nov 14, 2014 00:35
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Bacarruda posted:That's just the tip of the very, very big iceberg of war-time advertisements. Madison Avenue had no qualms about using the war to sell poo poo. Or if they couldn't sell poo poo because the military was using it, they used that fact for branding. "Look at how patriotic we are, helping the war" or "our products are so great, they can kill Nazis!" The image of a lone GI stumbling blindly around in circles in what essentially is a big plastic bag wearing his vision constricting mask is loving hilarious. Know what is really terrible though? Those really old toy guns they used to make that were disturbingly well made to look like well, actual firearms of the era.
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Nov 14, 2014 00:44
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SeanBeansShako posted:The image of a lone GI stumbling blindly around in circles in what essentially is a big plastic bag wearing his vision constricting mask is loving hilarious. How the gently caress would you even use a gun in that?
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Nov 14, 2014 00:46
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Cyrano4747 posted:Don't you loving dare speak ill of Ragusa. I will goddamned cut you. Chocolate-filled anything is like playing Russian roulette over here with my nut allergy, thanks to Nutella.
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Nov 14, 2014 00:48
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wdarkk posted:How the gently caress would you even use a gun in that? Presumably he wouldn't have to. Because the other guy can't do anything either. Also because I'm quite confident nobody would have actually issued that to anyone actively serving.
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Nov 14, 2014 01:08
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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SeanBeansShako posted:The image of a lone GI stumbling blindly around in circles in what essentially is a big plastic bag wearing his vision constricting mask is loving hilarious. If a body condom sealed with Scotch tape won't save you from mustard gas, I don't know what will.
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Nov 14, 2014 01:20
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In all seriousness that body condom doesn't look a whole lot less practical than modern MOPP gear and it looks a lot more comfortable.
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Nov 14, 2014 01:22
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PittTheElder posted:I never got all the hype about European chocolate, just tasted the same to me. Maybe I never got the good stuff. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_chocolate#Classification quote:"Hershey process" milk chocolate is popular in North America. It was invented by Milton S. Hershey, founder of The Hershey Company, and can be produced more cheaply than other processes since it is less sensitive to the freshness of the milk. The process is a trade secret, but experts speculate that the milk is partially lipolyzed, producing butyric acid, which stabilizes the milk from further fermentation. This compound gives the product a particular sour, "tangy" taste, to which the American public has become accustomed, to the point that other manufacturers now simply add butyric acid to their milk chocolates.[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid quote:Butyric acid is present in, and is the main distinctive smell of, human vomit Saint Celestine posted:Didn't they make a Fallujah game? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtEEFLE0qAA
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Nov 14, 2014 01:29
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In Vietnam soldiers carried around their M16s in clear plastic bags to protect against moisture, and I've seen a training manual that teaches how to shoot with the gun still in the bag in an emergency. I can't imagine it would work very well to try to fight with your whole body in a garbage bag, though.
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Nov 14, 2014 01:33
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Chamale posted:In Vietnam soldiers carried around their M16s in clear plastic bags to protect against moisture, and I've seen a training manual that teaches how to shoot with the gun still in the bag in an emergency. I can't imagine it would work very well to try to fight with your whole body in a garbage bag, though. You wouldn't be expected to fight in it. The bag is discarded once you are out of the contaminated region. Presumably the enemy isn't stupid enough to attack an area that they just gassed.
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Nov 14, 2014 01:47
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Bacarruda posted:That's just the tip of the very, very big iceberg of war-time advertisements. Madison Avenue had no qualms about using the war to sell poo poo. Or if they couldn't sell poo poo because the military was using it, they used that fact for branding. "Look at how patriotic we are, helping the war" or "our products are so great, they can kill Nazis!" To be fair, I would buy the poo poo out of a product that advertised itself as being "so great, they can kill Nazis!"
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Nov 14, 2014 01:48
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:To be fair, I would buy the poo poo out of a product that advertised itself as being "so great, they can kill Nazis!" Not sure if these are hot dogs or war dildos. Either way, I'm sure you could kill a Nazi with one...
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Nov 14, 2014 01:54
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I assumed they were Mike and Ikes.
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Nov 14, 2014 01:58
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Bacarruda posted:In retrospect, these ads can seem really insensitive. Their war is usually cheery, bloodless, and morally unambiguous. But the ads have such an earnest "aw shucks" attitude, it's hard to not like them. I kinda like most of these, too - they may be advertising and they may be trying to make a buck and raise brand awareness, but the sense you get from these ads is that they don't feel like making a buck is incompatible with patriotic service - and while no doubt their achievements are wildly exaggerated, at least half of these products WERE actively helping out with the war effort, which takes the edge off the commercialism. The Scotch tape, Jeep, and penicillin companies in particular could probably have felt justifiably proud of their work. I find the "Ever Face A Firing Squad" one particularly interesting - if it weren't for the company logo, it'd be perfectly easy to believe that this was wartime government propaganda. I'm kinda torn on whether it's crass commercialism wrapped up in the most melodramatic of wartime sentiments, or if it was some copywriter writing down what he genuinely believed and wanted others to believe under the guise of wartime advertising.
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Nov 14, 2014 02:10
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Ensign Expendable posted:You wouldn't be expected to fight in it. The bag is discarded once you are out of the contaminated region. Presumably the enemy isn't stupid enough to attack an area that they just gassed. How effective was poison gas in actual combat? Like, I don't see it being particularly useful because of the vagaries of wind/weather and because you can't really use it on the attack without having to make all your troops put on equipment that makes fighting next to impossible. I know I'm generalising and there are dozens of different weaponised gases but they all have the same limitations AFAIK.
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Nov 14, 2014 02:16
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It really wasn't for the exact reasons you posted, gas was first used in 1915 and as you'll recall the war still dragged on for three years. It's much more effective as a terror weapon to be used in rear areas and civilian targets rather than on the front line. E:vvv d'oh I forgot nerve agents, what I said above applies to mustard gas, phosgene and others Raskolnikov38 fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Nov 14, 2014 |
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Nov 14, 2014 02:32
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Persistent nerve agents are really something else than good ol' blister or pulmonary gasses though. You can actively shape the battlefield with them for quite some time with channeling and area denial effects. Logistical tails haven't gotten smaller with time either, and those rear areas might actually contain very important long range assets like artillery, missiles, and air bases. Heavy chemical use on a mechanized battlefield is pretty frightening idea.
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Nov 14, 2014 02:39
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Chamale posted:In Vietnam soldiers carried around their M16s in clear plastic bags to protect against moisture, and I've seen a training manual that teaches how to shoot with the gun still in the bag in an emergency. I can't imagine it would work very well to try to fight with your whole body in a garbage bag, though. Problem: bullets keep poking holes in the bag. Solution: muzzle blast generates positive pressure, keep firing. RE: Mexican war treatment of soldiers, no idea whether it was worse than in Grant's memoir because I haven't read that. I got through a bit of The Rogue's March again, and there's a bunch of ethnic slurs including British ones (good call guys), wretched food (a soldier wrote that he'd never had food as bad in the British army), branding people for multiple counts of drunkenness (HD for habitual drunkard, and this in an army where the officers' main pastime was getting plastered), and being made to sit on a sawhorse with a weight tied to each leg and their arms tied behind the back for minor offenses. Then there's bucking and gagging, which I'm going to block quote: wtf, seriously posted:One of the favored modes of punishment, mentioned by Tomlinson, was bucking and gagging, in which a soldier was seated on the ground with his knees drawn up and his arms clasping them. His wrists were bound in front of his legs; a stick or a pole was slid under his bent knees and over his arms. Then a gag was stuffed into his mouth. The man unable to move or talk, the disciplining officer would order him left that way for hours of joint-searing agony. Then there's the cases of Sergeant James Bannon (Irish) and Private George Miller (US born) charged in the same court-martial for charges of drunkenness and mutinous conduct, accused of verbally threatening officers but not striking them. Miller was setenced to 50 lashes, a stiff fine, imprisonment until the war's end, and a dishonorable discharge. Bannon was put in front of a firing squad. Hilariously, the book mentions Bragg's battery of artillery as being particularly well drilled, and him being a particularly virulent nativist. Thus the two assassination attempts by his men later in the war. The US army of the Mexican-American War was weird. The most elite officers were the engineers, the artillery was the top branch, with the flying batteries being ahead of their time, very experienced cavalry and veteran officers who had forgotten how to handle big formations issuing orders and them working because of a huge number of Irish and German veterans getting the Americans to do the right thing. A lot of the officers were young and untested (in part because there wasn't that much room for careerists if I remember right), and they substituted physical abuse for leadership. There was also a contingent of academy men who were morally opposed to the war, and a serious vein of discontent among the catholics in the army. And that's how you get the US winning a war Wellington thought they would lose against an enemy whose best unit was comprised mainly of men who started the war in the US military!
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Nov 14, 2014 02:43
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xthetenth posted:There was also a contingent of academy men who were morally opposed to the war No, seriously, what. Why would you even join a military academy if you're against the entire idea of what a military is for  ?
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Nov 14, 2014 02:53
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Maybe it was like people who joined the army but didn't want to go to Iraq because it was stupid and wrong?
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Nov 14, 2014 02:57
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Don Gato posted:No, seriously, what. Why would you even join a military academy if you're against the entire idea of what a military is for THE war, not war in general. Like, they think war in general is OK but war against the Mexicans in particular for the reasons the government is pushing is bad. Be like a career officer in 2003 saying "Look, I'm OK with war to stop Nazi Germany or to hunt down terrorists or whatnot, but this whole invasion stinks of bullshit."
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Nov 14, 2014 02:59
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Don Gato posted:No, seriously, what. Why would you even join a military academy if you're against the entire idea of what a military is for
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Nov 14, 2014 02:59
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Ohhhh, that makes a lot more sense. I can see how people wouldn't want to invade a sovereign country for the stated reason of "gently caress it, they're there and  needs to reach from sea to shining sea, damnit. Plus something about the Thornton affair and not wanting to sell us land I guess I don't really care." My reading comprehension is a bit  apparently.
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Nov 14, 2014 03:06
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Don Gato posted:No, seriously, what. Why would you even join a military academy if you're against the entire idea of what a military is for Because it was a blatant landgrab on behalf of slavers and nationalists, and it was pretty split along political lines. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Nov 14, 2014 |
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Nov 14, 2014 03:12
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Tomn posted:I kinda like most of these, too - they may be advertising and they may be trying to make a buck and raise brand awareness, but the sense you get from these ads is that they don't feel like making a buck is incompatible with patriotic service - and while no doubt their achievements are wildly exaggerated, at least half of these products WERE actively helping out with the war effort, which takes the edge off the commercialism. The Scotch tape, Jeep, and penicillin companies in particular could probably have felt justifiably proud of their work. A great number of the ads are visually and thematically to wartime government propaganda The Stetson "keep it under your hat" is a lot like this "careless talk" government poster (which probably came from the US Army or the War Department).  A lot of the advertisements also feature messages encouraging people to "buy war bonds and stamps." I think there's a couple of reasons for these similarities. Firstly, a lot of the artists and copywriters working on Madison Avenue had worked/would work for for the War Department, the Office of War Information, or one of the dozens of other government propaganda services. There was an enormous mobilization of writers, artists, and filmmakers during the war. Between 1941 and 1945, lots of creative types had done some war-related work. So I'm not surprised that the messages are similar, because the people who made them were similar (and in some cases, the same). Secondly, those images worked and the people making them knew it. Advertisers of the era were beginning to conduct studies of how consumers reacted to packaging and advertising. During the war, the US government did the same thing. For example, government research showed that posters depicting GIs in peril got people's attention, hence why we see the Stetson ad and the "loose talk" poster. (although the Department of Treasury banned all casualty images on their war bond posters. Bond driver organizers evidently didn't think associating dead GIs with war bonds was a good idea).
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Nov 14, 2014 03:16
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HEY GAL posted:The supposed justification for the Mexican American war was some bullshit. A lot of Americans were opposed to it, such as Thoreau. Hey, they started it by attacking our boys, who just happened to be building a fort in territory that was totally not part of Mexico at all! I mean, we had secret documents signed by a discredited Mexican generalismo with a third party that said so.
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Nov 14, 2014 03:46
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sullat posted:Hey, they started it by attacking our boys, who just happened to be building a fort in territory that was totally not part of Mexico at all! I mean, we had secret documents signed by a discredited Mexican generalismo with a third party that said so. It amazes me that, despite the internet and the massive proliferation of information and so on that we have as an advantage over people from those times, the same poo poo goes on. It's almost counter-intuitive; you'd think it would be harder to get away with nowadays, yet in reality, it's easier.
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Nov 14, 2014 03:55
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Saint Celestine posted:Didn't they make a Fallujah game? There was going to be one, it was canned. From what I heard, it was slated to be a very realistic take on the battle and actual veterans who were in the battle of Fallujah were involved in the game. It would've been real interesting if nothing else. It's not like the Iraq war hadn't already embodied in all but name in all of the generic middle east settings that a slew of other video games had. You might as well be direct. It's not like anything they would've put out could possibly have been more disrespectful of the war than 50 Cent: Blood on the Sand.
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Nov 14, 2014 04:46
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Nenonen posted:(maybe even a joint ad by Adidas and Puma to reflect the sibling companies ending their 60 years of rivalry while working in the same little German village by playing a game of soccer in 2009) Adidas' ad agency actually did do some work on a Christmas Truce-themed footie ad back in… 2005 or so. Things were shaping up nicely top actually pitch the idea, until someone dug up a reel where another agency had already pitched the same ad. Being immense creative narcissists (and paid handsomely to come up with original ideas) they immediately chitchatted the idea and moved on to other concepts. I can't find the video that got produced and have no recollection of who worked on it, but it was actually damned good.
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Nov 14, 2014 04:48
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sullat posted:Hey, they started it by attacking our boys, who just happened to be building a fort in territory that was totally not part of Mexico at all! I mean, we had secret documents signed by a discredited Mexican generalismo with a third party that said so. "Spotty" Mr. Lincoln got his nickname for trying to nail down the spot upon which the incident supposedly occurred.
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Nov 14, 2014 05:06
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HEY GAL posted:You need 70% or more. My favorite is 90%, 95%, possibly with a touch of chili and orange oil.
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Nov 14, 2014 06:08
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Incidentally, the eye injury? Not what killed Henry II, according to Pare:
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Nov 14, 2014 06:59
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How old is that document? Like, was Pare present for Henry's autopsy, or was this retold to him from other sources.
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Nov 14, 2014 08:22
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Mr. Sunshine posted:How old is that document? Like, was Pare present for Henry's autopsy, or was this retold to him from other sources. This particular document is an English translation from the 1630s of one of his books, originally written in the 1540s.
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Nov 14, 2014 08:31
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Oh, and I found a pinterest link for all you 30YW fans out there: Landsknecht asses (Safe for work, despite the name.)
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Nov 14, 2014 09:15
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landsknechts predate the 30YW by ~ 100 years. Also English chocolate SUCKS.
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Nov 14, 2014 09:57
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This isn't really a military history question, but Hegel's post bought it up in my mind - why does older English use an "f" in place of "s" so often? It's clearly not because "s" hasn't been invented, seeing as you can see a number of places where it's used in Hegel's excerpt there, so what's the reasoning? Did "f" sound more like "s" or vice versa back then?
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Nov 14, 2014 12:04
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| # ? May 16, 2024 12:06 |
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Tomn posted:This isn't really a military history question, but Hegel's post bought it up in my mind - why does older English use an "f" in place of "s" so often? It's clearly not because "s" hasn't been invented, seeing as you can see a number of places where it's used in Hegel's excerpt there, so what's the reasoning? Did "f" sound more like "s" or vice versa back then? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s Short version: it's a different kind of S.
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Nov 14, 2014 12:21
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